Is it legal to create and sell 18+ 3D animation or VN's on Patreon from India?
- Thread starter fuck925
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- Aug 17, 2019
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What I could gather was don't identify that you're from India (I honestly wasn't even aware the porn was illegal there, came as a surprise to me.) and try not to sell to India. So, if you upload your game to steam, or make an account on Patreon, just say you're from somewhere else and try not to mention it to anyone else. If you want to be on the safe side, toss in a VPN with the country you chose while uploading updates and/or accessing Patreon. Just be aware of the risks if you choose to make a VN. There's always a chance you get caught and get locked up for a bit (Can't say I know how vigilant India's government is, though.),
- Jul 10, 2017
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So what are you selling on Patreon? Patreon is not a store front, it's a "support a creator" platform. It's all about how you present yourself on the platform. "X being a creator of visual novel", whatever. Not like you have to bombard your patreon page with lewd stuff. Patreon doesn't market you as a creator or advertise you. All traffic you want to your patreon page, you need to work for. How you market yourself, is up to you. If your game blow up and you start pull a lot of cash it's not like you have to include detailed information on the tax returns other that then source is from a patreon account.
- Jun 10, 2017
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[Note: I'm not a lawyer, just someone with some knowledge. This is not legal advice, but an informed opinion]
Under the Section 67 of the 2000's Information Technology Act, it's illegal to transmit and publish pornography through Internet. The said Section 67 rely on notions as blurry as "obscene material", but there's few doubt that even if the game used 2D graphics, it would be seen as it once the content start to be effectively sexual.
I don't know what they would consider as "being too much and needing investigation", but half of the adult games on Patreon lands between US$ 100 and US$ 1.000 each month. With a Rupee near to US$ 0.01, that would make you earn between 10.000 and 100.000 Rupees by month ; apparently between 1/3 and 3 times the median salary in India, and twice to twenty times the minimal wage.
Note that I don't say this to discourage you, but for you to have all the information when you'll decide if you do it or not.
To answer the question itself:
Under the Section 67 of the 2000's Information Technology Act, it's illegal to transmit and publish pornography through Internet. The said Section 67 rely on notions as blurry as "obscene material", but there's few doubt that even if the game used 2D graphics, it would be seen as it once the content start to be effectively sexual.
But be aware that if your game really blow up, and you start to earn too much, the authorities can decide to investigate the source of such money. And obviously, the less they can found, the more they'll want to know.
I don't know what they would consider as "being too much and needing investigation", but half of the adult games on Patreon lands between US$ 100 and US$ 1.000 each month. With a Rupee near to US$ 0.01, that would make you earn between 10.000 and 100.000 Rupees by month ; apparently between 1/3 and 3 times the median salary in India, and twice to twenty times the minimal wage.
Note that I don't say this to discourage you, but for you to have all the information when you'll decide if you do it or not.
- Jul 10, 2017
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I'm not sure how Patreon works, but I think they do report your income to whatever in your country, but you are responsible to pay your taxes from it yourself. Patreon isn't really known for "shady business" so I don't think it would raise much of an eyebrow being the source of the income. And how much you want to expose yourself on your patreon page is up to yourself.
- Jun 10, 2017
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But it is know to host porn content, what can lead to an investigation since it's illegal in the country.
Once again, I don't say that it's what will happen, but I think that he must take his decision knowing that, as low as it can possibly be, it's still something that can happen.
well many people have only fans in india and only fan works the same as patreon so i don't think, it should not be a big deal, also making porn in india is bailable section 292 isn't big deal, and yeah 1 thing just don't go for taboo i mean maybe taboo can put you in trouble,
but my experience says that making a game and having a patreon is not a big deal but to be totally safe just use vpn, have a private small bank to get your money in account so i don't think they would notice, i mean fucking scammers in india bring lot of money in their account they don't get into trouble, also don't mention your game is made in india, so people won't notice believe me, our government don't a damn unless it comes into their attention so chill
- Jul 10, 2017
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I think Patreon is obliged to report your revenues to your country's equivalent of IRS. Which make hide you behind a vpn or send your money to some offshore bank account not really a big solution at all. Just don't slap "making porn games" on your income statement, and should be fine right?
- Jul 10, 2017
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There is 1.38 BILLION people in India. I think they more interested in collect tax than to to invest much time into where everyone make the income unless something is screaming ILLEGAL.
No patreon does no such thing, it has to report its own earnings and any taxable earnings of its customers to the IRS (U.S.), thats it. And to the OP, your bank would not even be aware that the earnings are coming from patreon if you use something like Paypal/Payoneer to hold your patreon money, and from there send it to your bank account. Most freelancers in third world countries as I am aware use a service like Payoneer for online work all the time and that would be nothing out of the norm.
As far as taxation, I think India has a tax treaty with the U.S., so your US sourced income is exempt from U.S. tax (depending on the type of content, but you can fill out the W8-BEN to cite the article that fits your case), so your info won't even be reported to the IRS, other than that its all upto you how you essentially "cover it up" in India, but from my understanding, having an account on something like freelancer/fiverr and linking it to the payoneer might be enough to report to the bank as your source of income (if they even ask in the first place), they rarely try to dive in too deep. Unless you're making ABSOLUTE BANK.
- Jun 19, 2019
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Whilst I am somewhat familiar with UK company law from my Uni days, I don't know enough about India to 100% say this would be effective but, and I defer to others on this who may know more, could not OP create a legal corporation, and therefore a separate legal entity from himself, and register it in another country and therefore whilst he would be an Indian Director of a company, his company would be under the legal jurisdiction of the country it is registered in? Would that not get around the legality issue?
- Jul 10, 2017
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As long as creation of the work itself happen inside India, I doubt that would work.
The sections of India's penal code that covers this.
India's penal code section 292 part 1:
(a)sells, lets to hire, distributes, publicly exhibits or in any manner puts into circulation, or for purposes of sale, hire, distribution, public exhibition or circulation, makes, produces or has in his possession any obscene book, pamphlet, paper, drawing, painting, representation or figure or any other obscene object whatsoever, or
(b) imports, exports or conveys any obscene object for any of the purposes aforesaid, or knowing or having reason to believe that such object will be sold, let to hire, distributed or publicly exhibited or in any manner put into circulation, or
It's additional crime if the person receiving or participating is under the age of 20. It could be 20 or under.
Someone on here gave you the stupid advice of using a VPN and just not saying where you are from.
The problem is you still need to get paid. That means a bank will be involved and given the funds will most likely cross international lines. So they will look into the income source at some point. Depending on what India's banking laws are like that could be at a fairly small amount but if you are in say the US if you transfer $10,000 it will hit instantly. Different countries have different amounts. It can also be triggered by change in banking routines in some countries such as you start getting money into your account from a new source.
The real question is how much does the government care or enforce the laws. I'm sure they do to an extent because you wouldn't find most Indian Porn Films done outside the country if it wasn't.
India also doesn't have a statute of limitation on crime. Some crimes in the US they have to prosecute you with in so many years of the crime. India has no such rules. If they find out about it 20 years from now they can still prosecute you. I think you will find that covered under sections 467 and 473 of the criminal procedures.
You will always have to hope no one finds out.
From what I can gather India's international transfer laws are as low as 15000 rupees which is about $200 us. If they receive $700 and aren't family they have to report it on taxes.
It's pretty likely that India's government has a good idea who is making porn online or any other way.
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India's penal code section 292 part 1:
(a)sells, lets to hire, distributes, publicly exhibits or in any manner puts into circulation, or for purposes of sale, hire, distribution, public exhibition or circulation, makes, produces or has in his possession any obscene book, pamphlet, paper, drawing, painting, representation or figure or any other obscene object whatsoever, or
(b) imports, exports or conveys any obscene object for any of the purposes aforesaid, or knowing or having reason to believe that such object will be sold, let to hire, distributed or publicly exhibited or in any manner put into circulation, or
It's additional crime if the person receiving or participating is under the age of 20. It could be 20 or under.
Someone on here gave you the stupid advice of using a VPN and just not saying where you are from.
The problem is you still need to get paid. That means a bank will be involved and given the funds will most likely cross international lines. So they will look into the income source at some point. Depending on what India's banking laws are like that could be at a fairly small amount but if you are in say the US if you transfer $10,000 it will hit instantly. Different countries have different amounts. It can also be triggered by change in banking routines in some countries such as you start getting money into your account from a new source.
The real question is how much does the government care or enforce the laws. I'm sure they do to an extent because you wouldn't find most Indian Porn Films done outside the country if it wasn't.
India also doesn't have a statute of limitation on crime. Some crimes in the US they have to prosecute you with in so many years of the crime. India has no such rules. If they find out about it 20 years from now they can still prosecute you. I think you will find that covered under sections 467 and 473 of the criminal procedures.
You will always have to hope no one finds out.
From what I can gather India's international transfer laws are as low as 15000 rupees which is about $200 us. If they receive $700 and aren't family they have to report it on taxes.
It's pretty likely that India's government has a good idea who is making porn online or any other way.
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- Jan 21, 2022
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The summary is that you should not accept legal advice from anyone that is not a licensed attorney. Especially from those who are anonymous on a site which already is antipathetic towards legal topics such as copyright, IP, and more.
If you don't want to seek the advice of a licensed attorney - consider it illegal so that you don't attempt something you think *might* be legal only to find out you were wrong and end up with a criminal record. Ignorance of the law is not a legal defense.
Until you asked the question most people probably went by my last post.
Why simple I actually posted a link to India's legal code that is online in English.
Given the legal code is actually fairly strait forward and simple it should be fairly clear it is 100% illegal.
I then explained why you couldn't hide the funds and such coming in. Thus they would find out.
If someone from India was to create a corporation in another country. Then produce everything while outside of India.
They might be able to argue it being outside the Indian Jurisdiction. That however may not work. Because some countries argue their laws apply to their citizen were ever they are in the world.
Well technically it's an art while using and creating mature theme novels and stories and fictional characters involved, so it should be exempted from whatever link you have sent...... it is mentioned if it's in the interest of art right..... so all fictional story drawing 3d characters is a form of art and literature itself. It is not linked to any realistic world and by no mean it is meant to harm any community and is targeted to mature audience for their private viewing. And obviously if anyone is doing it via patreon, they are not hosting game on indian website. As long as it is not marketed in indian platform, I dont think there will be any problem.
As far as funds are concerned , obviously you have to pay taxes. So patreon is a platform to sell graphic art as simple as that ..whether it's child story or an adult story.
About corporation, one only need a single pc to sell the content, there is no company... no one is selling any novel within the country on indian website or marketing it on indian website. That way patreon should be banned first if govt finds out it contain mature theme contents. But it is open to serve all audience.
Do you think Game of thrones, adult series, games and movies available in indian platform via netlix or prime video that are made or sold in india is meant for public good?? its meant for entertainment purpose only just art....simple. As long as it doesnt target or harm any religion or community, and made to be viewed privately after taking consent of adult member of patreon.. which patreon does already... taking consent of members to view 18+ graphic VN and also it require credential to subscribe to any creator...so obviously members are 18+ whoever support creators...it won't be an issue.
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Western standards do not apply. What we get away with calling art in the US and Europe doesn't fly there.
India's laws make no distinction for art.
Doesn't matter if it is a photo, drawn, computer generated or purely literature.
The general way it is determined to be porn is what the intent of it is for.
Bandit Queen is an example of something that was allowed. It is based on a true story were a woman is raped joins a criminal gang to seek vengeance. In short the adult content is incidental of the story. It isn't the main purpose of the story.
It still went through a lot to be allowed. Including court cases.
India's laws have gotten stronger not weaker on the aspect over time.
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India uses a community standards test Opposed to the test we use in the US.
This test applied in India. The Community Standards Test says that the art or any gesture or content is obscene only if the dominant theme taken as a whole is opposed to contemporary community standards.
That test is determined by the judge or magistrate. So the outcome can differ. However, there is nothing stopping it being raised to a higher court if the prosecutor feels the judged was wrong.
So in short if the judge thinks the overall objective of the work is to project or convey obscenity you are going down for it.
50 shades of grey doesn't pass in India. While crappy as it is written by novel standards it is miles above most if not every current porn game in existence.
Does that make it clear enough?
What if some indian create the VN and someone else from other country publish it from their account in patreon? that will be legal...money indian can get from their friend's bank account as fund and can pay tax on that ..simple.