VN Ren'Py Knockout Master [Round 13] [MooN]

[yihman1]

Fuck no. Because I don't share. I wouldn't want those 2 touching each other and if we've been together for a year, she would already know that. But, if I was into it, I'd tell her straight up: "Sure. Let's try it."

When you are with 2 girls at the same time it's about them "Sharing" than you "Sharing". Unless they do a lot of lesbian stuff, and you are never the focus...

If you told her like that she would accuse you of cheating with her already, and kick you to the curb failing her shit test, and ruining a friendship for her on the side on the way out.

 

[SteelyDan14]

Not picking sides here... the dev can write the characters any way they want, but I would agree it would be nice to have more options to opt in or out of relationships. I wanted the MC to just stay friends with Alice but could not avoid the FWB. I get that they are both young and attractive and living together. Totally get it. And I get that they might cross the line now and then, but you would think they would have "the talk" and at some point they would need to make a decision one way or the other. The MC should know Alice is in love with him and should deal with that rather than just letting it go.

Anyway, thanks for all the hard work.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

When you are with 2 girls at the same time it's about them "Sharing" than you "Sharing". Unless they do a lot of lesbian stuff, and you are never the focus...

If you told her like that she would accuse you of cheating with her already, and kick you to the curb failing her shit test, and ruining a friendship for her on the side on the way out.

Now you're reaching. If we've been together a year, she knows that I don't cheat. Also, if she wants to accuse me of it, I'll kick her to the curb. Because after a year, a woman would know what you're about and if she doesn't, it's time to move the fuck on anyway.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Not picking sides here... the dev can write the characters any way they want, but I would agree it would be nice to have more options to opt in or out of relationships. I wanted the MC to just stay friends with Alice but could not avoid the FWB. I get that they are both young and attractive and living together. Totally get it. And I get that they might cross the line now and then, but you would think they would have "the talk" and at some point they would need to make a decision one way or the other. The MC should know Alice is in love with him and should deal with that rather than just letting it go.

Anyway, thanks for all the hard work.

I agree. Choices are what matters and if there's no choices, it's basicly a KN. I'm 55 years old and when someone tells me 'It's better to lie to someone than hurt their feelings.", it really bothers me. I learned it's better to tell the truth, no matter what happens after. One, lies catch up to you and cause more harm than good and two, if you become known as a liar, no one will trust you.

Anyway, the dev should write the game their way, despite what I say or others say. It's their game and they're sharing it with us. Not the other way around.

 

[yihman1]

Not picking sides here... the dev can write the characters any way they want, but I would agree it would be nice to have more options to opt in or out of relationships. I wanted the MC to just stay friends with Alice but could not avoid the FWB. I get that they are both young and attractive and living together. Totally get it. And I get that they might cross the line now and then, but you would think they would have "the talk" and at some point they would need to make a decision one way or the other. The MC should know Alice is in love with him and should deal with that rather than just letting it go.

Anyway, thanks for all the hard work.

Thanks yea, and I hear that. There is multiple reasons why it is the way that it is.

I haven't been here since day 1 of the project. I may have written it differently making sex scenes more avoidable from the start with every single sex scene. I picked things up at Round 7, and have also gone back and made some edits to older rounds as well.

Going back and making all females avoidable would be a massive increase to scope creep. Major rewrite, recode, and additional alternate renders. (For example, lets go do X instead of having sex.) It would also add greatly to the complexity of the code an increase the odds of a bug slipping in as well.

Most players are coomers wanting a harem and love to fuck everyone... All of that extra work would offer very little benefit to a very large portion of the players. A lot of folks are just trying to get a nut off.

Too many branches too early can be a big head ache. We are still early in the project and still on season 1, but nearing season 2. We have plans in the future to make sex / relationships more avoidabler or more of a chance to pick how you want to settle but we are still building up the trunk on that one before it branches out.

Now you're reaching. If we've been together a year, she knows that I don't cheat. Also, if she wants to accuse me of it, I'll kick her to the curb. Because after a year, a woman would know what you're about and if she doesn't, it's time to move the fuck on anyway.

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I agree. Choices are what matters and if there's no choices, it's basicly a KN. I'm 55 years old and when someone tells me 'It's better to lie to someone than hurt their feelings.", it really bothers me. I learned it's better to tell the truth, no matter what happens after. One, lies catch up to you and cause more harm than good and two, if you become known as a liar, no one will trust you.

Anyway, the dev should write the game their way, despite what I say or others say. It's their game and they're sharing it with us. Not the other way around.

Yes choices matter very much. I don't think you know what a kinetic novel is. We have dozen of menu options in the game. We have several meaningful choices. Just because at some point we may lack a choice when you may have wanted a choice does not mean it is kinetic.

I'm telling you it would be great if we just put in an infinite number of choices, but that would overwork Moon... Imagine if the player didn't want his current haircut and we had an option to say "Lets go shave our head!" then so many images need to have both the new and old haircut if players wanted to keep the old one.

We have a lot of good plans moving forward, and we are trying to make things entertaining and fappable and have good amount of realism.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Thanks yea, and I hear that. There is multiple reasons why it is the way that it is.

I haven't been here since day 1 of the project. I may have written it differently making sex scenes more avoidable from the start with every single sex scene. I picked things up at Round 7, and have also gone back and made some edits to older rounds as well.

Going back and making all females avoidable would be a massive increase to scope creep. Major rewrite, recode, and additional alternate renders. (For example, lets go do X instead of having sex.) It would also add greatly to the complexity of the code an increase the odds of a bug slipping in as well.

Most players are coomers wanting a harem and love to fuck everyone... All of that extra work would offer very little benefit to a very large portion of the players. A lot of folks are just trying to get a nut off.

Too many branches too early can be a big head ache. We are still early in the project and still on season 1, but nearing season 2. We have plans in the future to make sex / relationships more avoidabler or more of a chance to pick how you want to settle but we are still building up the trunk on that one before it branches out.

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Yes choices matter very much. I don't think you know what a kinetic novel is. We have dozen of menu options in the game. We have several meaningful choices. Just because at some point we may lack a choice when you may have wanted a choice does not mean it is kinetic.

I'm telling you it would be great if we just put in an infinite number of choices, but that would overwork Moon... Imagine if the player didn't want his current haircut and we had an option to say "Lets go shave our head!" then so many images need to have both the new and old haircut if players wanted to keep the old one.

We have a lot of good plans moving forward, and we are trying to make things entertaining and fappable and have good amount of realism.

I do know what a KN is. This isn't one of those. But, I do feel that choices matter and to lie to someone is wrong. As for things being a trap, it's all good. If a woman is going to play games with you, time to kick her ass to the curb. I'm not going to be that guy who lies to make other people feel better. If the person in question doesn't like my truthful answer, that's on them. I guess I'm just different than some people. But, continue writing what you want.

 

[UncleFredo]

The player indeed may be feeling more than just FWB towards Alice or Leah at this point in time. However, these conversations about changing the title of the relationship have not yet occurred with either of them. If MC went to either of them and said; "I want you to become my girlfriend from now on." or even; "Hey, how about we get married some day?" I pretty sure the MC could get both of them to say yes to that, but I am not going to get into future events in detail and spoil future scenes. Suffice to say relationship experience is high with the both of them at this point in time and things are going well, and they are ready for something else when the time comes.

Just because someone is a "Sexual Target" as you put it does not mean that you are acting "Predatory" towards them if you choose attempt to seduce them, and they welcome this. His thoughts never go to; "I'm going to drug her up and chain her to the bed like it or not!" Just because you want to fuck someone doesn't mean you want to be predatory towards them. Not spilling all of your baggage when you are fooling around doesn't mean you are a sexual predator.

I agree things would be very different if Rose was far less innocent. If she fucked every guy on the football team she would likely have different mindset about sex. Even under those circumstances it's not advised to just sperg out and spill the spaghetti at a girl talking about other girls you may or may not be sexual with. Maybe bring it up later and talk about it sometime if you want, but not in the middle of fooling around. Only a fool would do that.

In my own personal life experience when I was a teenager I have done something very similar to what you are suggesting mc should have done, and that was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life. That the was 1 time I made my girlfriend at the time cry in year long relationship. She asked, "Which one of my friends do you think is the sexiest?" and like the great fool I was I answered like she was just a "Guy Friend", talking about other girls I may have want to fuck... and once that spaghetti was out of my pockets there was no way for me to fix the situation, and things changed for the worse after that. She started feeling more self-conscious and she cried a lot and we eventually stopped seeing each other... I was good guy writer here though, and let our protagonist avoid the same fate I had in the past. Still to this day 20 years later I regret that sometimes... Angie... my sweet angel... my wife that never was because I was too retarded to keep my mouth shut. I should have said; "Lets not talk about them. I love you", but I fucked that up in the worst of ways.

Sometimes you must lie to a woman to keep shit from hitting the fan. Maybe MC should have said what you suggest, and maybe Rose would have taken it well... Then Rose would have had a discussion with her mother, and maybe her mother would have taken it wrong saying "I don't like that boy. He is just some player. He is bad news. I want you to break up with him." Scarlet already has some dislike for MC. MC saying he has other women is just too much for her to handle right now. This may have put Rose into an awkward situation where she has to get in an argument with her mother defending you over something that may actually be hurting her feelings... SADISTIC! Why do that to them? They are nice people. Why torture them like that?

We aren't going to find common ground here. You're perfectly within your rights, which I fully support, to ignore prior player choices, or interpret them in a fashion that you can push your preferred story arc forward. I offer you one observation. You're not offering a KN, in any VN you screw with player agency at your and your VN's peril.

As I said, you've created an excellent VN and I'll wait to see where you take it.

Update:
Maybe a classic example will show you my point. Think about who you've turned the MC into compared to this. Because with your storyline you've eliminated any way for you or a player to redeem him.

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[yihman1]

I do know what a KN is. This isn't one of those. But, I do feel that choices matter and to lie to someone is wrong. As for things being a trap, it's all good. If a woman is going to play games with you, time to kick her ass to the curb. I'm not going to be that guy who lies to make other people feel better. If the person in question doesn't like my truthful answer, that's on them. I guess I'm just different than some people. But, continue writing what you want.

Is it always wrong to lie? I am going to run a few scenarios past you tell me if lying is right or wrong in any of these situations, and why:

1)

It's is Christmas day. You have a 5 year-year-old daughter. You bought her an expensive toy for Christmas and wrote "From Santa" on the tag as it is the norm to do that.

She says: "Santa loves me because he got me this!"

Do you say, "Actually princess... Santa isn't real. You see Daddy bought you that present. I worked my butt off to pay for it too. I had to put in a bit of overtime and it has really stressing me out... My boss is a real slave driver you see..."

or...

Do you say, "He sure does princess."

2)

A year goes by. The little princess is now 6-years-old and she brings to you a necklace she made herself... If you are being completely objective It is hideous and poorly made. A kid made it...

Do you say, "This is an ugly necklace. I don't want it and I don't want to wear it."

or...

"Oh Princess you are so creative and talented I have a little artist here! Thank you for the gift."

3)

Another year goes by and the little princess now 7-years-old has had a puppy dog for a few months now. Of course as an adult the animal is much more your responsibility than hers. One day after work you are out walking the dog, and in one hand your cellphone rings distracting you it's the wife, and you reach to check it, but squirrel runs by and the dog starts running and gets free of your leash and gets hit by a truck as it runs into the street after the little critter... You are in absolute shock and terror. You run over to your pet and it has several broken bones and it's not going to make it... The dog is coughing up blood, and you manage to get it in your car you get it to the vet... The vet looks at you sadly shaking there head no... The doggo isn't going to make it. You clean yourself and your car up, and head home...

Do you say, "Princess... your dog is dead. I couldn't save it and it was coughing up blood and I was crying and it was in so much pain we just had to put it sleep. There was a lot of suffering and I had spend an hour cleaning the blood out of my car. I will replace the animal later."

or...

"Princess I have wonderful news. I found our little doggy friend's mommy and daddy. Oh they missed him so much. They are living on this farm upstate and I took him up there, and he is with his mommy and daddy and oh it was so beautiful. He found little rabbit friend to chase and he is having so much fun... We will get you a new puppy some day."

A person picking the blue choices here isn't being honest... Fair enough, but that doesn't mean they are lying to be mean or predatory. They are lying to be protective of the innocent. They don't want to scar the girl. Would you say the person picking blue is a bad person? Sometimes too much truth can hurt someone.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Is it always wrong to lie? I am going to run a few scenarios past you tell me if lying is right or wrong in any of these situations, and why:

1)

It's is Christmas day. You have a 5 year-year-old daughter. You bought her an expensive toy for Christmas and wrote "From Santa" on the tag as it is the norm to do that.

She says: "Santa loves me because he got me this!"

Do you say, "Actually princess... Santa isn't real. You see Daddy bought you that present. I worked my butt off to pay for it too. I had to put in a bit of time and it has really stressing me out... My boss is a real slave driver you see..."

or...

Do you say, "He sure does princess."

2)

A year goes by. The little princess is now 6-years-old and she brings to you a necklace she made herself... If you are being completely objective It is hideous and poorly made. A kid made it...

Do you say, "This is an ugly necklace. I don't want it and I don't want to wear it."

or...

"Oh Princess you are so creative and talented I have a little artist here! Thank you for the gift."

3)

Another year goes by and the little princess now 7-years-old has had a puppy dog for a few months now. Of course as an adult the animal is much more your responsibility than hers. One day after work you are out walking the dog, and in one hand your cellphone rings distracting you it's the wife, and you reach to check it, but squirrel runs by and the dog starts running and gets free of your leash and gets hit by a truck as it runs into the street after the little critter... You are in absolute shock and terror. You run over to your pet and it has several broken bones and it's not going to make it... The dog is coughing up blood, and you manage to get it in your car you get it to the vet... The vet looks at you sadly shaking there head no... The doggo isn't going to make it. You clean yourself and your car up, and head home...

Do you say, "Princess... your dog is dead. I couldn't save it and it was coughing up blood and I was crying and it was in so much pain we just had to put it sleep. There was a lot of suffering and I had spend an hour cleaning the blood out of my car. I will replace the animal later."

or...

"Princess I have wonderful news. I found our little doggy friend's mommy and daddy. Oh they missed him so much. They are living on this farm upstate and I took him up there, and he is with his mommy and daddy and oh it was so beautiful. He found little rabbit friend to chase and he is having so much fun... We will get you a new puppy some day."

A person picking the blue choices here isn't being honest... Fair enough, but that doesn't mean they are lying to be mean or predatory. They are lying to be protective of the innocent. They don't want to scar the girl. Would you say the person picking blue is a bad person? Sometimes too much truth can hurt someone.

You really love reaching, don't you? You're not going to prove your point about lying to adults, by using examples of children, Santa or the Easter Bunny.

 

[UncleFredo]

You really love reaching, don't you? You're not going to prove your point about lying to adults, by using examples of children, Santa or the Easter Bunny.

Damn Right!

 

[yihman1]

You really love reaching, don't you? You're not going to prove your point about lying to adults, by using examples of children, Santa or the Easter Bunny.

Alright I'll use adult examples:

1)

You don't often go to church, and haven't much faith. However, your grandmother does, and she is very sick. She is a very old woman, and she is on her death bed. You are her favorite grandchild and you visit her in the hospital.

Your Grandma is laying in bed and she says to you. "One day we will see each other again in heaven."

Do you say, "I love you, but no. This is it. You are done. When you die you are dead. There is nothing. Black screen no thoughts no memories. It's all over. I will miss you when you are gone, but heaven isn't real... You are food for worms."

or...

"It's going to be great. You will be young and strong again, and you are going to have all your pets and grandpa is waiting for you right now... You will finally meet Jesus..."

Do you really want to have that fight in their last moments? I wouldn't...

2)

You are not having the best day. It's one of those days. It's lunch time, and you head to a diner to have lunch. You are seated, and the server walks up to you asking; "How is your day going? Here is a menu."

Do you say, "I am having a terrible day. When I got up this morning I stubbed my toe on the bed that hurt really bad. Then I went to go take my morning shower, but I forgot to buy more shampoo. I got this tooth ache that has been bugging me for days, and I may be getting sick. So I head Into work and my is a huge boss jerk... blah blah blah... I'll let you know when I am ready to order."

or

"Good and you? Thanks for the menu I'll have a quick look and let you know."

You think the server wanted to hear all that?

3)

You are a married man. You have been faithfully married for 10 years now. The wife has put on about 15 or 20 extra pounds since when you met her and you guys have a baby together. She is in the room with you, and looking herself over in various angles in the mirror and she looks to you and says, "Do I look fat?" In all fairness she does look fatter than when you met her.

Do you say, "You sure do! I miss when you had a thinner body. You should hit the gym!"

or...

"You are beautiful."

You really want to pick that fight?

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Alright I'll use adult examples:

1)

You don't often go to church, and haven't much faith. However, your grandmother does, and she is very sick. She is a very old woman, and she is on her death bed. You are her favorite grandchild and you visit her in the hospital.

Your Grandma is laying in bed and she says to you. "One day we will see each other again in heaven."

Do you say, "I love you, but no. This is it. You are done. When you die you are dead. There is nothing. Black screen no thoughts no memories. It's all over. I will miss you when you are gone, but heaven isn't real... You are food for worms."

or...

"It's going to be great. You will be young and strong again, and you are going to have all your pets and grandpa is waiting for you right now... You will finally meet Jesus..."

Do you really want to have that fight in their last moments? I wouldn't...

2)

You are not having the best day. It's one of those days. It's lunch time, and you head to a diner to have lunch. You are seated, and the server walks up to you asking; "How is your day going? Here is a menu."

Do you say, "I am having a terrible day. When I got up this morning I stubbed my toe on the bed that hurt really bad. Then I went to go take my morning shower, but I forgot to buy more shampoo. I got this tooth ache that has been bugging me for days, and I may be getting sick. So I head Into work and my is a huge boss jerk... blah blah blah... I'll let you know when I am ready to order."

or

"Good and you? Thanks for the menu I'll have a quick look and let you know."

You think the server wanted to hear all that?

3)

You are a married man. You have been faithfully married for 10 years now. The wife has put on about 15 or 20 extra pounds since when you met her and you guys have a baby together. She is in the room with you, and looking herself over in various angles in the mirror and she looks to you and says, "Do I look fat?" In all fairness she does look fatter than when you met her.

Do you say, "You sure do! I miss when you had a thinner body. You should hit the gym!"

or...

"You are beautiful."

You really want to pick that fight?

1. Well, for one, I do believe in an afterlife, so, yes, I'll see her on the otherside, except, she'll be in Heaven and I will be in Hell.


2. I'd smile at her and thank her for the menu.

3. 15 or 20 pounds is nothing. She wouldn't be looking 'fat', so, I'd tell her the truth that she's beautiful.

Like I said, I'm different than all you young guys.

 

[UncleFredo]

1. Well, for one, I do believe in an afterlife, so, yes, I'll see her on the otherside, except, she'll be in Heaven and I will be in Hell.


2. I'd smile at her and thank her for the menu.

3. 15 or 20 pounds is nothing. She wouldn't be looking 'fat', so, I'd tell her the truth that she's beautiful.

Like I said, I'm different than all you young guys.

Yeah I'm an old fart too. Maybe thats the disconnect...

 

[yihman1]

1. Well, for one, I do believe in an afterlife, so, yes, I'll see her on the otherside, except, she'll be in Heaven and I will be in Hell.


2. I'd smile at her and thank her for the menu.

3. 15 or 20 pounds is nothing. She wouldn't be looking 'fat', so, I'd tell her the truth that she's beautiful.

Like I said, I'm different than all you young guys.

Right, but not all people do believe in an afterlife. If you were a non believer you wouldn't pick a fight with a believer on their death bed about it right? That's fucked up.

Right, you are not gonna tell her how your day is really going and you are going to lie to her.

15-20 pounds was arbitrary I could of said 30 or 40 pounds... 15-20 pounds isn't nothing, but she is noticeably bigger and less attractive if you are being completely objective and honest, but again you are not gonna tell her that.

Yeah I'm an old fart too. Maybe thats the disconnect...

You guys should really check out the film "Liar Liar" with Jim Carrey. It shows you that sometimes being too honest is not the best idea.

At the same time that doesn't mean you should lie at every chance you get either if you think it may be to your advantage.

Sometimes too much honesty is a nightmare when it is taken to an extreme.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Yeah I'm an old fart too. Maybe thats the disconnect...

Amen, brother.

Right, you are not gonna tell her how your day is really going and you are going to lie to her.


Sometimes too much honesty is a nightmare when it is taken to an extreme.

Where in what I said, did I say that I would lie to her? I didn't. Not talking to her about my day, is not lying. Again, you're stretching to find any reason to justify lying to someone.

 

[yihman1]

Amen, brother.


Where in what I said, did I say that I would lie to her? I didn't. Not talking to her about my day, is not lying. Again, you're stretching to find any reason to justify lying to someone.

You would fake a smile on an awful day out of politeness even if it were not really a smiley day, and not just open up a big can of honesty to the waitress. You are not talking to your best friend after a couple of beers, it is not really her business either.

Most people tell little white lies like this.

Maybe you can put yourself in that server's shoes, and if you go on a 2 minute rant about how shitty your day is going you would come to think they may be thinking something like; "Jeeze dude it was a rhetorical question. Frankly I really don't give a shit. I'm just doing this to pay the bills I am not your therapist, and I got my own problems!" You don't want to be an added source of stress to them and you just want your food to be good and served in polite way and then to be on your way.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

You would fake a smile on an awful day out of politeness even if it were not really a smiley day, and not just open up a big can of honesty to the waitress. You are not talking to your best friend after a couple of beers, it is not really her business either.

Most people tell little white lies like this.

Maybe you can put yourself in that server's shoes, and if you go on a 2 minute rant about how shitty your day is going you would come to think they may be thinking something like; "Jeeze dude it was a rhetorical question. Frankly I really don't give a shit. I'm just doing this to pay the bills I am not your therapist, and I got my own problems!" You don't want to be an added source of stress to them and you just want your food to be good and served in polite way and then to be on your way.

I give up with you. You try to justify lies by saying others are lying. What I said I'd do is not lying. No matter how you try and twist it. You are just one of those people who would lie about the smallest thing. So, you justify it. Maybe stop writing a VN and go into politics.

 

[yihman1]

I give up with you. You try to justify lies by saying others are lying. What I said I'd do is not lying. No matter how you try and twist it. You are just one of those people who would lie about the smallest thing. So, you justify it. Maybe stop writing a VN and go into politics.

Would you agree to the following statement:

As a general rule of thumb lying is bad and immoral. However, sometimes exceptions can be made and a bit of kindness is more suitable for certain situations than abrasive truths.

I'm not corrupt enough to be a politician, and I would rather do something productive.

On an unrelated note I am very psyched up about Round 9 and the introduction of a new character. She is a Tsundere!

 

[yihman1]

This woman wrote an

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somewhat related to our situation here. A guy was bit too honest with her, and this really shattered her self-esteem and ego making her lose her mind. So much so that she wrote an article complaining about his behavior.

I took this sort of situation into consideration when writing that scene.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Would you agree to the following statement:

As a general rule of thumb lying is bad and immoral. However, sometimes exceptions can be made and a bit of kindness is more suitable for certain situations than abrasive truths.

I'm not corrupt enough to be a politician, and I would rather do something productive.

On an unrelated note I am very psyched up about Round 9 and the introduction of a new character. She is a Tsundere!

I do not agree.

It is best to say the truth, than coddle someone with a lie.