There is no 'discussion' there is simply me stating facts directly related to this game. Certainly those could be applied to other games as well, but in this case - it's about this game and it's future - so there is no 'off topic' discussion to 'moderate' because this is ON topic.
And patreon can go suck it - that service is terrible because it's bad for creators and practices censorship.
And don't kid yourself - this game is about sex. That's what draws most people in. Heck the first picture on in the description topic on this forum is of a girl inserting a guys dick into herself. That says something pretty important about the games content. And if you are not here for the sex - and you looked at the first picture in the thread.... you've got mental issues.
And if the developer intends to make the game NOT about sex - then that's what's called a 'bait and switch'. People don't like that sort of thing.
To clarify though - if the developer intends to make a separate version for patreon, then I feel sorry for patreon people. and strongly suggest they use a different service so that the developer can eventually just leave patreon entirely.
The game has sex, but it is not about sex, even Selebus himself has acknowledged sex is on the side at best. It isn't a bait and switch because he has never once said anything that supports the idea of sex being the focus, it has always been openly stated as side content, meaning there was no bait to switch out for players that were 'baited.' The real focus, unlike most games on here, is story. As for what people are here, in this game, for, well that depends on who you ask because there ARE people here specifically for the story even if we didn't start out that way, we because I came in under the incorrect impression that it would just be another game with lots of scenes and an average at best story to hold them togather as something just above watching a slideshow.
As for Patreon, I agree with you and have been of that opinion towards them since they first dropped the censorship hammer. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who stifles creative thinking for morals, laws, or whatever they use an excuse is just trying to find a scapegoat to silence what they don't like unless actual human beings are involved and getting hurt.
So I'm kind of a lurker around this site and just want to say I keep seeing a handful of people saying this and I don't agree at all that the sexual part of the game is "side" content. It's a very large part of the games theme and it wouldn't be remotely the same without it. Just because it's not filled with it doesn't mean the impacts of it in the game aren't huge. Like myself, I play it for both; it doesn't have to be one or the other since they're one in the same. Just imagine not being able to see what a scumbag Kirin was after stepping in on Ayane and Sensei, the emotions on her face throughout the entire ordeal. Maybe you can, but not me.
And as it's a mature title it's far less boring than just having to assume everything that's transpired through a black screen or scene skip. Just because you yourself don't for some reason care for it doesn't mean there isn't a very large portion that does, and trying to downplay that point is kind of messed up on your part. At any rate I'm well aware that there are two versions, I'm just getting this off my chest because I'm really tired of seeing it being told to people as if it were some absolute fact.
You can agree or not, that changes nothing, what the developer says is essentially the word of god for the game and his word is that the sex is side content. It actually isn't that big a part of the game and 90% of it can be missed entirely if a player doesn't do the lust stat. In game development, any content that is nonessential to progression is side content and no sex content in this game is essential with MAYBE one or two scenes that happen regardless unless you specifically tell the girl no to sex stuff, ending any sex progression right then and there.
This game could VERY easily be done without sex with very little impact, literally the only impact would be a severe lack of naked girls and sex. The main focus is the story, whatever is going wrong in town and the things that are causing what is happening, which is what gives the game its horror tag as a Denpa game.
As for me, I started playing for the sex, but I stopped even caring about the sex elements around 0.8.0, when Selebus won my patronage solely for his writing and the story he is telling. The game could easily be stripped of sex and I would still keep playing as if nothing was removed because it has no consequence. The fact that you can say no to it even happening, case by case in each girl's first lust event, is a testament to how unimportant it is.
I didn't say I didn't care for it, it's a nice bonus, it would be stupid of me to ignore it entirely when it is there. All I am saying is what Selebus himself has said, that it isn't the focus.
so .5 ends the support completely for the adult version correct? there will no longer be any new adult content in future version correct?
on a serious note though can the dev update the itch.io page please. that is still on version 21.0 not to mention the change log stops on 19.5 unless the stop on 21.0 is intentional.
It ends the support by Selebus, but Subeles will take over in his place and the SubscribeStar is where you can find that version, or here whenever it gets shared because there's no way people are going to forgo the Subeles version for the Selebus version, no offense Selebus, that's just F95. The Itch.io thing might very well be intentional, not sure.
The dev has been scooching away from the porn aspect, really. (He gets annoyed if you refer to it as a porn game.) He basically figures (with some justification) that if it is considered porn then the quality of the story won't be fully appreciated. Given the tremendously high quality of the writing, his worries about being underappreciated is understandable.
He seems to get most of his customer feedback from Discord, and if you say something like "keep the porn in, I like watching the school girls fuck" you are in a minority there-- the place has a sycophantic vibe. If the bulk of his income comes from a handful of top tier patrons then disregarding the fappers is probably fine; those guys have pretty much all drunk the Kool-Aide and take great pride in declaring that they don't care about the sexual content. However, if the game generates much of its revenue from the lower-tier patrons, many of whom joined because they want to watch Koi schoolgirls fuck while enjoying a good yarn, then a high-handed attitude toward the plebes is going to bite him in the ass.
IMHO-- Part of the problem is that the game deliberately sells itself as being lighter content ("adorable schoolgirls!"). There is good reason for this-- Selebus is a master of trope subversion-- but it does create a situation where the game gets followers that are looking for something in the game that the creator seems to have mixed feelings about providing.
In a perfect world he'd just embrace the game being smutty and stop agonizing over people fapping to his work. However, I don't think a "relax and say to hell with it" attitude is what you are going to find in a guy capable of creating writing this good at a pace this prodigious. And so there will always be some tension between creator and consumer with all the inevitable drama.....
I wouldn't say he's been scooching away, it was just never that big a thing in game to begin with. The only reason there is as much sex in game as there is is because the game is 20+ updates into development and, while his focus is on the writing, he is still trying to throw a bone to the people who want the sex aspect.
Honestly, the fact that he found a compromise instead of not doing sex at all in a game that he himself says is focused on the story and with him getting annoyed at people calling it a porn game when it isn't shows what kind of developer he is. He is nothing like the developers who give Patreon developers a bad name.
He is very much correct if he assumes the quality of the story would be underappreciated if the game was considered a porn game. Porn games have a reputation for NOT having good stories, IF they even have a story, so that the focus is on the sex. This game is a diamond in a sea of quartz, one extremely rare and valuable work in a sea of not so valuable other works. It would be criminal, not literally of course, to overlook that.
Playing the huggy boy version, I did not expect the removal of sex would have a negative effect at all.
This was very much a mistaken opinion. Most of that diminishment was still the removal of the horror, but the sex scenes were needed as well
And it wasn't because of the sex, per se.
I now realize that the sex in this game is pretty close to the horror, and is necessary for the drama.
I mean, if you look at what's really going on you find a narcissistic predator using the bodies of underage girls to masturbate with (Plus amnesia and 'world is a resetting prison' gnostic plot).
The near entirety of his behavior centers around setting the pieces in place for 'doing the sex' and how, paradoxically, this still leaves him absolutely unfulfilled
(though that realization is usually another voice poking through).
Sensei's manipulations, his self-absorbed trite existentialist monologues, the very existence of the Universe itself (Nozomu fucked a flashlight, got bored, so made people he could fuck? If memory serves correct).
It's all centered around sex, pleasure, and futility.
Its at the core of the game, thematically. And that's fine.
And that's before any of it is porn. Before its something you actually jerk off to.
Maybe some people can use the scenes for that, but for me I'm much happier to watch them play their part in the... Sensei trainwreck/dumpster fire. Which is VERY entertaining in my opinion. He is like a walking talking Id with just enough of an ego to crack some jokes and get some gash whilst desperately trying to love himself to the exclusion of all else.
Of course the horror would have a major impact in its removal, that's half the main story. I do have to disagree on the sex and I believe that to be more of a preference of player vs preference of developer issue where some players are looking for what essentially amounts to the usual on F95 and the developer is is looking for something greater, the sex is welcome, but not necessary. As an example, we're getting along through Chinami's story just fine and she has no sex content. Rin is very much in that same boat, the best we get is some
less than fully clothed moments and a kiss.
As for Sensei's manipulations, all Selebus has to do is change HOW Sensei manipulates the girls. That's just how unimportant the sex specifically is. Sensei choosing manipulation into sexual acts is coincidental at best and could be changed into doing just about anything else and, even in maintaining said manipulation into sexual acts, could be left out on screen and merely implied or stated in text.
Check your Main Event list. Have you seen Recall?
Check your Maya event list. Have you seen Takoyaki?
Check your Happy Event list. Have you seen The Letter T and How I Feel?
And yes, obviously the sex scenes are a major part of the story, but what exactly was Selebus supposed to do? Patreon said that if he left the sex in, all the characters would need to clearly be older. So he could redo the art for the entire game, say goodbye to almost all of his income, or create a silly version of the game without sex. It's not like he's stopping making the NSFW version, it just won't be on Patreon.
From experience, you're right on the making them older part. Designing the girls and then having to go back and redo potentially THOUSANDS of renders in the studio plus redesigning the girls in the game's character maker is MAJOR work. Just positioning a girl in the studio can take anywhere from three to six hours for me to get her right, position any props right, position lighting right, angle the camera perfectly, and take the shot and that's three to six hours PER RENDER out of potentially thousands.
All conditions met so I am at a total loss here
And yes I agree with you 100% but there are people arguing that having the sex scences made no sense/did not contribute any further lore is just wrong. He obviously should not redo everything if he does not want to and income/time plays a big role too. Putting up 2 versions is possibly the best outcome for him.
They make sense because Selebus writes them to fit within the story, hence why no girl gets sex scenes before her relationship with her sex partner is up to the level of allowing sex. That said, they only contributed into the game by adding onto what was there as a bonus.
That's super weird. Post your save file or send it to me in DMs and I'll take a look?
Fair enough; sorry to go off on you, but I've been pretty frustrated by the people who have been acting like he sold out to Disney instead of reading what actually went on.
I think most of us here know by now that a change 'because Patreon' isn't selling out, it's an ultimatum that could prove development ending if the developer doesn't comply. It's not like the Disney comparison, where the one selling out had a choice, there are only two options when Patreon strikes, comply or get out, and the latter is a potential and probable death blow in most cases and was definitely going to be a death blow here if it had happened.
Honestly, that's what scared the hell out of me to the point I was openly admitting I might not stick around, the uncertainty of whether Patreon was going to put this game on its knees and figuratively put a bullet in its skull executioner style. Honestly, I still am that scared because I know what Patreon does to developers who have been found to be trying to get around the strike, they pull the trigger.
Here it is, hope I posted the right one lol.
And yeah do not be sorry, I can understand you. I am not mad at Selebus, how can one even be? He posts both version so we can decide for ourselves. I am mad at those who wants to dictate how we should play or talk in name of everyone that we don't want it. That is just a tad bit ridiculous.
I don't think anyone is trying to dictate how anyone else should play or I have at least never seen evidence of this. All anyone is saying is what Selebus himself has said, that sex was never that important. I've said it before, the sex parts are a nice bonus and I am thankful that Selebus, who gets annoyed when people call this a porn game just because there is sex in it, puts sex in the game at all. He could have very easily stripped it long ago and written the game without it, the only major difference would be the lack of players who are in it for the sex, which is what most new players from here come in expecting because of the reputation of the site due to its majority of games being porn games.
