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Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

4.10 star(s) 317 Votes
Discussion Reviews (317)
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Xiondingens

Active Member
Oct 25, 2018
676
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siegabro said:
Just like that, this is the whole conflict in Noriko's story, where she can't help but be jealous of her sister, yet tries to make her own path. Both Ayane and Noriko handle this with grace.
Click to expand...
But one could also argue that Noriko's actions are fueled by fear in that regard. What if all that keeps Akira from running away again is his reconnection to Nikki? How could she risk loosing him again by actually doing anything that could risk that connection?
 
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Xiondingens

Active Member
Oct 25, 2018
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Are Ayane and Kirin even still enemies? I mean sure, the friendship is gone for good. But i dont remember anything lately that would show those two to be enemies. :unsure:
 
LessonsInDissonance

LessonsInDissonance

Active Member
Oct 1, 2023
647
1,499
Dc345 said:
Since Sel wont answer the tough question how are these 5 ranked respectively?
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Click to expand...
1. Touka
2. Noriko
3. Futaba
4. Uta
5. Kirin

to those surprised to see futaba on the top 3, being gentle is not the same as being altruistic. I feel like it's very close between Noriko and Futaba, because while Futaba let's a lot of shit slide, it does feel like she has a very small sassy side.
Noriko when dissected properly is actually one of the kindest characters in the game. She got verbally abused by Prime maya and fake maya, she gets treated like shit all the time by multiple characters and always let's everything slide and just wants everybody to be happy regardless of what they do to her.
Nobody would've reacted the way she did when she found a certain uncle getting touchy with his niece while hiding in the closet.
Touka is the most kindest and altruistic person out of any character in the game. She is literally the beacon of "mommy" and the one who tries to take care of everybody, even if they are scumbags. Just because she has character and can be strict doesn't mean she cant be kind at the same time. She will go out of her way to make things hard for herself if it means being able to help someone. She will literally let anything slide and forgive you for all and will support you even financially, and she would do this even if she wasn't rich, in my opinion.

Uta just isn't as kind as the top 3 and Kirin doesn't need an explanation

EDIT:
I missread Karin for Kirin.

This whole list goes to shit now.

ill just put Karin top 2 behind touka. She really will do anything to help anyone. Could possibly compete with Touka.
 
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DeSkel15

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
2,552
8,443
siegabro said:
I think Ayane wanting to have sex on Ami's bed is probably the strongest counterargument to her kindness. But I always wrote it off as some mix of horniness and confusion, like acting out some guilty and forbidden desire. And it was still early on in her story (Ch2?), way before she found out about the time loops and stood up to Kirin. And even then she seemed remorseful. IIRC, she was then under a strong influence of the whole Kirin situation, and this feels like smth Kirin would do to assert dominance and get a secret petty revenge. It's as if Ayane was further poisoned by Kirin. But I view Ayane's later development as rejecting this way of doing things.

I should also correct myself on topic of her lacking jealosy. No, she definitely feels jealous of Maya and, at times, of Ami. What I initially meant when comparing her to Chika was, that unlike Chika, I don't remember Ayane getting actively hostile to other girls because of this. And I don't remember Ayane letting jealosy guide her actions (can't recall if Chika did this, but the point is not in Chika, but in Ayane not letting jealosy make her do truly bad things). I see Noriko the same way - she is very jealous of Niki and others, but never lets herself make an immoral choice due to this.


Noriko is very similar here. Just like Ayane, she wants to be the one. A notable difference would be her sex positivity and agreeing to let people lilke Kirin have her way with Sensei, but at the end of the day she wants to be the only one he really loves.


Not sure what you meant here. I interpreted this as Ayane referencing her encounter with Himawari and Himawari's promise that all shall be well and Ami wouldn't hurt her, so I didn't notice anything hostile to Maya here.


I wouldn't contrast Ayane to some extent wanting to take Maya's place with Noriko wishing her competitors good luck in a spirit of sportsmanship. Because here I see some of the clearest similarities:
- We're not told that Ayane actually wants to replace Maya and works towards that; it's implied that's what she wishes sometimes and probably feels guilty about. Just like that, this is the whole conflict in Noriko's story, where she can't help but be jealous of her sister, yet tries to make her own path. Both Ayane and Noriko handle this with grace.
- Noriko wishes Ayane good luck just like Ayane accepts Sana's feeling for Sensei in one of the recent updates. This is actually quite common at this point in the story and is similar not only between these two.

To sum up, I still see very strong similarities in their core character traits, to the point of them being almost the same character thrust into different life situations & problems and forced to develop in different ways. Among the girls in the class, for me these two are the easiest pick for two of the most similar characters
Click to expand...
Ayane actually tried to convince Sensei to fuck her on Ami's bed twice (first try got interrupted by Ami), and Sensei can fuck Ayane on Sana's bed towards the end of Chapter 3, as well, which seemed to also be Ayane's idea:
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The Kirin stuff is completely optional and doesn't really matter much because of it. Kirin and Ayane can even still be friends currently.

Nothing makes this look good.

Ayane refused to use Sara's name because she saw her as a threat once, but yeah she's not really threatening to jump people like Chika. Although she very clearly does not want to share or let anyone else have a chance with Sensei. Noriko actually supports others, including her sister, in trying to get with Sensei. Noriko wants to be loved, but being the only one isn't really the plan, as she seems to be perfectly fine with sharing him. Ayane also does get a little hostile when she thinks someone is trying to "steal" Sensei:
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Ayane spent hours with the Shapeshifter and was talking about why the world is like this when she said it was good news for her:
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Anyway, the point was she might have helped kill off Maya Prime, to steal her place, but it's not entirely clear yet. If so, she should at the least feel guilty.

Ayane acknowledging that someone, even Sana, wants Sensei, isn't anywhere close to Noriko wishing her own rivals luck, and wanting them to be happy. We also haven't seen the actual fallout of Sana admitting her feelings to Ayane (Ayane definitely acted strange). Sana actually seemed to grow closer to Noriko after it, ironically.

Overall: Until Noriko goes out of her way to fuck Sensei on Niki's or even Kirin's bed, I don't really see how they are all that comparable, beyond being outspoken about their love for Sensei. Ayane even seems far more stalkerish. Having pics of Sensei sleeping on her wall, and recently casually pulling out a copy of his phone.

Ayane's also straight, rich, and studies karate for fun. Noriko is bi, works, and delivers food to the homeless. Ayane carries guns. Noriko carries a pocket knife. Ayane will choke and slap people. Noriko hasn't even hurt a fly as far as I recall. Even when it comes to diets they are different.

If Noriko was actually like Ayane, Kirin would probably have issues with her like she does with Ayane and Karin.

Frankly, I see Kirin and Ayane as even more similar. Both get off on defiling the things of others, will betray the trust of their friends for Sensei's dick, are neglected by their parents, and gave away their virginity as soon as they could.

Edit: Ayane and Kirin also both have "loli" friends they are close with and actually tried to preserve their innocence at the start, until they became corrupted anyway. (Sana vs Miku)
 
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DeSkel15

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
2,552
8,443
Xiondingens said:
Are Ayane and Kirin even still enemies? I mean sure, the friendship is gone for good. But i dont remember anything lately that would show those two to be enemies. :unsure:
Click to expand...
They are actually still friends if you missed the Kirin Blackmail stuff. Unfortunately it was an optional arc and doesn't necessarily matter so far.
 
lolbob3

lolbob3

Newbie
Jan 19, 2020
26
47
siegabro said:
Also, all this talk about Ayane and Noriko made me realize smth hilarious. If they really are two most similar main characters, then Noriko's best friend, Kirin, is Ayane's worst enemy. Just like Noriko's lifelong foe, Maya, is one of Ayane's closest friends (and probably the closest one in Ch3, when Ami loses her marbles for good).
We need more interactions between these two and their friend groups :KEK:
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Now we just need Maya to become best friends with Kirin, is something like that even possible?

Hmm maybe New Maya could walk in on Kirin while Akira is banging her, that would be interesting too now that I think about it, maybe after they somehow become friends too. :sneaky:
 
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Xiondingens

Active Member
Oct 25, 2018
676
629
DeSkel15 said:
They are actually still friends if you missed the Kirin Blackmail stuff. Unfortunately it was an optional arc and doesn't necessarily matter so far.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, you are right. I completely forgot that this was optional. And now that i think about it, that was the wrong decision. Because now he cant really do anything with it because it was optional. What a missed oppurtunity.
 
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Xiondingens

Active Member
Oct 25, 2018
676
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Omg, i just did realize that it is even worse. Because it is optional and the game so linear, they are now both in a quantum state of been enemies and friends at the same time. So their friendship effectively still "ended" because they will have no big events together as friends, because that would be an event that wouldnt be impossible on the 100% route where they are no longer friends. And they also can no longer hang out with each other, because that as well would contradict their current state in the 100% route. So except maybe some lippservice, they are no longer actual friends. And that fact is what made it so easy to forget that choice was optional, because the fallout will be felt in the overall story either way.

Oh god, this really doesnt feel like it had been planned out at all.
 
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ratmanirl

Newbie
Nov 25, 2022
73
179
Being a pussy and letting everyone walk over you isn't a sign of "kindness" but "weakness"
LessonsInDissonance said:
1. Touka
2. Noriko
3. Futaba
4. Uta
5. Kirin

to those surprised to see futaba on the top 3, being gentle is not the same as being altruistic. I feel like it's very close between Noriko and Futaba, because while Futaba let's a lot of shit slide, it does feel like she has a very small sassy side.
Noriko when dissected properly is actually one of the kindest characters in the game. She got verbally abused by Prime maya and fake maya, she gets treated like shit all the time by multiple characters and always let's everything slide and just wants everybody to be happy regardless of what they do to her.
Nobody would've reacted the way she did when she found a certain uncle getting touchy with his niece while hiding in the closet.
Touka is the most kindest and altruistic person out of any character in the game. She is literally the beacon of "mommy" and the one who tries to take care of everybody, even if they are scumbags. Just because she has character and can be strict doesn't mean she cant be kind at the same time. She will go out of her way to make things hard for herself if it means being able to help someone. She will literally let anything slide and forgive you for all and will support you even financially, and she would do this even if she wasn't rich, in my opinion.

Uta just isn't as kind as the top 3 and Kirin doesn't need an explanation

EDIT:
I missread Karin for Kirin.

This whole list goes to shit now.

ill just put Karin top 2 behind touka. She really will do anything to help anyone. Could possibly compete with Touka.
Click to expand...
Yeah that comment about because "Touka is rich therefore she can't be kind" is just really weird. And ironically enough, someone who evaluates the character of people based on things they had no control over just kinda sounds like an asshole. :ROFLMAO:
 
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Xiondingens

Active Member
Oct 25, 2018
676
629
ratmanirl said:
Yeah that comment about because "Touka is rich therefore she can't be kind" is just really weird. And ironically enough, someone who evaluates the character of people based on things they had no control over just kinda sounds like an asshole. :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Yeah and if you had read the comment, you would maybe would have even noticed that i didnt talked about been kind, but about altruistic. Making a comment to someone you cant even be bothered to read, lets you kinda sound like an asshole.
 
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4.10 star(s) 317 Votes