Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

Big Sis Otoha is growing on me. Pre Chapter 4 Otoha was boring, imo.

I agree and I think the main problem with Otoha (regarding her public image to the readers) was that her development was not guided by Akira during her relationship with Rin.

We see a lot of characters do some fucked up shit, but all of these things either benefit Akira or they discuss it with him/he's an active part of the process (Nodoka's the biggest example).

Otoha just went on a tangent in which she positioned herself outside his influence or even against Akira in a way. She assaults Niki more or less in a moment in which Akira is coming to terms with loving her, then she drops that info on him out of nowhere and in a way that he can't even react to it properly cause she's a coward and doesn't come clean.

Then there's the issue with Rin, since she isn't just cheating, but she puts him in a position of knowing about it for no real reason (when Rin can be one of his most wholesome relationships).

I don't think Akira really minds her cheating, or assaulting Niki, that much to be honest. But I think that because her relationship with him didn't allow for there to be scenes about these things way early that addressed him being okay with it, it created an unnecessary hatred from me as a reader that went on in the background far too long (before he kinda goes with a "meh it's whatever" attitude in recent updates).

Anyway, there are a lot of shitty individuals in this game, but I don't think there's one other than Otoha whose actions didn't benefit Akira (or were meant to benefit him) for so long - nevermind involving genuinely good people, like the love of his life and his little perverted sister behind his back - but hey, maybe when all of this is justified by her creating a hole for herself in which she finally lets him get her ass, I'll feel okay about it.

EDIT:

Man I don't like Otoha ONLY because she broke Rin's heart and she's bae, but some of you guys here take it to the next level.
She's just a dumb teenager controlled by her hormones, chill out.

Also, I don't want to actually see her die in a fire, that's a figure of speech. What I want to see is her screaming that she'd rather have his cock than Niki while orgasming, cause that's the power-fantasy right there (similar to what I want to see happening with Wakana). As for the character of Otoha, I have no idea how could she even grow from this other than becoming truly perverted. She doesn't have any real problems to deal with and the parent angle was abandoned a million years ago.

 

[Moonflare]

Interesting choice of wording re: Kaori's name - did you spot something I missed re: her cause I'm still trying to unravel what the hell is going on with her - even if I love her and all her craziness.

Here's the one that fucking scared me for a few moments:

Spoiler: Tsukasa Spoiler

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So, I'm the same but I think for me why this works despite certain parts of the story that absolutely fuck with my head is that I feel like there's this glimmering thread of how Akira seems to become more self aware and wrestle with the demons. Granted it's still a goddamn smut game end of the day and we all want our favorite scenes with our favorite girls but there's this character progression that's fairly unmatched in this game where both Akira and those he interacts with move forward, not always gracefully, to something more.

The most terrifying thing for me regarding Tsukasa is that (for the moment) it really is your choice. It's like the game's saying to you that you don't get to claim neutrality in this, the choice was not made for you, you are now a part of this.

As for the game in general I agree, and I feel like LiL reads like you're with this character that's a recovering drug-addict, and every step forward is followed by a thousand steps sideways. But Akira is aware of what he is, we have enough of justification from his past and supernatural elements to not abandon him completely, and he is going somewhere. As for the other characters, well most of them have somewhat wholesome arcs of growth.

 

[DeSkel15]

I agree and I think the main problem with Otoha (regarding her public image to the readers) was that her development was not guided by Akira during her relationship with Rin.

We see a lot of characters do some fucked up shit, but all of these things either benefit Akira or they discuss it with him/he's an active part of the process (Nodoka's the biggest example).

Otoha just went on a tangent in which she positioned herself outside his influence or even against Akira in a way. She assaults Niki more or less in a moment in which Akira is coming to terms with loving her, then she drops that info on him out of nowhere and in a way that he can't even react to it properly cause she's a coward and doesn't come clean.

Then there's the issue with Rin, since she isn't just cheating, but she puts him in a position of knowing about it for no real reason (when Rin can be one of his most wholesome relationships).

I don't think Akira really minds her cheating, or assaulting Niki, that much to be honest. But I think that because her relationship with him didn't allow for there to be scenes about these things way early that addressed him being okay with it, it created an unnecessary hatred from me as a reader that went on in the background far too long.

Anyway, there are a lot of shitty individuals in this game, but I don't think there's one other than Otoha whose actions didn't benefit Akira (or were meant to benefit him) for so long - nevermind involving genuinely good people, like the love of his life and his little perverted sister behind his back - but hey, maybe when all of this is justified by her creating a hole for herself in which she finally lets him get her ass, I'll feel okay about it.

Personally, I just don't really think Otoha was sold well (I'd assume intentionally). She's so cool, look at her rings, she's so creative, watch her smack Rin in a manic episode, she's so popular, watch everyone fawn over the prince while Chika wins the popularity contest. Etc.

Otoha is kind of like a bad joke, that's finally getting a laugh out of me, as she descends deeper into delightful depravity:

Spoiler

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I'm starting to get interested.

Edit: Ironically, Otoha also seemed billed as the "normal" girl, but frankly, to me, Yumi is far more normal.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Spoiler: CHINAMI

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I didn't have that much interest in Chinami before but now I stumbled against this art ...

credit - @ryz_ocr on twitter

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

There's definitely a lot of moments in the game where a player is meant to be scared to continue...yet we do.

Like Maya's scary room is one that comes to mind for me. I was starting to like Maya then it's like "FACTORY RESET IN 10...9...8...7..."...."-1....WATERMELON"...

My thought process at the time: "This muthafucka..."

Edit: When it comes to scaring the player, I think Sel may have peaked at 'The Scary Room':

Spoiler

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That one was good. Unless one didn't give a shit about Maya I guess.

By the way, Maya Prime was talking directly to god there, wasn't she? Did someone else, aside Akira and Yasu, talked with gods directly?

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

View attachment 3659215


I didn't have that much interest in Chinami before but now I stumbled against this art ...

credit - @ryz_ocr on twitter

Dude, hide it in the spoiler. It's so freaking huge

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

By the way, Maya Prime was talking directly to god there, wasn't she? Did someone else, aside Akira and Yasu, talked with gods directly?

Very possibly Sara

 

[DeSkel15]

By the way, Maya Prime was talking directly to god there, wasn't she? Did someone else, aside Akira and Yasu, talked with gods directly?

Maya Prime could also pray to god and stuff for the Resets, but yeah, she had a conversation with something in The Scary Room:

Spoiler

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As for others:

• Ami might talk to a god, but those could just be voices.
• Ayane may hear voices, but she definitely talked to the Shapeshifter/Himawari.
• Kaori can communicate with whatever is in her:
  Spoiler

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  And probably other things.
• Makoto could seemingly hear the World Itself talking to her:
  Spoiler

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  Probably other things as well. Mentioned a False Moon:
  Spoiler

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• Nao-chan definitely seems able to hear gods or at least the voices in Sensei's head. She literally traveled with Sensei mentally somehow and seemed to understand the plants.
• Nodoka may or may not talk with things, she's implied she's been ordained by the World Itself, and mentioned a girl with blue eyes in her dreams, but she didn't talk to Nodoka apparently. Hard to tell if she's just figuring things out or being given hints.
• Sana talked to something HOPEish, or, well, stared at it as it spoke to her:
  Spoiler

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  That "Humans" bit feels more like Pareidolia to me.
• Sara has mentioned some weird figure talking to her, and we've seemingly seen one talking to her as she cried:
  Spoiler

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• Yasu of course talks with her god, somewhat the World Itself, and other things whether she's aware or means to.

May be others I missed. It's implied a lot is going on in the background for these girls, and they're probably ignoring it to sustain their sanity.

Miku may also communicate with things, but that may have just been drugs and withdrawal, etc.

 

[Moonflare]

As for others:

• Ami might talk to a god, but those could just be voices.

I think we have enough to assume that Ami hears (or has heard) the world itself. When she comes back from the graveyard/date (when Sekai's name is revealed - in Somnambula) the bus they're on moves backwards. And then when Yasu says something about the world itself it is revealed to speak backwards.

Spoiler: Ami hears stuff

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Also, if Ami hears the world itself it would explain a lot about sudden knowledge that she seems to have at times. And possibly also explain Sekai not being able to speak to her at that one point in the cemetery (not sure if she still can't speak to her), but still hear things from something.

I mean, the world itself is a big mystery since Yasu says it's the last of its kind, and feels very lonely because no one talks to it. Given that it was excited about the news about Makoto's dead dad, it's also possible that it views the changes to this timeline as something positive. From all Ami says in Somnambula it could also stretch to it being Ami in the far future, but that's a much wilder theory.

 

[TheSeedy1]

The character I'm most interested in is the brown haired girl who pops up to randomly fix/help us out that refuses to say her name.

 

[Bingoogus]

The character I'm most interested in is the brown haired girl who pops up to randomly fix/help us out that refuses to say her name.

That's Himawari. Look carefully at her face, it's Ayane's.

 

[TheSeedy1]

That's Himawari. Look carefully at her face, it's Ayane's.

OOO that's who that is? Like do we understand her motives much? It feels like she's rather helpful most of the time just of course "I don't got time to explain why I don't got time to explain" heh

 

[Kitty Hawk]

OOO that's who that is? Like do we understand her motives much? It feels like she's rather helpful most of the time just of course "I don't got time to explain why I don't got time to explain" heh

For me it feels like she's a weirdo most of the time and in the other times she's either working with Long Maya ,who's a side villain, or with Pareidolia, who looks like the main antagonist of this arc, if not the whole game.

There was one time she helped Ayane, and that's pretty much it for the good deeds, her interactions with Maya are mostly theorised here as a preparations made for Maya's eventual sacrifice.

It is being speculated that all this stuff is some kind of her grand plan that requires Ayane to succeed at the cost of others.

 

[Moonflare]

OOO that's who that is? Like do we understand her motives much? It feels like she's rather helpful most of the time just of course "I don't got time to explain why I don't got time to explain" heh

So far she seems like a freelancer that is able to meet with Akira by working with other people. However, because she has to work with other beings, that also limits her in what she can do. Her overall intentions seem to be something that she believes to be for a good ending, presumably for Akira (her father, that calls her his little Himawari) and her mom (Ayane) - and that she'd like him to suffer the least possible towards that end (that's why she fights back during that one reset with the quiz).

Being a freelancer, it's possible that some of the things she did were instead her working for someone else's plans. She can be seeing partying with Akira during a reset along with angels, if he chooses to dance. She can also be seen just chilling on the roof with Noodles during the christmas when he meets Maya after Niki confesses. Selling Akira Maya's scarf and selling watermelons during Maya's dates are related to Maya. Saving Akira from being lost, and shapeshifting into Sana happens if you have sex with Sara. However, there are instances where she seems genuinely surprised at seeing Akira, and seems to be acting on her own (like saving him from outside the city in his trip with Nodoka), or during Scientific Research (which requires cheating, and implies she works alongside someone named Shiori). She seems to hint at being limited in what she can say, and tells him in a roundabout way to NOT follow orders in Futaba's fake date.

Also, it should be remembered that she is the last one out during the Room with the Clocks, telling him to smile. She has stated she's no god at all. And it is implied that she narrates a lot of stuff when Ayane is involved, and/or choosing to not witness some events that involve her (like furlough).

Spoiler: hiding in plain sight

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I'd recommend rewatching Ad Meliora cause that is the best thing we have so far on her nature (there's plenty more than what I have put here).

Spoiler: Ad meliora

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I've been taking a close look at Himawari in my replay, but I'm still in the beginning of chapter 3.

There are the events where she physically shows up so far in my replay:

Room with the clocks, Scientific research, Place she falls asleep at night, Glued to the sky, Three halves make a whole, A life of prizes (host a dance party), Beyond the reach of god, Ad meliora, Hiding in plain sight. When I get to the current build I'll probably make a post about my findings.

 

[nawt0k]

I'm playing through the latest version and in the middle of camping. Just clicked on "spend time with Noa" on the first night and get this. Is this just Selebus fucking with us or is there something actually wrong?

 

[Moonflare]

I'm playing through the latest version and in the middle of camping. Just clicked on "spend time with Noa" on the first night and get this. Is this just Selebus fucking with us or is there something actually wrong?

View attachment 3659866

either spam ctrl or just wait.

 

[DeSkel15]

OOO that's who that is? Like do we understand her motives much? It feels like she's rather helpful most of the time just of course "I don't got time to explain why I don't got time to explain" heh

The Shapeshifter's/Himawari's goal seems mostly to survive/exist.

Long Maya implied that she was scared of revealing the name of Ayane's lost baby as it'd affect her future:

Spoiler

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And a Narrator, which may be her, more or less said "I'm helping cause I want to exist" in the 'World of Lines' Chapter 3 Main Event:

Spoiler

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So, in theory, she's doing all that she can to ensure a possible future comes to past, so that she can safely exist. Whether or not she's from a future or is only allowed to exist if that future remains possible for her to play a part in, I'm not sure.

She also seems to value Sensei, and Ayane, possibly Sana, and shows up a few times only if you're fucking Ami and Sara, so they presumably play a part in things.

The Shapeshifter was also shown with Ami clones(?):

Spoiler

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And apparently has coworkers, besides the Mayas, like Shiori, who may be Nodoka's evil twin:

Spoiler

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Albeit, Shiori may also just be a Shapeshifter, who looked like Nodoka to Nodoka at one point or something. (Or it's just a coincidence which I somewhat doubt)

Overall: It's not clear, but I'm leaning towards Survival being her main motivation.

The happiness and safety of Sensei and Ayane, are probably motives as well, and making the world a better place is probably another, if this was her, which I think was implied:

Spoiler

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[nawt0k]

either spam ctrl or just wait.

What an evil prick. I spammed ctrl and space after seeing your message and it passed. Before doing anything it sat for 5 or so min without advancing. Thanks. I tried searching the thread for "corrupted" and only saw hints for legit corruption. Guess everyone else is smarter than I.

 

[Moonflare]

And a Narrator, which may be her, more or less said "I'm helping cause I want to exist" in the 'World of Lines' Chapter 3 Main Event:

Spoiler

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I was just going through this event, and I'd like to reinforce that it seems to be the case since the narrator points out that they have been instructed not to reveal anything else, and yet they're going to (which is very similar to what Himawari just said on the Futaba fake date event).

Spoiler: World of lines

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Also, not related to Himawari, but relevant to the world itself - it seems that Yasu was trying to prevent what the world itself knew would happen by having HOPE/the angels provide her the answers to the quiz, and yet it could not be avoided.

Spoiler: good girl yasu has failed

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Lastly, say what you want about HOPE, at least he wants Akira to have sex with Rin (it is implied he has allowed Sana and Rin to come inside because they are to become vessels/angels eventually - and he does not permit that Otoha, Touka and Imani come in).

Spoiler: no one can be wrong all the time

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[LessonsInDissonance]

Hold on, I just that with Himawari's existance, I can have an Amamiya "family reunion" just like with the Tsukiokas