Is there a reason the darkest themes are made on the RPGM engine?

[nulnil]

What qualifies a game as dark? If a game is darker than another, does it 'weigh more'?

Take Fear & Hunger for example. It's probably one of the darkest games out there, but it only counts as one game.

 

[Nadekai]

What qualifies a game as dark? If a game is darker than another, does it 'weigh more'?

Take Fear & Hunger for example. It's probably one of the darkest games out there, but it only counts as one game.

That's pretty subjective. So 1 game is 1 game, not matter how dark.

 

[SurvivalMyths]

I am curious why that is relevant? Is it because dark games are not as popular so people who make dark games don't want to invest a lot of resources and time into a niche audience?

When something is easily accessible, it's only natural you'll see it be put to use more often. To be fair, it's the best guess I could possibly give, going by the fact that a lot of different people view different topics / genres as a lot darker than the other. If I had to put in my two cents, I would probably assume that culture plays a big part of it as well, at least when it comes down to figuring out where that content comes from in the first place.

 

[JawohlMeme]

People have pointed out here a difference is that a lot of RPGM games are Japanese, maybe that plays some part, there are a lot of weird NTR Japanese visual novels and stuff. But I think that's actually not the reason, Japanese devs do make some of the most dark content but they also make some of the best as well, look at masterpiece VNs like Devil on a G String or Grisaia. I think the real difference is that RPGM has open world exploration, combat, etc and is basically medieval themed by default (I know some people make games set in the present on RPGM but the default assets are for a medieval, combat type of story). With the gameplay of going through dungeons, medieval times, etc it makes logical sense why a dev who wants a game like, for instance, the protagonist is female and gets raped all the time would use RPGM. One other distinction I would add, at least in my anecdotal experience, is that most of THESE types of RPGM games that we are talking about specifically, are games that use an anime art style. There is a fair amount of games on RPGM that just look like the standard Ren'py game and I have no clue why the devs of those games didn't just use Ren'py, because using RPGM for games without combat is pointless and annoying.

 

[Count Morado]

I ran the numbers.

Engine	Made	"Dark"
Total	15474	6229 (40.25%)
RPGM	2783	1692 (60.80%)
Ren'Py	5800	2065 (35.60%)
Unity	2636	751 (28.49%)

Turns out RPGmaker games are significantly more likely to be dark using whatever criteria you were using.

The numbers you are using and your conclusion do not address the hypothesis set forth by OP:

I noticed that the darkest stories with themes such as hardcore NTR, slavery, rape, torture, gore etc. are almost exclusively made on the RPGM engine. Why is that?​

OP's hypothesis is stated as RPGM is almost exclusively the platform used for darker themes. It is not whether RPGM games are almost exclusively darker themed.

Nadeki used the data correctly to make a conclusion on the hypothesis set forth by OP. The data shows that OP's hypothesis is not valid.

Your data is not relevant for the hypothesis set forth by OP. That said - your data appears not to support the latter hypothesis that was not presented by OP. 61% does not meet the "almost exclusively" threshold for prevalence. If it were 90% then one could make a better case for that threshold - but less than two-thirds does not.

So I am not crazy after all!

You may not be crazy - or you may be. This doesn't prove or disprove that.

 

[Death Panda]

There is no data on the darkest stories. There is only data on dark tags which are necessary, but not sufficient, for the darkest stories. My point was not that 60% of RPGmaker have dark tags, but instead that they are significantly more likely to have dark tags than games made with other engines.

Remember: dark tags are necessary, but not sufficient for the darkest stories.

 

[Count Morado]

I think you are misunderstanding something. There is no data on games which have the darkest stories. There is data on dark tags, which are necessary but not sufficient for games which have the darkest stories.

Also this doesn't make sense. No one is saying that RPGmaker games are almost exclusively the darkest stories, that would just be absurd.

I understand the original claim presented and the use of tags to create the datasets both you and Nadeki used to calculate your observations.

Also, I agree that no one said that RPGM games are almost exclusively the darkest stories. However, that is what your results was reporting upon - your data is not the correct to use in response to the original claim made by the OP. The claim which Nadeki was addressing and it was Nadeki's post you were attempting to counter.

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As of this writing, you have edited your post with a new response:

There is no data on the darkest stories. There is only data on dark tags which are necessary, but not sufficient, for the darkest stories. My point was not that 60% of RPGmaker have dark tags, but instead that they are significantly more likely to have dark tags than games made with other engines.

Remember: dark tags are necessary, but not sufficient for the darkest stories.

Here I agree with you - there is no data on the "darkest stories." Again this goes to my response higher up that it is a subjective observation on what constitutes "darkest."

However, your response here - and your original response to Nadeki - is changing the terms of the original claim. The original claim was not that RPGM games are significantly more likely to have dark tags than games made with other engines. You are changing the claim to match your data.

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[Death Panda]

You are changing the claim to match your data.

I am changing nothing. My claim was RPGmaker games are significantly more likely to be dark using whatever criteria Nakadai was using. I will further assert that that supports OP's observation.

Finally, again I agree that the tags are insufficient - but it is the parameter you agreed upon when you attempted to contradict Nadeki.

I agreed to no such thing. In fact, I pointed that out and Nadeki agreed that they were insufficient in a post that you liked, so I think it's safe to say that we are all agreed on their insufficiency.

 

[Count Morado]

I am changing nothing. My claim was RPGmaker games are significantly more likely to be dark using whatever criteria Nakadai was using. I will further assert that that supports OP's observation.

You clearly change the terms in your response - "Turns out" is a clear indication that you are denying Nadeki's response to OP. At the same time, you specifically reword the original claim, replacing your own claim as if it was the original. Which it is not.


Your assertion that RPGMs having 61% of its games with tags of "dark" content supports OPs claim that the darkest stories are almost exclusively made on the RPGM engine does not pass muster. Not only is your assertion not measuring what is being claimed - the ratio does not come close to support the "almost exclusively" threshold within the claim.

You could also assert that grass on earth is red and the sky is green at midday - but the scientific data available would not support that assertion.

The same is here. The available data does not support your assertion.

I agreed to no such thing. In fact, I pointed that out and Nadeki agreed that they were insufficient in a post that you liked, so I think it's safe to say that we are all agreed on their insufficiency.

You implicitly agreed by using the data numbers collected by Nadeki to make your own claim. You doubled down on your use of the numbers when Nadeki called you on lack of understanding the claim. You only pointed out the insufficiency when you were called on your own claim by me.

 

[Rintal]

A search in the "latest updates" section for the "rape" tag showed 37 full pages (30 games each) for the RPGM engine and 20 full pages for the RenPy engine.
In general, I also noticed that RPGM is very popular among the authors of games with a female protagonist, where this protagonist is subjected to severe corruption.

 

[Death Panda]

You implicitly agreed by using the data numbers collected by Nadeki to make your own claim. You doubled down on your use of the numbers when Nadeki called you on lack of understanding the claim. You only pointed out the insufficiency when you were called on your own claim by me.

Are you seriously arguing that over 40% of the games on this site have "the darkest stories"?

I've never said that, but you do you.

There. In black and white.

Edit: I look forward to your attempt to gish gallop your way out of this one.

 

[Count Morado]

There. In black and white.

Edit: I look forward to your attempt to gish gallop your way out of this one.

I have nothing to backtrack. You just supported my quote that you included.

You doubling down on your claim that counters Nadeki initial response. He states he never made the argument you state he has - and ends with simply "you do you." You know people say that in a heated discussion because they are tired with the obstinance of the other person involved -- don't you? It's not an agreement to your statement - it's an objection within this context.

That wasn't an empowerment "you do you, boo" - it was exactly the opposite. And so yes, you doubled down.

You didn't claim insufficiency until after I pointed out the errors. Insufficiency I have already acknowledged that I agree with - but it's the only data we have at our disposal to validate claims. Something I have mentioned in other threads on similar topics when people make outlandish claims and we only have tag data to draw conclusions.

 

[Death Panda]

You didn't claim insufficiency

The fuck I didn't! "Are you seriously arguing that over 40% of the games on this site have "the darkest stories"?" is clearly an expression of incredulity at and a direct challenge to the idea that any criteria that includes 40% of the game on this site is sufficient for "the darkest stories."

 

[Count Morado]

The fuck I didn't! "Are you seriously arguing that over 40% of the games on this site have "the darkest stories"?" is clearly an expression of incredulity at and a direct challenge to the idea that any criteria that includes 40% of the game on this site is sufficient for "the darkest stories."

Now I see the wisdom of Nadekai. You do you.

 

[Death Panda]

Now I see the wisdom of @Nadekai. You do you.

You stop doing you. Trying to "scientifically disprove" people using data you know is bullshit is obnoxious as hell. That goes double for Nadekai.

 

[Nadekai]

Now I see the wisdom of Nadekai. You do you.

Hey, thanks for trying, but as you can see, trying to have a proper argument with this person is absolute waste of time, thank you for you time!

 

[nulnil]

That's pretty subjective. So 1 game is 1 game, not matter how dark.

Actually, OP asked about the darkest stories. They mentioned "hardcore NTR, slavery, rape, torture, gore", not just any version of it.

Games that have slavery for example, don't always depict it darkly, as bad as that sounds. An example of this is the long name game, which has a rather goofy tone despite featuring slavery. There's more examples of this out there, but it just shows that searching for dark games based on the site's current tagging system isn't a reliable method.

I'm afraid OP's question has to be answered subjectively. What are the darkest games YOU have seen?

 

[Nadekai]

Actually, OP asked about the darkest stories. They mentioned "hardcore NTR, slavery, rape, torture, gore", not just any version of it.

Games that have slavery for example, don't always depict it darkly, as bad as that sounds. An example of this is the long name game, which has a rather goofy tone despite featuring slavery. There's more examples of this out there, but it just shows that searching for dark games based on the site's current tagging system isn't a reliable method.

I'm afraid OP's question has to be answered subjectively. What are the darkest games YOU have seen?

Indeed, if he told us precisely which tags he find "Dark", we would've conducted more precise research.
For myself, Euphoria, Raptus and Revenge game.