ponyguy

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Feb 12, 2017
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Sierra asked for more time to deliver bigger updates. Sierra is, by her own admission, diverting that time she asked for, not for developing new updates, but for rehashing old content for a minority of patreons (100 out of 1100) who pay ~%35 of Hreinn's income.
This leaves ~65% of the patreons with nothing to show for their support.
Yeah, but nothing has changed. They just admitted it. I always assumed they first devoted their time to the Patreon rewards and then focused on the game. Even when they tried to do everything within a month. I'm sure Nomo didn't draw all those art packs in a matter of minutes. It probably took him quite a bit of time. Time that could've been spent drawing more in-game scenes. But they gotta reward the high tier Patrons first. It's only fair.
Do I have a problem with the Patron rewards being unavailable if you missed them? Hell yeah.
Do I have a problem with them focusing on the rewards first and the game second? No. Not at all.
 
Q

Q

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Sierra never said rewrites would take this much time. Read her post from the 22nd. She says the $25 tier still diverts their attention from 4.0.
( "...we are currently splitting our attentions between working on 0.4.0 and finishing the special non-canon scene variants for $25+ tiers. The latter is not a trivial add-on: it involves a large amount of entirely new art and writing...").
Considering 3.0 released on the seventh, that marks 15 days during which we know for sure their attention was split. And there is still not a word from them about having finished it.

Also, art packs are made mostly from high resolution in-game assets and not just new art. Currently, it is better for patreons who give them $15 monthly to just stop and pledge $25 every time they release that content. They have to wait a few days but get more scenes and a $5 discount.

More time did not translate into more content. This may not bother you, but it sure as hell is the reason why I stopped pledging to her.
 

johndoe1545

Resident Head-Patters
Moderator
Donor
May 5, 2017
2,471
5,067
just leave it... if you complaining, just stop your support if you are a patreon... well imma poor fag so i cant complain much... as long they dont go MIA like wootch or breakup like breeding season and turn it to milk machine like cloud meadow then i cool with it
 

ponyguy

Engaged Member
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Feb 12, 2017
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Also, art packs are made mostly from high resolution in-game assets and not just new art. Currently, it is better for patreons who give them $15 monthly to just stop and pledge $25 every time they release that content. They have to wait a few days but get more scenes and a $5 discount.

More time did not translate into more content. This may not bother you, but it sure as hell is the reason why I stopped pledging to her.
Yeah, but there was also new shit in the art packs. I remember there was some images of Riven in a cat outfit that were never used in the game, not counting that one lame ending. Now they've just increased the amount of content in the Patreon rewards. So obviously it's gonna take longer.
I don't know. This is a re-write of the bar scene from the second update. And we saw how long that took and how little scenes there were. Maybe that scene is just cursed. XD

That's fair, man. Honestly, I can't blame you for that. It's a lot of money to give. I probably wouldn't bother donating either unless I knew I was gonna be able to spend 25 bucks every month. At least that way I get the sweet extras. The lower tiers are not really worth it.
 
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Lynn

Member
May 21, 2017
287
497
Sierra is, by her own admission, diverting that time she asked for, not for developing new updates, but for rehashing old content for a minority of patreons (100 out of 1100) who pay ~%35 of Hreinn's income.
Yes, they're focusing on their high tier patreons. What else is new. I'm pretty sure it is said on their page that the more you pledge, the more you should expect to receive. And if those guys indeed represent 35% of their income, then you don't have to be a genius to figure out why they'd get some "special attention".

I mean, not even sure what it is you're critizing at this point. The rule of Patreon should always be "give money if you're willing to give money", not "buy stuff that hasn't even been made yet". If you're looking for a good deal, you're in the wrong market. If you want to complain about updates taking time, then you should simply not pledge in the first place. I don't see how any of this is meant to be surprising.

From my understanding, there are two people working on this, and with a team this size, the amount of money you receive does not improve the speed of an update. If you want to talk about DarkCookies, it can to a certain degree, because he had plans to hire a team to release updates faster (and that team is also limited and cannot do impossible things just because it is called a "team" and it is made of "more people"). But each unite of money that is being given does not automatically improve the process, you're still talking about PEOPLE making the game. It's as if people expect that the more money you make, the better a magician you're getting. Even YouTube or Facebook can experience a massive crash despite the amount of (probably talented and qualified) people working on these websites and the huge amount of money they're making.
Bottom line is you should not believe that your money will be making a difference. If you're pledging because you think it's a direct impact on the process, then you're wrong. If you're pledging only for the sake of the rewards, then you either have a lot of money to spend or you don't value it as much as you could. Pledge = "thank you", and sometimes they will thank you for that "thank you". That's all it this.

And your approach of the "diverted attention" is... kind of cute, to be honest. Do you think this is somehow measurable? Like Sierra has decided to retrieve her maximum attention and then reorganize it to be unbalanced? Man, I wish I knew how to do that, like some sort of, I don't know, computer?
Point is it doesn't mean much, and even if it did, you wouldn't know about it. All you're truly saying is that they have priorities, and that the priorities concerning their high-tier patreons are... high-tier. I think everyone knew what they would get or not when pledging, and if they didn't, it's probably their fault. I'm saying "probably" because I'm too lazy to check their pages, but I'm sure there's a description of what each tier will "grant" you (and it will also be presented as something wonderfully magical although being very not vital) and how much you need to pledge in order to reach a specific tier.

I don't know, I'm guessing this is part of the "Patreon is full of scammers" gimmick.
 
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Nomo

New Member
Game Developer
Jul 29, 2017
8
102
A few months ago I told you that if given more time, Sierra would divert it to something else.

Glad to see the users that were throwing shit at me are now playing dumb. These are the same users that will ONLY criticize this if they fail to find someone who will upload it for free.
Q I am not sure what your problem is with us, but it seems you have some very personal issues and dislike towards us that is reflected in every comment you do on our game/s and going into lengths of working with very limited information or cherry picking comments to make us look as bad as much you can.
Now I am far from the idea that everyone will like us, but when you put so much effort into trying to attack us, I feel the need to step in and show where you are making things up.

Now to start from your first comment and screenshot, you highlight the part where we talk about the packs taking time, which they indeed do. You seem to however completely ignore
'In other news, we are currently splitting our attentions between working on 0.4.0 '
This isn't just a random statement, we have not been taking all our time till now just working on packs as you seem to claim, which of course you cant know, and it is actually written that we didn't. The part I quoted is reflective of us having a lot of effort and work put in setting up the next update, we created lore/art for two new characters that will be appearing and a new background and its lore/role as a centre piece of the next update.
So you ignoring that statement completely is very frustrating when it means so much as workload.

And of course, the same "What's your point?" rhetoric exactly you were giving months ago. Ignore the criticism. Answer as if personally attacked. As pointed on the screenshot, these are scenes. Not just art packs. 1000 from Hreinn's 1100 patreons are gated from this content regardless of how much they have pledged during development. These people represent about 60% of Hreinn's income.
This is false on the grounds that our 15$ backers also got an art pack the same time our 25$+ did too. The pack I had to create, extract and resize to be able to upload included 186 files in more than triple the resolution in game.

Sierra asked for more time to deliver bigger updates. Sierra is, by her own admission, diverting that time she asked for, not for developing new updates, but for rehashing old content for a minority of patreons (100 out of 1100) who pay ~%35 of Hreinn's income.
This leaves ~65% of the patreons with nothing to show for their support.
As I said above, you are completely wrong, we send rewards to multiple tiers, and we also have been working on a lot more than just the variants you seem to be only focusing on. This isn't secret knowledge or anything, you can easily check the full post and not cherry pick one part or just read our tier reward descriptions.

Sierra never said rewrites would take this much time. Read her post from the 22nd. She says the $25 tier still diverts their attention from 4.0.

Considering 3.0 released on the seventh, that marks 15 days during which we know for sure their attention was split. And there is still not a word from them about having finished it.

Also, art packs are made mostly from high resolution in-game assets and not just new art. Currently, it is better for patreons who give them $15 monthly to just stop and pledge $25 every time they release that content. They have to wait a few days but get more scenes and a $5 discount.

More time did not translate into more content. This may not bother you, but it sure as hell is the reason why I stopped pledging to her.
Once we released on the 7th, we didn't just take a break, the amount of work needed after we release an update is something huge and very taxing. You seem to imply that after that point we had the free time to just do variants, but after a game is released both publicly and patron only and the amount of attention we have to give the questions and comments fills up most of our days. We have gotten more than 500 personal messages we had to respond to since then, the rest we have been responding to are in public posts/forums you can check for yourself or in our discord server. This is also amount of work that is easily ignored when your focus on what we do is so limited.
As said above 15$ patrons get their own exclusive content, early game release and votes/suggestions on a patron pick scene post, so no they aren't somehow ignored as you claim.

Another big thing that did delay us somewhat was this though, that you seem to also be ignoring from the post :


We did spend a lot of time reaching out and talking to the other devs and patreon staff to comply with their guidelines as best as we can and clean comments and posts.

Now I don't expect this to change your mind, you seem very one directional focused in your dislike towards us, so I expect you will keep trying to do that in the future, so my comment is mainly focused on the people here who do appreciate the work we put in the game day and night to satisfy all our players. And we do love what we do, and reading the positive comments here after the release, has been very motivating.

Finally you also seem to have been a patron and regret it, so if you contact us in patreon, I will check the amount you pledged to us and refund it for you. There is no need for you to give us your hard earned money if you dislike us so much, so I am completely fine in doing that.
 

Wolfe Tone

Newbie
May 11, 2017
62
89
This is false on the grounds that our 15$ backers also got an art pack the same time our 25$+ did too. The pack I had to create, extract and resize to be able to upload included 186 files in more than triple the resolution in game.
Your artwork is pretty banging, I must say.
 
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jande21

I AM THE LAW
Respected User
Former Staff
Oct 19, 2016
2,649
30,578
Q I am not sure what your problem is with us, but it seems you have some very personal issues and dislike towards us that is reflected in every comment you do on our game/s and going into lengths of working with very limited information or cherry picking comments to make us look as bad as much you can.
Now I am far from the idea that everyone will like us, but when you put so much effort into trying to attack us, I feel the need to step in and show where you are making things up.

Now to start from your first comment and screenshot, you highlight the part where we talk about the packs taking time, which they indeed do. You seem to however completely ignore
'In other news, we are currently splitting our attentions between working on 0.4.0 '
This isn't just a random statement, we have not been taking all our time till now just working on packs as you seem to claim, which of course you cant know, and it is actually written that we didn't. The part I quoted is reflective of us having a lot of effort and work put in setting up the next update, we created lore/art for two new characters that will be appearing and a new background and its lore/role as a centre piece of the next update.
So you ignoring that statement completely is very frustrating when it means so much as workload.



This is false on the grounds that our 15$ backers also got an art pack the same time our 25$+ did too. The pack I had to create, extract and resize to be able to upload included 186 files in more than triple the resolution in game.



As I said above, you are completely wrong, we send rewards to multiple tiers, and we also have been working on a lot more than just the variants you seem to be only focusing on. This isn't secret knowledge or anything, you can easily check the full post and not cherry pick one part or just read our tier reward descriptions.



Once we released on the 7th, we didn't just take a break, the amount of work needed after we release an update is something huge and very taxing. You seem to imply that after that point we had the free time to just do variants, but after a game is released both publicly and patron only and the amount of attention we have to give the questions and comments fills up most of our days. We have gotten more than 500 personal messages we had to respond to since then, the rest we have been responding to are in public posts/forums you can check for yourself or in our discord server. This is also amount of work that is easily ignored when your focus on what we do is so limited.
As said above 15$ patrons get their own exclusive content, early game release and votes/suggestions on a patron pick scene post, so no they aren't somehow ignored as you claim.

Another big thing that did delay us somewhat was this though, that you seem to also be ignoring from the post :


We did spend a lot of time reaching out and talking to the other devs and patreon staff to comply with their guidelines as best as we can and clean comments and posts.

Now I don't expect this to change your mind, you seem very one directional focused in your dislike towards us, so I expect you will keep trying to do that in the future, so my comment is mainly focused on the people here who do appreciate the work we put in the game day and night to satisfy all our players. And we do love what we do, and reading the positive comments here after the release, has been very motivating.

Finally you also seem to have been a patron and regret it, so if you contact us in patreon, I will check the amount you pledged to us and refund it for you. There is no need for you to give us your hard earned money if you dislike us so much, so I am completely fine in doing that.
Hey Nomo, love your art!
 
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ponyguy

Engaged Member
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Feb 12, 2017
3,315
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Q I am not sure what your problem is with us, but it seems you have some very personal issues and dislike towards us that is reflected in every comment you do on our game/s and going into lengths of working with very limited information or cherry picking comments to make us look as bad as much you can.
Now I am far from the idea that everyone will like us, but when you put so much effort into trying to attack us, I feel the need to step in and show where you are making things up.

Now to start from your first comment and screenshot, you highlight the part where we talk about the packs taking time, which they indeed do. You seem to however completely ignore
'In other news, we are currently splitting our attentions between working on 0.4.0 '
This isn't just a random statement, we have not been taking all our time till now just working on packs as you seem to claim, which of course you cant know, and it is actually written that we didn't. The part I quoted is reflective of us having a lot of effort and work put in setting up the next update, we created lore/art for two new characters that will be appearing and a new background and its lore/role as a centre piece of the next update.
So you ignoring that statement completely is very frustrating when it means so much as workload.



This is false on the grounds that our 15$ backers also got an art pack the same time our 25$+ did too. The pack I had to create, extract and resize to be able to upload included 186 files in more than triple the resolution in game.



As I said above, you are completely wrong, we send rewards to multiple tiers, and we also have been working on a lot more than just the variants you seem to be only focusing on. This isn't secret knowledge or anything, you can easily check the full post and not cherry pick one part or just read our tier reward descriptions.



Once we released on the 7th, we didn't just take a break, the amount of work needed after we release an update is something huge and very taxing. You seem to imply that after that point we had the free time to just do variants, but after a game is released both publicly and patron only and the amount of attention we have to give the questions and comments fills up most of our days. We have gotten more than 500 personal messages we had to respond to since then, the rest we have been responding to are in public posts/forums you can check for yourself or in our discord server. This is also amount of work that is easily ignored when your focus on what we do is so limited.
As said above 15$ patrons get their own exclusive content, early game release and votes/suggestions on a patron pick scene post, so no they aren't somehow ignored as you claim.

Another big thing that did delay us somewhat was this though, that you seem to also be ignoring from the post :


We did spend a lot of time reaching out and talking to the other devs and patreon staff to comply with their guidelines as best as we can and clean comments and posts.

Now I don't expect this to change your mind, you seem very one directional focused in your dislike towards us, so I expect you will keep trying to do that in the future, so my comment is mainly focused on the people here who do appreciate the work we put in the game day and night to satisfy all our players. And we do love what we do, and reading the positive comments here after the release, has been very motivating.

Finally you also seem to have been a patron and regret it, so if you contact us in patreon, I will check the amount you pledged to us and refund it for you. There is no need for you to give us your hard earned money if you dislike us so much, so I am completely fine in doing that.
Gasp! Glorious Nomo has graced us with his presence again.
 
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Q

Q

Guest
Guest
Hi Nomo. I will answer what I feel was most important about your message first. I address what you feel are personal issues and dislike towards you after that.

Now to start from your first comment and screenshot, you highlight the part where we talk about the packs taking time, which they indeed do. You seem to however completely ignore
'In other news, we are currently splitting our attentions between working on 0.4.0 '
This isn't just a random statement, we have not been taking all our time till now just working on packs as you seem to claim, which of course you cant know, and it is actually written that we didn't. The part I quoted is reflective of us having a lot of effort and work put in setting up the next update, we created lore/art for two new characters that will be appearing and a new background and its lore/role as a centre piece of the next update.
So you ignoring that statement completely is very frustrating when it means so much as workload.
I did not ignore the part where you stated you were splitting your time between the update and the art packs and new scenes. I questioned whether the amount of time spent on the latter was worth it for the 1000 patreons that don't pledge $25 in regards of what they get for the increased amount of time between actual updates. As you said in your post, rewriting and redrawing the game takes a considerable amount of time on its own. Art packs notwithstanding.


As pointed on the screenshot, these are scenes. Not just art packs. 1000 from Hreinn's 1100 patreons are gated from this content regardless of how much they have pledged during development. These people represent about 60% of Hreinn's income.
This is false on the grounds that our 15$ backers also got an art pack the same time our 25$+ did too. The pack I had to create, extract and resize to be able to upload included 186 files in more than triple the resolution in game.

Sierra asked for more time to deliver bigger updates. Sierra is, by her own admission, diverting that time she asked for, not for developing new updates, but for rehashing old content for a minority of patreons (100 out of 1100) who pay ~%35 of Hreinn's income.
This leaves ~65% of the patreons with nothing to show for their support.
As I said above, you are completely wrong, we send rewards to multiple tiers, and we also have been working on a lot more than just the variants you seem to be only focusing on. This isn't secret knowledge or anything, you can easily check the full post and not cherry pick one part or just read our tier reward descriptions.
I am merging these two parts to clarify that my criticism isn't about art packs, but about the scenes that get either rewritten, redrawn or both. Unless I am wrong, and somebody will make sure to tell me if I am, the latter ones aren't accessible to the $15 dollar patreons. Thus making it more profitable content-wise to donate $25 every two months instead of $15 every single one. An alternate scene has more value to a game than high resolution game assets, even if they are unused.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why I am making these criticisms on this forum is because I thought people would be more open to discuss them here than they were on Patreon. I made those points to Sierra in a respectful manner when I stopped pledging.
I was not expecting neither you nor her to ever come here. And had you been on this thread before I started commenting, I wouldn't have said anything in the first place.

I don't regret backing Sierra when I did. But I felt my criticisms where put in the same bag as the many toxic comments she got at the time and am sure you as a team still get. Not only by her but by other patreons, who didn't have a problem with her developing two or tree games at the same time and attacked anybody who felt otherwise. Just as it happens here.

But I don't dislike you, and I am not here to smear you, Sierra or Hreinn Games. If you honestly feel like my criticism does more harm than good, and that I am only out to damage you, then I will go voice them somewhere else.
 
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Apalos

Newbie
Oct 7, 2017
81
94
@Nomo
Nomo! I love your art and games! Same goes for Sierra! Although I must question your tastes in avatars...

Down with Rei! Asuka forever! :p

I kid, I kid, I love them both.

Since this thread seems to have caught your attention, which site do you prefer to interact with your fans? F95, pateron or discord? Or something else?
 
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ponyguy

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Feb 12, 2017
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Don't know what happened to this thread, but a new version has been out for a while.

0.3.4
Yeah, someone already posted it before, but no one's updated the OP yet.

Speaking of posting things: Seems like the high-tier Patron variants have been posted. And no link on 4chan from what I can tell. Ah well. The dream was nice while it lasted. :FeelsBadMan:
 

justapervert

Member
Jun 27, 2017
101
297
On hreinns uptade and patreons changes post the thumb nail of sabia wearing revealing clothes well i played tecnically most of the scenes but i never seen that before any clues?
 

TheMagister

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2016
1,171
1,484
On hreinns uptade and patreons changes post the thumb nail of sabia wearing revealing clothes well i played tecnically most of the scenes but i never seen that before any clues?
It's a variant of the scene that's only available to higher-level Patreons. They also very rarely get shared so don't get your hopes up or go begging everywhere for it.
 
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ponyguy

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Feb 12, 2017
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go begging everywhere for it.
I would actually stoop so low if I thought it would succeed. :(
Can't believe there's not a single corrupt generous individual among the high tier Patrons. What rotten luck.
 

Master Mirror

Member
May 11, 2017
204
288
I would actually stoop so low if I thought it would succeed. :(
Can't believe there's not a single corrupt generous individual among the high tier Patrons. What rotten luck.
Probably there are a few of those patrons and easy to spot if someone leaks it. :FeelsBadMan:
 
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ponyguy

Engaged Member
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Feb 12, 2017
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Probably there are a few of those patrons and easy to spot if someone leaks it. :FeelsBadMan:
I'm watching 4chan like a hawk. Still nothing. But I'm keeping hope alive. I keep telling myself ''Maybe I just missed it. It's out there and I just have to find it.'' Yeah, that's how it is. I gotta get it. I gotta. :pensive:
 
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