VN Ren'Py Intertwined [v0.13.2] [Nyx]

[Jericho85]

on my first blind playthrough (before i knew everything is intertwined around Alexis), i rejected alexis, lol

I thought the story was supposed to be about Erynn, and hten i realized i missed shit ton of content by rejecting Alexis (and also not wanting anything to do with Cara and Nikki).

That blind playthrough legit is missing 30% of the game, lol

I still reject Alexis at the beginning of all my playthroughs lol.

I don't know if I'd say "everything is intertwined around Alexis". As a character, she really doesn't have much impact on the story at all. Sure there are a lot of sex scenes and a couple extra date scenes on her route but she barely appears at all otherwise. Everything else progresses with or without her.

That might change at some point in the future, but I don't really see her as a very important character right now. Nikki and Cara too for that matter. Probably because all three characters were initially meant to be side fucks only.

 

[anonnyscouse]

Kind of agree with LSC on this one judging by some things Nyx has said in prior progress updates. She's said stuff like "still debating which LIs will get content and who won't", then she's mentioned times where she's worked on a scene, didn't like it, redid the scene, still didn't like it, then ended up dropping the scene entirely.

So I get the impression she does a lot of "writing on the fly" with a smattering of ideas instead of relying on outlines, and she's run into hiccups related to that. Seems to me with a story with so many cross-relationships and paths, some outlining would make the whole thing easier to tackle without so many rewrites and scrapped scenes.

But the dev's style is the dev's style. If that's what works for her, then who am I to judge.

That's the main issue I have. She did have an outline, but it was thrown out of the window years ago. She's now got to write scenes for Alexis and Nikki who were not meant to be involved at this stage of the story and has had that problem for a while now (Alexis was meant to be a quick fuck and out of the story (other than potentially being a problem for Erynn and Layla routes) and Nikki was meant to be killed during that car scene ages ago). So it's inevitable that she is having to write scenes that were not in the outline she originally had, Alexis still being around impacts on Erynn and Layla storylines too, having Layla storyline impacted inevitably then impacts Elena and Valeria storylines. So yes this is all being written on the fly and the game is suffering for it, but it is what it is and there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[nitkonikic]

on my first blind playthrough (before i knew everything is intertwined around Alexis), i rejected alexis, lol

I thought the story was supposed to be about Erynn, and hten i realized i missed shit ton of content by rejecting Alexis (and also not wanting anything to do with Cara and Nikki).

That blind playthrough legit is missing 30% of the game, lol

Oh get on my level, 0 girls run.

I do it for almost every VN, because it's fun to see how much content story remains if you take girls out. Turns out...not that much. Think it was 2 updates ago or so, I loaded my no girls run, use CTRL to skip seen content...and finished less than 10s later.

Still not as fun as another game where I did no girls run. It describes what MC does, then usually has girl for each scene. Was funny as hell seeing MC narrate "I got out of bed", black screen, "I take a shower", black screen, "I went to work", black screen, "I took a lunch", black screen.

Now to be on topic here, I have no idea how Nyx plans to make Elena romance be anything but rushed. She's my favorite girl, but so far she has basically 0 content. Same can be said for Valerie. She was added recently, and unless VN keeps on going for 10 more updates, how does Nyx make MC care more about her than any girl that existed from the start?

Delayed updates never bothered me, plenty of fish in the sea, I'm more worried this one will never get finished because the scope is too large.

 

[Jericho85]

Oh get on my level, 0 girls run.

I do it for almost every VN, because it's fun to see how much content story remains if you take girls out. Turns out...not that much. Think it was 2 updates ago or so, I loaded my no girls run, use CTRL to skip seen content...and finished less than 10s later.

Still not as fun as another game where I did no girls run. It describes what MC does, then usually has girl for each scene. Was funny as hell seeing MC narrate "I got out of bed", black screen, "I take a shower", black screen, "I went to work", black screen, "I took a lunch", black screen.

Now to be on topic here, I have no idea how Nyx plans to make Elena romance be anything but rushed. She's my favorite girl, but so far she has basically 0 content. Same can be said for Valerie. She was added recently, and unless VN keeps on going for 10 more updates, how does Nyx make MC care more about her than any girl that existed from the start?

Delayed updates never bothered me, plenty of fish in the sea, I'm more worried this one will never get finished because the scope is too large.

Naw, Elena has been slowly set up as a landmine character and/or a potential threesome bang since the beginning. There's nothing rushed about Elena. And sure Val shows up later in the current version but there has been plenty of content with her in EP7~EP10, so she doesn't seem rushed to me at all either. Val has got a LOT of fans so I'd say plenty people care for Val content.

BTW, Val appears to be showing up as early as EP2 in the reworks. There are quite a few notable changes to dialogue and character appearances in the reworks, so who knows.. Maybe you'll get more Elena after all.

 

[Warscared]

Alexis was supposed to be a side fuck and Nikki was supposed to die

and Erynn a whore that you could save or take advantage off if you partnered up with Ethan but she removed the buddies with Ethan path !

 

[CrazyRabbit]

and Erynn a whore that you could save or take advantage off if you partnered up with Ethan but she removed the buddies with Ethan path !

Sometimes, when I read a Warscared post, I feel like Clarisse Starling peeking inside Hannibal's brain

 

[Jericho85]

Sometimes, when I read a Warscared post, I feel like Clarisse Starling peeking inside Hannibal's brain

It's probably more like Vincent D'Onofrio in The Cell

 

[CrazyRabbit]

It's probably more like Vincent D'Onofrio in The Cell

You right, much more kinky with children dying. Much more fitting

 

[AchedCroissant]

I want to congratulate Nyx for the pregnancy.

 

[gamingdevil800]

I want to congratulate Nyx for the pregnancy.

I still can't believe you and Nyx are having a surrogate baby together

 

[anonnyscouse]

Sometimes, when I read a Warscared post, I feel like Clarisse Starling peeking inside Hannibal's brain

He's not actually wrong about the Erynn corruption storyline though, Nyx did originally plan an option for MC to team up with Ethan against Erynn. Although I think there would have been an option to stop her becoming a whore if you didn't team up with Ethan, rather than saving her after she was already a whore.

 

[Nurikabe]

I wouldn't put her in the second group just yet, but i suspect she has a bit of a burnout.
This project used to get updates every 2 months, she improved her hardware and yet the pace slowed waaay down.
She just did a "reboot" and you read her development blog and she's already leaving stuff she ain't happy behind to change at a later date... that's bad planning.

It's not only that, the game became repetitive and very slow pacing wise... i'm waiting for this but i already have very little expectations of getting what "i" want.

Unfortunately this is starting to resemble those TV series that i once loved but now follow just out of stubbornness.

It could be bad planning. But it could also be the editing process of cutting material that isn't quite ready, or she wants in the story but can't quite get it to work yet. There are so many reasons material gets cut. Sometimes it is technical ability. A prop that doesn't quite fit.

The difference between experienced and inexperienced creators is often the ability to accept limitations.

 

[LSC82]

and Erynn a whore that you could save or take advantage off if you partnered up with Ethan but she removed the buddies with Ethan path !

He's not actually wrong about the Erynn corruption storyline though, Nyx did originally plan an option for MC to team up with Ethan against Erynn. Although I think there would have been an option to stop her becoming a whore if you didn't team up with Ethan, rather than saving her after she was already a whore.

It's not a path i would favor in my "main" playthrough, but it's certainly something daring to explore in alternative runs.
Wether because of attachment to the character or fear of the "WE ARE GETTING CUCKED(despite this being easily avoidable)" crowd, she went for vanilla.

I feel like this isn't the only example where personal attachment to the characters may have hurt the story, things like Layla taking being ditched for her sister without any issues felt weird and detached, Nyx can write better than this, i know, i've seen it... maybe comes from not wanting to see her characters looking like a crazy emotional mess that some players will make fun of.
For all the teasing that things will go balistic if these girls find out about each other, there's awful little fireworks.

I will also say that despite this game giving you the option to be a manwhore that flirts with every girl in town, it doesn't do it well.
When you are with a girl the game defaults to you caring deeply about this girl and not to "i want to get laid, and i will lie and deceive for it".
The sloooooow burns(and how patient our guy always is with it) aren't suited to a guy that just wants to sleep around.

It could be bad planning. But it could also be the editing process of cutting material that isn't quite ready, or she wants in the story but can't quite get it to work yet. There are so many reasons material gets cut. Sometimes it is technical ability. A prop that doesn't quite fit.

The difference between experienced and inexperienced creators is often the ability to accept limitations.

The fact that Nyx herself says, "i'm not happy with this scene, it's gonna be released in this state anyways and i will change it at later date" makes it sound like poor planning, maybe re-address this now, do the necessary nips and tucks before releasing?
Not to mention she already hinted that there's one specific occurance on the MC-Erynn-Alexis triangle that she means to change from past chapters, and she said that after she had just released a reboot version...

 

[Tremonia]

Wether because of attachment to the character or fear of the "WE ARE GETTING CUCKED(despite this being easily avoidable)" crowd, she went for vanilla.

Easy avoidable? The anti-NTR-brigade is weird. There is always someone who smells NTR somewhere and then complains about it. I've read the most ridiculous definitions of NTR and everyone insists their interpretation of NTR is the only correct definition. Nothing at all is avoidable. To be honest, I now consider the whole NTR topic to be a large-scale trolling that just wants to annoy the devs. Admittedly, I'll never understand how one can be so fragile that one can't stand virtual girls in an AVN if they don't date the MC and have another character as a partner instead. How gamma can one be?

Do not get me wrong. I have absolutely no problem with fetishes or kinks. If someone has the anti-NTR fetish, I'm fine with that as well as the NTR fetish. I just find it annoying that this particular bubble is bugging every damn AVN and making demands on the respective devs, which content absolutely shouldn't happen.

 

[Nurikabe]

The fact that Nyx herself says, "i'm not happy with this scene, it's gonna be released in this state anyways and i will change it at later date" makes it sound like poor planning, maybe re-address this now, do the necessary nips and tucks before releasing?
Not to mention she already hinted that there's one specific occurance on the MC-Erynn-Alexis triangle that she means to change from past chapters, and she said that after she had just released a reboot version...

There is a newer game that I follow. It is a much simpler and shorter story. Still, as time goes on it gets broader and has had to have the story and renders reevaluated several times. The writer had already written the whole story. But things change. Once released, the player base takes over the content and starts to demand certain things. The developers have answered by changing one of the main character's looks and adding (nearly doubling) the number of renders per scene.

Visual novel development would be a very different landscape if the game was developed and released entirely. Developers would not have the freedom to make significant changes. The visual novel world allows developers a larger degree of freedom. It comes with a lot of added cost. Having a fan base that does make demands. The desire to "perfect" scenes (or entirely remake portions or all of the game). Making changes means rewriting code which means players start from the beginning. Most importantly, it means that players are seeing draft versions that may never make it to the finished game. Or games that are created but never make it to a finished state.

Imagine this site if visual novels were released in finished form only. All the bitching and complaining would have nowhere to exist. Hahaha! As if! Instead, the whining would be redirected to what they do not like about a game and what they would've done differently.

 

[LSC82]

There is a newer game that I follow. It is a much simpler and shorter story. Still, as time goes on it gets broader and has had to have the story and renders reevaluated several times. The writer had already written the whole story. But things change. Once released, the player base takes over the content and starts to demand certain things. The developers have answered by changing one of the main character's looks and adding (nearly doubling) the number of renders per scene.

Visual novel development would be a very different landscape if the game was developed and released entirely. Developers would not have the freedom to make significant changes. The visual novel world allows developers a larger degree of freedom. It comes with a lot of added cost. Having a fan base that does make demands. The desire to "perfect" scenes (or entirely remake portions or all of the game). Making changes means rewriting code which means players start from the beginning. Most importantly, it means that players are seeing draft versions that may never make it to the finished game. Or games that are created but never make it to a finished state.

Imagine this site if visual novels were released in finished form only. All the bitching and complaining would have nowhere to exist. Hahaha! As if! Instead, the whining would be redirected to what they do not like about a game and what they would've done differently.

Sure, sometimes devs change their minds and want to rearrange things... this is very common and seldom a good idea, personally i consider doing a "special edition", "directors cut"... whatever you wanna call it... after concluding the story better, but that's just my personal opinion.
Nyx however takes this to the next level in which she releases the game in a state that she is already planning to reboot it.

A dev looking back at something they did years ago and saying "that kinda sucks, i need to change it" is more understandable than "it's coming out like that despite me hating it, get ready for the next reboot".

 

[Nurikabe]

Sure, sometimes devs change their minds and want to rearrange things... this is very common and seldom a good idea, personally i consider doing a "special edition", "directors cut"... whatever you wanna call it... after concluding the story better, but that's just my personal opinion.
Nyx however takes this to the next level in which she releases the game in a state that she is already planning to reboot it.

A dev looking back at something they did years ago and saying "that kinda sucks, i need to change it" is more understandable than "it's coming out like that despite me hating it, get ready for the next reboot".

I like the "Special Edition" or "Director's Cut" idea. It would certainly streamline the original release and get it done faster.

I don't think this has anything to do specifically with Nyx. I think it is an issue with how visual novels are released and accessed. There are only a handful of visual novel developers that release completed games. The rest release in episodes. Some of them prefer and allow complete early access, while others only tolerate it or are completely incapable of stopping it due to sites like these. That is where the problem lies. If we did not have a way to access these unfinished, unpolished works, then we would not really know what is going on behind the scenes. We would be unaware of how long it takes. Or how many changes it goes through. We would see the finished product and that would be it.

Speaking of my personal process here, when I am writing I may reach a point where the words don't flow or I just can't get a point across as I envision it. I write what I have and mark it for later review. I do not let it hang me up or stop the flow. When I am doing renders, I follow the same rule. I may not have the ability or even the assets I need at the time, so I make do with what I have and make a note to revisit it later. I do what I can to get a render as close to my vision as possible with the materials I have at the time. You would never know that if I did not tell you that is my process.

The same applies here with Nyx and other developers that discuss their process in developer logs. If she had not written, "I am not happy with what I made and will revisit it later," then we would never know. Creatively speaking, it is probably better for a developer to not share that information. But a sense of community begins to develop between creators and fans where we start to share inner pieces of ourselves, for better or worse. If I were giving advice to another creator, it would be to limit what is shared with the public regarding that type of internal conflict.

 

[camube]

The fact that Nyx herself says, "i'm not happy with this scene, it's gonna be released in this state anyways and i will change it at later date"

What was it again? Was it not happy with the hair or the clothes?

 

[MaliPizdek]

why we can't see that video of Erynn having sex?

 

[LSC82]

What was it again? Was it not happy with the hair or the clothes?

Spoilers:
There's gonna be a beach scene with Erynn, Iris and Alexis, this scene has 2 versions depending who you are dating, i don't know the specifics of what changes between them, but Nyx is unhappy with one of the versions... and announced plans of revisiting it.

I like the "Special Edition" or "Director's Cut" idea. It would certainly streamline the original release and get it done faster.

I don't think this has anything to do specifically with Nyx. I think it is an issue with how visual novels are released and accessed. There are only a handful of visual novel developers that release completed games. The rest release in episodes. Some of them prefer and allow complete early access, while others only tolerate it or are completely incapable of stopping it due to sites like these. That is where the problem lies. If we did not have a way to access these unfinished, unpolished works, then we would not really know what is going on behind the scenes. We would be unaware of how long it takes. Or how many changes it goes through. We would see the finished product and that would be it.

Speaking of my personal process here, when I am writing I may reach a point where the words don't flow or I just can't get a point across as I envision it. I write what I have and mark it for later review. I do not let it hang me up or stop the flow. When I am doing renders, I follow the same rule. I may not have the ability or even the assets I need at the time, so I make do with what I have and make a note to revisit it later. I do what I can to get a render as close to my vision as possible with the materials I have at the time. You would never know that if I did not tell you that is my process.

The same applies here with Nyx and other developers that discuss their process in developer logs. If she had not written, "I am not happy with what I made and will revisit it later," then we would never know. Creatively speaking, it is probably better for a developer to not share that information. But a sense of community begins to develop between creators and fans where we start to share inner pieces of ourselves, for better or worse. If I were giving advice to another creator, it would be to limit what is shared with the public regarding that type of internal conflict.

No doubt, how open she is about everything makes her planning failures obvious and open to criticism.
Not only what we've been discussing but how she changed the characters roles and everything else... being that open gives people(like me ) easy targets.
I still stand by what i said, if she's unhappy with the scene take some extra time and change what's needed now before release.


And also more people should consider going the "directors cut" direction.

Easy avoidable?

When i said "easily avoidable" i meant not siding with Ethan and helping Erynn would probably be a clear and obvious choice in game, i'm pretty sure it would be nearly impossible to fall into that path by accident.
The NTR panic crowd... that's another story, they are everywhere.

Someone just asked about seeing Erynn's sextape, maybe Nyx didn't feel like showing it(it's kinda degrading), but NTR fear can't be discounted (not that not showing images was enough for them...).