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TessSadist

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Well..that was bloody fantastic! Small but important pawn in other people's games....very very interesting so far with some interesting characters. Really looking forward to where this one goes and the directions it could take with allies etc. Damn, seems everyone (mostly) is out for themselves....and the sisters...jeesh...tough call....and who was Patricia talking to? Hmmm....Very complex, excellently written story so far.

My only 2 (small) criticisms would be, if playing Olivia on a Sub path, some of the 'general conversations' with her seem off if you want her to have a more submissive demeanor but it's not jarring. The second would be the yellow font is not the best in many screens and tends to get lost against the image.

Other than that, really love this one, definitely up there with the best so far.
Thanks for the feedback I appreciate this more than anything because it's very specific! I have struggled with how to do the font better and even created a textbox version of 0.2 (black textbox background) as an alternative version. I've added a little more black outline to text for 0.3 but might still do two versions again. With dialogue I am most troubled with trying to write either 1) male "locker room" style conversation (versus female "restaurant bathroom/locker room" conversation which is easy for me) and 2) a submissive Olivia (sister character) because for me it's so unnatural, hee hee.
 

Leo Humilis

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May 4, 2020
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1) male "locker room" style conversation (versus female "restaurant bathroom/locker room" conversation which is easy for me)
Hmm, from my own experience (being a guy and all), guys do not actually tend to talk very much in restaurant bathrooms and locker rooms... but, perhaps, that's just me. Well, back in my high-school days (when there was no Internet), the boys would sometimes share porn photos and discuss them in school bathrooms and gym locker rooms, but that was about the only social interaction that happened there apart from occasional bullying. More adult guys would sometimes discuss their sexual exploits or merely some trivial matters in gym locker rooms (if they are good friends), but then, it's pretty much the same type of conversation the same guys would have over a pint of beer in a pub. There is basically nothing very special about guys' conversations in bathrooms or locker rooms - if they talk, they would likely talk about much the same things they would talk about in any other place. If you are thinking jail bathrooms/locker rooms (never actually been to one, thanks goodness) same principal as in high/secondary school would likely apply: they might talk about things or do things they wouldn't normally talk about or do with teachers/guards around.

2) a submissive Olivia (sister character) because for me it's so unnatural, hee hee.
Same sentiment here, LOL, as I personally find dominant male characters and submissive female characters completely unappealing.
 
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Maviarab

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Jul 12, 2020
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Thanks for the feedback I appreciate this more than anything because it's very specific! I have struggled with how to do the font better and even created a textbox version of 0.2 (black textbox background) as an alternative version. I've added a little more black outline to text for 0.3 but might still do two versions again. With dialogue I am most troubled with trying to write either 1) male "locker room" style conversation (versus female "restaurant bathroom/locker room" conversation which is easy for me) and 2) a submissive Olivia (sister character) because for me it's so unnatural, hee hee.
My absolute pleasure. Font colour yeah...it's different for sure and I do like it, it just becomes hard to read on some images, especially (if this helps) the scenes with Olivia in her hotel room. Maybe uses a slightly transparant dark dialogue box would help contrast the yellow...not sure, leave that one with you. Or ignore me completely lmao...*shrugs*

Hmm...not sure how to help with that one though do have experience with submissive ladies. Again, like the font colour, the dialogue is not bad at all, in fact quite the opposite, to specify more, it's the general dialogue such as Olivia's responses to Alessandra about the job etc, when she is alone in the hotel etc, that seem to me (at least) to be a little too 'normal' for a submissive/shy/quiet girl if
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The MC's writing is fine to me personally, not perhaps how I might talk if was in such a situation heh but I have no issues with his. Again, overall the writing is excellent as far as I'm concerned.
 

Spfjolietjake

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Sep 26, 2019
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Yeah restrooms is not a place I have conversations, it kind of weirds me out when guys try. Had a few talks in locker rooms but its surface stuff nothing that requires deep thoughts
 
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TessSadist

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I wouldn't know for the guys locker rooms/bathrooms very well! But I can say that with great confidence and experience that a guy's entire night might hinge on two women talking in the restaurant restroom in the middle of dinner!
 

Spfjolietjake

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Sep 26, 2019
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I wouldn't know for the guys locker rooms/bathrooms very well! But I can say that with great confidence and experience that a guy's entire night might hinge on two women talking in the restaurant restroom in the middle of dinner!
That I 100% believe :LOL: (y)
 
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Durrus

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Sep 7, 2020
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Played through the current version a couple of times, great effort, great writing, great ideas, great renders. If I had to be bitching about something, it would be the fact that you will need to replay the game insane amount of times to be confident that you checked all possible routes. A gallery of sorts would be nice to have after you finished a playthrough, with indications where you needed to go in a different direction to get a different route (and what the route would entail). Another thing is that this game commits the same injustice that many others do, and considers submissive decisions to be objectively the losing ones - from what I've seen so far it seems that unless you prove yourself as a sadistic dominant sociopath, you're not getting anywhere near the good endings, the game establishes it through and through that you'll need a dominant choice path to advance in ranks. Not what I hoped for after seeing "Female domination" tag, but I can't and won't debate the creators vision!
 

TessSadist

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Played through the current version a couple of times, great effort, great writing, great ideas, great renders. If I had to be bitching about something, it would be the fact that you will need to replay the game insane amount of times to be confident that you checked all possible routes. A gallery of sorts would be nice to have after you finished a playthrough, with indications where you needed to go in a different direction to get a different route (and what the route would entail). Another thing is that this game commits the same injustice that many others do, and considers submissive decisions to be objectively the losing ones - from what I've seen so far it seems that unless you prove yourself as a sadistic dominant sociopath, you're not getting anywhere near the good endings, the game establishes it through and through that you'll need a dominant choice path to advance in ranks. Not what I hoped for after seeing "Female domination" tag, but I can't and won't debate the creators vision!
Fair points, but don't be so sure about submissive/rank pointing to certain endings. It is true it would be harder to get certain endings and higher ranks in the company being totally submissive (maybe being the sole CEO of the Karlsson Group) but you kind of often need a certain kind of personality to be a CEO as it is...but perhaps a smart sub can team up with the right person that will advance them to more power.

I guess it also depends on what is a "good ending" to someone as I think it's very subjective when dealing with kinks in particular. A very good ending to me personally (if I was a sub which honestly I'm the complete opposite so maybe this ending is stupid to some subs hee hee) both from moral and personal standpoints would be the three siblings teaming up and 1) freeing themselves from the situation and winning the Gambit/taking over the company and 2) changing the company in a way that they impact/improve the world forever. A side aspect to that would be a sub romance with a caring and morally good dominant female that you walk off into the sunset with for a nice dom/sub romance. A sub can certainly get this particular ending.
 

<sunrise>

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Sep 10, 2019
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Fair points, but don't be so sure about submissive/rank pointing to certain endings. It is true it would be harder to get certain endings and higher ranks in the company being totally submissive (maybe being the sole CEO of the Karlsson Group) but you kind of often need a certain kind of personality to be a CEO as it is...but perhaps a smart sub can team up with the right person that will advance them to more power.

I guess it also depends on what is a "good ending" to someone as I think it's very subjective when dealing with kinks in particular. A very good ending to me personally (if I was a sub which honestly I'm the complete opposite so maybe this ending is stupid to some subs hee hee) both from moral and personal standpoints would be the three siblings teaming up and 1) freeing themselves from the situation and winning the Gambit/taking over the company and 2) changing the company in a way that they impact/improve the world forever. A side aspect to that would be a sub romance with a caring and morally good dominant female that you walk off into the sunset with for a nice dom/sub romance. A sub can certainly get this particular ending.
In other words, for this ending requires Dominique)
 

TessSadist

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In other words, for this ending requires Dominique)
Perhaps...some other characters might also be possible to influence over time as a character/morality arc...but others are more set in their ways so to speak and can't be changed much.
 

asehpe

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Mar 13, 2020
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In other words, for this ending requires Dominique)
That would be the obvious answer, and it may be a little too early to come to this conclusion, at least to the exclusion of other ladies. (I suppose part of the point here is what kind of character development options there are for the other women. It's never entirely clear to me why everybody seems to have a dog-eats-dog realistic/pessimistic approach to life in this particular dystopia [reminds me of the Skreemer graphic novel]; is it something that comes with the story behind the Karlsson group, and thus the initial development of the main female characters? Depending on these circumstances, more than one of them might be able to change over time in more positive directions. Or... more negative ones, e.g., for Dominique.)
 
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asehpe

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It is true it would be harder to get certain endings and higher ranks in the company being totally submissive (maybe being the sole CEO of the Karlsson Group) but you kind of often need a certain kind of personality to be a CEO as it is... [...] A very good ending to me personally (if I was a sub which honestly I'm the complete opposite so maybe this ending is stupid to some subs hee hee) both from moral and personal standpoints would be the three siblings teaming up and 1) freeing themselves from the situation and winning the Gambit/taking over the company and 2) changing the company in a way that they impact/improve the world forever. A side aspect to that would be a sub romance with a caring and morally good dominant female that you walk off into the sunset with for a nice dom/sub romance. A sub can certainly get this particular ending.
The question of the relation between sub/dom sexual preferences and assertive/nonassertive real-life behavior has always interested me, and I am curious about how you will treat it in this game (they are sort of lumped into one pair of varibles, sub vs. dom; good vs. evil adds some extra room here, though it is in principle a third, possibly independent axis). It is, after all, possible to enjoy being dominated sexually while wanting to play the kind of power game that would lead to becoming sole CEO of the Karlsson group... the two kind of interests are not incompatible, though they are apparently not statistically independent either. It's also interesting to see what impression a domme author would have of a sub character's psyche and overall personality, and how it is reflected in the consequences and possible endings of the game. It is usually the other way round -- sub authors attempt to create dom(me) characters and often project their desires onto them, thus generating psychologically unrealistic personalities.
 

TessSadist

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The question of the relation between sub/dom sexual preferences and assertive/nonassertive real-life behavior has always interested me, and I am curious about how you will treat it in this game (they are sort of lumped into one pair of varibles, sub vs. dom; good vs. evil adds some extra room here, though it is in principle a third, possibly independent axis). It is, after all, possible to enjoy being dominated sexually while wanting to play the kind of power game that would lead to becoming sole CEO of the Karlsson group... the two kind of interests are not incompatible, though they are apparently not statistically independent either. It's also interesting to see what impression a domme author would have of a sub character's psyche and overall personality, and how it is reflected in the consequences and possible endings of the game. It is usually the other way round -- sub authors attempt to create dom(me) characters and often project their desires onto them, thus generating psychologically unrealistic personalities.
This is a tricky balance to me too -- showing a fairly strong and normal behaved person that is very submissive behind closed doors. I think if a dominant female (ok just definitely thinking of myself here) saw the submissive bedroom behavior first, I might have a hard time separating this so easily from seeing a strong man in normal day to day life, but seeing it in the reverse -- strong exterior first -- and then discovering the submissive sexual nature might be easier for some strange reason. I have seen this combination though in real life, and actually in pretty high level executives!
 
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<sunrise>

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That would be the obvious answer, and it may be a little too early to come to this conclusion, at least to the exclusion of other ladies. (I suppose part of the point here is what kind of character development options there are for the other women. It's never entirely clear to me why everybody seems to have a dog-eats-dog realistic/pessimistic approach to life in this particular dystopia [reminds me of the Skreemer graphic novel]; is it something that comes with the story behind the Karlsson group, and thus the initial development of the main female characters? Depending on these circumstances, more than one of them might be able to change over time in more positive directions. Or... more negative ones, e.g., for Dominique.)
I hope so, we will see... I agree that it is too early to talk about any endings. But the one described above suggested itself with the obvious female character, that already set by default like good) But everyone loves unexpected twists...
 

asehpe

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I hope so, we will see... I agree that it is too early to talk about any endings. But the one described above suggested itself with the obvious female character, that already set by default like good) But everyone loves unexpected twists...
I like to think of it like this: how often have you guessed at what people you know in real life (co-workers, friends, relatives) would actually want in their romantic life (what's happiness to them, as was asked in Vanilla Sky), and how much will that be affected by the path they're currently following? Maybe this guy/gal wants a steady romantic relationship, with possible commitment and family formation later on -- but is this compatible with his desire to be an artist, and the choices he's making because of it? The amount of time, and sheer psychic energy (= "how much of himself") he dedicates to his work? Won't there be a conflict, and won't he have to "grow up" (= learn more about himself, and become wiser) in some sense in order to solve this conflict? Usually the conflict is between work and relationships/love, but there are other possibilities; the common point is that you end up changing in ways that appear unexpected, but that have to do with things about yourself that the conflict forces you to face.

I knew in real life a guy who was both extraordinarily dedicated to his work (it, and the relationships he made because of it, were basically his life, and he was very talented) and afraid of romantic commitment, because of some very bad experiences he had witnessed in his own family as a child (one case even ending in suicide). This lead to a steady workaholic path in life, with a lot of success in his career but very little time for any real emotional bonding -- sex was just a need to be satisfied whenever he had the time (and any girlfriend who thought she might end up being at least as important as his work quickly learned that this was never going to be the case), and even his friendships tended to be with colleagues and also helped him achieve his career goals. Then something happened -- and that, after he had already turned 60: he met a family with a very intelligent 6-year-old daughter, a girl who kept surprising him by both being amazingly smart and interesting for her age, and also sweet in a rather unconscious way. He was so smitten that the desire to be a father, which I think he had unconsciously had for quite a while but never admitted, finally became conscious. It took him an additional couple of years, but he finally found a woman 25 years younger who was good for him, and got married. Last I heard of him, they had a baby daughter, and he was seriously trying to retire so as to dedicate as much time as possible to being a father in his new family -- he had more than enough money for that already, and his retirement would give him a great income; still, most people who knew him couldn't believe he'd ever give up the thrill of his career. A twist IRL that they would have considered utterly impossible, yet there it was.
 
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asehpe

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This is a tricky balance to me too -- showing a fairly strong and normal behaved person that is very submissive behind closed doors. I think if a dominant female (ok just definitely thinking of myself here) saw the submissive bedroom behavior first, I might have a hard time separating this so easily from seeing a strong man in normal day to day life, but seeing it in the reverse -- strong exterior first -- and then discovering the submissive sexual nature might be easier for some strange reason. I have seen this combination though in real life, and actually in pretty high level executives!
So have I in colleagues, and to some extent in myself, and that is why it has piqued my curiosity. A psychologist I once talked to about such things suggested to me that dom(me)/sub interests may come from simple childhood experiences that have to do with relationships but not success/career in life -- you might, as she put it, have been more than usually interested in playing horsie with your sisters, perhaps because of the sheer delight they had in it (children can express sheer delight so openly and beautifully, it is easy to see why some people just want to spoil them), and your happiness at seeing their delight, thus creating a pattern. This can in principle happen for both sides, i.e. the "horsie" may enjoy the pleasure the little girl has while riding him, or the "rider" may enjoy the pleasure the little boy has while being ridden. (Same with reversed genders for other kinds of play, e.g., playing doctor.) This may lead to a pattern of enjoyment that, by the time you hit puberty, has recontextualized what might otherwise be bullying behavior by the dom(me) and/or self-harming behavior by the sub as sexy and arousing, and, as the people in question grow as people and learn more about feelings and bonds and consent and safety, may lead to a fully adult dom(me)/sub sexuality.

If that is how it happens, then this has in principle nothing to do with wanting to achieve goals in life and work and career, and/or wanting to have decision-making power in social structures (this has more to do, I think, with wanting to "create" and "amaze" others by your feats and deeds; it's more related to Jung's notion of the hero's journey, and it's also were things like "introvert/extrovert" belong: is the world your oyster, where you can act and do amazing things, or is it a threat that you have to protect yourself against?). The good/evil dimension tweaks this by making, say, "revenge / control over others" (usually a way of fencing off insecurities) or "protection / care of others" (usually a way of attracting validation) be one of the major goals. The interaction with the sexual preferences act comes when one realizes that sex is also a way to seek validation, and also a possible means of pursuing revenge/control and/or "defeating" insecurities; but it is not a direct connection, and all kinds of intricate relationships between these axes (good/evil or "morality," dom(me)/sub or "sexual power" -- a subset of "sexuality," and self-defense/self-affirmation or "self-actualization") can in principle be imagined.

Say, a character who is "introvert" (the world is a threat, I'm better off defending myself against it), but also a "dom" (I like to achieve pleasure via the pleasure of those I control) and "good" (I care about how others feel about themselves and the world, I care about them achieving their goals and growing, and I take this seriously into account when deciding how to pursue my goals). Or a character who is "extrovert/heroic" (the world is mine to conquer; I have something big to do, to contribute, to bring forth) but also a "sub" (I like to achieve pleasure via the pleasure of those who play with me as they see fit) and "evil" (I don't ultimately care about others and how they feel about themselves and the world; I don't ultimately care about their growth, or if they achieve their own goals or not, and if I think it's necessary for my goals to prevent them from achieving their goals then I will do exactly that). The latter two traits may seem contradictory, but actually aren't (I feel pleasure through the pleasure of others when using me, but I don't ultimately care about their growth or goals, especially if mine are at stake).

Such characters (and characters with other combinations of traits), and their interactions, would be a very interesting thing to see in games.

Or so it seems to me so far in life. In case I'm not just speculating nonsense. :)
 
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asehpe

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[...] if a dominant female (ok just definitely thinking of myself here) saw the submissive bedroom behavior first, I might have a hard time separating this so easily from seeing a strong man in normal day to day life, but seeing it in the reverse -- strong exterior first -- and then discovering the submissive sexual nature might be easier for some strange reason.[...]
My guess is: because it would seem to you that the guy you saw first as a strong dominant man in normal life was somehow, at some level, putting up some sort of façade, and that his essence "really" is the subby behavior you saw later in the bedroom -- i.e., it would be easier for you to go from façade to "real self" as that is how we usually get to know people, first as façades / social personae and then only later in intimacy / as "real selves". The opposite path -- from "real self" to façade -- is a rarer experience in normal life.
 

asehpe

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Sexuality is a product of myriad factors, distributed over the several decades of an average human life, alternately clashing or merging with each other to produce behaviours that are then identified as weird fetishes or normal sexuality. I see no reason to believe in submissive and dominant "personalities", nor an invariant sexuality emergent of them. What matters when it comes to understanding sexual behaviour is the broader context of the person's life, the actual conditions which they are thrust into and which are always in flux.
True, but this doesn't prevent the existance of "strange attractors" here and there that work as points of convergence. Words like "vanilla" or "dom" or "sub" are approximations, but they are damn useful ones, and there must be a reason for that. (Theories of personality types, as opposed to traits, are very controversial in experimental psychology, or so I've heard, but clusters of traits seem to still have validity.)
 
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