Is there something more with NTR than it meets the eye?

[JoeTheMC84]

That's one thing I don't understand. "Your wife". "You are a beta bitch".

I don't project myself into the MC or any porn I watch. I watch it I don't live it.

NTR as F95 Tag convention stand is not just MC crying in the corner or wanking off while watching his loved one get fucked by a better man. It has evolved into Any women love interest or not of what can be generally perceived as the Main Character having sex with another man.

Woman having sex with her non-mc husband: NTR
Mother of MC having sex with MC's Father: NTR

The anti-NTR crowd here are so stuck in their notion that I AM THE MAIN CHARACTER they simply reject the notion not all women in the game is theirs.

You are not the main character, your are the player, selecting choice for the main character.


I personnally hate how F95 Tag and crowd have made any stakes, any moment where non-mc male character is close to any women be defined as NTR.

I love the idea of having options. If I make good choice MC can get the girl. But if I fuck up, or if MC fuck around the women won't simply be fleshlight freely available. They will go elsewhere and someone else will have fun.

One good thing Is I have learned to appreciate Female Protagonist game. Somehow just because the POV is reverse and you control the women's decision (even though in most NTR cases the player also make decision that can cause the MC's wife to cheat but that's a big no-no for that crowd) You can have her be a slutty and unfaithful as you wish.

In the end I think Anti-NTR crowd main issue is their perspective. Stop projecting yourself in the MC and you can learn to enjoy just good sex scene.

If I just wanted sex scenes, I'd watch porn. It is objectively, as a media, better for isolated sex scenes. As isolated animated scenes would be. I'm here to play games with compelling stories, with interesting characters. Yes, I like to get invested in the media I consume. I care about the characters in the movies I watch, the books I read, the TV shows I enjoy, and *gasp* the games I play. AVN aren't "porn" any more than erotic or romantic literature is. It is a visual novel made for adults. If all you want is disconnected sex scenes, that's fine, but then I'd say, why are you here playing games when pornhub is a thing? Most people creating a story want their fans to get invested in the characters, if you don't connect with the character and stories then either the media you consume is just shitty, or you may have some other... I'll drop that line of argument. I've cried watching movies, and reading books, and playing some AVNs. I've gotten angry doing those same things. And I've gotten sexual excited by all those mediums as well. If these developers who keep forcing NTR, swinging, and voyeurism into harem and incest games are just trying to make good sex scenes then tell THEM to do their fucking jobs and research and then pick the right medium. Just make a graphic novel, a kinetic novel, just the sex scenes (aka porn), and stop making games with namable MCs. Don't make a game telling people to name the main character, get invested in his life and story, and make choices for him to get the outcome you want... and then force stuff on people without warning.

Even accepting the strawman argument that harem fans "just wanting to turn the girls into fleshlights for MC," the NTR counter argument is turning her into a fleshlight for every other man *but* the MC. I'd rather a loyal fleshlight that is the MCs than a fleshlight that gets passed around by the whole town. MC picks the wrong dress, female character bangs other guys. Game rewards player for doing what it set up and banging more than one girl, well now the girl he spends hours grinding points for will now bang the first other guys she sees. NTR fundamentally turns every girl into the town bicycle unless the MC does everything exactly right. It is not realistic; it's not character consistent. This has nothing to do with consequences either, a girl can dumb the MC for cheating on her if the story is set up as a single love interest game and not a harem. But that has nothing to do with forcing NTR and voyeurism. Do you watch a girl who breaks up with you bang other guys? Did you watch your sister on her wedding night? Did you watch your mom and dad bang?

NTR, swinging, and voyeurism are also the only fetishes treated differently than any other fetish. No developer is unsure about adding scat, vore, necrophilia, incest, pregnancy, sissification, anal, or any other fetish. They know where they stand on those. But if the crowd wants NTR, or if the "story demands it" they will add it. As if the story is a living thing and not under the full control of the creator. Harem, very rarely, is in that category where the developer says they aren't sure, but that is almost always harem baiting, and the developer knows where he stands, he just doesn't want to commit and drive away the harem fans he can milk. NTR is also one of the few fetishes where the proponents will piss and moan about the "actual meaning, technically not, being blah blah," but then ignore that in the original Japanese meaning it includes family and friends and not just girlfriend/wife. Based on the Japanese meaning, yes, a childhood friend, or a little sister would count. But we go by the site tags here because this isn't a Japanese site.

Spoiler: In case you don't know what the F95 tag says or means:

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NTR, swinging, and voyeurism are also some of the only fetishes developers lie about not adding to their game, or about them being avoidable. Dragonspire, Forgotten Paradise, College Bound, Roving to Sussex, Jason, Hero Party Must Fall, Genex Love, The Builder, World Crossing Acadamy, and those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. They all (to varying degrees) added in NTR (or lied about it being avoidable), sharing, swinging, voyeurism, or other things like those. Some developers have used technicalities to avoid catching hell for it, and some games change things to keep their word after being called out for it like Knightly Passions, though I haven't played in several updates so I can't say if the changes are sufficient. Developers will occasionally lie about having incest or harem or lie by omission about those being there, but that is to draw in downloads. If that fact that people say "no NTR," to get downloads, and then say "maybe harem and incest" to also get downloads doesn't mean anything then oh well. To me it means they are very different in intent and application.

Players don't know the future of the story, so I load up a game that has the incest tag, I will begin the game with certain assumptions, that the mom and sisters will be love interests among them. If a developer is so dumb that he can't imagine players assuming that and then he shows the mom with another man, yeah player get upset. If she is (or will be) a love interest then yes, it is NTR, it doesn't matter who the other guys are. If she isn't, then it is the developers own fault for not being smart enough to make that clear. If you were playing a game with "hot sex scenes" for five updates and then suddenly the developer added and unavoidable scene where your favorite girl gets murdered and her corpse gets raped and then the MC lets the guy who killed her fuck him in the ass and then take a dump in his mouth and afterwards the MC says, "Man that was fucking hot, I never knew gay sex, necrophilia, and scat were so hot." Would you be happy? Would that be a "hot sex scene" for you? NO??!! INSECURE SIMP BETA GROW UP!!!! Because I guarantee, to some people, that would be the hottest scene they have ever seen in a game because no game I've ever heard of has done it, but there is someone out there dreaming of such a scene.

NOTE: When I use Voyeurism above, I mean watching other people fuck, not peeping on girl changing or shit like that.

This has been another JoeTheMC essay, I hope everyone enjoyed...

 

[JoeTheMC84]

View attachment 2304161 View attachment 2304162

Stats from nhentai, one of the more popular sites.
Minority indeed lmao.

I think you are confused my dude, unless it was intentional of course, what you describe is more like harem fans than ntr fans.
Ntr fans actually behave much more like adults.

Disney keeps putting out shitty Star Wars and Marvel stuff, quantity doesn't mean it is popular or the majority of viewers. Without knowing the aggregate of data that chart means nothing. It is just a word with a number beside it. A few fans of NTR could pump out thousands of NTR stories. Just look at some of the other things on that very list. Hair buns. I mean, do you really think that there are 2k+ individual people who made content that needed that tag? Or do you think that maybe it's a smaller number of people make multiple content themselves, or even linked content like sequels and such? 27k multi-work stories. How many of the 24K NTR stories are part of one story across multiple works? Do you think there are 15K muscle or 2k nipple fuck stories that are standalone and written by different authors?

 

[chainedpanda]

View attachment 2304161 View attachment 2304162

Stats from nhentai, one of the more popular sites.
Minority indeed lmao.

I think you are confused my dude, unless it was intentional of course, what you describe is more like harem fans than ntr fans.
Ntr fans actually behave much more like adults.

Bad example.

Hentai and Manga are two sides of the same coin. If NTR was incredibly popular in hentai, why isn't it in manga or anime? In fact, the few that do have NTR elements are generally used as backstories to propagate and explain why the protagonist is so powerful, seeking revenge, or building some sort of harem.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

If NTR was incredibly popular in hentai, why isn't it in manga or anime?

Maybe because most of those are about non-sexual stuff, but who says it isn't?
How much manga you say you've read so far?
Ntr isn't really my interest so i can't tell even nearly accurately, but i've been reading a lot of manga lately and definitely noticed some ntr-focused works.

 

[AnonymousUnique123]

Bad example.

Hentai and Manga are two sides of the same coin. If NTR was incredibly popular in hentai, why isn't it in manga or anime?

Because they're obviously different? sheesh. Even I as an NTR fan don't want NTR content or at least the MC getting NTR'd when I'm watching anime because that's not why I came to watch it. In Anime you connect with the protagonist a lot more and do some cool shit whereas in Hentai I usually give a fuck more about finding more extreme scenes because they're generally hotter and I came to fap not to feel cool and shit(Obviously these things aren't mutually exclusive but generally if you want some cool badass shit happening Anime/Manga is a fuck ton better whereas if you want to get to more sexual highs then Porn is also a fuck ton better.)

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

"ntr" - I hate that term itself, I play mostly western-style games, i have no interest in anime, I have no interest in classifying things with japanese words in western games with western characters, to me it's simply a relic of older AVNs; having yet to mature from their otaku roots.

NTR is a deeply visceral fetish in the responses it can garner. It is more in line with Necrophilia, Rape, Sissification, or Bestiality than say anal, a harem, or even incest. Some things are not *just* a fetish, they can trigger real responses when seen even in media. This is true in movies and other media as well. To add to the issue with NTR as a type of content is that it is also the only one people get called names for *not* liking. I've never seen any kink shaming like that from pro-NTR fans shaming people who dislike NTR. A Rape victim might have a huge problem seeing a rape scene in a movie like The Accused. Would that rape victim be insulted? No, people would say, "Oh, I didn't think about that, sorry, this media isn't for you then."

No one gets called, weak, a closet cuck, pathetic, or accused of being "(bat shit insane) about their fake adult game waifus," (to quote someone above me), when they say they'd rather not see a love interest in a game get murdered and her corpse raped, have someone shit on her face and force her to eat it, or see her get fucked randomly by a dog. But say. "I'd rather not see a character in this game get dicked down by some other guy," and the names start flying. Hell, even just ask, "This game got NTR, or NTR avoidable," and you get insulted and called an Anit-NTR brigade, and worse. Which just makes the people who were critical (often just asking about it and not even critical) fire back as well. The pattern plays out all the time, but it usally gets nuked so you might not always see it after the fact.........

I think your characterization is entirely accurate for the overall F95 crowd, and entirely inaccurate for the broader population(at least in the US). This is the world seen through the lense of the 'ntr-hater' for lack of a better term. Swinging, sharing, group sex, wifes-swapping; going by major porn tube site stats are VERY popular genres, nothing similar to the smaller niche extreme gore or scat porn. If someone did hold the views like wifesharing being equivalent to scat porn, then I can understand their revulsion at these games, but that's a warped view of reality.

The reason posts like "iS nTR aVoIdAbLe" are mocked is those posters aren't even self-aware enough to realize the existing arrogant mindset their post reflects. Personally, I hate incest as a theme, I'm not grossed out by it, it just does absolutely nothing for me, particularly the milf variety so pervasive on this site. Yet, I have to soldier on, since it's nigh impossible to find games with other desired tags and no incest so I try and ignore. But if I posted on every game thread where a mother character plays a part: "is incest avoidable???", I'd be derided - justifiably so. Who am I to be the arbiter of what others like? Because that's really what that post is saying - no post is neccesary if one simply decides not to play the game; they need to make others aware of their displeasure, particularly the dev.

That's one thing I don't understand. "Your wife". "You are a beta bitch".

I don't project myself into the MC or any porn I watch. I watch it I don't live it.

NTR as F95 Tag convention stand is not just MC crying in the corner or wanking off while watching his loved one get fucked by a better man. It has evolved into Any women love interest or not of what can be generally perceived as the Main Character having sex with another man.

Woman having sex with her non-mc husband: NTR
Mother of MC having sex with MC's Father: NTR

The anti-NTR crowd here are so stuck in their notion that I AM THE MAIN CHARACTER they simply reject the notion not all women in the game is theirs.

You are not the main character, your are the player, selecting choice for the main character.


I personnally hate how F95 Tag and crowd have made any stakes, any moment where non-mc male character is close to any women be defined as NTR.

I love the idea of having options. If I make good choice MC can get the girl. But if I fuck up, or if MC fuck around the women won't simply be fleshlight freely available. They will go elsewhere and someone else will have fun.

One good thing Is I have learned to appreciate Female Protagonist game. Somehow just because the POV is reverse and you control the women's decision (even though in most NTR cases the player also make decision that can cause the MC's wife to cheat but that's a big no-no for that crowd) You can have her be a slutty and unfaithful as you wish.

In the end I think Anti-NTR crowd main issue is their perspective. Stop projecting yourself in the MC and you can learn to enjoy just good sex scene.

This is my main frustration. I'm obviously on the "pro-ntr" side, but again, I hate that term because I hate games where you have to watch 10 homeless guys or 12 black bodybuilders gangbang the wife. I love swinging, sharing, and wifeswapping games, yet in the eyes of the the ntr police, they're the same, and the latter suffers even more for it-perhaps influencing devs willingness to be creative.

Pure-harem games tend towards boring stories - you already know what will happen, spoiler; mc fucks all the girls. Ironically this is one of the reasons I also loathe the "hard cuck/ntr" games; you already know what will happen, you go to a party, there's 20 guests and two are buff arrogant guys, guess who has a sex scene......in a perfect game, I have absolutely no idea what will happen, and I have to discover and enjoy it on my own.

 

[Meaning Less]

Hentai and Manga are two sides of the same coin

They obviously aren't, one is meant for fapping the other is meant for general entertaining... That's why when people are in the mood of fapping they look for different things, and why so many waifus are defiled in the hentai and doujin space.

Nobody "likes" NTR, people fap to it because of the corruption elements associated with it.

Netorare is not fun at all and usually devastating in a serious context, but when used in a sexual/erotic context it becomes hot. It isn't rocket science you know.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

"ntr" - I hate that term itself, I play mostly western-style games, i have no interest in anime, I have no interest in classifying things with japanese words in western games with western characters, to me it's simply a relic of older AVNs; having yet to mature from their otaku roots.

I think your characterization is entirely accurate for the overall F95 crowd, and entirely inaccurate for the broader population(at least in the US). This is the world seen through the lense of the 'ntr-hater' for lack of a better term. Swinging, sharing, group sex, wifes-swapping; going by major porn tube site stats are VERY popular genres, nothing similar to the smaller niche extreme gore or scat porn. If someone did hold the views like wifesharing being equivalent to scat porn, then I can understand their revulsion at these games, but that's a warped view of reality.

The reason posts like "iS nTR aVoIdAbLe" are mocked is those posters aren't even self-aware enough to realize the existing arrogant mindset their post reflects. Personally, I hate incest as a theme, I'm not grossed out by it, it just does absolutely nothing for me, particularly the milf variety so pervasive on this site. Yet, I have to soldier on, since it's nigh impossible to find games with other desired tags and no incest so I try and ignore. But if I posted on every game thread where a mother character plays a part: "is incest avoidable???", I'd be derided - justifiably so. Who am I to be the arbiter of what others like? Because that's really what that post is saying - no post is neccesary if one simply decides not to play the game; they need to make others aware of their displeasure, particularly the dev.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Bringing up stats from porn has little bearing on this site. Porn stats have nothing to do with if, for example, a Disney+ animated movie ought to add a graphic sex scene. I am on this site, talking about games (AVNs) on this site. So yes, my characterization relates to this site and the medium of AVNs, not porn.

If I see a new game and see it has the incest tag and I ask, "What type of incest is in the game?" That does not get insulted, it just gets answered. Many tags have varying types of content associated with them. Is Voyeurism watching others fuck, or is it just peeping on love interests? One I don't like (peeping) but will deal with because it is a norm of most AVNs. The other (watching others fuck) makes me not want to play the game at all. So, I will often ask what the developer means with the voyeurism tag. I want to know what a story will have. So that I can know if I will enjoy the game, or if I should just move on. I play AlwaysFan and Desert Stalker, both have avoidable NTR, voyeurism, and sharing/swinging, and I know it is avoidable because I asked and listened to what people who played said about it. I don't play some games because I asked and learned it wasn't avoidable.

Dropping genre shifts on people after they beginning to consume a media is an asshole thing to do. Period. As a consumer I have a right to know what will be in the media I consume. Like with rape, is the rape the MC raping, is it done to the MC, is it done by a third party, is it done on screen? All those questions get asked often and none of it comes from arrogance. Asking about avoidable content is not a problem, and outside of NTR it almost never gets insulted. You just did it here, basically claiming that only arrogant people ask about tags and want clarification. How can a person know if they should avoid a game if they don't ask? But even asking about NTR is seen as insecure, arrogant, or worse by some people.

This is my main frustration. I'm obviously on the "pro-ntr" side, but again, I hate that term because I hate games where you have to watch 10 homeless guys or 12 black bodybuilders gangbang the wife. I love swinging, sharing, and wifeswapping games, yet in the eyes of the the ntr police, they're the same, and the latter suffers even more for it-perhaps influencing devs willingness to be creative.

Pure-harem games tend towards boring stories - you already know what will happen, spoiler; mc fucks all the girls. Ironically this is one of the reasons I also loathe the "hard cuck/ntr" games; you already know what will happen, you go to a party, there's 20 guests and two are buff arrogant guys, guess who has a sex scene......in a perfect game, I have absolutely no idea what will happen, and I have to discover and enjoy it on my own.

All this is fair. I would support a redefining of tags for the site in a heartbeat. But as it stands, we have to use what is there. And yes, there are so many boring games, both pro-NTR games and harem games. Neither genre is more inherently boring than another. A good story is a good story, but most of these games fall prey what you did above. Thinking of AVNs as porn so just dubiously connecting sex scenes. That makes any game, regardless of tags, boring.

 

[JustXThings]

This topic is always funny to read. Like, every time I have some free time, I search for "NTR" in the forums and enjoy the shit show =D

My take. It is a bit hypocritical to talk about "I am here for the story, the character development, realistic relationships and what-not" and then feel betrayed by the developer deciding on adding NTR. Most of games here would realistically end in NTR. People do not usually fool around with 2/3+ LI(s) w/o consequences. Specially if they know each other. They get angry and move on, or worse, they are emotionally invested in the MC, feel very hurt and decide to hurt back. Actively searching to humiliate the MC which is powerless because IRL "MC(s)" do not mind-control everyone around in being nice to them.

I feel that developers should warn about the kinks they are planning to add. But at the same time I feel players who claim they are there for the story are being a bit cynical. If the NTR makes narrative sense, which most of the time does, they are not there for the story the developer wants to tell, they are there for the story they want to hear.

I don't mind being NTR'ed in a game but I should have the chance of moving on from that LI. If the developer gives me the chance, great. If not, then I move on from the game. And of course, if the game purpose was NTR from the start, then I won't complain about not having that chance, since I know the kink, what it implies and what people are looking for when downloading an NTR game.

 

[Chalker]

View attachment 2304161 View attachment 2304162

Stats from nhentai, one of the more popular sites.
Minority indeed lmao.

I think you are confused my dude, unless it was intentional of course, what you describe is more like harem fans than ntr fans.
Ntr fans actually behave much more like adults.

While NTR in japan is by no means not popular, I think it's an unfair comparison since most doujinshi are sub 30 pages, and a harem doujinshi would be harder to meaningfully execute in that short span of time. overall incest fans are eating well apparently. Plus a lot of arguably harem-y ones aren't tagged with harem like

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simply because it's not a central theme.

So comparing a different market in a different medium is quite silly in my most humble opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

I think it's an unfair comparison since most doujinshi are sub 30 pages, and a harem doujinshi would be harder to meaningfully execute in that short span of time.

Excuses.

So comparing a different market in a different medium is quite silly in my most humble opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What different medium?
Both are porn kinks within porn medium.
Though i admit that tagging on nhentai could use a lot of improvement.

PS: About that fish thing.. i actually saw that when it just appeared... it was a bad day to have eyes.
If i remember right, that stuff appeared during the last april fools day.. probably.

 

[Chalker]

Excuses.

cope

What different medium?
Both are porn kinks within porn medium.

Doujinshi/comics, erotica and adult games are different mediums and Netorare is way more popular in Japan than it is in anglosphere, netorares favorite medium is definitely doujinshi. The same can be seen with futanari, which overshadows ntr by 6k comics; it isn't exactly reflected in adult games.

Also im stealing your coffee

 

[chainedpanda]

Maybe because most of those are about non-sexual stuff, but who says it isn't?
How much manga you say you've read so far?
Ntr isn't really my interest so i can't tell even nearly accurately, but i've been reading a lot of manga lately and definitely noticed some ntr-focused works.

I never said they didn't exist tho? Just that they aren't popular. Furthermore, the majority of them still use NTR as more of a background plot angle to fuel the protags revenge.

Because they're obviously different? sheesh. Even I as an NTR fan don't want NTR content or at least the MC getting NTR'd when I'm watching anime because that's not why I came to watch it. In Anime you connect with the protagonist a lot more and do some cool shit whereas in Hentai I usually give a fuck more about finding more extreme scenes because they're generally hotter and I came to fap not to feel cool and shit(Obviously these things aren't mutually exclusive but generally if you want some cool badass shit happening Anime/Manga is a fuck ton better whereas if you want to get to more sexual highs then Porn is also a fuck ton better.)

Just because the 'reason' is different, doesn't mean they aren't similar. Hell, even several recently successful manga and anime works have been created by former successful hentai artists and writers.

They obviously aren't, one is meant for fapping the other is meant for general entertaining... That's why when people are in the mood of fapping they look for different things, and why so many waifus are defiled in the hentai and doujin space.

Nobody "likes" NTR, people fap to it because of the corruption elements associated with it.

Netorare is not fun at all and usually devastating in a serious context, but when used in a sexual/erotic context it becomes hot. It isn't rocket science you know.

If what your saying is true, why do porn games exist to begin with? Why are they growing in popularity? While yes, there is the the porn element, why are there so many who play adult games other than for porn? Why are there adult games which focus more on story than porn?

The answer is pretty simple. They enjoy the adult-oriented storytelling. Stories which cannot exist within modern media can exist within adult games. While there is more of a fantasy element to porn games, it doesn't change the underlying facts that porn games are a source of general entertainment, just like manga.

Also, 'nobody "likes" NTR'? Bullshit lol. There are plenty of people interesting in it. Even ignoring the 'proper definition' defined by F95, there are many people who get off on watching their lover fuck someone else. The only reason it isn't recognized as NTR and instead Voyeurism is because 'NTR needs emotional damage!' belief.

 

[Meaning Less]

why are there so many who play adult games other than for porn? Why are there adult games which focus more on story than porn?

You are joking right? That's the same meme as "I'm watching hentai

You must be registered to see the links

".

All these games have stories with the sole intent of building up the porn, yes the story is important but only when paired with porn, take the porn completely out and suddenly noone would play them.

Also, 'nobody "likes" NTR'? Bullshit lol. There are plenty of people interesting in it. Even ignoring the 'proper definition' defined by F95, there are many people who get off on watching their lover fuck someone else.

If they like watching lovers being fucked then they enjoy sharing, swinging, polyamory or similar. That's not NTR.

Being betrayed is the painful and corrupting element created with netorare, and that can only happen to people that are against it. Nobody likes being actually betrayed...

 

[chainedpanda]

You are joking right? That's the same meme as "I'm watching hentai

You must be registered to see the links

".

All these games have stories with the sole intent of building up the porn, yes the story is important but only when paired with porn, take the porn completely out and suddenly noone would play them.

You do realize that visual novels without porn do exist right? There is in fact an active, and thriving visual novel industry outside of porn games that is more popular than any porn game. Hell, they can even be found on app stores and have millions of downloads. The majority of which have 'adult patches' and yet thousands continue to play them without these patches....

So, I suppose that people play them without the patch just because... what? Just because they're weebs? Adult gaming as we know it was 100% heavily influenced by these games, with or without the adult patch.

Furthermore, there are plenty of people within this very website who play games without much care for the porn itself. They DO enjoy the porn scenarios, they DO enjoy the adult-oriented themes, but the porn itself is secondary. To claim otherwise tells me that either a. You don't really know what your talking about, b. You're picking a fight for the sake of it c. You either refuse, or cannot understand other people.

If they like watching lovers being fucked then they enjoy sharing, swinging, polyamory or similar. That's not NTR.

Being betrayed is the painful and corrupting element created with netorare, and that can only happen to people that are against it. Nobody likes being actually betrayed...

That is, and always has been a shit argument to make. Language is fluid, definitions change, and adapt all the time. NTR MAY have started as you described, but many people now interpret NTR to be ALL situations in which a love interest sleeps with someone else. I really don't give two cents what the 'original' definition of NTR was.

Relying on the definition is similar to a child getting in trouble for saying 'faggot' and arguing "but it just means a bundle of sticks!" Just because that is ALL it meant in the past, doesn't mean that's all it means now. Furthermore, someone has already given a breakdown on F95s definition above.

Spoiler: Definition

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[Meaning Less]

You do realize that visual novels without porn do exist right? There is in fact an active, and thriving visual novel industry outside of porn games that is more popular than any porn game.

Sure, but those are not called adult games, they are simply games.

NTR MAY have started as you described

It still is, and that is the only netorare people you guys were arguing with were talking about.

You are just intentionally using the wrong definition on both points to disagree, ignorance is a bliss as they say.

 

[AnonymousUnique123]

That is, and always has been a shit argument to make. Language is fluid, definitions change, and adapt all the time. NTR MAY have started as you described, but many people now interpret NTR to be ALL situations in which a love interest sleeps with someone else. I really don't give two cents what the 'original' definition of NTR was.

Relying on the definition is similar to a child getting in trouble for saying 'faggot' and arguing "but it just means a bundle of sticks!" Just because that is ALL it meant in the past, doesn't mean that's all it means now. Furthermore, someone has already given a breakdown on F95s definition above.

How can it be a shit argument to make? That definition you gave didn't even include scenes that were "NOT" designed to cause jealousy. And yet it wants to label it NTR anyways lol. Have you actually even played actual swinging, sharing games? Maybe you meant those games are gonna cause a lot of people jealousy anyway, so might as well call it NTR, even though the dialogue and mood of the scene is set up much differently. That Faggot kid example you gave didn't even work. While the kid may have said something true, the context and way in which he said faggot obviously changed the meaning/definition so he isn't right and excused cause it's obviously done for mischief. This example can't be used because there are legitimate reasons for people wanting objective tag definitions here.

 

[zuulan]

For me there is too much problems with NTR genre, there is no specific defination and TAG that everyone undrestands NTR means different things for Different people.

Another problem is people get cheated, person downloads new game tryis it and says, Oh its what its NTR is about its not that bad, then he supports it and in few next updates all his world is turned up. What he thought was NTR is not actually real NTR will come later and he spent his money and time for game. SO that why i think Devs should not release game aka v.0.0.0.0.1 or v.0.0.5 they should release game where first gameplay can give accurate picture what game is about so people can try and say oh i like it or oh thats not for me.

Personally i have bad experiences with games Tagged NTR, where MC is nothing more than an observer and see how hes LI get fucked and playd and he as the character gets mocked and Game started pretty fair and hopeful.

Personally i think creation promoted as game should have choices where MC controls envoierment. Static Visual novels should not be promoted as games and they should have they subforum and tags that separate them

 

[Hildegardt]

Some things are not *just* a fetish, they can trigger real responses when seen even in media.

Yeah, some fetishes make me cum "real" cum and some make me summon ectoplasm through an interdimensional portal to the shadow realm. I thought I was the only one, because it's such an "unreal" experience.

 

[Ying Ko]

View attachment 2304161 View attachment 2304162

Stats from nhentai, one of the more popular sites.
Minority indeed lmao.

I think you are confused my dude, unless it was intentional of course, what you describe is more like harem fans than ntr fans.
Ntr fans actually behave much more like adults.

Apples and oranges. What tags are considered popular or unpopular is dependent on the type of media you look at. When it comes to media such as animations, images and short comics the tags that dominate are futa, BBC, gangbang and beast, just look at this sites animation and comics section. When it comes to more drawn out media with longer development cycles and greater attempts at characterisation and narrative, especially those with a focus on a male protagonist, the most popular tags are harem, college, incest and corruption. There is a reason NLT dropped BBC gangbangs when he created his male protagonist games, he knows the audiences, the markets.