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AgumenticR

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Sep 6, 2018
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Sensei is more cowardly, not because he cares about others, but because he cares about how others will see him. His attempts at caring are more like excuses he creates to ignore how he really is, and masks to keep others from seeing what's underneath. If he actually cared, there would be no need to even attempt to try.
If all he cared about was how others see him, he wouldn't avoid several relationships others would approve or accept, and he wouldn't try to develop several others in the directions that while not much different from outside perspective are very different from an inside one. At the very least, he also cares about how he sees himself, and he wants to see himself as someone who cares. Whether there's any difference between that and actually caring is a rather philosophical debate full of vagueness. In any case, there's certainly a need to try when the example of "caring for" that stands strongest in his mind is Sekai.
Sensei definitely wants to indulge in his desires btw. He just doesn't want to feel bad about it, hence stuff like this:
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If he really wanted to indulge in them, he wouldn't feel bad about it in the first place.
 

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
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If all he cared about was how others see him, he wouldn't avoid several relationships others would approve or accept, and he wouldn't try to develop several others in the directions that while not much different from outside perspective are very different from an inside one. At the very least, he also cares about how he sees himself, and he wants to see himself as someone who cares. Whether there's any difference between that and actually caring is a rather philosophical debate full of vagueness. In any case, there's certainly a need to try when the example of "caring for" that stands strongest in his mind is Sekai.

If he really wanted to indulge in them, he wouldn't feel bad about it in the first place.
He would if he wanted his other partners like Chika to not find out and stop having sex with him. He's a slut, and a smart one. He's not trying to end up with less sex.

Sekai actually seemed to care more about Sensei than he does for a few of these girls he's fucking, tbh.

Nah, if he really didn't want to indulge in them, he wouldn't indulge in them. The feeling bad part has nothing to do with the desires themselves, it's about how they make him look to others and himself.
 
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alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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If grooming a teenager into trusting you, so that you can fuck them, and making yourself feel better for the things you've already done to them, aren't "bad reasons", then I guess that's just how you see things.

An ulterior motive is any motive that isn't revealed. Any unrevealed reason more than simply wanting to help a person when you're helping them is an ulterior motive by definition.

Also Yumi has likely crushed on Sensei since before the start, and there's plenty of inferences. It's also been revealed she masturbates to him:
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The main reason Nodoka did that to Yumi was to cuck her. Hence why she made sure not to give Yumi the option of blowing Sensei. Nodoka believed Yumi would have taken that third option, and as Nodoka said, she wanted Yumi to have nothing.

Sensei also knew Noriko was there and still facefucked another girl (Ami) in front of her, knowing Noriko wouldn't like it. He definitely chose to do this instead of stopping her. He did do similar to Noriko with Niki back in the day, but back then, yeah he didn't know she was actually there. I'm also thinking a similar scenario happened with Maya, but that needs more intel.
It's not grooming to help them, the other cases yeah, but there was no apparent grooming or even sex based motive behind the specific actions I mentioned. The majority of his actions, yes, they would have a sex based motive and would be grooming because they are working toward his goal of fucking them and blatantly so for anyone other than the girls he's trying not to broadcast this motive to.

However, when even he questions why he does something and he's helping a girl who isn't going to get any closer to opening her legs for him by being helped finding a job or a girl who isn't going to open her legs because he was there as emotional support when she got rejected or was depressed, then either he's insane by definition in that he's trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result or he's not expecting what he knows he's not getting from these actions.

An ulterior motive also has to be a result expected by the person who has it other than the outcome they are helping to achieve, such as finding Yumi a job, that in itself would be disqualified as an ulterior motive because that is the outcome both of the two characters involved are expecting. For this case, he would have to be expecting Yumi or Rin to give him something in return for both of the above inline spoilered cases that is not Yumi getting a job and Rin getting through her emotional rough patch, but he shows no signs he was doing them expecting anything in return for those specific actions. Throughout the story, the majority of his actions do have one very specific expected result, sex with a girl, and that would indeed be an ulterior motive but that is seemingly absent in both of the above cases.

As far as Nodoka, not sure how it would be considered cucking to suck a guy off in front of a girl who constantly shows hostility toward the guy being sucked off. If she was actually showing her true feelings openly, because tsundere plus what you revealed above, and Nodoka knew about them, then yeah, but she shows the opposite almost full time and the few times she doesn't she's showing herself to be neutral at best. I could see it as Nodoka making a move on a guy who is clearly open to her and apparently not taken by Yumi, however, and I could see this as the sexual harassment it is without even considering it cucking Yumi.

Again with Noriko, Ami wasn't giving him a choice. Saying no to a girl like Ami is possibly a death sentence later plus an immediate forced...well, I'm not even sure it would have stopped where it did if he had said no, in fact, she probably would have taken the opportunity to go further if she had to take the lead because he refused her advances. Taking an action, even knowing someone is there, without a choice isn't cucking. Ami, however, would be cucking Noriko if she knew Noriko was there, but her presence was only revealed part way into the action and both of the others were unaware up to that point.

You more or less just said what Nodoka has been saying, just with an added caveat that he has "good in him" which I dont recall Nodoka ever saying he didn't, so I'm not sure why you'd say she's wrong.

Nodoka's whole thing is wanting the real Sensei:
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There's a reason Sensei is secretly envious of her, while considering her an ideal version of himself:
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Sensei is similar to a Nodoka that is cowardly and delusional in a way.

Hence, why he's using Nodoka as an outlet for the feelings he hides from everyone else:
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Nodoka is someone just like him:
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Honestly, I find it a little hilarious how Nodoka seems to be demonized when Sensei could be seen as a much worse, more experienced, and much more cowardly version of her, except, you know, twice her age with a cock. Sensei makes her look good in comparison imo.
They both get demonized for their respective actions and both rightfully so. It doesn't really matter which one is worse, both would be jailed for what they have done in real life, they are both the morally worst characters in the game, yes, even Otoha beats them and she's a known willing cheater who does nothing to hold up her end of a relationship and treats her lovers like they don't even exist, like complete garbage, or like everything is their fault, possibly all of the above combined. You don't really need a ranking once two or more people go into criminal territory, they both get the same thing out of it when caught. Yes, Nodoka is morally better than Sensei, but that doesn't make her good.
 

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
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It's not grooming to help them, the other cases yeah, but there was no apparent grooming or even sex based motive behind the specific actions I mentioned. The majority of his actions, yes, they would have a sex based motive and would be grooming because they are working toward his goal of fucking them and blatantly so for anyone other than the girls he's trying not to broadcast this motive to.

However, when even he questions why he does something and he's helping a girl who isn't going to get any closer to opening her legs for him by being helped finding a job or a girl who isn't going to open her legs because he was there as emotional support when she got rejected or was depressed, then either he's insane by definition in that he's trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result or he's not expecting what he knows he's not getting from these actions.

An ulterior motive also has to be a result expected by the person who has it other than the outcome they are helping to achieve, such as finding Yumi a job, that in itself would be disqualified as an ulterior motive because that is the outcome both of the two characters involved are expecting. For this case, he would have to be expecting Yumi or Rin to give him something in return for both of the above inline spoilered cases that is not Yumi getting a job and Rin getting through her emotional rough patch, but he shows no signs he was doing them expecting anything in return for those specific actions. Throughout the story, the majority of his actions do have one very specific expected result, sex with a girl, and that would indeed be an ulterior motive but that is seemingly absent in both of the above cases.

As far as Nodoka, not sure how it would be considered cucking to suck a guy off in front of a girl who constantly shows hostility toward the guy being sucked off. If she was actually showing her true feelings openly, because tsundere plus what you revealed above, and Nodoka knew about them, then yeah, but she shows the opposite almost full time and the few times she doesn't she's showing herself to be neutral at best. I could see it as Nodoka making a move on a guy who is clearly open to her and apparently not taken by Yumi, however, and I could see this as the sexual harassment it is without even considering it cucking Yumi.

Again with Noriko, Ami wasn't giving him a choice. Saying no to a girl like Ami is possibly a death sentence later plus an immediate forced...well, I'm not even sure it would have stopped where it did if he had said no, in fact, she probably would have taken the opportunity to go further if she had to take the lead because he refused her advances. Taking an action, even knowing someone is there, without a choice isn't cucking. Ami, however, would be cucking Noriko if she knew Noriko was there, but her presence was only revealed part way into the action and both of the others were unaware up to that point.


They both get demonized for their respective actions and both rightfully so. It doesn't really matter which one is worse, both would be jailed for what they have done in real life, they are both the morally worst characters in the game, yes, even Otoha beats them and she's a known willing cheater who does nothing to hold up her end of a relationship and treats her lovers like they don't even exist, like complete garbage, or like everything is their fault, possibly all of the above combined. You don't really need a ranking once two or more people go into criminal territory, they both get the same thing out of it when caught. Yes, Nodoka is morally better than Sensei, but that doesn't make her good.
It is grooming when the goal is fucking them. Affection points, mate.

Honestly, I thought Sensei being insane by the repetition thing was a given. He does continue to do stuff expecting different outcomes at times. His life is very repetitive.

Nevertheless, his grooming definitely worked on Yumi and Rin. Yumi literally gave him the opportunity to do something to her, after he helped her:
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He just fucked up with the Nodoka stuff before going for the kill, and Rin's more or less open for business whenever he wants her:
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There's just a girlfriend in the way, and Otoha hasn't been groomed enough yet.

Sensei definitely expected that helping them would lead to him fucking them:
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There's unquestionably an ulterior motive here.

Yumi also does like Sensei. She's tsundere. Nodoka did know, and that's why she did it. Yumi got cucked.

Ami is a little girl who Sensei has literally sent to her room when he wanted. Hell, she's even giving him space because he asked for some, and has straight up admitted she'd kill herself if he died. This point is just ridiculous. Sensei definitely had a choice and he chose to face fuck his niece infront of a girl that loves him. Ami was trying to cuck Maya though for cucking her. Noriko only got caught in the crossfire here, because Sensei's a slut.

Of course it matters who's worse, and "You don't really need a ranking once two or more people go into criminal territory", doesnt make any sense. Saying a word wrong can make you a criminal, but according to that statement, they might as well be a mass murderer, as it doesn't matter once you "go into criminal territory". I'd also put the likes of Kirin, and Yumi as worse than Nodoka. Not as bad as Sensei though.
 
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AgumenticR

Member
Sep 6, 2018
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He would if he wanted his other partners like Chika to not find out and stop having sex with him. He's a slut, and a smart one. He's not trying to end up with less sex.
Not only we see internal dialogue that contradicts that reasoning, it doesn't even make sense. He'd be at worst exchanging one girl for several others, and that isn't likely. Moreover, it couldn't be a reason for changing the sexual relationships he already in.
Sekai actually seemed to care more about Sensei than he does for a few of these girls he's fucking, tbh.
Yeah, and that kind of care was so destructive it scarred him for life. Understandably, he feels rather hesitant to try and care for anyone else with education like that.
Nah, if he really didn't want to indulge in them, he wouldn't indulge in them. The feeling bad part has nothing to do with the desires themselves, it's about how they make him look to others and himself.
If he wanted to indulge without feeling bad, he would simply not feel bad. He instead wants to not want to indulge, and feels bad because he can't, one way or another.
 

wamzzz

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Sep 28, 2021
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Not only we see internal dialogue that contradicts that reasoning, it doesn't even make sense. He'd be at worst exchanging one girl for several others, and that isn't likely. Moreover, it couldn't be a reason for changing the sexual relationships he already in.
The problem here is that you're thinking rationally. Sensei isn't. He doesn't want some of the girls, he doesn't want most of the girls. He wants all of them.
 
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Angiboat

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Jun 22, 2020
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The problem here is that you're thinking rationally. Sensei isn't. He doesn't want some of the girls, he doesn't want most of the girls. He wants all of them.
Sensei isn't a complete animal that can't think except with his dick.
He can and does hold back when necessary, and even though his goal is having sex with as many people as possible, he also knows when to dial it down, like when you can decide to hold off on Chika for Rin, or when he friendzones (sorry her name completely slipped from my mind right now) black girl, or... simply when you can decide whether to fuck Ami or not.

Is he rational when he decides to have sex with more and more girls even though there's the risk of Chika catching him and thus him losing one girl? No, but it makes sense, that's how most people who cheat on their partners operate; what he will and does do is just try and lower the chances of being caught. Same way he wasn't trying to make excuses and was ready to let go of Futaba and Makoto when they bring it up to him at the beach.
 
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wamzzz

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Sep 28, 2021
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Sensei isn't a complete animal that can't think except with his dick.
He can and does hold back when necessary, and even though his goal is having sex with as many people as possible, he also knows when to dial it down, like when you can decide to hold off on Chika for Rin, or when he friendzones (sorry her name completely slipped from my mind right now) black girl, or... simply when you can decide whether to fuck Ami or not.

Is he rational when he decides to have sex with more and more girls even though there's the risk of Chika catching him and thus him losing one girl? No, but it makes sense, that's how most people who cheat on their partners operate; what he will and does do is just try and lower the chances of being caught. Same way he wasn't trying to make excuses and was ready to let go of Futaba and Makoto when they bring it up to him at the beach.
He does hold back, but that's because he literally has all the time in the world to slowly chip away at them. He's not in a particular hurry. I would also argue that his current streak of actually caring for the girls is a more recent development and an inconsistent one at that.

He took Miku into her room instead of giving her proper care just because he was paranoid it would land back on him somehow. He mostly brushed off Futaba's worries about people finding out about them. His situation with Chika is complicated especially now that he's starting to have these weird things called "feelings". Now he's trapped in an almost impossible situation but that hasn't stopped him from trying to get his dick wet with everyone else.
 

wamzzz

Newbie
Sep 28, 2021
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A reminder that Sensei literally shot down Imani last update.
Sure, but he was also more than willing to have a threesome with her in the one right before that.

Edit: I should also clarify that this is mostly applicable to the main girls, his class, and the ones he ultimately wants to corrupt and take for himself. The Side Girls are a nice bonus but not necessarily his focus.
 

wamzzz

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Sep 28, 2021
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"Willing to have a threesome" - and he actually asked Niki to stop, she just ignored him - is very different from "wants to fuck every girl". For that matter, we can literally avoid having sex with some of the heroines.
"Oh no please, I don't want to have a threesome! That sounds terrible! If anyone agrees to this, the sex stops right now!"

And sorry yeah, I edited a previous comment about it being the main girls. You can skip quite a few of the side girls already.
 

DSasha

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Jul 31, 2023
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Anyway, How long did it take you to read the game?

Doing the math, because I haven't finished yet and I don't remember the exact dates either, it took me two months to reach these last events; not reading evey day because stuff, and also at the same time reading other things but mainly this.
At first I thought I was reading it pretty fast but when I realized that I had already been reading this for two whole months (I'm now finalizing chapter 3) it seemed like too long. Lately I haven't had much time to finish the third chapter but I want to do it quickly so I can take some time and re-read it to settle certain things, see differences and at the same time see how long it takes me to read it from beginning to end.

Which leads me to wonder, has anyone here read the game more than once? The game it's pretty extense by now but I usually read/watch things twice at least so I can have a better persepective from things.

Also when I was about start playing this, I was reading in a russian forum a disscusion about Selebus being or not a graphomaniac or something, and at first while reading the first chapter, I must say that I totally agreed with that, there were too many paragraphs that I considered very unnecessary, and the fact that Selebus was always so attentive to how many words he wrote per update and how often I've read this being the longest VN ever and things like that, it kind of emphasized to me more the fact that he is a graphomaniac.
Though to be honest, I don't know if it is because of the habit of reading this, the love I have for the game or because Selebus has been able to improve in his writing, I don't notice that type of things as much anymore, however for a game that has more than two million words, it doesn't seem to me that the game has advanced that much, not only in the main plot, but also in the story of each character, I think the events usually have a lot of text but little progress so yeah, kinda weird
 
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AgumenticR

Member
Sep 6, 2018
175
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"Oh no please, I don't want to have a threesome! That sounds terrible! If anyone agrees to this, the sex stops right now!"

And sorry yeah, I edited a previous comment about it being the main girls. You can skip quite a few of the side girls already.
You can also avoid Ami and maybe Sana, depending on the role skipping that event will play. At the very least, it's definitely possible to pick an option that avoids Sana for a time being.
 
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Angra Shadow

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Jun 6, 2023
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Nah, if he really didn't want to indulge in them, he wouldn't indulge in them. The feeling bad part has nothing to do with the desires themselves, it's about how they make him look to others and himself.
This reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite stories:

"Feeling guilt but not acting on it is, by nature, a product of calculation. You were forced to make the decision, but you weren't brave enough to take on the sin. So you stepped back, passing the actual work to someone else and chose the path of a bystander who neither helps nor mediates."

I've always felt like it was the perfect quote for Sensei's character, with the Ayane-Kirin, Yumi-Nodoka and Miku-Io situations being prime examples of that. He tends to feel a lot of guilt but never really does anything about it, it's more of a way for him to feel like he isn't a bad person. He thinks about how he is a bad person as a way to justify his immoral choices and actions, but in reality he breaks down very badly the moment his choices and actions (and in some cases inaction) have real consequences and tries to tell himself that he is actually a good person. He is, as you stated, a massive coward who runs away from responsibility and accountability every chance he gets.
 

wamzzz

Newbie
Sep 28, 2021
65
197
Anyway, How long did it take you to read the game?
I binged it earlier this year and it was around a week and a half. It does have a bit too much text, I was already forgetting about events in the first chapter by the time I got to the end of the update I was on (.28).
 
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ccxvidonaferens

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May 25, 2022
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I binged it earlier this year and it was around a week and a half. It does have a bit too much text, I was already forgetting about events in the first chapter by the time I got to the end of the update I was on (.28).
People often get confused thinking quantity equals quality. Sometimes less is more and brevity can be your friend.
 

DSasha

Member
Jul 31, 2023
108
163
I binged it earlier this year and it was around a week and a half. It does have a bit too much text, I was already forgetting about events in the first chapter by the time I got to the end of the update I was on (.28).
Damn, that is really fast lol, you were basically reading like a book per day (and big books)
 
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