Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[Pervyfox]

Also, fuck you.

What, why? surely you didn't look at the spoiler that clearly says not to if you love chinami

 

[Bingoogus]

What, why? surely you didn't look at the spoiler that clearly says not to if you love chinami

'Course i fucken looked, i am a grown man and will not be bossed around by the written word!

 

[Pervyfox]

fine, in recompense take these two requests and a fanart

Spoiler

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[DeSkel15]

Spoiler: About Sensei Dying

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As for the resets, we have Mangle Ami in there but yeah, there's no evidence she is the same as Psycho Ami at all. She tries to lure Sensei out of the rooftop unsuccesfully. So, whatever it is, it's not OP during resets, her powers doesn't seem to come from it. Then again, could be that she is not directly related to the "real" Ami, just a representation in Sensei's mind and it doesn't even matter...

Considering Maya distinguishes between Sensei having his mind wiped and him dying, it seems like they are notably different things in her experience. She's also seemed to experience both separately enough to distinguish them. Overall: Makoto's experiences seems to imply that death doesn't do much except traumatize.

Speaking of Mangled Ami, she seems unable to get to the roof, which would mean she's actually tried to before. I'm not sure if it's because she's a "memory" or because she's an "Ami", but it does seem relevant to why Psycho Ami isn't just around 24/7 making the world the way she wants it. Ami might simply be barred from the rooftop. Of course it could definitely be irrelevant. Btw, Mangled Ami seemed to be involved in why Maya almost missed that one reset:

Spoiler

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as well as involved with the "Callous god":

Spoiler

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So, I definitely think she's more than just a delusion.

 

[DeSkel15]

Dont go any higher pls xd I want to be alive for the end of the game xdd

Imagine we just pull a Maya. Thousands of years later, still waiting, but also being unable to play it anyway. True Hell.

 

[DeSkel15]

Ami being that small beating Yumi in a way or another (she could poison her or go straight to stab her with a knife or something) give a dangerous vibe so maybe even Tsuneyo may be not able to stop ami at all

Psycho Ami could also just mind control others or bend reality. Not entirely clear. I do think Tsuneyo has some supernatural abilities though compared to Yumi. Tsuneyo can actually be talked to during the resets, and seems to have the ability to recall resets that happened before the current Sensei.

 

[DeSkel15]

Torture the girls until they realize that they shouldn't fall in love with sensei. Torture sensei until he realizes that the only girl for him is the one and only Ami. It's not logical and she probably doesn't know that sensei will be hard reset, basically undoing what she "teaches" him, so I don't think deleting him is the goal despite that it's probably always the end result. You have to remember, she's already mentally gone and the only thing that's scotch taping her mind together is the belief that she's the only girl that Sensei truly loves, sexually and romantically.

Psycho Ami does seem to influence Sensei's mind though. Hence the whole "Ami is so cute" stuff. Overall: Psycho Ami definitely seems like a flawed concept, but yeah that could be the point.

 

[butterfly boy]

Psycho Ami does seem to influence Sensei's mind though. Hence the whole "Ami is so cute" stuff. Overall: Psycho Ami definitely seems like a flawed concept, but yeah that could be the point.

I think it's not really mind manipulation. My theory is that after years of taking care of Sensei, Ami knows exactly what to say to shut his brain down so she can make him more obedient, which is what happened in Mama's girl.

 

[Dioo8]

My theory is maya killing Ami Before every Reset just my intuition

 

[FireCazador]

Psycho Ami could also just mind control others or bend reality.

I think the same, like Psyco Ami can do some supernatural shit

 

[DeSkel15]

Because I'm cryptic Ok, it seems nobody understood what i ment so I'll explain:

There was fair assumption that there is no permament death in Kumon-mi. It was kind of implied when Maya explained resets and kind of confirmed by Bluejay. Kind of

1) As I mentioned far earlier, it was Makoto's fall from rooftop prevented so there is no link to return of people already dead
2) Maya had no idea what's wrong with Makoto. It is directly implies it was not something ususal

On the other hand, all creatures with confirmed death haven't return (I.e. todd, Makoto's dad). "There is no permament death" hypotises happens to be based on nothing.

This was a context. Now, to the facts I droped before:

There was a "plot hole" (1): Sensei's class is only 10/20 while Wakana already has almost full class.
Previously it could be explained only with ad-hoc (like it was Sensei's rokie year or smth like that, so he received special threatment). Hower, given that "initial" cycle setup may change between hard resets (2) and confirmed numerous cases of in-class homicide (3), there is "natural" explanation which does not require any ad-hocs: half of class are already dead.

I think, it is a direct call for Occam's razor. This what I was thinking about

Not quite, I think you skipped over how Maya implied that things like Makoto, after the jump, have happened before:

Spoiler

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which seems to imply other girls have faced death and been traumatized before, among other things.

Maya also seemed convinced the roof doesn't really matter:

Spoiler

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We also have later stuff like Makoto seemingly implying she's tried killing herself after her father died:

Spoiler

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Not to mention, Makoto's father dying is something obviously new, so I don't think it's fair to assume something outside the usual is suddenly the usual. Makoto's father also seems permanently gone unlike others, just like Todd. Their deaths are definitely exceptions to the norm, and even the resets themselves haven't brought them back.

As for the rest, as far as has been revealed, there has never been other girls besides Molly and Tsuneyo before. Maya specifically notes it's either 10 or 12:

Spoiler

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Maya could be lying, or there could have been resets before Maya, but overall, what we have to go on suggests that it's just always been 10 and rarely 12 untill now. Why? Probably related to why the resets happen, characters get stuck on repeat, and there's only two seasons.

Maya also seems to confirm that Psycho Ami doing whatever she did had no lasting consequences (besides likely on Maya's mental state), as there isn't a single girl in the class before all of the transfers that Psycho Ami hadn't, well, gone psycho on, yet the class is still here however many resets later, and so is Maya, who has also seemed to imply that Psycho Ami has killed her as well:

Spoiler

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Unless Ami has never truly wanted to kill Maya, or Maya is just exaggerating for some reason.

 

[DeSkel15]

I think it's not really mind manipulation. My theory is that after years of taking care of Sensei, Ami knows exactly what to say to shut his brain down so she can make him more obedient, which is what happened in Mama's girl.

Yeah, I can see that. But it also did seem to work on Io and Uta before:

Spoiler

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I mean, I wouldn't really call it mind control, but it definitely seems to be somewhat supernatural. I think it's just a part of her "Cute Girl Magic", but who knows what the Psycho version could really do with it.

 

[Juice86]

It's interesting to see all the Ami discussion now that a big hint was dropped in everyone's face.

There's been subtle hints of her doing some bad shit since as early as chapter 2 start.

 

[Bingoogus]

Um... kinda just want to say, Makoto's dad isn't dead, he isn't anything, he's functionally non-existent, from the moment the game starts he is never corporeally factualized, the only thing we have is his apparent history pre-spacewar and a short automated message about his 'death', that's it, so i kinda figure speaking about anything to do with his actual death is completely meaningless, all that matters is the message, who sent it, and it's effects... no?

Kinda weird using his 'death' as an example of observed deaths in-game given that no? I wouldn't think anything can be drawn from it to add or subtract from what actual in-game deaths are and can be.

 

[DeSkel15]

It's interesting to see all the Ami discussion now that a big hint was dropped in everyone's face.

There's been subtle hints of her doing some bad shit since as early as chapter 2 start.

Even the first event has Ami mentioning the plot and telling Sensei to ignore the space war. I think everyone's been suspicious of her since the get go, tbh. Kind of hard not to be.

We do finally have a reason for her to do bad things though. Knowing about the resets triggers her to become violent. According to Maya, anyway.

 

[JelF547]

Not quite, I think you skipped over how Maya implied that things like Makoto, after the jump, have happened before:

Spoiler

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which seems to imply other girls have faced death and been traumatized before, among other things.

Maya also seemed convinced the roof doesn't really matter:

Spoiler

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I don't understand what is your point. That Maya have seen broken people before? It would be strange if she wasn't. It would be more strange that she haven't seen something which we assume to be possible. My point was that she haven't acted like "holy shit, something attempted to kill Makoto" when she saw her broken.

However, the more I think than more I want to take that argument back, because Maya could just act as she don't know to protect Sensei from understanding what have he done. But it cannot be evidence for "nobody can die" theory anyway

We also have later stuff like Makoto seemingly implying she's tried killing herself after her father died:

Spoiler

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This scene has same meaniing as bluejay: when specificly Makoto tries to kill herself, she rollbacks. It is not like she rollback from the point she actualy dead. It is not like it is not specific to suicide attempts. It proves nothing but that some supernatural shit rollbacks specificly Makoto when she specificly attempts suicide.

And theory "nobody can die in Kumon-mi" might be a good generalization of specific evidence, but people actualy die. As long as we have only two cases and they are so similar, there is no way to reason any distinguisher between people who can die and people who cannot.

Not to mention, Makoto's father dying is something obviously new, so I don't think it's fair to assume something outside the usual is suddenly the usual. Makoto's father also seems permanently gone unlike others, just like Todd. Their deaths are definitely exceptions to the norm, and even the resets themselves haven't brought them back.

Can you please explain "obviously new"? If you mean it is first time her father is dead, wouldn't it imply that he obliviously cannot die twice?

Also, what makes you think that direct evidences agianst you theory are exceptions but not counter-proofs

As for the rest, as far as has been revealed, there has never been other girls besides Molly and Tsuneyo before. Maya specifically notes it's either 10 or 12:

Spoiler

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Maya could be lying, or there could have been resets before Maya, but overall, what we have to go on suggests that it's just always been 10 and rarely 12 untill now. Why? Probably related to why the resets happen, characters get stuck on repeat, and there's only two seasons.

Yep, Maya could be lying. It is not a big secret, that Maya is extremly cryptic about any knowledge that could damage her friends or Sensei. It would not be too hard to hide a secret if psyco Ami haven't occured in centuries

Maya also seems to confirm that Psycho Ami doing whatever she did had no lasting consequences (besides likely on Maya's mental state), as there isn't a single girl in the class before all of the transfers that Psycho Ami hadn't, well, gone psycho on, yet the class is still here however many resets later, and so is Maya, who has also seemed to imply that Psycho Ami has killed her as well:

Spoiler

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Unless Ami has never truly wanted to kill Maya, or Maya is just exaggerating for some reason.

Same argument, Maya is not a reliable source. Event that pieces of information was taken from her under serious pressure

It is safe to assume that Maya would not remember her own death if she ever died, so it is more like proof that Ami never truly wanted to kill specificaly Maya.

 

[JelF547]

By the way, I do not insist to specificaly death by psyco Ami. Why not death by curious Maya, for example?

 

[DeSkel15]

Um... kinda just want to say, Makoto's dad isn't dead, he isn't anything, he's functionally non-existent, from the moment the game starts he is never corporeally factualized, the only thing we have is his apparent history pre-spacewar and a short automated message about his 'death', that's it, so i kinda figure speaking about anything to do with his actual death is completely meaningless, all that matters is the message, who sent it, and it's effects... no? Kinda weird using his 'death' as an example of observed deaths in-game given that no?

If someone was specifically talking about seen deaths, in game, sure. We never seen it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or is irrelevant to deaths as a whole. That's without getting into the whole "perception" angle.

 

[Juice86]

Even the first event has Ami mentioning the plot and telling Sensei to ignore the space war. I think everyone's been suspicious of her since the get go, tbh. Kind of hard not to be.

We do finally a reason for her to do bad things though. Knowing about the resets triggers her to become violent. According to Maya, anyway.

Yeah in hindsight there's plenty of clues, you're right

But I'm talking about actual good writing that's dropping subtle hints that you catch first time around.
For me anyway, i've been getting strange vibes from Amy from around Chapter 2 onwards. During chapter 1 I wasn't as invested in the lore/story etc. I'm sure it's there. I just didn't see it.

I think it's a mark of a good story teller to drop those moments in and have player pat themselves on back for putting it together. I don't have a really good imagination and I picked up on it, so most players will. It's impressive story writing for sure.

you guys reminded me that celebus also gave the intelligence rating for side characters.
here it is: View attachment 2702453

Interesting... I mostly agree.
Probably just bump Chinami up a bit and Sara down a bit. Rest seems pretty accurate.

Did they ever do one for the main characters? That would be far more interesting.

 

[BlackDays]

I think the death of Makoto's father (and i agree that he was never real to begin with (which might count for almost all Kumonmi inhabitants)) was an ingame "plot device" to make Makoto act a certain way, or to initiate a specific chain of events.
Maybe crafted by one of the "gods".

And while the Oak Door event is missable, it might be the outcome of her fathers death. Missable but still happening behind the curtains nonethless. What i mean is, Akira "implementing" his "DNA" into her.