Just what counts as NTR/sharing?

[Atemsiel]

Hello nerds,

We all hate NTR and sharing (Except for people who don't) but while I'm aware of what it is, I wonder if other people have different definitions. I think we can all agree that if you're in a harem game or whatever, and one of your girls fucks another guy, that's NTR. (Obviously this will depend on the exact circumstances, but usually it counts.)

Similarly, a MMF threesome between you, one of the girls and some other dude is sharing, right? Here's my question...

If one of your girls fools around with another girl, does that count as NTR? Does it matter if the other girl is also one of your girls? Is it only NTR if it's another guy rather than a girl? Gathering opinions here as I've made some promises on my game and don't want to break them really.

Would you count it as sharing if the MC and a girl were to gangbang another girl together? As far as I'm concerned as long as it's not another dude involved then the NTR and Sharing tags aren't being triggered, but I wonder if you guys have any other opinions?

 

[Meaning Less]

VNDB

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, read every point to know what is considered netorare and what isn't.

 

[Atemsiel]

VNDB

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, read every point to know what is considered netorare and what isn't.

Wow, didn't realise someone had actually done a writeup on this exact topic. Thanks.

I can safely say then what I've got planned is not NTR so I think I'm all set. None of my characters are getting "Stolen" as such. Or at least not from the player.

 

[Count Morado]

Hello nerds,

We all hate NTR and sharing (Except for people who don't) but while I'm aware of what it is, I wonder if other people have different definitions. I think we can all agree that if you're in a harem game or whatever, and one of your girls fucks another guy, that's NTR. (Obviously this will depend on the exact circumstances, but usually it counts.)

Similarly, a MMF threesome between you, one of the girls and some other dude is sharing, right? Here's my question...

If one of your girls fools around with another girl, does that count as NTR? Does it matter if the other girl is also one of your girls? Is it only NTR if it's another guy rather than a girl? Gathering opinions here as I've made some promises on my game and don't want to break them really.

Would you count it as sharing if the MC and a girl were to gangbang another girl together? As far as I'm concerned as long as it's not another dude involved then the NTR and Sharing tags aren't being triggered, but I wonder if you guys have any other opinions?

Well, seeing as this has been discussed, argued, wrestled, hogtied, cutthroated ad infinitum in 100s of threads on this site -- it's so nice to see a developer not decide to just follow the site's rules that they plan to have their product posted on. /s

You aren't going to make everyone happy. However, if you follow the tags on the site - you at least have a defensible position.

So, here's the list of this site's tags for you to consider, with their definitions. Also, a couple selections immediately come to mind:

• Cheating [A significant other having sex with someone other than their partner.]
• Group sex [Sex act involving 3 or more people.]
• Harem [1 person being courted by at least 3 others, all engaging in consensual sex simultaneously.]
• Multiple Penetration [Sexual penetration involving 2+ penis/toys into multiple holes or same holes.]
• NTR [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
• Rape [Forced or non-consensual sex.]
• Sexual Harassment [Sexual coercion, or the unwelcome/inappropriate promise of rewards for sexual favors.]
• Slave [A person who is the property of another and is forced to obey them. Generally involving sex acts.]
• Swinging [A couple allowing one or both partners to have sex with a third party.]

EDIT: That said, a final reminder that everyone has their own personal definition of sharing and NTR and you will not be able to meet everyone's definitions. Hell, even the anti-NTR thread participants don't have a unified definition - so you could meet the definition of 50% of them, only to have the other 50% think you're an "NTR-loving cuck".

 

[woody554]

I think we can all agree that if you're in a harem game or whatever, and one of your girls fucks another guy, that's NTR. (Obviously this will depend on the exact circumstances, but usually it counts.)

Similarly, a MMF threesome between you, one of the girls and some other dude is sharing, right? Here's my question...

If one of your girls fools around with another girl, does that count as NTR? Does it matter if the other girl is also one of your girls? Is it only NTR if it's another guy rather than a girl? Gathering opinions here as I've made some promises on my game and don't want to break them really.

Would you count it as sharing if the MC and a girl were to gangbang another girl together? As far as I'm concerned as long as it's not another dude involved then the NTR and Sharing tags aren't being triggered, but I wonder if you guys have any other opinions?

none of your examples are ntr, not without additional behaviour. in all cases the ntr issue is the girls need to be 'stolen' from you, literally 'taken away'. if you're nor hurt by it, it's not ntr.

but as count morado said, you won't ever satisfy all online morons no matter what you do. they make up their own definitions on the go with no regard to facts, and no force in the universe can ever stop them. you can't fix stupid, so don't even try.

make the effort you're willing to make, but ultimately it's out of your hands. there will be shit regardless of your choices, and your job is to remind yourself they're only individual morons and not the voice of your audience. they're really not even your audience.

 

[Atemsiel]

none of your examples are ntr, not without additional behaviour. in all cases the ntr issue is the girls need to be 'stolen' from you, literally 'taken away'. if you're nor hurt by it, it's not ntr.

but as count morado said, you won't ever satisfy all online morons no matter what you do. they make up their own definitions on the go with no regard to facts, and no force in the universe can ever stop them. you can't fix stupid, so don't even try.

make the effort you're willing to make, but ultimately it's out of your hands. there will be shit regardless of your choices, and your job is to remind yourself they're only individual morons and not the voice of your audience. they're really not even your audience.

That's perfect then. My main thing was just making sure I wasn't misunderstanding what people consider to be NTR, since I've promised none of it. My female characters may be getting it on with each other sometimes, and I mostly wanted to check that wasn't considered NTR. Sounds like it isn't. I swear sometimes it seems like a girl even knowing another man exists is NTR according to some of the threads on here. I'm fully expecting to get people in future who are mad about the way I do things, but so far I've been spared from that.

Well, seeing as this has been discussed, argued, wrestled, hogtied, cutthroated ad infinitum in 100s of threads on this site -- it's so nice to see a developer not decide to just follow the site's rules that they plan to have their product posted on. /s

Hehe, my bad, I think I was just being lazy. Luckily, I've got a pretty definitive answer to my question from this thread. Thanks for your input.

 

[woody554]

I swear sometimes it seems like a girl even knowing another man exists is NTR according to some of the threads on here. I'm fully expecting to get people in future who are mad about the way I do things, but so far I've been spared from that.

I think it goes a long way if you even attempt to clarify your position from the beginning.

 

[E_nigma]

Hello nerds,

We all hate NTR and sharing (Except for people who don't) but while I'm aware of what it is, I wonder if other people have different definitions. I think we can all agree that if you're in a harem game or whatever, and one of your girls fucks another guy, that's NTR. (Obviously this will depend on the exact circumstances, but usually it counts.)

Similarly, a MMF threesome between you, one of the girls and some other dude is sharing, right? Here's my question...

If one of your girls fools around with another girl, does that count as NTR? Does it matter if the other girl is also one of your girls? Is it only NTR if it's another guy rather than a girl? Gathering opinions here as I've made some promises on my game and don't want to break them really.

Would you count it as sharing if the MC and a girl were to gangbang another girl together? As far as I'm concerned as long as it's not another dude involved then the NTR and Sharing tags aren't being triggered, but I wonder if you guys have any other opinions?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone call MFF ntr before. I mean it's kind of sharing but if they are all in a relationship together (harem being obv example) then those are them sharing mc and not mc sharing them, I think that's the distinction. In the case of girls sharing each other, if they are all the pc's LIs I don't think that sets off any red flags cause again they are in a relationship that's polyamorous. Though I have seen several objections from people not wanting the girls to have lesbian scenes, only a handful of comments like that though. If the other girl isn't a LI that probably is ground for cheating tag unless it's like done for purposes of upsetting pc, your LI cheats on you as revenge or something, probably ntr.

Any involvement whatsoever with another male is gonna get called ntr or sharing, though some games get away with it/avoid issues like shut up and dance before the mom is an active LI there is a set of choices you can make where she blows her boss to get a promotion, though in that case it has effectively been removed from the game. There is also another scene in the game where the pc steals some other dudes girl, brings her into the bathroom, do the do and your LI comes in and gets jealous and wants to show her up and afaik that hasn't triggered any ntr backlash in the comments

 

[Atemsiel]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone call MFF ntr before. I mean it's kind of sharing but if they are all in a relationship together (harem being obv example) then those are them sharing mc and not mc sharing them, I think that's the distinction. In the case of girls sharing each other, if they are all the pc's LIs I don't think that sets off any red flags cause again they are in a relationship that's polyamorous. Though I have seen several objections from people not wanting the girls to have lesbian scenes, only a handful of comments like that though. If the other girl isn't a LI that probably is ground for cheating tag unless it's like done for purposes of upsetting pc, your LI cheats on you as revenge or something, probably ntr.

Any involvement whatsoever with another male is gonna get called ntr or sharing, though some games get away with it/avoid issues like shut up and dance before the mom is an active LI there is a set of choices you can make where she blows her boss to get a promotion, though in that case it has effectively been removed from the game. There is also another scene in the game where the pc steals some other dudes girl, brings her into the bathroom, do the do and your LI comes in and gets jealous and wants to show her up and afaik that hasn't triggered any ntr backlash in the comments

Interesting. I think I'm in the clear then. Ultimately, jealousy sucks and I don't want my players to feel it when they play my game. I love the idea of having my female characters fool around with each other when the story calls for it. My main issue was just not wanting to trip up on a technicality. No other guys in my game have any actual chance with any of the players' girls (Though it may be teased at times). Thanks for the detailed answer.

I think it goes a long way if you even attempt to clarify your position from the beginning.

Yes I've tried to be as transparent as possible in my game thread. The subject matter of my game does put some people on edge, but the next update will be explaining how I'm avoiding NTR and sharing. I'm told it's heavily implied by the story that I'm including it, so hopefully after the next update people will see where I'm going with this.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Gathering opinions here as I've made some promises on my game and don't want to break them really.

Shouldn't you've cared about this before you made the promises ? I mean, it's a little absurd to promise that your game will be NTR free, before you even know what is, or not, NTR, and what is, or not, seen as NTR by NTR haters.

But, well... the only way to really have a game that will be seen as NTR free by everyone, is to ensure that the girls will only interact, including innocent talk, with the MC.
There's people who will complain if one of the girl have sex with another one. There's people who will complain if a scene let them believe that one of the girl can perhaps, they aren't sure at 100% but well you made the girl say "I like you" so it surely happened, have had sex with someone else than the MC. There's even people who will complain if one girl, that at no time is intended to be part of the harem, nor to be involved with the MC, have sex with someone else than the MC.
All this really happened in the past, and will happen in the future, so yeah, the only way to really be safe from NTR haters is put all the girls in cage... alone in the cage, and each cage in a different room.

Or you don't care about insignificant people, and you make your game the way you want to make it.

 

[E_nigma]

I've tried to be as transparent as possible in my game thread.

Yeah, kinda goes without saying this should be the basis for any good overview. There are some wishy washy descriptions and some devs trying to please everyone but there are a few tags that get a bit of heat and ntr/sharing/cheating kind of require disclaimers, in particular when it's not the central theme of the game or it's one of those "avoidable"(which in itself often has to be elaborated upon) kinda of deals. Otherwise there is going to be a show in the comments.

But as long as no other guys make it with the LI's or the context of them being with other dudes isn't like...explicit? Like before she's in a relationship with pc she has a bf or has been dating and the player never sees them engage in anything then breaks up or goes for the player you should be in the clear. I don't think milfy city got any ntr hate for the parents being in a relationship, though you never actually see them do anything with each other.

 

[DawnCry]

To be fair I always think that what truly makes the difference between NTR content and not NTR is basically the jealously, it is mostly accepted some girl on girl action because it doesn't evoke that feeling but rather "I wanna be the third one in that".

To be fair what tends to define most NTR stories is either a MC that gets very hurt/destroyed by the NTR and an evil antagonist that gets the girl.

The reason why I point this out is that here comes big differences like between NTR and fuckfest, because on the fuckfest you can perfectly have love interests have sex with other people, but the point isn't to cause jealously or hurt the MC, it tends to be sexually open girls having fun.

But that's about it.

 

[Atemsiel]

Shouldn't you've cared about this before you made the promises ? I mean, it's a little absurd to promise that your game will be NTR free, before you even know what is, or not, NTR, and what is, or not, seen as NTR by NTR haters.

I made the promise based on what I understood NTR to be. To me, it was basically when a characters love interest gets involved with another dude and makes the player jealous. But earlier today I was making a lesbian scene involving 2 of the players love interests and suddenly thought, if one of these 2 was a dude then this would 100% be NTR, does the fact they're both girls change that? That's why I asked really. The promise I made was meant as "Your girls won't be fucking around with any other guys" but I realised I didn't know the technical definition.

I ended up having to take a stance on it pretty early because one of the first questions I got asked was "Will there be NTR?". And then I got asked again, and again and again until I took a stance. I hadn't even thought about it until I got asked that, but apparently people here like it to be a hard yes or no on that topic. Personally, I don't like feeling jealous so I'm not gonna include it. 2 girls getting it on doesn't make me feel jealous but I wasn't sure if others felt the same. That was the reason for my question.

 

[Geralt_R]

Would you count it as sharing if the MC and a girl were to gangbang another girl together? As far as I'm concerned as long as it's not another dude involved then the NTR and Sharing tags aren't being triggered, but I wonder if you guys have any other opinions?

Maybe I am one of the few who don't like sharing at all and consider the typical MFF scenario as sharing. I think all of that should always be entirely optional. One prime example are Maya and Josy in BADIK, while I really like both of them I really hate it that there are (as of now) no solo paths and that sharing is mandatory, yes it has story reasons in BADIK to create drama, but still, solo paths should be available sooner than later.
Of course it could be quite difficult to always account for various different routes and making sharing entirely optional (talking about the typical MFF constellation) may not always be feasible. But it should always be something a game aims to do.
Several VNs do just that and allow you to either trigger the typical MFF constellation or to avoid it (and sharing) altogether. So it's certainly doable. It's less of an issue maybe in your typical harem style game were the girls are just Pokemon to collect and all the girls are the usual bi-curious group sex fanatics who encourage the MC to add ever more members to the club, I would say it's ok here, since the entire premise is silly to begin with.
But non harem games should ideally always give an option for that.

 

[Atemsiel]

Maybe I am one of the few who don't like sharing at all and consider the typical MFF scenario as sharing. I think all of that should always be entirely optional. One prime example are Maya and Josy in BADIK, while I really like both of them I really hate it that there are (as of now) no solo paths and that sharing is mandatory, yes it has story reasons in BADIK to create drama, but still, solo paths should be available sooner than later.
Of course it could be quite difficult to always account for various different routes and making sharing entirely optional (talking about the typical MFF constellation) may not always be feasible. But it should always be something a game aims to do.
Several VNs do just that and allow you to either trigger the typical MFF constellation or to avoid it (and sharing) altogether. So it's certainly doable. It's less of an issue maybe in your typical harem style game were the girls are just Pokemon to collect and all the girls are the usual bi-curious group sex fanatics who encourage the MC to add ever more members to the club, I would say it's ok here, since the entire premise is silly to begin with.
But non harem games should ideally always give an option for that.

This kinda thing is exactly why I made the thread. It's great info and an interesting perspective. I'm not in this thread to advertise my game, but yeah, thanks for your input man.

 

[moskyx]

I made the promise based on what I understood NTR to be. To me, it was basically when a characters love interest gets involved with another dude and makes the player jealous. But earlier today I was making a lesbian scene involving 2 of the players love interests and suddenly thought, if one of these 2 was a dude then this would 100% be NTR, does the fact they're both girls change that? That's why I asked really. The promise I made was meant as "Your girls won't be fucking around with any other guys" but I realised I didn't know the technical definition.

I ended up having to take a stance on it pretty early because one of the first questions I got asked was "Will there be NTR?". And then I got asked again, and again and again until I took a stance. I hadn't even thought about it until I got asked that, but apparently people here like it to be a hard yes or no on that topic. Personally, I don't like feeling jealous so I'm not gonna include it. 2 girls getting it on doesn't make me feel jealous but I wasn't sure if others felt the same. That was the reason for my question.

You are doomed. You said "no NTR, never ever" yet you are going to include a lesbian scene between two love interests. That's NTR for some (many?) people in this forum, who will feel attacked and betrayed by you after saying "no NTR". You should ask about your intentions in the djkunn's NTR-free thread you'll find in the offtopic section. That's where your game will be labeled as "unsafe" and you'll receive some not-so-nice comments because of your change of mind regarding NTR

 

[Doorknob22]

Only the first is (delicious) NTR in my book. Also: it doesn't have to be a love interest, mother "cuckolding" her self-righteous son is also hot as fuck.

 

[AmazonessKing]

You are doomed. You said "no NTR, never ever" yet you are going to include a lesbian scene between two love interests. That's NTR for some (many?) people in this forum, who will feel attacked and betrayed by you after saying "no NTR". You should ask about your intentions in the djkunn's NTR-free thread you'll find in the offtopic section. That's where your game will be labeled as "unsafe" and you'll receive some not-so-nice comments because of your change of mind regarding NTR

Easy way to fix it: make sure the MC is part of it, as in, they can ask the MC if they can do it, and well, the MC can and should join any time.

Personally, I think people getting upsetefensicer lesbian scenes with two women you are going to fuck is kind of going over the line in most circumstances where the scene is done for the enjoyment of the MC and the player, at this point I'm starting to think people doing it do it to try to make people who isn't into NTR irrational as usual, sort of an exaggeration fallacy; "this people don't even like lesbians! They are crazy/insecure!".

That's not to say I don't think lesbian NTR is not a thing, but I think it's extremely rare and unlikely (maybe if the two girls in question talk shit about the MC and/or one of them actively tries to convince the other to not be with you anymore), and also I'm sure there's people that genuinely doesn't like it (personally know one, the most insecure person I know at that), but well, you can't please everyone.

As how I usually see it, it's just two women in your harem having fun, and if you allow it, that's cool, nobody is stealing anyone, no one wants to make you, the player, feel bad, etc etc.

 

[moskyx]

Easy way to fix it: make sure the MC is part of it, as in, they can ask the MC if they can do it, and well, the MC can and should join any time.

Personally, I think people getting upsetefensicer lesbian scenes with two women you are going to fuck is kind of going over the line in most circumstances where the scene is done for the enjoyment of the MC and the player, at this point I'm starting to think people doing it do it to try to make people who isn't into NTR irrational as usual, sort of an exaggeration fallacy; "this people don't even like lesbians! They are crazy/insecure!".

That's not to say I don't think lesbian NTR is not a thing, but I think it's extremely rare and unlikely (maybe if the two girls in question talk shit about the MC and/or one of them actively tries to convince the other to not be with you anymore), and also I'm sure there's people that genuinely doesn't like it (personally know one, the most insecure person I know at that), but well, you can't please everyone.

As how I usually see it, it's just two women in your harem having fun, and if you allow it, that's cool, nobody is stealing anyone, no one wants to make you, the player, feel bad, etc etc.

You are perfectly aware of what will happen in that thread as soon as the update is released including that scene. The OP is asking if that situation could be labeled as NTR by some people and we all know it will be. So my simple suggestion to the dev is to ask in advance in the thread where he can get the most specific feedback. Especially after claiming his game will be NTR free

 

[AmazonessKing]

You are perfectly aware of what will happen in that thread as soon as the update is released including that scene. The OP is asking if that situation could be labeled as NTR by some people and we all know it will be. So my simple suggestion to the dev is to ask in advance in the thread where he can get the most specific feedback. Especially after claiming his game will be NTR free

Right, perfectly sensible solution as well.