Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[blackredfish]

Also, I want to point out that Maya was wholly justified in not telling Ayane about Psycho Ami. Look at her in that scene. She's now TERRIFIED of Ami. Girl has no poker face.

She didn't need to give out the details about psycho Ami, I can understand that. She still could have done a better job in convincing Ayane how much of a bad idea was trying to bring Ami on their side. That conversation ended pretty much in "ok do whatever you want and see what happens and I'll tell you I told you so", how is that justified? Be more forceful without saying too much, she convinced Ayane of not having sex for months, she can do this or give it a better try at the least. Granted, after being wrong with the pregnant thing, Ayane could be more reluctant in following orders, but that shouldn't stop Maya, she actually knew the outcome of this. Heck, it's fine, let Ayane disobey Maya anyway, you provided her with a reason and shit needs to happen but an argument like this should have taken place. That's all I ask.

Also, it's the first time a "roof survivor" Ayane knows about psycho Ami so Maya had no real precedent on how she would react. I'd love to give her a pass but I can't do it just yet.

Other than that I totally agree with your post.

 

[DeSkel15]

So if this “something” is one of the supernatural interventions, what are the odds of it exploiting this strained friendship to lure both girls out in the middle of the night?

There is one supernatural person/thing that might actually want to separate Ami and Maya, perhaps more than anything else.

Sekai.

She loves Ami:

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But seems to hate Maya:

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She's seemingly had Kaori ignore Maya, so I do wonder how she feels about Maya being her daughter's best friend.

How she could have set this up, I'm not sure, but it's not like what Sekai can or can't do, has been firmly established yet.

 

[DeSkel15]

But what really does it for me is how out of character (and creepy) she was in accepting to give Sensei more space. I mean, compare it to how she reacted in the previous update:

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Why the sudden change of heart? She didn't have a serious fight with Sensei to reconsider it like that. He was actually feeding off her hand the night before. And a little reprimand for how she was treating her friends is not nearly enough imo. We'll see I guess.

Well, Ami did know that Sensei wanted space, and felt like her best friends were leaving her behind, then she got lost in the middle of nowhere all by herself, which she claims to think is because of her friends, but Sensei finds her, brings her home, and spends the night telling her he loves her.

I could see Ami being traumatized by that experience if it was actually real, which could have made her revaluate things.

This whole space thing could be her trying to make sure Sensei doesn't feel suffocated, then actually tries to leave her:

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He might literally be the only person she can trust to love her in her point of view at the moment, and she can't afford to upset him.

Or she's gone Psycho and needs time to figure out the best way to sodomize the class.

 

[Vega Cifer]

Hey, can anyone show what the extra scene with Haruka and Maki is for the vacation thing? Or was that Haruka getting pegged?

 

[DeSkel15]

I was today years old when I realized the 'Something everyone knows and ignores' event:

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Is actually Sekai's name.

• Something
• Everyone
• Knows
• And
• Ignores

S.E.K.A.I.

It's literally something I knew and ignored. Lmao.

 

[DeSkel15]

Hey, can anyone show what the extra scene with Haruka and Maki is for the vacation thing? Or was that Haruka getting pegged?

Haruka gets pegged and spit roasted, but yeah that's a scene you can miss.

 

[Vega Cifer]

Haruka gets pegged and spit roasted, but yeah that's a scene you can miss.

Oh alright good, then I definitely got that. And it was pretty hot ngl

 

[DeSkel15]

Oh alright good, then I definitely got that. And it was pretty hot ngl

It was definitely interesting. Sensei better watch his ass from now on, though:

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[Bingoogus]

He might literally be the only person she can trust to love her in her point of view at the moment, and she can't afford to upset him.

Honestly, one thing that really pisses me off about half the characters in this story is the same thing that pisses me of in half of all the stories i consume, people don't just fuckin talk their issues out properly, if at all, like fuck, if i was Akira i'd be sitting her down and saying something like "ok, ffs Ami, you NEED to stop worrying about losing me, i'm never ever going to drop you, you have me for life, that doesn't mean you have me all to yourself, i want to hang out with your classmates, i want to hang out with my adult friends, but you will always be dear to me, you'll never have to move out and make a life for yourself without me so stop with all this possessive stalker crap, that's the sort of shit that could land you in an insane asylum and i don't want to lose you to that so just chill, just chill and we can be together as we have been for as long as we live."

Now, i recognise that would be absurd to hear coming from his lips but that seems to encapsulate his thoughts and feeling pretty well and full informs Ami of her options and what to do to keep her happy bubble safe and what will happen if she goes to far this way or that way. I'm not saying it'd work, but at least there'd be none of this obfuscated masking shit, if she rejects it then it'd be good if she could be just as bluntly honest in return, let rip on Sensei and leave him fully informed on wtf she's going through.

Have em go back and forth at each other, get it ALL out and deal with it and then maybe, just maybe, shit could improve and work in a more healthy way.

But i guess that'd make for a boring game and it's why i am a reader, not a writer.

 

[Mushybird]

Honestly, one thing that really pisses me off about half the characters in this story is the same thing that pisses me of in half of all the stories i consume, people don't just fuckin talk their issues out properly, if at all, like fuck, if i was Akira i'd be sitting her down and saying something like "ok, ffs Ami, you NEED to stop worrying about losing me, i'm never ever going to drop you, you have me for life, that doesn't mean you have me all to yourself, i want to hang out with your classmates, i want to hang out with my adult friends, but you will always be dear to me, you'll never have to move out and make a life for yourself without me so stop with all this possessive stalker crap, that's the sort of shit that could land you in an insane asylum and i don't want to lose you to that so just chill, just chill and we can be together as we have been for as long as we live."

Now, i recognise that would be absurd to hear coming from his lips but that seems to encapsulate his thoughts and feeling pretty well and full informs Ami of her options and what to do to keep her happy bubble safe and what will happen if she goes to far this way or that way. I'm not saying it'd work, but at least there'd be none of this obfuscated masking shit, if she rejects it then it'd be good if she could be just as bluntly honest in return, let rip on Sensei and leave him fully informed on wtf she's going through.

Have em go back and forth at each other, get it ALL out and deal with it and then maybe, just maybe, shit could improve and work in a more healthy way.

But i guess that'd make for a boring game and it's why i am a reader, not a writer.

Was abouta say, the point of interesting characters is to have flaws. Obviously if you just make Mary and Gary-Sue's everywhere who always say the right thing at the right time, there's no conflict, nothing to engross yourself in. If anything, BECAUSE the characters make such incorrect decisions helps the plot get deeper and deeper into what makes them tick. And allows us as an audience to engross ourselves in the lives of characters who say stuff we would never dream of saying in real life. Also, Haruka's final event this update was the best, because I am Scum.

 

[Bingoogus]

Was abouta say, the point of interesting characters is to have flaws. Obviously if you just make Mary and Gary-Sue's everywhere who always say the right thing at the right time, there's no conflict, nothing to engross yourself in. If anything, BECAUSE the characters make such incorrect decisions helps the plot get deeper and deeper into what makes them tick. And allows us as an audience to engross ourselves in the lives of characters who say stuff we would never dream of saying in real life. Also, Haruka's final event this update was the best, because I am Scum.

I know, doesn't stop it being infuriating at times though, wanting to knock these dumbasses over the head can only really be borne out of giving a shit about them, the mark of good writing, but they're still dumbasses.

 

[BlackDays]

Honestly, one thing that really pisses me off about half the characters in this story is the same thing that pisses me of in half of all the stories i consume, people don't just fuckin talk their issues out properly, if at all, like fuck, if i was Akira i'd be sitting her down and saying something like "ok, ffs Ami, you NEED to stop worrying about losing me, i'm never ever going to drop you, you have me for life, that doesn't mean you have me all to yourself, i want to hang out with your classmates, i want to hang out with my adult friends, but you will always be dear to me, you'll never have to move out and make a life for yourself without me so stop with all this possessive stalker crap, that's the sort of shit that could land you in an insane asylum and i don't want to lose you to that so just chill, just chill and we can be together as we have been for as long as we live."

Now, i recognise that would be absurd to hear coming from his lips but that seems to encapsulate his thoughts and feeling pretty well and full informs Ami of her options and what to do to keep her happy bubble safe and what will happen if she goes to far this way or that way. I'm not saying it'd work, but at least there'd be none of this obfuscated masking shit, if she rejects it then it'd be good if she could be just as bluntly honest in return, let rip on Sensei and leave him fully informed on wtf she's going through.

Have em go back and forth at each other, get it ALL out and deal with it and then maybe, just maybe, shit could improve and work in a more healthy way.

But i guess that'd make for a boring game and it's why i am a reader, not a writer.

It's interesting isn't it.
Alot of people think this way. I did so too in the past and sometimes i still do even i do know better nowadays.
If you're not involved and look at things from the outside, they seem so clear, and easy to solve.
But if you're involved, those things change.

It's like you watch a movie, with whatever involved romantics. Guy could get the girl but seems to behave stupid.
And audience is all like: Oh fuck why is he/she not just telling him/her about whats going on.

But life is just not that easy if you are in that position.
Circumstances can drastically alter how'd one behave, if one is incabable of seeing things from the outside (because that one is hard).

But that is about real life. And i don't know how good of a writer Sel really is to incorporate what i said into his story, or if this is all just a strange plot device, or a plot hole.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

There is one supernatural person/thing that might actually want to separate Ami and Maya, perhaps more than anything else.

Sekai.

She loves Ami:

Spoiler

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But seems to hate Maya:

Spoiler

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She's seemingly had Kaori ignore Maya, so I do wonder how she feels about Maya being her daughter's best friend.

How she could have set this up, I'm not sure, but it's not like what Sekai can or can't do, has been firmly established yet.

Has always been wondering why Sekai’s attitude towards Maya is like this. Though it mostly happens in happy scenes, her distaste seems warranted enough to mean something. But what’s the cause?

I don’t think Sekai ever met Maya back when she was alive, nor could she start a serious qualm with a wizard; so Sekai most likely came up with an otherworldly reason to hate Maya only after she died, which pretty much is a literal extension to Maya’s idea of “this world hates me”.

I suppose the obvious reason would be Maya being a dent to this world built for Akira, a dent that perceives the cycle and perhaps at some point tries to break him out of it. But even this feels like talking out of my ass level with the amount of conjectures.
(Like trying to figure out why this most enigmatic girl hates the other most enigmatic girl is literally breaking my brain)

 

[Angiboat]

I don’t think Sekai ever met Maya back when she was alive, nor could she start a serious qualm with a wizard; so Sekai most likely came up with an otherworldly reason to hate Maya only after she died, which pretty much is a literal extension to Maya’s idea of “this world hates me”.

Maya and Ami are roughly the same age, Ami was old enough to understand what happened when her parents died in the accident, and at the time Sensei was still dating Niki and was tutoring her and Noriko + Maya.
So odds are they did know one another in some way.
Though I could be wrong since apparently there's some holes in Maya's backstory according to Ami but I don't remember which ones those were and it could also be Ami gaslighting.

 

[barglenarglezous]

It was definitely interesting. Sensei better watch his ass from now on, though:

He doesn't have to worry about Maki. Maki seems really big on consent.

However, if Ami ever catches him in the act with another girl, she might peg him as punishment.

 

[barglenarglezous]

But i guess that'd make for a boring game and it's why i am a reader, not a writer.

Nailed it.

Had a creative writing professor in college tell me "a good story is a series of interesting mistakes." I think of that every time somebody picks apart a character making a mistake in a movie that prevents the entire movie from happening.

If everybody makes the correct decisions, nothing of interest happens, there's no conflict (because they work it out the instant it arises), and people get tired of your story super quick. It's why I stopped playing My New Family -- every single conflict was talked out within 5 scenes and I got bored.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Honestly, one thing that really pisses me off about half the characters in this story is the same thing that pisses me of in half of all the stories i consume, people don't just fuckin talk their issues out properly, if at all, like fuck, if i was Akira i'd be sitting her down and saying something like "ok, ffs Ami, you NEED to stop worrying about losing me, i'm never ever going to drop you, you have me for life, that doesn't mean you have me all to yourself, i want to hang out with your classmates, i want to hang out with my adult friends, but you will always be dear to me, you'll never have to move out and make a life for yourself without me so stop with all this possessive stalker crap, that's the sort of shit that could land you in an insane asylum and i don't want to lose you to that so just chill, just chill and we can be together as we have been for as long as we live."

Now, i recognise that would be absurd to hear coming from his lips but that seems to encapsulate his thoughts and feeling pretty well and full informs Ami of her options and what to do to keep her happy bubble safe and what will happen if she goes to far this way or that way. I'm not saying it'd work, but at least there'd be none of this obfuscated masking shit, if she rejects it then it'd be good if she could be just as bluntly honest in return, let rip on Sensei and leave him fully informed on wtf she's going through.

Have em go back and forth at each other, get it ALL out and deal with it and then maybe, just maybe, shit could improve and work in a more healthy way.

But i guess that'd make for a boring game and it's why i am a reader, not a writer.

A group of flawed characters making less than optimal decisions is what makes stories interesting for easily bored person like myself; but I support your idea because if those decisions are quite unbearable while much better solutions are so easily within grasp, it comes down to writers putting efforts into making readers think in characters' shoes, while avoiding things becoming too drawn out because writers promote readers to think like idiot characters way too much and often and push them off their boundaries.

I get this pissed off feeling of yours especially when reading materials with teenagers or straight up dumbasses as protagonists, or revisiting materials I liked when I was one of the teenagers or straight up dumbasses. It gets harder to say "yea I feel you" or "yea I'd do the same" when you get older. Or in other people's cases, that boundary of theirs has always been understandably stringent from the start due to their backgrounds.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

Nailed it.

Had a creative writing professor in college tell me "a good story is a series of interesting mistakes." I think of that every time somebody picks apart a character making a mistake in a movie that prevents the entire movie from happening.

If everybody makes the correct decisions, nothing of interest happens, there's no conflict (because they work it out the instant it arises), and people get tired of your story super quick. It's why I stopped playing My New Family -- every single conflict was talked out within 5 scenes and I got bored.

This discussion reminds of a piece of party banter from Dragon Age Inquisition between Cassandra and Varric that it took me a little while to find again that I think puts across the need for conflict within a story quite nicely.

• Cassandra: Varric, how could you let the Knight-Captain be framed for murder?
• Varric: Well, I did spent three entire chapters setting it up.
• Cassandra: But she didn't deserve it! You'd already put her through more than enough!
• Varric: Look, Seeker, if you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer. Maybe even throw in a heroic death.
• Cassandra: That makes no sense!
• Varric: You care enough to argue. If she had a nice afternoon and took a nap, you'd stop reading.

 

[barglenarglezous]

This discussion reminds of a piece of party banter from Dragon Age Inquisition between Cassandra and Varric that it took me a little while to find again that I think puts across the need for conflict within a story quite nicely.

• Cassandra: Varric, how could you let the Knight-Captain be framed for murder?
• Varric: Well, I did spent three entire chapters setting it up.
• Cassandra: But she didn't deserve it! You'd already put her through more than enough!
• Varric: Look, Seeker, if you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer. Maybe even throw in a heroic death.
• Cassandra: That makes no sense!
• Varric: You care enough to argue. If she had a nice afternoon and took a nap, you'd stop reading.

Yup, I loved that banter.

As long as the mistakes they make are in-character for them, it's what keeps a good story going.

If they're making out of character bad decisions purely to stir the pot, that's when it becomes a problem.

 

[butterfly boy]

Honestly, one thing that really pisses me off about half the characters in this story is the same thing that pisses me of in half of all the stories i consume, people don't just fuckin talk their issues out properly, if at all, like fuck, if i was Akira i'd be sitting her down and saying something like "ok, ffs Ami, you NEED to stop worrying about losing me, i'm never ever going to drop you, you have me for life, that doesn't mean you have me all to yourself, i want to hang out with your classmates, i want to hang out with my adult friends, but you will always be dear to me, you'll never have to move out and make a life for yourself without me so stop with all this possessive stalker crap, that's the sort of shit that could land you in an insane asylum and i don't want to lose you to that so just chill, just chill and we can be together as we have been for as long as we live."

Now, i recognise that would be absurd to hear coming from his lips but that seems to encapsulate his thoughts and feeling pretty well and full informs Ami of her options and what to do to keep her happy bubble safe and what will happen if she goes to far this way or that way. I'm not saying it'd work, but at least there'd be none of this obfuscated masking shit, if she rejects it then it'd be good if she could be just as bluntly honest in return, let rip on Sensei and leave him fully informed on wtf she's going through.

Have em go back and forth at each other, get it ALL out and deal with it and then maybe, just maybe, shit could improve and work in a more healthy way.

But i guess that'd make for a boring game and it's why i am a reader, not a writer.

I want to add that this kind of thing works in LiL because every character is a teenager, they won't make correct decisions most of the time. And Sensei's motive is "do the bare minimum to have sex with teenage girls". He didn't talk with Ami before because she hasn't damaged any of his relationships yet and there was a good chance saying some of that stuff you said could backfire, and only started taking action when Ami was getting close to damaging his relationship with Chika. That's his general strategy, blindly hitting on girls without thinking of the consequences and hope that they don't find out. He won't even put in the effort to prevent them from finding out. If Sensei was more competent he would be fucking the entire class by now.