Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[hentachi]

Can i get a recent save?

 

[alex2011]

They've been doing it in comics crowdfunding.

I don't follow comics projects, so I wouldn't have known about that one, they need to be stopped. If only we had someone with the guts to tell them off directly and take action against them if they do anything discriminatory. Sadly, because nobody has the guts is why they get away with this.

1) I don't think comparing consensual homosexual relationships to incest (even between adults) is realistic.
2) Whether or not you like it, the world sees these things pretty differently. For most of us, if our employers caught wind of us reading VNs with the content this one has, we'd most likely lose our jobs. The stuff in this one in particular can be quite taboo, and no one actually believes "indeterminate age" means these characters are biologically and legally adults.



Realistically we know Sel isn't fooling anyone. Question is how much will patreon really care. Probably the plausible deniability is enough for them to keep that monthly 10k coming in.

1. Both are seen as things to be banned in some areas, the former obviously more so than the latter because there is actual medical issues involved if a woman were to become pregnant through it. That said, these issues do not apply to games, so their logic also does not apply because no real people are involved.

2. Let's be honest, we'd lose our jobs if our employers caught us playing one of the usual porn games on here as well, no matter the content. You do have a point there, though, this would probably be seen even more unfavorably due to its content. As for indeterminate age, they are in high school and are in the same class, which means they could all VERY easily and canonically be 18+ as that is the typical age of astudent in their final year of high school. As we have never gone into that very specific amount of detail about their academic status, we can easily say they are possibly in that final year and therefore are 18+. However, what Patreon is doing is determining age by appearance alone, which is totally wrong because even some college girls look like Ami or the other smaller girls in the areas of chest size and height.

Oh, if Patreon ever does make any connection, they WILL terminate the LiL patreon page without hesitation, warning, or a second chance. Patreon is known for lacking mercy for repeat offenses. As for whether Selebus can fool anyone, we'll have to wait and hope we never find out. The only way we know it is successful is if we never hear about Patreon issues for this reason again for Selebus.

Alex, all the big tech companies, Patreon included, absolutely will and have banned ppl for politics and ideology and otherwise been the biggest pieces of shit imagineable.
But that's an OT rabbit hole.

Sel doesn't have anything to worry about in that regard, methinks.

In general:
It is absolutely shocking that it took Patreon this long.
I mean, don't you play for less than 20 minutes before Dream Ami fucks you?
And, the same thing happened with Harem Hotel a long time ago because of Ashley's character model and several of the girls are just straight up in that same ballpark.

Anyway, fuck Patreon but there is no reason to think they have anything out for Sel.

If anything, its probably the opposite for things to have been so placid for so long.

The only future threat to the game ala Patreon after the creation of the new version would be if a rising antagonism draws more of their attention.

I would love that from an aesthetic perspective but materially it could end very detrimentally for Sel and his mysterious partner Subeles
(the brains behind LIL, imo)

In any case I'm here for what the game has to say.
Shitting on Patreon sounds great.
Focusing on the game itself also sounds great.

So all, in all, its really just lost time unless future drama bubbles up.

I don't think so, either, considering he only ever talks about game development on there.

I agree, I kind of knew this was coming eventually and it really just surprises me it took them over a year when other projects with a lower profile got hit a long time ago, they just don't like flat girls with a short height, or love between family, even though none of it is real on any project funded on the platform.

I don't think they have anything out for Selebus, but they are still shady as hell and just as evil as if they did have it out for him. These practices are, to say the least, extremely discriminatory.

We do have to be careful of any potential connection between Selebus and Subeles, that could be deadly to the project as repeat offenses don't get another chance. They probably wouldn't even say anything, Selebus could just wake up one day to find his biggest source of funding gone.

I know my eye for detail isn't always that great, but in order for Runey to be compliant, wasn't the only change to her model the schoolgirl outfit getting replaced? She's still tiny and flat-chested. I remember being shocked that had to be the only change.

It was, but the issue with her is she was blatantly said to be a college student, automatically putting her out of the age range Patreon hates. They seemed to just be picking on her for being flat and wearing a uniform that, in real life, is associated with the Japanese middle school system. However, they also failed to realize that is not the only place in Japan that uses the sailor uniform. Others include high schools and a few colleges out of the few that use a uniform policy as opposed to casual dress. There was one other option Runey had in his case and he saw it as too drastic a change, that option being to change Ashley herself to not be flat.

In this case, not only are several girls practically flat, but some of them are tiny in height, making things so that even a boob size change won't help. They would have to be fully 'aged up' in order to be safe. This, of course, does not take into account the potential the entire high school has of being 18 exact considering they are all in the same class and not one word has been mentioned of what year they are in. The final year is usually around or after a student turns 18, making age in number a non-issue if that were to be the case.

 

[moodle]

This, of course, does not take into account the potential the entire high school has of being 18 exact considering they are all in the same class and not one word has been mentioned of what year they are in. The final year is usually around or after a student turns 18, making age in number a non-issue if that were to be the case.

No, it's explicitly said in multiple places that they're first-year highschoolers.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

No, it's explicitly said in multiple places that they're first-year highschoolers.

Evidence, please? I've been following this game since Selebus released the 0.8.0 Public Release, and I do not recollect anywhere that says the girls are first year highschoolers

 

[alex2011]

No, it's explicitly said in multiple places that they're first-year highschoolers.

Evidence, please? I've been following this game since Selebus released the 0.8.0 Public Release, and I do not recollect anywhere that says the girls are first year highschoolers

Same, I do remember explicitly seeing high school mentioned, but being first years is new to me unless I am forgetting early details again.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

Same, I do remember explicitly seeing high school mentioned, but being first years is new to me unless I am forgetting early details again.

And if it's early details, there's a good chance Selebus might change it as he's revamping all the early details around march 2022

 

[barglenarglezous]

Same, I do remember explicitly seeing high school mentioned, but being first years is new to me unless I am forgetting early details again.

I recall first-year being mentioned, but I cannot recall where. Looking for it, but there's a lot of content to dig through.

That said -- they do speak on multiple occaisions about who their teacher will be next year, which means they aren't in their final year. At best, they're one year away. But yeah, I recall seeing "first year" mentioned at least once.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Wait, I went out for a while and last I remember is all about people showering this game with praise, me included.
What happened?

 

[barglenarglezous]

Wait, I went out for a while and last I remember is all about people showering this game with praise, me included.
What happened?

Patreon did what Patreon does best, forcing an emergency rework of specific elements.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Patreon did what Patreon does best, forcing an emergency rework of specific elements.

I see...



Mind lending me one of your pitchforks and torches?

 

[KnightOwlSC]

We do have to be careful of any potential connection between Selebus and Subeles, that could be deadly to the project as repeat offenses don't get another chance.

As someone who has experience in discussions like this being used in court I find it ironic you're saying to be careful as you yourself are implying there is a connection between these two user accounts

 

[KnightOwlSC]

I once knew a girl who had a problem when she was younger which resulted in her parents having to decide when to start giving her hormone therapy so her body would mature but doing so would have other negative impacts so they had to delay it to point where she really looked like a LIL character even though she was older. I don't recall the name of that illness but let's just say the girls in LIL have it and file a complaint about patreon discriminating against women with developmental disabilities

 

[alex2011]

And if it's early details, there's a good chance Selebus might change it as he's revamping all the early details around march 2022

Very true, especially considering where that would likely be set up is in the very beginning. At least, to me as a writer, that's where I would probably put it if I added that much detail at all considering it is setup for the world itself that acts as part of an introduction to the original cast. With the rework coming up, it probably will be touched, making this a moot point since he can very easily just change first to third even if it does say first now.

I recall first-year being mentioned, but I cannot recall where. Looking for it, but there's a lot of content to dig through.

That said -- they do speak on multiple occaisions about who their teacher will be next year, which means they aren't in their final year. At best, they're one year away. But yeah, I recall seeing "first year" mentioned at least once.

Even second years would be too young for some sites, not here or else the game would have been booted off, but Patreon for sure. Basically anything other than the tail end of their third year, but that is assuming that everyone starts their third at age 17. I'll have to start digging myself, this not remembering issue, on my end, is really starting to bug me.

Wait, I went out for a while and last I remember is all about people showering this game with praise, me included.
What happened?

Patreon finally noticed the game has potentially incestuous ties and girls who are short and flat. Okay, almost flat, still, flat enough they don't like it.

I see...



Mind lending me one of your pitchforks and torches?

Take one of mine, but you might want to wear a radiation suit, it's nuclear powered.

As someone who has experience in discussions like this being used in court I find it ironic you're saying to be careful as you yourself are implying there is a connection between these two user accounts

Oh no, not at all. For the record, there is no connection between these, obviously, two very different people. Selebus might turn the game into something that may or may not fire back at Patreon over this, but Subeles is just doing us all a service and taking over the original development so Selebus can't be held responsible without options to respond to the unfair treatment of a developer, potentially legally, for the actions of a simple player and modder of the game.

What, are they going to force him to use DRM or something else to stop mods? Like that would work, we have people here that can crack that stuff and I'm sure Subeles would help if that happened. Hell, I would be VERY willing to dust off my programming skills and try to crack it myself if Patreon pulled a stunt like that.

I once knew a girl who had a problem when she was younger which resulted in her parents having to decide when to start giving her hormone therapy so her body would mature but doing so would have other negative impacts so they had to delay it to point where she really looked like a LIL character even though she was older. I don't recall the name of that illness but let's just say the girls in LIL have it and file a complaint about patreon discriminating against women with developmental disabilities

I have a college friend who is short and not well endowed to say the least, she looks so young that she could have passed as my daughter, not to mention being able to pass as middle schooler, while I myself don't look all that much older and definitely don't look my actual age, which isn't that high, but is high enough that most people would look older than I do.

You do not want to know how many times she has actually been mistaken for an actual middle schooler and it was only when she spoke in frustration or showed ID that things got cleared up. Yeah, she has it rough as far as apparent age to put it lightly. She actually looks quite a bit like Maya or Ami, not kidding. Obviously she doesn't have the anime style features they do, the ones real people can't have, but she does have the sizes in both height and bust. Also, unlike pretty much the entire cast, you do not want to be on the receiving end after she gets called a kid, flat, short, anything about her appearance that could pass as calling her underage, she does not take that well...at all. It is amusing on the sidelines, though.

I actually hadn't thought about going the complaint route, and he would get a serious following if he made the complaint public. Seriously, this could get Patreon canceled if he did it because, if there is one thing cancel culture dislikes, it's discrimination against any kind of minority or against women.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Patreon finally noticed the game has potentially incestuous ties and girls who are short and flat. Okay, almost flat, still, flat enough they don't like it.

Forget potential this one already has it.
Someone's staring at me to death.


Oh well, I wonder if they can do what Kagur- Smeagol games do in steam releases where they release a patch somewhere.

 

[alex2011]

Forget potential this one already has it.
Someone's staring at me to death.


Oh well, I wonder if they can do what Kagur- Smeagol games do in steam releases where they release a patch somewhere.

The game's hero, Subeles, already has a handle on that and he'll get that version out when it is ready while Selebus handles the, now Patreon neutered, version of the game.

 

[Raf-Raf]

The game's hero, Subeles, already has a handle on that and he'll get that version out when it is ready while Selebus handles the, now Patreon neutered, version of the game.

Lot better than the game being cancelled.
I'll take it.

 

[Wafflewaffuru]

(Lessons in Love. but only the 18+ version)

 

[spam24601]

Not in how enthusiastically he complies, but in how well he responds otherwise. We already know based on his plans for the Patreon rework that he is far from enthusiastic about complying, in fact, it almost sounds like he plans to turn this into something that takes occasional shots at Patreon because they did this to him. There is nothing to worry about at this time in regards to him willingly demolishing his game on the whims of Patreon.

As for the Patreon version itself, if not one letter or one dot is compromised, Patreon will simply shut him down. This was not a suggestion to remove any underage or incestuous leanings, it was an ultimatum. The only decision he has in the matter is how he handles the rework within Patreon orders.

Ah, I did not intend to imply that he should rebel against Patreon or martyr himself. Of course he should seek to preserve his income. I merely sought to object to the idea that putting a lot of effort into writing an all ages version at the behest of Patreon's advertiser-driven policy would somehow prove Selebus' writing ability or be a worthwhile endeavor. It is simply that I do not believe there is any gain in investing effort into complying with this beyond the point neccessary to maintain his income, and that he should continue to write according to his vision (as he himself would desire to do).

 

[alex2011]

Ah, I did not intend to imply that he should rebel against Patreon or martyr himself. Of course he should seek to preserve his income. I merely sought to object to the idea that putting a lot of effort into writing an all ages version at the behest of Patreon's advertiser-driven policy would somehow prove Selebus' writing ability or be a worthwhile endeavor. It is simply that I do not believe there is any gain in investing effort into complying with this beyond the point neccessary to maintain his income, and that he should continue to write according to his vision (as he himself would desire to do).

I didn't see any implication, I just think he might take occasional shots. He has been known to do things in opposition before, such as adding the puzzle to "There is Nothing" in response to complaints before the update that added that event. He even admitted to that one specifically somewhere in this thread. As far as how it would serve to test him, writers tend to be better when set free, at least in my experience as a writer, so the test is how well he is able to cope with being heavily restricted. He wanted to make the elements he has to change a part of his story, but Patreon said no and now he has to adapt.

As for his vision, that has now been handed over to Subeles to be continued as it already was before this mess, leaving no connection to Selebus for Patreon to strike at because the actiions of a player and/or modder are not the developer's responsibility nor are they within the control of the developer.

 

[mannice431]

Hah, i was watching a few scenes in the gallery with Ayane and Sana, and in one scene she is willing to "share" Sensei with Sana but in a later scene she's asking Sensei who he would pick from all the girls around him.

That's one of the things that i really like about this game, it really does captures the teenage adolescent mind well, there are no certainties, these girls are little bundles of pent-up emotion, you never really feel like you truly know how these girls think (which is how it should be).

I also like the realistic take on how a harem would actually play out, i know i've harped on this before but i really like the genre subversions this game has going for it.