Is hentai misogynistic and do you want it to be misogynistic?

[Deleted member 5410619]

Because I don't know a way to have one without the other outside of the intrinsic benevolence of the person. Since not every person has this belief, and since acting against it often brings tangible benefits, responsibility quickly vanishes without accountability.

Power corrupts. That's what it means, really. Power comes with incentives to abuse it to gain more power. If you're a just, benevolent ruler that's cool, but a society that's structured around some people having more power than other with no oversight is gonna devolve into a shitshow. Most people won't be benevolent rulers, we know this much from history.

Peer pressure? Come on, we can't even peer pressure people into not littering in public parks and beaches.

Yes, but weakness has nothing to do with his plenty or lack of responsibility. A king usually doesn't act responsibly to every person he rules. AT BEST he has to placate just a handful of extremely powerful aristocrats, and then again, a smart king knows how to pit them against each other so they themselves undermine their ability to demand more of the king. Or just purge them regularly, apparently that also works. 20th century dictators can teach you a lesson how to be irresponsible and still successfully stay in power for life.

You make good points.

But to counter argue:
There are always people who go against the norm.
More of them these days due to a lack of peer pressure as you call it.
There is also the fact that crime isnt as common as most have something to lose.
For example: If you commit a murder you have to be afraid the cops might find you one day.
As stories about them catching the criminal 20 years later makes it clear they never give up.
Spending 20+ years in the fear you might get caught.
20+ years of you risk losing your house, family, friend, job, reputation, etc.
Likewise peer pressure into being a good husband led to people feeling to at very least pretend to be a good husband because you would be considered an outsider, A freak, A monster by the very people who's respect you need to get a job.
In today day and age your value to sociaty is heavly decided by your ability to make your bosses money.
At least in countries like the usa and japan.
There is a lot of peer pressure to work long hours and not taking time off.

Peer pressure works on most people.
But it works because it benifits people to comform.
It is why you are far more likely to get a job when you can speak english instead of like a gangster and dress like someone who has self respect instead of a gangster.

Being part of a group is an nature human desire.
And people constantly change there behavior to fit in.

The biggest difference is that in today day and age we have access to the internet.
Our local neighborhood opinion has become a lot less important.

Like the opinions of the nobles meaning more to a king then the opinion of peasents.
Once the benifit of being part of the group disapearse.
So does cooperation.

And that has been comfirmed by many different science experiments over the course of human history.
The vast majority of humanity are followers that will fall in line with anything as long it benifits them to do so.
There is a reason even dictator's want to keep order in there country.
Because without order they be the king shits of nothing.
Power is meaningless without subjects.
And history has shown.
Happy people are easier to rule.
After all.
People wherent fleeing to soviet russia.
They where fleeing from it.
And to this day every former soviet state is the biggest anti communist group on the planet.

Woman who are happy arent planning to posion you, cheat on you or divorce you.
A goverment that supresses its people has 3 times the workload then the one that makes them happy.

It isnt that you cannot be a tyrant.
It is that being a tyrant is a pain in the behind.

But as the saying goes.
Power corrupts.
Even the best rulers had to deal with the constant temptation of just abusing the power.
Just as many wifebeaters smile to vistors but the moment they where alone with the wife.....

It is why i mock the good old days by calling it the bad old days.
As people tent to ignore the bad that happend.

A sociaty works because people are willing to obey the rules.
Atleast most of them.
With punishment for the rulebreakers.
And there was a time where being a working dad was considered a good thing.
Worthy of praise.
Where being a loner made you a loser and outcast.
To be threated as scum.

That time however is long gone.
If it was ever more then public appearence to begin with.

Related:

 

[Meaning Less]

The main mistake in these threads is that people always keep assuming porn has any root in reality.

Porn is pure fantasy, it always goes to extremes and taboos, it doesn't reflect at all what a country or its people want in real life, anyone trying to make a reverse causality argument when looking at porn already lost.

Stop taking porn seriously, it is made to fap, nothing else.

Same with non-adult games, they are not real, just because someone is playing a violent game doesn't mean they are suppressing violent urges in real life... How hard is it to realize that porn is just porn?

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

How hard is it to realize that porn is just porn?

Given how often people want to outlaw it.
Very hard.

 

[Meaning Less]

Given how often people want to outlaw it.
Very hard.

Religious zealots more often than not.

They actually want to ban all of it because it is all "evil" to them, but mask behind the lowest common denominator 'violence' and that's how they get more traction.

What those people fail to understand is that the more they try to supress something the more people are going to fantasize about that.

Rape porn is spread in japan exactly because porn is censored there, that's also why japan turned into a mecha of porn, supress something and suddenly it becomes more extreme. That's how fantasies work.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I heard it was 52 man and 53 woman.

Apparently

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it was 101.6 men for 100 women ; other sources give the same numbers.

But

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, some countries have more men, so others more women. At first sight it's a half/half situation.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Women for the most part want to be conquered.
To feel valued, safe and protected.
To be taken care off.

Thinking like that is what got my father divorced. Twice.

He wanted to be the classical patriarch. He wanted to provide for his wife and family, but they had to know their place, and their place was being subordinate to his will. He didn't want an equal partner, he wanted a yes-man with a pussy. That mentality while enticing at first to younger women from more desperate backgrounds (he's got his shit together, he owns a house and has a good job, he's a good provider), ending up not being simpatico as his first two wives (including my mother) eventually felt stifled and suffocated by their second-class-citizen status in the relationship. It turns out they valued their independence and autonomy more than his ability to provide for them, and so they both eventually left.

It wasn't until he 'found Jesus' and a suitably demure and subserviently wife the third time around that he was able to remain in a committed marriage, because it required finding someone who was explicitly okay with being that second-class-citizen (as dictated by their shared religion) in the relationship.

Listening to them talk is like watching a live Animal Farm sketch gone wrong. They go on and on about how they're equal partners, but also how the final decision always rests with my father. It is 'all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others', but said with a straight face and without a hint of irony. No, they don't appreciate it when I point out their Orwellian double-think. But I'm also a heathen atheist who doesn't think evolution is a global conspiracy, so they don't take anything I say seriously anyways...

Unfortunately in the western world the idea of being responsible is considered an abomination.
It is a pity that we live in an age of abundance.
And yet we are morally bankrupt.

Since when has being responsible been an abomination? It is certainly fetishized by certain aspects of society, often by those who want to offload the shortcomings of society, institutions, and systemic problems onto the individual. Anyone who has ever told someone to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' with a straight face usually falls into this category. Because it's easier to ignore your own privilege and push the blame for problems onto individuals, rather than work to fix systemic inequality and the problems they cause.

Are we morally bankrupt? I think the 'we' is doing a lot of work there. I don't consider myself part of that 'we'. I'm not a politician campaigning against the LGBTQ+ community in order to shore up my re-election by cozying up to bigots in my base, only to sell out their wellbeing to corporate greed. I'm not petitioning school boards for communities I don't have children attending school in, to get them to ban books I haven't read, because they might talk about the experiences of minorities in a positive light. I'm not a cop living by the motto 'rules for thee, not for me', and then relying on the thin-blue-line to protect me from the repercussions of my abuse of power. I'm not a religious leader who abuses children, or otherwise protects those under me who do, all the while railing from the pulpit about god and morality.

There is plenty of 'moral bankruptcy' to go around, but it's not universal or evenly distributed.

 

[morphnet]

It just happened to be that rape hentai was really popular at the time and other suspicious tags like molesting, blackmail, etc...

Nope, if you used a general hentai site you would have had many options from Ahegao to Yaoi or Yuro depending on their genre list. The sites you went to might have featured rape more or you might have selected the clip based on the image more but there were just as many incest, school slice of life etc.

Remember you weren't the only one watching hentai in the 2000's

I like it so now I search for it, but back then I didn't search for it, seeing a woman topless was enough to get me hard.

Which is why I said...

or because you chose to open it based on cover image or description.

...and the fact that you were clicking on "women topless" but seemed to find "mostly" the "suspicious tags" is strange when there were just as many of the other ones out there. So i'm pretty sure some sort of searching or use of tags was involved.

I think later as internet was becoming more censored some of the suspicious tags got removed or are not as popular as back then.

It's the complete opposite. More uploaders, more sources, more websites, more domains means more content to more people than before, not to mention more people having access to the internet not just from pc's but from their phones now too.

However in hentai, their version of rape is usually a woman gets touched one time and she is already horny and doing ahegao faces so it is different in hentai.

You clearly have NOT watched much hentai if you are ok with saying "their version of rape usually" because if you had you would know there are differences between tentacle rape, school rape, medical / hospital rape, demon / monster rape etc.
in some it takes several tries to get her horny, in some she fights the feeling and even tries not to climax, in some she gets angry, in some she fights back and verbally abuses the rapist, in some she pretends to not like it, in some she kills them before getting horny, in some she is drugged or asleep and doesn't even know what is happening etc. etc.

You can't take the small amount you have watched and apply it to the whole, which is what you have been doing from the start, it completely invalidates your points, add to that ignoring cultural influences on hentai and all your points go out the window.

 

[zilkin]

Thinking like that is what got my father divorced. Twice.

He wanted to be the classical patriarch. He wanted to provide for his wife and family, but they had to know their place, and their place was being subordinate to his will.

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Just joking, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I think being a hard working man who can provide is definitely a desirable quality in a man, being a bit sexist is defo not but if I was a girl I would rather choose a hard working sexist man who provides than a poor broke male feminist who can't provide.

You can't take the small amount you have watched and apply it to the whole, which is what you have been doing from the start, it completely invalidates your points, add to that ignoring cultural influences on hentai and all your points go out the window.

It's not a small amount, hehehehe, but I am just talking about the most I have seen. Usually the woman enjoys it right away, even if she is saying "yamete". It is obvious from da blushin and da moans etc.... I don't like the brutal version where she doesn't enjoy it, I am very emphatic.

 

[morphnet]

I was a girl I would rather choose a hard working sexist man who provides than a poor broke male feminist who can't provide.

Because people have always been able to choose who they fall inlove with.....

It's not a small amount, hehehehe, but I am just talking about the most I have seen. Usually the woman enjoys it right away, even if she is saying "yamete". It is obvious from da blushin and da moans etc.... I don't like the brutal version where she doesn't enjoy it, I am very emphatic.

It is a small amount if you are still saying "usually" because there is a lot of hentai rape where the women doesn't enjoy it right away and sometimes doesn't enjoy it at all. There is also a lot of hentai that doesn't have rape, blackmail, mind control etc.

So my reply stands that...

You can't take the small amount you have watched and apply it to the whole, which is what you have been doing from the start, it completely invalidates your points, add to that ignoring cultural influences on hentai and all your points go out the window.

Also not sure what brutal has to do with anything, I didn't bring it up so not sure why you did?

 

[EvolutionKills]

Just joking, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I think being a hard working man who can provide is definitely a desirable quality in a man, being a bit sexist is defo not but if I was a girl I would rather choose a hard working sexist man who provides than a poor broke male feminist who can't provide.

My mother did the opposite, choosing to be a single mother of two children while doing her best to finish nursing school so that she could better provide for us without needing to rely on someone else to do so. We had to live with grandma for a bit, before moving out to apartments in some of the not so great parts of the city. But she persevered, found someone else who better complimented her personality (my stepdad), eventually had two more kids (including the only girl in the bunch, and my personal favorite) while getting us all out to the suburbs. She always did her best to provide for us, but without smothering us or holding it over our heads like we owed her for the privilege. She wasn't going to put up with The Handmaid's Tale bullshit, she fought for it, and I will always love her for that.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Thinking like that is what got my father divorced. Twice.

He wanted to be the classical patriarch. He wanted to provide for his wife and family, but they had to know their place, and their place was being subordinate to his will. He didn't want an equal partner, he wanted a yes-man with a pussy. That mentality

There is plenty of 'moral bankruptcy' to go around, but it's not universal or evenly distributed.

In some corners of the US society but not only, this is still a thing. I think this is wrong on so many levels.
Its a role model thinking that is hugely present in the US. It's the hypocrite that want to teach us of good morals, but at the same time watch porn, have affairs and are overall failures.
My impression is, that this is really accepted here. In parts of society even applauded because women are in some parts only fuck vessels. Meant to be used.

I can't imagine to live with a women that would only say yes. Must be hell.

 

[Death Panda]

I think a lot of westerners misunderstand hentai because they don't have a very good grasp of

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and how it is different in Japanese culture.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

Thinking like that is what got my father divorced. Twice.

He wanted to be the classical patriarch. He wanted to provide for his wife and family, but they had to know their place, and their place was being subordinate to his will. He didn't want an equal partner, he wanted a yes-man with a pussy. That mentality while enticing at first to younger women from more desperate backgrounds (he's got his shit together, he owns a house and has a good job, he's a good provider), ending up not being simpatico as his first two wives (including my mother) eventually felt stifled and suffocated by their second-class-citizen status in the relationship. It turns out they valued their independence and autonomy more than his ability to provide for them, and so they both eventually left.

It wasn't until he 'found Jesus' and a suitably demure and subserviently wife the third time around that he was able to remain in a committed marriage, because it required finding someone who was explicitly okay with being that second-class-citizen (as dictated by their shared religion) in the relationship.

Listening to them talk is like watching a live Animal Farm sketch gone wrong. They go on and on about how they're equal partners, but also how the final decision always rests with my father. It is 'all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others', but said with a straight face and without a hint of irony. No, they don't appreciate it when I point out their Orwellian double-think. But I'm also a heathen atheist who doesn't think evolution is a global conspiracy, so they don't take anything I say seriously anyways...

Sounds like your avarage zealot.
Hiding behind there faith.
Condolenses you had to experiance that.

Since when has being responsible been an abomination? It is certainly fetishized by certain aspects of society, often by those who want to offload the shortcomings of society, institutions, and systemic problems onto the individual. Anyone who has ever told someone to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' with a straight face usually falls into this category. Because it's easier to ignore your own privilege and push the blame for problems onto individuals, rather than work to fix systemic inequality and the problems they cause.

Are we morally bankrupt? I think the 'we' is doing a lot of work there. I don't consider myself part of that 'we'. I'm not a politician campaigning against the LGBTQ+ community in order to shore up my re-election by cozying up to bigots in my base, only to sell out their wellbeing to corporate greed. I'm not petitioning school boards for communities I don't have children attending school in, to get them to ban books I haven't read, because they might talk about the experiences of minorities in a positive light. I'm not a cop living by the motto 'rules for thee, not for me', and then relying on the thin-blue-line to protect me from the repercussions of my abuse of power. I'm not a religious leader who abuses children, or otherwise protects those under me who do, all the while railing from the pulpit about god and morality.

There is plenty of 'moral bankruptcy' to go around, but it's not universal or evenly distributed.

For all the "evil" in the world the sjw has done more then its fair share to add to it.
From getting people fired over a "racist" joke to having people hired based on there skin color instead of skillset.
Getting a rapist send to woman prison because he indentifieds as woman, confessing to brainwashing kids into communism and wanting to turn boys into girls.
Claiming blacks are the master race that the evil white somehow conquered and reduced into slavery(Not much of a master race if you get conquered)
Claiming the police is evil for follow the statistic that most gang members are black.
Ignore they had a black pressident for fuck sake.
Add to this they want to censor anything the consider offensive.
They hate musk facebook because they are no longer a protected class that can get away with breaking the rules.
Shoving diversity into movie's, games and books while at the same time retocatively making people gay, lesbian or black.
And too make matter worse.
Reduce characters to one thing.
The gay guy is just that.
Gay.
No personality beyond sexuality.
Claiming to want to end racism by focusing exclusivly on skin color.
Having woman fired from model job while screaming a woman shoud do whatever job she wants.
But wanting to be a model or house wife is a big no no.
Not to mention wanting to get rid of guns.
Ignoring the fact that criminals dont buy guns legaly, that there are gun laws but there simply not enforced and that as you said: The cops are corrupt.
So they want people to not be able to protect themselves.

For all the evil in the world.
Sjw only adds too it.
Now please for the sake of your sanity.
Stop looking at the world through the lens of racism, bigotry and sexism.
And look at the natural laws that have ruled our world before humanity even existed.
A lot of the world will make more sense if you accept we are animals.
Animals with the unique trait to ignore our instinct.

It's the hypocrite that want to teach us of good morals, but at the same time watch porn, have affairs and are overall failures.

Yeah that is the problem of any group that wants to "save" humanity.
They tent to not pratice what they preach.
One of the first things people learn as they grow up.
People are messed up and we are just trying to keep things running.

 

[EvolutionKills]

The following is an in-dpeth reply to Malaficus. It's being put in SPOILER brackets for the sake of visual brevity, and to preempt any mods doing so and leaving me with a fun notification about how my post was modified, with a passive-aggressive response behind the reason (e.g. post was 'overwrought'). But hey, if you want to see a dirty leftist atheist socialist respectfully disagree about politics with someone at length, there it is.

Spoiler

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[zilkin]

if you want to see a dirty leftist atheist socialist respectfully disagree about politics with someone at length, there it is.

This thread is about japanese misogynistic porn, not about the USA two party system debate, or debate between so called conservative vs liberal.
If you don't like watching japanese ladies get molested on a train while moaning "yamete" and explore the wider context of what that means and tells us about modern gender roles and sexuality then we can't be having a frank and open discussion.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

I think a lot of westerners misunderstand hentai because they don't have a very good grasp of

You must be registered to see the links

and how it is different in Japanese culture.

I agree. But also, this is a two-way street of misunderstanding. Shame cultures do not understand guilt cultures, and vice versa.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

I agree. But also, this is a two-way street of misunderstanding. Shame cultures do not understand guilt cultures, and vice versa.

This is something i find very interesting.
What are shame and guilt cultures?

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Well, basically they are pretty much what they are called (plus there are fear cultures, although fear seems to be not a good "glue" for a lasting culture). It's also worth noting that there are no pure guilt or shame cultures.

Nevertheless, the emotions of shame and guilt are distinct in that shame comes from without and guilt comes from within. Guilt is strictly individualistic, shame is a product of society. The distinction, therefore, is whether guilt or shame are the dominant social driver.

To give a crude example: you can't feel guilty for something you did not commit. Your sister can not make you guilty, but she can (esp. in shame cultures) bring shame unto your family and it can be such a great deal that honor killings happen (honor killings are also sometimes called shame killings). To emphasize: a woman can be killed by her own family for the sole "crime" of being raped. In guilt society, this is simply unfathomable. In shame society that happens.

On the other hand, in terms of shame, a crime that no one knows about does not exist. Sometimes that works. If you are feeling less guilt for the transgressions you committed and no shame because no one knows, you have less reasons to drink yourself to death out of guilt. If no one saw you masturbate, you did not sin. Obviously in guilt cultures the best party trick is to convince people that Jesus always watches, and therefore sees your every. Single. Fap

 

[Death Panda]

I agree. But also, this is a two-way street of misunderstanding. Shame cultures do not understand guilt cultures, and vice versa.

That is true to an extent, but I don't think anyone can fault the Japanese for not bending over backwards to adapt their culture to the rest of the world. I think that actually has a lot to do with why their porn is so much fun: they've experienced a lot of external cultural shame over the past century and it's led to them being a bit shame-fatigued. You can take their Emperor and you can shove capitalism down their throat until they literally work themselves to death, but you won't take their porn dammit.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

That is true to an extent, but I don't think anyone can fault the Japanese for not bending over backwards to adapt their culture to the rest of the world.

I don't think "bending to the rest of the world" is the wording I'd use in the context of face... because the rest of the world is with the Japanese on shame-guilt divide, yet they fail to produce porn. Tons of Arab hentai where?