Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[ccxvidonaferens]

For every theorycrafter there are 20 of us dunces, you're in good company friend. Feel free to join us over at the dunce table.

Who do I see about reserving a seat at the dunces table?

 

[Antosha]

Not sure if joking, but let's go down that rabbit hole.

The Persona series has been cited by Selebus as an influence on the game. For anyone who was unaware, the modern Persona games feature high school students in their second year going through some form of rite of passage into adulthood. They use the Tarot Arcana to symbolize the stages of passage from the innocence of youth (The Fool) to the maturity of adulthood, and each of the people the The Fool meets on his journey symbolizes a step on that passage. There are usually 20 Arcana in the initial version of the game, though the enhanced release may add some additional Arcana. But 20 Arcana for 20 Main Girls may be relevant.

Persona 3 is a game about accepting your own mortality. Persona 4 is a story about overcoming your insecurities. Persona 5 is a game about moving past your personal trauma -- which seems particularly appropriate for LiL.

The game takes place in both the "normal" and "shadow" world, though the nature of the shadow world varies by game. In 3, the shadow world is a localized distortion centered around a single location that only exists in a period of time that most cannot percieve (the 25th hour), in 4, it is a "TV Realm" literally entered by passing through a TV screen (note: thsi game came out before TVs got as large as they are today, and finding a TV large enough to fit a person through was still a bit of a challenge), and in 5 the shadow world is the world of cognition-- or Perception, but as it exists in a collective sense.

When a character is in the shadow world, they might awaken a Persona -- a spiritual being (drawn from religion or literature, usually) who grants them incredible power. at this moment, their outfit changes to reflect their awakened state. Ayane is wearing the costume of Ann Takamaki, a model who is being sexually harassed by a teacher at her school. Her refusal of his advances causes the teacher to rape her best friend, who then tries to kill herself by jumping off the roof of the school. Ann's arc is driven by her sense of guilt towards what happens to her friend, her dealing with rumors (spread by the teacher) that she was sleeping with said teacher, and a desire to not be seen as just a model anymore.

A whole lot of that is really, REALLY on the nose.

Ann is the Lover Arcana, which seems appropriate for Ayane as well.

Other characters in the game include:
Futaba Sakura, a redheaded Otaku recluse who blames herself for her mother's death (Molly?). She is the Hermit Arcana, which is less appropriate for Molly (Yumi would be a better candidate)

Makoto Niijima, a studious Student Council President who blames herself for not seeing what was happening at her school sooner. Her Arcana is Priestess, which doesn't feel like a good fit for our Makoto (Noriko is a better fit), but the name and role overlapping likely isn't coincidence.

Haru Nokumura, an heiress who is slated to be married to the son of a company executive who is also an abusive prick, who feels abandoned by her father (Touka). Her Arcana is Empress, which also fits Touka (one of the first things listed on the Megami Tensei wiki for Empress is that it's associated with mothers, and we know how Akira feels about Touka)

Kinda just punching the nose over and over again, honestly.

I've known that Sel has cited Persona as an influence for some time, but I hadn't actually thought that much about LiL in terms of Persona or the Arcana.

Hmmm.

Don’t know the games, but know a bit about the tarot.

These kind of make sense, don’t they?

• Yasu=High Priestess
• Touka=Empress
• Ayane=Lovers (or would that be Ami?)
• Maya=the Magician—or maybe the Hanged Man?
• Tsuneyo=Strength
• Nodoko=the Hermit, maybe? (“The Truth Seeker”)
• Etc., etc.

So many possibilities. Who is Justice, or the Blasted Tower? Who is the Fool, or Death?


And who is the World, I wonder?




ETA: Oh, and there are traditionally 21 cards in the major arcana—plus the Fool. So 20 students, 1 Imani… and Akira is the Fool, definitely. lol

 

[Bingoogus]

Who do I see about reserving a seat at the dunces table?

Me of course.

I am the king of the dunce table. Luckily there are infinitely many seats here, all dunces are welcome.

 

[Moonflare]

For every theorycrafter there are 20 of us dunces, you're in good company friend. Feel free to join us over at the dunce table.

An accurate representation of the amount of people in each:

Spoiler: A few people that can't stop talking

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Spoiler: An actual nation that welcomes all

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[Comiies]

I can finally use my sacred knowledge and the endless time ive wasted on the SMT series.

So lets start connecting arcana with the girls until the update drops.
(Disclaimer:I will only talk about the upright potisions of each major arcana unless stated otherwise)

Yasu is the High Priestess arcana.The high priestess arcana symbolizes intuition,sacred knowledge and the sub-councious mind.*
Touka is the empress.The empress symbolizes femininity beauty and nurture.
Ayane is the Lovers.The lovers symbolize love harmony and the importance of relationships
Maya is the hermit.The hermit symbolizes introspection and being alone
Tsuneyo is the strength.The strength symbolizes compassion justice and persuation
Nodoka is the devil.The devil symbolizes the shadow self addiction and sexuality(One could argue about this)
Chika and Miku are the sun.The sun symbolizes positivity vitality and warmth(One can especially argue about this)
Yumi is the reversed hermit.Unlike maya the reversed hermit symbolizes isolation and loneliness
Sana is the same as yumi
Makoto suprise suprise is Justice.As its name implies it symbolizes justice fairness and the law(A fan fact is that its reversed state symbolizes dishonesty and LACK of accountability.Quite fitting)
Futaba is the same as ayane
Rin is the reversed devil.The reversed devil symbolizes the exploartion of dark thoughs and detachement
Ami is the reversed lovers.The reversed lovers symbolize the missalingment of values and disarmony(Or she could be the reversed hierophant which symbolizes self interest and challenged the status quo)
Moly is also the sun
Uta funnily enough is the reversed world.It fits her suprinsingly well tbh.The reversed world symbolizes the pursuit of personal closure,emotional or otherwise and taking shortcuts to achieve your goal.
Io is the reversed star.It symbolises despair and disconnection from the world
Finally to end things of Noriko is the reversed strength which symbolises inner strength self-doubt and pure raw emotion
Kirin is the devil and Otoha is revered justice.

Now that the girls are out of the way lets talk about our "protagonist".You see i have a few ideas about Akira and i will let you guys decide.

The first one is the reversed Wheel of fortune.It symbolizes bad luck and resistance to change.
The second is the reversed justice
But my personal favourites are the reversed Moon,which symbolizes inner confusion and resistance to change and the reversed star.

PS:I havent touched anything SMT related for some years now so my tarot knowledge may be a bit spotty.Feel free to knockyourselves out until the update comes though.

 

[DeanNoriko]

An accurate representation of the amount of people in each:

Spoiler: A few people that can't stop talking

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Spoiler: An actual nation that welcomes all

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Come to think of it, when reading a really interesting theory or the discussion of such a theory, I feel like during the scenes with the potted plants discussing what's happening and giving a few insights here and there. Like it's a potpodcast or TV show where experts are sharing their opinions and thoughts for the viewers (i.e. us dunces). And occasionally making fun of each other.
I would include a screen shot of one of those scenes (e.g. the one at the beach when Touka brought the restaurant over via helicopter) but alas I am too lazy, sorry

I skipped most of Chika's events and hated Yasu's "nonsense" during my first time. I barely knew who Chinami was as well: "why the hell is there a kid (with a dog mask) in this porn game? slip skip". And now I can quote random obscure lore fragments by heart Perhaps I should start wearing denim.

I have yet to replay the game, I might do so during the next bigger break when Sel is having his vacation period.
By the time Chinami was in the game with the dog mask or especially Yasu, I was already too engrossed in the story and did pay attention, but yeah, originally I went in pretty much blind and got a few "WTF is happening, did I download a virus" moments early on when shit started to hit the fan unexpectedly. Much of which I simply don't remember anymore.
I can totally see how replaying now would bring out a lot more nuanced details that got lost the first time around, in addiiton to just help get a better picture of the whole storyline, knowing more context.
And I guess it would have to be a green route playthrough, since I missed a substantial amount of content by deciding to be a good uncle, plus a few other decisions here and there.

So many possibilities. Who is Justice, or the Blasted Tower? Who is the Fool, or Death?

I only played Persona 4 but the whole tarot thing makes a lot of sense, actually, especially with Sel confirming he used the games as inspiration.
I would be personally disappointed though if Akira didn't end up being The Fool, also known as The Dreamer. Since he is literally both, a fucking idiot and slipping drifting in and out of consciousness and entering different planes of existence.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

The Tarot Card concept was tackled in the LiL Discord awhile back actually. Some really cool fanart spawned as a result of it:

Spoiler: LiL Tarot Card Art

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[Moonflare]

The Tarot Card concept was tackled in the LiL Discord awhile back actually. Some really cool fanart spawned as a result of it:

Spoiler: LiL Tarot Card Art

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wheel of fortune is so cute oh my god! Death is funny, moon is creepy and temperance is accurate. The hanged man looks like it's an actual thing that might happen

 

[Comiies]

The Tarot Card concept was tackled in the LiL Discord awhile back actually. Some really cool fanart spawned as a result of it:

Spoiler: LiL Tarot Card Art

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Strength is peak and may it someday happen.Also prince Miku is a thing i never expected yet would like to now see

 

[Riolol]

The hanged man looks like it's an actual thing that might happen

We can only hope

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Also prince Miku is a thing i never expected yet would like to now see

Prince Miku is actually a reference to her costume from the second Halloween party:

Spoiler

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[Xiondingens]

Yeah, pretty sure that whole tarot card stick is just another red herring to confuse people.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

As someone that has played Persona 5, keep in mind that just because Ann had the "Lovers" card doesn't mean she is meant to be Joker's lover, she just simbolizes this aspect of the card.

Edit: Kasumi is meant to be the "cannon" Joker girlfriend in the Persona expansion and her tarot is Faith

 

[Antosha]

Yeah, pretty sure that whole tarot card stick is just another red herring to confuse people.

The thing about the tarot is, more than anything, it’s basically a collection of symbols to meditate on. Like Rorsharch’s ink blots, they’re not so much about what they mean as what you see in them. So I guess it’s as red a herring as you think it is.

 

[Xiondingens]

The thing about the tarot is, more than anything, it’s basically a collection of symbols to meditate on. Like Rorsharch’s ink blots, they’re not so much about what they mean as what you see in them. So I guess it’s as red a herring as you think it is.

The interpretation part is what let me believe it is. And also the thing that it is not really a thing inside of the game. Didnt read much off your discussion here, but it looks like this is something from discord? Pretty sure not even Sel is such an arse that he would hide important information in his discord. Inside the game? Inside the code? Inside the soundtrack? Oh yes, that would be pretty much on point. But not more.

 

[barglenarglezous]

The interpretation part is what let me believe it is. And also the thing that it is not really a thing inside of the game. Didnt read much off your discussion here, but it looks like this is something from discord? Pretty sure not even Sel is such an arse that he would hide important information in his discord. Inside the game? Inside the code? Inside the soundtrack? Oh yes, that would be pretty much on point. But not more.

It's more of a thought experiment than anything else. In the persona series, each character is tied to a Tarot Arcana that helps contextualize their character archetype and narrative arc, and Sel has indicated that Persona is one of the game's influences, and we now have a preview of Ayane dressed as a Persona character.

Is it an actual thing in game? No. Just something to think/talk about while we wait for the update to drop.

 

[Comiies]

The thing about the tarot is, more than anything, it’s basically a collection of symbols to meditate on. Like Rorsharch’s ink blots, they’re not so much about what they mean as what you see in them. So I guess it’s as red a herring as you think it is.

I just like funny looking picture cards.Man i have to replay the old persona games huh.

Off-topic but has any of you guys played the remaster of P3?Ive been thinking of buying it recently and im curious to know if it holds up(I also dont trust reddit)

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Off-topic but has any of you guys played the remaster of P3?Ive been thinking of buying it recently and im curious to know if it holds up(I also dont trust reddit)

I 100%’d it, and comparing it to the other versions of P3, I say go for it. It’s by far the definitive way to play Persona 3. There’s no FeMC or The Answer expansion, but apparently the latter is coming as DLC? I dunno, I haven’t kept up with that.

But yeah. It’s a solid experience.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I 100%’d it, and comparing it to the other versions of P3, I say go for it. It’s by far the definitive way to play Persona 3. There’s no FeMC or The Answer expansion, but apparently the latter is coming as DLC? I dunno, I haven’t kept up with that.

But yeah. It’s a solid experience.

The Answer is being added in the form of a DLC pack called Episode Aigis, and the release date is (does some googling)....tomorrow.

 

[Comiies]

I 100%’d it, and comparing it to the other versions of P3, I say go for it. It’s by far the definitive way to play Persona 3. There’s no FeMC or The Answer expansion, but apparently the latter is coming as DLC? I dunno, I haven’t kept up with that.

But yeah. It’s a solid experience.

The Answer is being added in the form of a DLC pack called Episode Aigis, and the release date is (does some googling)....tomorrow.

Much love