Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.49.0] [Selebus]

[barglenarglezous]

Perhaps by… suffering some kind of tremendous loss, a ‘complete’ person’s life is suddenly now ‘incomplete’?

I'll refer once again to this passage, as it lays out the core theme of the game quite well, and is also likely directly tied to what prompts the egg to crack.

Spoiler: Selebus' thesis statement

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

This is taken from Makoto's apology scene.

To reach the rooftop, they need to suffer. They need to cry. They need to become beautiful for Sensei.

 

[barglenarglezous]

How to continue girls story without grinding their stats/Affection?

Use UMR (linked in some other people's sig file) or another Ren'py save file editor to manually adjust those values to an artificially high number.

 

[DeSkel15]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

Honestly, I think it kind of comes down to this:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Being Whole may just translate to being Happy. Most of these girls are "happy" with how things are, even if it's not perfect. They are happy with their script that they were given. Happy to play the girl they are scripted to play.

When they truly go off script is when they become aware. When things happen that change who they are and what they want, or when they are not "happy here", they seem to become aware. Sana, for example, is wanting to be Happy, now:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Which seems to have made it so that she can acknowledge the reality of the world. She's not the same character she was scripted to be. She just didn't care about the weird things going on, until Sensei mentioned it.

• Ayane had been happy until she got knocked up, and then lost the baby, which she still remembers. She wanted to be a mother, and that's what made her happy, what kept her going, but this world wouldn't allow that. She's had to go off script to be happy ever since.
• Makoto has had to change again and again since Bluejay to be Happy. Bluejay broke her, then she was reset, but the memories of Bluejay forced her to try to change, then her father's death nearly broke her, but Ami helped her (Ami's the caretaker and cared for both Ayane and Makoto before they became aware), which allowed Makoto to instead focus on what makes her Happy. This is when the Unbluejay happens, she tricks Sensei into signing marriage papers, and then she's shown to have become aware of things. Her trying to be Happy, instead of simply being "happy here", may have been why.
• Yumi was forced to re-evaluate what makes her Happy after Nodoka forced her to face herself, Chika, and what her future might look like (Yuki). This led to her trying to be Happy, by letting Yuki back in, being nice to Noriko and Futaba, etc.
• Tsuneyo is a little different, but assuming that what happened to Molly forced her to re-evaluate what makes her Happy, then Sensei taking her on that date also changed what she thinks will make her Happy (Sensei), then this may explain why she's become aware.

Nodoka seems to be trying to liberate everyone, presumably like her mother tried to, in the past, from the script. From the game. She's doing this by more or less:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

However, trying to break the mold seems to have crippled Nodoka's mother mentally, and may do the same to Nodoka. Kyoko didn't seem to have a Sensei to help like Nodoka might, though:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

For those unaware, Nodoka's mother isn't able to take care of herself:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

And we presumably know why, now. She fought the world, alone, and...lost.

Although, like Nao has pointed out:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I'm not sure if Nodoka's attempt at liberation is because she's actually smart enough to escape her script, or if it's simply how she was scripted.

Her noticing the stain, and her notes, may simply be what's supposed to happen, but if so, then who's to say that becoming aware, or getting to the roof during a reset, isn't part of the script.

We know it technically is, but if Sel is going that route, then this really can only end rather depressingly.

Edit: Also Maya and Sensei may have become aware because without eachother they weren't "happy here".

 

[aramaug]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

A longer post on Nodoka is on my to-do list, but my basic understanding of what's going on with her is that she's able to receive fragmentary thoughts and memories from one or more "other Nodokas", probably past versions of her that were factory reset. In contrast, the other characters also have these other selves, but they aren't mentally connected to them in any way.

If I understand correctly, what she believes is that:

• Each time (for example) Futaba is factory reset, she's replaced with an exact copy of her pre-reset version. When presented with the same situations, she will act in exactly the same way - like an actor playing the same character each time. She's whole in the sense that the current Futaba is always a single consciousness in a single body.
• Each time Nodoka is factory reset, a new piece is added to a connected web of Nodoka conscioussnesses. Since she can (to some extent) draw on her past experiences, she's able to act differently than she has in previous cycles. On the other hand, she's not whole because the "real Nodoka" is spread among all these different pieces.

It's definitely possible that this is connected in some way to being able to comprehend the cycles, but I'm still not sure what the trigger is. For Nodoka it seems to be a hereditary thing, she's said her mother had the same thing and it drove her insane (and her father is probably Yuu, who also had visions).

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Sensei - Where to start? He’s lost a lot. Sekai. His brother. His parents. His innocence. Not to mention, like Yuu, he’s special; a wildcard.

Maya - Maya Prime lost Akira, the love of her life, making her incomplete. She then made a divine wish that she could be with him forever, and like the story of Altair and Vega, was delivered to her in the worst way imaginable, leading to her curse and most likely the time loops themselves.

Ayane - She got pregnant with Himawari before Reset 3, somehow got the idea to meet with Sensei on the roof, and then showed up during said reset. Once the reset itself happened, Ayane was gone, along with the unborn Himawari. Her baby was now lost, making Ayane incomplete. Come Reset 4, Ayane shows up on the roof again, and this time, doesn’t disappear.

Makoto - Makoto started becoming aware of the time fuckery around the time of the solo beach trip with her, Sensei and Miku, but didn’t really begin perceiving things until after the death of her father. Masahiro was her reason for pushing herself in school and making her the person she was. She wanted to make him proud. And now that he’s gone, Makoto is now an incomplete person. In Reset 6, she shows up on the roof.

• Ayane had been happy until she got knocked up, and then lost the baby, which she still remembers. She wanted to be a mother, and that's what made her happy, what kept her going, but this world wouldn't allow that. She's had to go off script to be happy ever since.
• Makoto has had to change again and again since Bluejay to be Happy. Bluejay broke her, then she was reset, but the memories of Bluejay forced her to try to change, then her father's death nearly broke her, but Ami helped her (Ami's the caretaker and cared for both Ayane and Makoto before they became aware), which allowed Makoto to instead focus on what makes her Happy. This is when the Unbluejay happens, she tricks Sensei into signing marriage papers, and then she's shown to have become aware of things. Her trying to be Happy, instead of simply being "happy here", may have been why.
• Yumi was forced to re-evaluate what makes her Happy after Nodoka forced her to face herself, Chika, and what her future might look like (Yuki). This led to her trying to be Happy, by letting Yuki back in, being nice to Noriko and Futaba, etc.
• Tsuneyo is a little different, but assuming that what happened to Molly forced her to re-evaluate what makes her Happy, then Sensei taking her on that date also changed what she thinks will make her Happy (Sensei), then this may explain why she's become aware.

Considering you two, I guess Maya got resetted because she finally found happiness with Akira. She realized he remembered a lot of stuff and still loved her. But, paradoxically, that's what killed her – her own happiness. You shouldn't really be happy in this world.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

I think the next person to make it through the next reset will be either Yumi, Chika, or both
more likely Chika

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

Hmm, I don't think it would add something very substantial for RAS business because it lacks comparable examples. To explain this I want to point out what Nodoka currently could grasp first because I feel like we're trying to tackle more than one question all at once:

1. Individuals can pass between planes. Types of passing vary. Two types that are validated by Nodoka in this update are physical teleportation and entering a mental state where actions of your body are guided by memories.
2. The source of aforementioned memories isn't limited to "the you in this plane". You can be guided by memories that are, in this context, from "the you(s) in other plane(s)".
3. Unlike the rest of the girls that would just "A-anyway!", Nodoka utilizes this phenomenon to guide herself, and ultimately finds out that the world is repeating. Thus her extension to this conclusion is that a script must have existed in order for a world to indefinitely repeat itself.

By listing these, my expanded bullet points are:

• How Nodoka gains herself awareness to the fuckery is not simply from perceiving her past selves, but from experimenting with them and somehow answering the big question. The importance of "being whole or not" in this matter or in her case is not addressed.
• Besides, I can't tell whether "no longer being whole" is the cause or the effect here. Nodoka can be referring to a mental state that is traumatized, or a mental state that is a superposition of selves from multiple planes combined.
• Even if "no longer being whole" is the key to perceiving past selves memories, being able to perceive doesn't necessarily equate a trip to the rooftop (Ayane in reset3 with zero awareness), or landing you a place in RAS (Yumi and Tsuneyo in reset5), or timely landing you a place in RAS (Makoto remembered things way before reset6). Therefore trying to find what's not whole about the potential RAS members to correlate their fuckery awareness feels less like writing an answer to a question but more like writing a question for an answer.

A little sidetrack here is that one might even argue the definition of "past selves memories". Loose definition is any memory that doesn't make chronological sense, while stringent definition will be the memories from selves in the past cycles. Currently only Yumi is shown to be qualified under the stringent definition as someone who can apparently remember the detentions other iterations gave her. Still, remembering that hasn't landed her a place in RAS yet.

 

[aramaug]

thats an interesting thought, do we have any evidence to support this? I thought Yuu was supposed to be Akira's father (and Saki, his mother) so I wonder what the circumstances would've been for Yuu to have a kid with Kyoko?

It might have been too strong to say that Yuu is "probably" her father, but there is circumstantial evidence:

1. Kyoko is one of the residents of the upside down house along with Saki, two other Nothing is Beautiful characters, and an unnamed male. Because of the NiB connection, people think it's Yuu.
2. In the event where Sensei trades nudes with Otoha, he suddenly gets weird thoughts apparently coming from Nodoka's father ("Can you hear this Kyoko? Your daughter is a nightmare. She has my eyes.") with the attached photograph on the screen, probably meant to be from the upside down house. It's more likely these come from someone Sensei has a connection with rather than a random unnamed character. View attachment buddybug.webp
3. There's joking references to Sensei and Nodoka being secret siblings which could be foreshadowing. See the "secret family" section of my post here.

 

[DeSkel15]

Considering you two, I guess Maya got resetted because she finally found happiness with Akira. She realized he remembered a lot of stuff and still loved her. But, paradoxically, that's what killed her – her own happiness. You shouldn't really be happy in this world.

Maya Prime also seemed to have her memories be erased until there was only Akira:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

So, there's literally nothing besides Sensei that could have made her happy at the end.

A little sidetrack here is that one might even argue the definition of "past selves memories". Loose definition is any memory that doesn't make chronological sense, while stringent definition will be the memories from selves in the past cycles. Currently only Yumi is shown to be qualified under the stringent definition as someone who can apparently remember the detentions other iterations gave her. Still, remembering that hasn't landed her a place in RAS yet.

Technically, Yumi might just be remembering what happened before the resets:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Or maybe even during the Beachmas timeskip since Sensei and Yumi were hanging out a lot during it apparently:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Which may have been shown earlier in the 'Redeemer' Main Event:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Yumi's memories have been a mess since she seemingly died in Reset 5, and since Beachmas, they have been questionable due to that 2 months timeskip.

Besides Maya Prime, only Tsuneyo and Sensei have seemed to recall memories from past timelines. Tsuneyo recalled Sensei saying something when she wasn't part of the class yet, and hearing about the Resets, while Sensei recalled a crying Maya (Prime?) jerking him off, to death, back during the first reset in this timeline.

 

[Bingoogus]

Alright, now that's a lot to digest... now i'm looking forward to what each of you has to say on the other's interpretation... cause i am big big dummy and have no hope of sorting through it all on my own.

 

[Moonflare]

It might have been too strong to say that Yuu is "probably" her father, but there is circumstantial evidence:

1. Kyoko is one of the residents of the upside down house along with Saki, two other Nothing is Beautiful characters, and an unnamed male. Because of the NiB connection, people think it's Yuu.
2. In the event where Sensei trades nudes with Otoha, he suddenly gets weird thoughts apparently coming from Nodoka's father ("Can you hear this Kyoko? Your daughter is a nightmare. She has my eyes.") with the attached photograph on the screen, probably meant to be from the upside down house. It's more likely these come from someone Sensei has a connection with rather than a random unnamed character. View attachment 3900374
3. There's joking references to Sensei and Nodoka being secret siblings which could be foreshadowing. See the "secret family" section of my post here.

The timelines don't match though. Nodoka is Ami's age. The only possible way for Nodoka to be Akira's sister is if she time-travelled, she'd have to be Yuu's granddaughter if anything (which isn't likely because she's Kyoko's daughter).

Also, if Yuu was around to impregnate Kyoko by the time Ami was born, then Saki's trauma would make little sense. Why would she be so hard on Akira (for his similarity to Yuu) if Yuu was around and well enough to go around getting people pregnant?

Also, if Yuu was around and well, it'd make absolutely no sense for him not to care for Akira when he started showing the same symptoms as him. It's understandable that Saki'd react badly to it because it had already taken her husband. But for Yuu? He'd be well, and thus Akira's issues would be much less of a big deal since he was able to thrive even though he had them as well.

 

[g6107419]

Is there a list of triggers? I couldn't find anything with a quick look but I'm also trying to avoid spoilers

 

[Comiies]

Is there a list of triggers? I couldn't find anything with a quick look but I'm also trying to avoid spoilers

Either the wiki or the guide mod.Or you can search around in the files ig but idk how much youll find

 

[grimfate56]

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

 

[Moonflare]

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

Pareidolia seems to be using her. We used to think it was HOPE, mainly because it seems HOPE was involved with Sara, and there's the theory Sana is the daughter of Nozomu himself. However, since that one event Pareidolia "saved" Sana/slipped her back to kumon-mi (or even engineered the whole situation), it seems he's intent on using her.

There are many instances (like spiders and rabbits), but, directly, Sana was the one in Akira's dream as spring arrived (Pareidolia's season), and he also predicted what would happen on the beach (maybe even was the one guiding Sana).

Indirectly, Sana has been involved with Sekai and/but Sekai's actual involvement with Pareidolia is up in the air (they're working "together" in stomachache, and she was the one guiding Akira right before he first fingered Sana).

Lastly, Himawari/her rogue team has actively rebelled against Pareidolia (this can be seen in "miserably ever after"), and the fact that narrator (most likely Himawari) tells Akira to stay in the room, and imediately after Sana comes to get him out of the room, would point out Pareidolia as the opposed party.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

Hope and/or Pareidolia (more likely) has some sort of interest in/connection to Sana, and is seemingly the reason we now have horny Sana — the one that found Akira in the infirmary to fug and can't help but masturbate in public bathrooms. She's probably been/being manipulated on some level somehow. Far as I can tell, she's not being directly controlled or spoken to though, unless we get evidence otherwise. It's more been alluded to that someone is making Sana or others have certain feelings. See the speculation on girls being vessels / sacrifices etc. or having some sort of purpose like angels in training. To make this post distinct, It's likely just weird, hormones-over-introversion Sana, who's already dealt with visions. She can become aware now but doesn't really understand what's going on, either, she just overheard a batshit conversation and can't really process it.

 

[Comiies]

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

The gods are starting to gather pawns for the game that is starting.The current players are as follows.

1)Hope
2)Himawari and Co
3)Wires
4)Pareidolia and Sekai

For the sake of the argument im using the theory that everything thats happening is because the 3 MAIN gods of this universe(Pareidolia Wires Hope) have different goals and that creates conflict.

Pareidolia wishes for chaos and destruction.He wishes to destroy everything around Akira not because he wants to remake the world or anything like that.Pareidolia is just a very sadistic entity.

Hope wishes to reform the world.He wants to change the way things are and in order to do that he NEEDS Akira.He has developed an unhealthy obsession with him and he has even went as far as temporarely descending into our world(Which i will refer to it as TERMINAL 23) through Yasu.

Wires is the closest thing Akira has to an ally in this game.Wires has helped him stay sane from the very beginning,he has tried to stop Akira from making irreversible mistakes but to no avail.He wants to maintain order but he is either weakened or is just in general not on par with the other 2.

One potential theory that ive been letting stew goes as follows.

We have 4 seasons in kumon-mi.Winter Summer Spring and Autumn.

Now we know that Spring is Pareidolias season but we cant exactly be sure about all the other seasons.But for the sake of it lets suppose it goes as follows.

Spring~Pareidolia
Summer~Hope
Automn~Wires
Winter~Nao(Im supposing Nao is the god that Maya prayed to to reset the world)

My theory goes as follows.Each god represents one season in kumon-mi so the corresponding god is stronger in their season.They are able to interfere with the world around them and do a lot more weird god stuff.Now i believe that Pareidolias "Endless Spring" is him artifically keeping this up as his first move towards his goal.

If we follow that theory then Pareidolia already has 2 wonderful pawns.Sekai and now potentially Sana(As Moonflare said i also believe that Adult Sana appearing in Senseis dream was Pareidolias attempt to influence him).

Hope has Yasu and his angels.

Wires has Tsuneyo and her father.

Nao is still a mystery.

But yea TLDR:I believe that we are in the beginning of a game of chess between gods to decide the future of this world.We arent an active player,we are the most valuable piece.

 

[Xiondingens]

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

Well, at least i never got any sign for ill intent from her. For me it was more like, she finally knows what she wants and how she can get it. Sure, i would agree that she didnt got to this point by herself. But i didnt got the same evil plan vibe as i got from the smile ami had at the end.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

The gods are starting to gather pawns for the game that is starting.The current players are as follows.

1)Hope
2)Himawari and Co
3)Wires
4)Pareidolia and Sekai

For the sake of the argument im using the theory that everything thats happening is because the 3 MAIN gods of this universe(Pareidolia Wires Hope) have different goals and that creates conflict.

Pareidolia wishes for chaos and destruction.He wishes to destroy everything around Akira not because he wants to remake the world or anything like that.Pareidolia is just a very sadistic entity.

Hope wishes to reform the world.He wants to change the way things are and in order to do that he NEEDS Akira.He has developed an unhealthy obsession with him and he has even went as far as temporarely descending into our world(Which i will refer to it as TERMINAL 23) through Yasu.

Wires is the closest thing Akira has to an ally in this game.Wires has helped him stay sane from the very beginning,he has tried to stop Akira from making irreversible mistakes but to no avail.He wants to maintain order but he is either weakened or is just in general not on par with the other 2.

One potential theory that ive been letting stew goes as follows.

We have 4 seasons in kumon-mi.Winter Summer Spring and Autumn.

Now we know that Spring is Pareidolias season but we cant exactly be sure about all the other seasons.But for the sake of it lets suppose it goes as follows.

Spring~Pareidolia
Summer~Hope
Automn~Wires
Winter~Nao(Im supposing Nao is the god that Maya prayed to to reset the world)

My theory goes as follows.Each god represents one season in kumon-mi so the corresponding god is stronger in their season.They are able to interfere with the world around them and do a lot more weird god stuff.Now i believe that Pareidolias "Endless Spring" is him artifically keeping this up as his first move towards his goal.

If we follow that theory then Pareidolia already has 2 wonderful pawns.Sekai and now potentially Sana(As Moonflare said i also believe that Adult Sana appearing in Senseis dream was Pareidolias attempt to influence him).

Hope has Yasu and his angels.

Wires has Tsuneyo and her father.

Nao is still a mystery.

But yea TLDR:I believe that we are in the beginning of a game of chess between gods to decide the future of this world.We arent an active player,we are the most valuable piece.

bruh, you're making it hard to remain calm here

 

[Xiondingens]

So what do you guys think is the plan? I mean i think because of the fact that she did agree to niki moving in, it will be about her. But is it about Niki overtaken by Sekai, or is it to completely destroy her releationship with Akira? I mean, i am sure Ami has enough proof for what he is doing to do that.