RPGM Completed Karryn's Prison [v1.3.1.33 FULL + DLCs] [Remtairy]

[Purple_Heart]

The beautiful part here is that everything makes sense and is logical, but you need to fail first before realizing this. Most game mechanics are explained by the guards in the break room and the prisoners in the mess hall and courtyard. Core stats are explained really well when you look at the edicts that improve the growth rate.

The only real issues for new players are the decreasing subsidies when your order is high (again, this is logical if you think about it) and not specializing in a certain stat (also logical, since you'd be mediocre at everything). And of course also the fact that autosave is on by default when you play on normal difficulty. That's the only thing I find truly annoying about this game, but you can make manual backups of your saves throughout the game.

You're assuming I'm new to the game, I didn't the complete the game AND I didn't read a few poorly written "explainations" that can be found by talking to npc's. That's lots of assumptions.

There's no excuse for the lack of information. If it is all by design, it is a bad design that deserves all the negativity it gets.
If I was making a turn based strategy game, the first thing I do would be creating an easy to read ui that has lots of information, especially turn order.
If I was making a game with lots of management options like this game has(edicts) I'd make sure they have exact descriptions of what they do in order to NOT leave the player playing the guessing game.

None of this is excusable, play any other turn based strategy game and see how they work. Go ahead and play xcom 2 for example. See how that game explains everything perfectly and has no bs hidden mechanics. Perfectly clear base management, perfectly clear combat. Nothing is hidden. If you lose it's your fault. If you lose in karryn's prison it's either because you didn't know what happened due to lack of information(example: stacked negative passives without knowing why) or game decided it is time for you to lose by spawning a rare powerful enemy. You rarely lose because it is your fault, which isn't fun at all.

 

[Nazzar]

-snip-

Where to start...Ok for the most obvious, images can in no way show items equipped or game difficulty. For all i know, you slapped some accessories then removed them after the fight, and I have no way to know how many tries it took you. Or played secretary. But thats neither here nor there.

Moving on, I cant help notice you are missing 1100 starting gold. You wouldnt happen to have used them for edicts that will help with this *specific* fight would you...?

There is a reason i said

To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish

Because no one in their right mind, intending to play normally would start the game buying items and skills specifically directed for the entirely inconsequential and optional event of fighting in the bar. No, the smart thing anyone would do is shore up their financial situation with -expense and +income edicts.
And that's *not* what you did, is it?
The point was simulating an actual run, like mine, whose success - by all accounts - you severely hampered by opting for day 1 combat purchases. Its not a playthrough you ever intended to finish, which invalidates the whole premise of the experiment.

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it is impossible

...you are just wanking to the sound of your keystrokes with this one. And again, you are completely missing the idea. Barfight can be done day 1. Just not even close to reliably enough, so that one would risk actually doing it in a run, you'd intend to finish.

 

[gzrtjhgtyhjljk]

Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts. If you don't buy the +10 Acc. Items, which makes sence in a Aspring Hero Challenge Run, you need to have staying power. So being able to replenish Energy is a must. Now ofc I would still not fight in the Bar. It only takes a bad roll with a red Thug to ruin your day.

A sensible strategy and probably the only strategy that's close to being viable on day 1.

But I'm going to call bullshit too because you have 1 corruption. You only get corruption from buying accessories (which you can't because you don't have edict points left), from fighting the guards near the office (the chances of you having a nice rounded 900 gold in both screenshots after that fight are one in a billion) and certain edicts (which you can't buy because you have no points left). Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm pretty sure those are all the sources of corruption in the game.

 

[Neriel]

Where to start...Ok for the most obvious, images can in no way show items equipped or game difficulty. For all i know, you slapped some accessories then removed them after the fight, *or* how many tries it took you. But thats neither here nor there.

Oh yeah, because the very obvious Corruption 1 doesn't clearly show, that I didn't buy a single Acc. Item. Or the -9 in Control doesn't show, that it is Prisoner Mode with the insane - in income I have. Now with the tries... look I really don't care. It is clear, that you will question everything anyway, even if evidence slaps you in the face and since I cannot prove that it was first try, think what you want.

Moving on, I cant help notice you are missing 1100 starting gold. You wouldnt happen to have used them for edicts that will help with this *specific* fight would you...?

My first day I always go for Edicts that improve my fighting ability. Normally that would be 2 Acc. Items with +10 Agi and +10 Dex to make fights easier. So same Story here. Just that I go for Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts. I don't worry too much about money, since the main income will happen anyways at the start from low Order and farming money on the First Floor, not because of Edicts.

There is a reason i said
Because no one in their right mind, intending to play normally would start the game buying items and skills specifically directed for the entirely inconsequential and optional event of fighting in the bar. No, the smart thing anyone would do is shore up their financial situation with -expense and +income edicts.
And that's *not* what you did, is it?
The point was simulating an actual run, like mine, whose success - by all accounts - you severely hampered by opting for day 1 combat purchases. Its not a playthrough you ever intended to finish, which invalidates the whole premise of the experiment.


...you are just wanking to the sound of your keystrokes now.

Well maybe then you are doing something wrong? Or maybe, just maybe, there are more ways to play the game. Crazy thought. It is actually kinda funny, that somebody like you, comes at me like this. If you would have been here a few months people would have said to you, the things you are doing are impossible on Prisoner Mode since you need x Titles. You are actually good enough to beat Prisoner Mode without the help of NG+ but at the same time, somehow are very limited in your viewpoint. I never start with fixing my Income right away. I focus on making fights as easy as possible, to make farming on the First Floor easy. So yes, I was simulating how I would start a run like that. Ok I would not fight in the Bar, since it is still a risk that you don't have to take but that would be hard to do in an argument, that is about beating the Bar Day 1.

 

[Neriel]

A sensible strategy and probably the only strategy that's close to being viable on day 1.

But I'm going to call bullshit too because you have 1 corruption. You only get corruption from buying accessories (which you can't because you don't have edict points left), from fighting the guards near the office (the chances of you having a nice rounded 900 gold in both screenshots after that fight are one in a billion) and certain edicts (which you can't buy because you have no points left). Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm pretty sure those are all the sources of corruption in the game.

You always start with 1 Corruption.

 

[Nazzar]

It only takes a bad roll with a red Thug to ruin your day.

Its weird to see you acknowledge this, as the general impression i got was that you hold undisputed dominion over all things RNG.

Ok I would not fight in the Bar, since it is still a risk that you don't have to take but that woudl be hard to do in an argument, that is about beating the Bar Day 1.

That was the point of the exercise. The inconsequential barfight can be done day 1. Just not even remotely close to reliably enough, so that anyone would risk actually doing it in a serious prisoner run one intends to finish.

I never start with fixing my Income right away. I focus on making fights as easy as possible, to make farming on the First Floor easy

Those 2 sentences seem self-contradictory; how do you go about making fights easy without the bank to buy edicts or items?
Best long-term planning day1 start for any difficulty is firing the imperial guards, taking "self-paid equipment" edict then going to bed.
And that, ill fight anyone on.

 

[Neriel]

That was the point of the exercise. The inconsequential barfight can be done day 1. Just not even remotely close to reliably enough, so that anyone would risk actually doing it in a serious prisoner run one intends to finish.

You can beat the bar fight 1st day on Prisoner and no accessories?

Ok, I said how and why your magical, threading the razor's edge 19-29-39-49 Prisoner herobook, no losses, no halberd, armor or stat upgrades, all in one shot strains believability, and then i dropped it, but this one i will call you out on - you are full of it.
And im not talking about trying it until it eventually works out, no.
To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish. No re-tries, obv.
Your words: Prisoner. Day1. No accessories. Go for it, champ.

You called me out and I did it. Also I can repeat that feat. The only issue can be, if red Thugs appear as an example. So I can beat the Bar on Day 1. But just because I can, doesn't mean I would do it in a serious run, since it is a risk, that I will not take in a serious run. My original point was never "Hey I always go for Bar Day 1 in my runs!" I said

I can fight in the Bar 1st Day and not lose.

And that is what I did after you were calling me out on it. So can we just leave it be now. Talking about strategies is at least interesting but this is getting tiresome of getting called out on everything.

Those 2 sentences seem self-contradictory; how do you go about making fights easy without the bank to buy edicts or items?
Best long-term planning day1 start for any difficulty is firing the imperial guards, taking "self-paid equipment" edict then going to bed.
And that, ill fight anyone on.

To repeat myself. I make the fights easy, by buying the +10 Acc. Items for Agi/Dex (or in the Challenge Run you did Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts). After that I don't need any Fighting Edicts anymore since I am strong enough to farm on the First Floor. Prisoners and Goblins are easy enemies on the First Floor. The only dangerous enemy are Thugs and they only spawn in specific rooms.

And look, you can play however you want but why would I start with those 2 Edicts and go to bed? I would just be wasting a Day that I can train Karryn. And the gain would be what? 200 Gold? Well let's say 400 since Day 2 is only 1 Edict. Do your runs depend so much on those extra 400 Gold? And I am actually curious, because I like talking about strats so this is not meant in any disrespectful way, before somebody calls me out again.

 

[fdgftrtrwr]

View attachment 1873399
Can someone tell me how to fix this i have this problem and i dont know how to fix this

Is it Lenovo y580?

 

[Tw@Computers]

Which is the canon ending? if it's the pure one that would be an interesting twist

 

[Nazzar]

And look, you can play however you want but why would I start with those 2 Edicts and go to bed? I would just be wasting a Day that I can train Karryn. And the gain would be what? 200 Gold? Well let's say 400 since Day 2 is only 1 Edict. Do your runs depend so much on those extra 400 Gold? And I am actually curious, because I like talking about strats so this is not meant in any disrespectful way, before somebody calls me out again.

The going to bed isnt because you cant fight the first packs. Its because its detrimental to do so. Staggering floors 1 and 2 are your best bet to shore up you financial stability before the shitstorm that follows after clearing floors 2 and 3 at which point you are threatened with 2 riots/day. (which - again - "Riot chance arrow up/down" does jack for helping me plan out and resembles nothing close to how a proper risk management mechanic should be.)

In "training" your karyn so early on, you gain order, thus delaying the crucial sub 35 subsidiary breakpoint. The going to bed without fighting is to expedite getting to these lower levels. I continue with income increasing edicts and rest with no fighting unti day 4, where order is dropped to a safe, but very profitable 33. You can even let it fall to 15 for maximum gold gain, as long as you have the kitchen edict still ready for use, just in case.

Then, I start training on the first 2 packs of enemies, ever so slightly pushing order up, but not beyond the breakpoint, while getting stat increases. It takes no mathematician to calculate that - as opposed to your way - you'd not only lose on the day 1 +200gold, youd lose gold on day 2 because of only 1 edict allowed. And you'll probably have something more pertinent to do in day3, so it snowballs to alot more potential income lost.

In addition, you lose even more gold because you push your order higher by training so early, in a way youd never get your subsidiary breakpoints to their optimally beneficial levels for the floor. I use the first 2 floors to shore up my financial stability, because thats the only reliably safe point to do so.
Thats why in my "aspiring hero" save, i have full halberd strengthen+specialization upgrades going into the final boss, whereas you have 0 and no infrastructure to speak of.

I do not say "mathematically xxx" just as a phrase. I take a very clinical approach in any and all things, once i set my mind to do them proper. And out of all approaches the one i described for day1 wins over the alternatives, easy.

 

[Neriel]

The going to bed isnt because you cant fight the first packs. Its because its detrimental to do so. Staggering floors 1 and 2 are your best bet to shore up you financial stability before the shitstorm that follows after clearing floors 2 and 3 at which point you are threatened with 2 riots/day. (which - again - "Riot chance arrow up/down" does jack for helping me plan out and resembles nothing close to how a proper risk management mechanic should be.)

Well I actually agree with everything here said. With the exeption of that it is detrimental to fight Day 1 but we will get to that.

In "training" your karyn so early on, you gain order, thus delaying the crucial sub 35 subsidiary breakpoint. The going to bed without fighting is to expedite getting to these lower levels. I continue with income increasing edicts and rest with no fighting unti day 4, where order is dropped to a safe, but very profitable 33.

Well I can already tell, that you cannot stay to long on the First Floor if you on purpose let your Order fall that quick. My idea of farming is, to stay as long as possible on the First Floor to farm there as much as possible. So I need to keep Order at the start higher, so when the Control Penalty hits I can farm longer. Sure you are getting a head start but not so sure, if you actually come out with a + compared to me after leaving the First Floor, since I stay a long time on the First Floor. Would be interesting to know, which is more money effective.

Then, I start training on the first 2 packs of enemies, ever so slightly pushing order up, but not beyond the breakpoint, while getting stat increases. It takes no mathematician to calculate that - as opposed to your way - you'd not only lose on the day 1 +200gold, youd lose gold on day 2 because of only 1 edict allowed, in addition to losing gold because you push your order higher by training so early, in a way youd never get your subsidiary breakpoints to their optimally beneficial levels for the floor. I use the first 2 floors to shore up my financial stability, because thats the only reliably safe point to do so.
Thats why in aspiring hero save, i have full halberd strengthen+specialization upgrades going into the final boss, whereas you have 0.

Same point as before. I stay longer on the First Floor compared to you, so who knows, who makes more money.

I did not say "mathematically xxx" just as a phrase before. Im very clinical in any and all things, once i set my mind to do them proper. And out of all approaches the one i described for day1 wins over the alternatives, easy.

Easy over other alternatives? Nah, but always nice to see different approches working.

 

[Assassin3]

True, but this is a prison where the inmates apparently are all armed. So...?

Armed? I don't recall it mentioned anywhere in game or even on this thread that inmates were armed with weapons. Unless they have a gun point towards her head a little fucking shiv isn't gonna be enough to threaten her to obey their every command. We r talking about Karryn here, where she doesn't end up like a little weak bitch through out the entire game.

 

[Nazzar]

Well I can already tell, that you cannot stay to long on the First Floor if you on purpose let your Order fall that quick.
I stay longer on the First Floor compared to you, so who knows, who makes more money.

I stay on floor 1 and 2 up until *and* including the first day that goes over the limit and increases control loss by 1. So that cant be true, unless you deliberately stay on the same floor for days on end after your time limit, deliberately losing massive amounts of control points, for some unfathomable reason

I can and I have maintained order at 15 for maximum gold gain/day, and kept kitchen+guard edicts still ready for use as a backup, in case fighting isnt enough to push it. Which i can afford because of the surplus gold i have. So i still stand behind firing imperials, cutting costs and going to bed is the best deal one can take day1.

 

[Neriel]

I stay on floor 1 and 2 up until *and* including the first day that goes over the limit and increases control loss by 1. So thats not true, unless by some unfathomable reason you deliberately stay on the same floor for days on end after your time limit.

I can, and have, let order drop to 15 for maximum gold gain/day, and keep kitchen+guard edicts still ready for use as a backup, in case fighting isnt enough to push it. Which i can afford because of the surplus gold i have.

Yes, that is what I do on the first Floor. And why is it an unfathomable reason, to farm longer on the 1st Floor now? 1st Floor are no Riots, so I can let Order fall as low as I want because I don't have to worry a Riot happening, until the Point in which I would lose the game. Doesn't matter if I have a Control penalty of -10 and lose 20 Order a Day. If I have 25 Order, then I know, I can farm another day. Then I get Kitchen to extend that period just a bit longer. Then I proceed to the Boss on a Day, in which I only have 1 Edict point, so I have 2 Edict Points on the Second Floor right away for important purchases.

deliberately losing massive amounts of control points, for some unfathomable reason

You do know, that the Control Penalty resets, when you enter a new Floor? So why would that be a problem?

 

[Nazzar]

I dont want to crunch the actual numbers to prove it, but I assure you, maintaining a 15 order as of day 6 (until which point, youve only been selecting financial imrovements), with smart usage of control edicts earns you a massive net gain, as opposed to entering time limit control loss with combat edicts, having maintained ~60 order at that point (which is an overall severe loss in subsidiaries multiplier), so you can afford staying 4-5 extra days over me - again at a lower subsidiary multiplier - until you are forced out of the floor.

 

[Assassin3]

You can beat the bar fight 1st day on Prisoner and no accessories?

Ok, I said how and why your magical, threading the razor's edge 19-29-39-49 Prisoner herobook, no losses, no halberd, armor or stat upgrades, all in one shot strains believability, and then i dropped it, but this one i will call you out on - you are full of it.
And im not talking about trying it until it eventually works out, no.
To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish. No re-tries, obv.
Your words: Prisoner. Day1. No accessories. Go for it, champ.

I can backup on Neriel's claim on this one. Did it on the first try on prisoner mode, day 1 and without accessories. Possibly could've came down to RNG but I wouldn't know cause it was my first time attempting the bar fight on day 1. Take my word or don't, idc.

And about avoiding the Thugs.

Since when I started playing the game for the first time I've always avoided the inmates in the bar cause Karryn herself fucking said so when she enters the bar for the first time. In which at that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

 

[Sepheyer]

I can backup on Neriel's claim on this one. Did it on the first try on prisoner mode, day 1 and without accessories. Possibly could've came down to RNG but I wouldn't know cause it was my first time attempting the bar fight on day 1. Take my word or don't, idc.

And about avoiding the Thugs.

Since when I started playing the game for the first time I've always avoided the inmates in the bar cause Karryn herself fucking said so every time she enters the bar for the first time. In which that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

Thanks for the tip. I am one of those people on whom the option to pass through the bar was completely lost. I read the dialog, yet such nuance didnt register at all.

Welp, good to know.

Spoiler: Illustration

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[Neriel]

I dont want to crunch the actual numbers to prove it, but I assure you, maintaining a 15 order as of day 6 (until which point, youve only been selecting financial imrovements), with smart usage of control edicts earns you a massive net gain, as opposed to entering time limit control loss with combat edicts, having maintained ~60 order at that point (which is an overall severe loss in subsidiaries multiplier), so you can afford staying 4-5 extra days over me - again at a lower subsidiary multiplier - until you are forced out of the floor.

I would say more to almost 10 Extra Days with also almost 15 Extra Edicts. Also again. I only get Combat Edicts First Day. Not every Day.

 

[gzrtjhgtyhjljk]

I can backup on Neriel's claim on this one. Did it on the first try on prisoner mode, day 1 and without accessories. Possibly could've came down to RNG but I wouldn't know cause it was my first time attempting the bar fight on day 1. Take my word or don't, idc.

And about avoiding the Thugs.

Since when I started playing the game for the first time I've always avoided the inmates in the bar cause Karryn herself fucking said so every time she enters the bar for the first time. In which that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

I tested it as well. I bought the two edicts Neriel recommended, fought the two enemies on the way to the bar to level up a bit. I started the fight with no debuffs and level 3 character. The bar fight was 5 waves, with a total of 3 thugs. Karryn got knocked down several times, but there was no issue during the first 4 waves to use healing thoughts and revitalize. The fifth wave was the hardest. This thug knocked Karryn down several times and I had to use the two stances a bunch of times to get rid of the cooldown on revitalize. But in the end it wasn't that hard and I doubt that bad RNG will give you an unwinnable fight. I ended up with 30% pleasure and way more fatigue than Neriel.

One sidenote: not recommended for a serious playthrough because you take a massive load of fatigue.

 

[Nazzar]

I would say more to almost 10 Extra Days with also almost 15 Extra Edicts. Also again. I only get Combat Edicts First Day. Not every Day.

If you can afford going almost 10 extra days into the rapidly increasing control loss time limit, that means you went in with a greater order than ~60. Which snowballs into you having essentially no subsidiary income until that point.
Subsidiary increases arent flat numbers: the gain from going 75->50 order is proportionately far less than the one you get going 50->25. Your saving grace is having the extra edicts, but thats a questionable benefit with limited resources to spend them on.
The fact that i managed to maintain some infrastructure, *and* afford having both halberd tech trees maxed should serve as a point in favor of my method of financial management.

that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

...Whom are you even addressing? I hope its not me, as that'd mean you quoted that one paragraph out of context and read nothing before or beyond that.
Again:

I never fought the bar enemies in any of my games. Dont know why this became a narrative as i never once mentioned the bar.
More importantly, the game - in a very rare show of courtesy - actually *tells you* not to fight the bar when you first enter, so I wouldn't actually have grounds to say anything in the first place. The 2 thugs were located in the rooms above, part of a 3wave, using a basic prisoner sprite

I dont know why everyone keeps mentioning the bar fight, as i never once said "bar" in my initial run summary. The basis of the experiment was that no one intending a serious prisoner run - much less a challenge one - would ever fight the in the bar day1, assuming the more than likely failure there wouldnt be re-doable and youd have to finish the run as-is. And no one took that up. Instead everyone went for specific edicts and/or items targeted towards that particular fight and beelined for the bar, never intending to continue the game, which invalidates the whole premise.