Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[DrFree]

AgumenticR alex2011 there is absolutely a reason to continue doing Chika's events: getting stuck. Think about it. How many times have you gone around completing the girls' individual events because the main ones won't trigger?
I know player "control" is kind of a joke for the game, but hey, I gotta try and keep up.
For example, you need to see Chika's "A Castle for Everyone" to get "Scientific Research" which leads to "Stronger I Become" which is needed for "Girl Talk Pt. II"

ITS ALL CONNECTED

 

[Raf-Raf]

AgumenticR alex2011 there is absolutely a reason to continue doing Chika's events: getting stuck. Think about it. How many times have you gone around completing the girls' individual events because the main ones won't trigger?
I know player "control" is kind of a joke for the game, but hey, I gotta try and keep up.
For example, you need to see Chika's "A Castle for Everyone" to get "Scientific Research" which leads to "Stronger I Become" which is needed for "Girl Talk Pt. II"

ITS ALL CONNECTED
View attachment 958588

And here I thought I was insane...

 

[AgumenticR]

It is a betrayal because she specifically asks you to hold off to give her a chance, twice, and player Sensei agrees in that scene, forming the promise that he breaks to become a bad homie if Schadenfreude is triggered before the beach event.

Yes, I agree. But before that event happens, and therefore before Rin specifically asks you/Sensei to hold off and give her a chance, it was not, even if Schadenfreude was triggered. Only after agreeing to give her a chance despite knowing that he already broke that agreement does the player/Sensei betray Rin.

 

[alex2011]

AgumenticR alex2011 there is absolutely a reason to continue doing Chika's events: getting stuck. Think about it. How many times have you gone around completing the girls' individual events because the main ones won't trigger?
I know player "control" is kind of a joke for the game, but hey, I gotta try and keep up.
For example, you need to see Chika's "A Castle for Everyone" to get "Scientific Research" which leads to "Stronger I Become" which is needed for "Girl Talk Pt. II"

ITS ALL CONNECTED
View attachment 958588

I never said anything about not doing Chika's events at all. They can be continued safely after the beach event, which I specifically stated. Also, another thing I have stated is that Schadenfreude is not an event that acts as a prerequisite for any other event except Chika's lust events, which is a betrayal of Rin's trust anyway until the beach event, when it is safe to do Schadenfreude. There is no time limit for how long you can wait to do Schadenfreude because the only way to lock Schadenfreude out would be if there was an option to not have sexual contact with Chika, which would lock Chika out of lewd events like the same option does for Sara. Again, Schadenfreude is safe to continue with after the beach event, you DO NOT need to skip it for the entire game.

Yes, I agree. But before that event happens, and therefore before Rin specifically asks you/Sensei to hold off and give her a chance, it was not, even if Schadenfreude was triggered. Only after agreeing to give her a chance despite knowing that he already broke that agreement does the player/Sensei betray Rin.

It is a betrayal to go after Chika before the beach event at all because going after Chika before the beach event, that's starting anything sexual with her, betrays the promise made. Triggering Schadenfreude before the beach event at all starts something sexual with her in the time period in which the promise is in effect. The promise is in effect regardless of Cafe Mocha being triggered, the only thing different if Cafe Mocha is triggered is that knowledge of Rin's crush and this promise is gained.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Day ** after the leak: I still...can't...bring myself...to play it...


The screenie is definitely not from my pc and it's 100% from my fwend's and I didn't download the leak from this site after it got released.

 

[DrFree]

I am talking here from the hypothetical perspective of someone that:
A: Doesn't use a guide.
B: Doesn't roll back and accepts the consequences of where they click.
This hypothetical person, in my opinion, isn't really guilty of betraying anyone.

I never said anything about not doing Chika's events at all. They can be continued safely after the beach event, which I specifically stated.

Yes, and I am mentioning this because we, and the hypothetical player I described, just don't know when this happens.

Also, another thing I have stated is that Schadenfreude is not an event that acts as a prerequisite for any other event

And we didn't know this. Again, imagine getting stuck with the main story, you go and randomly pursue the girls' events trying to get out of this lock.

This is all I am arguing about. Trying to do Chika's events, on its own, doesn't mean you were trying to be a bad homie.

 

[AgumenticR]

It is a betrayal to go after Chika before the beach event at all because going after Chika before the beach event, that's starting anything sexual with her, betrays the promise made. Triggering Schadenfreude before the beach event at all starts something sexual with her in the time period in which the promise is in effect. The promise is in effect regardless of Cafe Mocha being triggered, the only thing different if Cafe Mocha is triggered is that knowledge of Rin's crush and this promise is gained.

You can't betray a promise that is not in effect, and the promise is only in effect after it has been made. Since it's only made during Cafe Mocha, you can't betray that promise before that event.

 

[alex2011]

I am talking here from the hypothetical perspective of someone that:
A: Doesn't use a guide.
B: Doesn't roll back and accepts the consequences of where they click.
This hypothetical person, in my opinion, isn't really guilty of betraying anyone.

Yes, and I am mentioning this because we, and the hypothetical player I described, just don't know when this happens.

And we didn't know this. Again, imagine getting stuck with the main story, you go and randomly pursue the girls' events trying to get out of this lock.

This is all I am arguing about. Trying to do Chika's events, on its own, doesn't mean you were trying to be a bad homie.

Yes, and I am mentioning this because we, and the hypothetical player I described, just don't know when this happens.

If this hypothetical person had read the thread, which everyone should before they even download just in case the game contains something they don't like, like how a bunch have commented negatively on the horror elements, they would be guaranteed to know when it happens. The interactions between the beach event and Schadenfreude is easily the most talked about topic in the entire thread.

And we didn't know this. Again, imagine getting stuck with the main story, you go and randomly pursue the girls' events trying to get out of this lock.

This is all I am arguing about. Trying to do Chika's events, on its own, doesn't mean you were trying to be a bad homie.

Same as above on the first sentence. The information is easily accessible in multiple places both in and out of the game. There is a trigger list found in this thread BECAUSE people keep getting stuck on events that actually do have prerequisite events. Doing Chika's events in general does not make the player a bad homie, but doing the one event that has no ties to anything except locking out Rin's events, as well as the one event you were told by the girl herself and multiple times in this thread, which once again should have been the very first thing any user on here should do for any game in case of things they do not want to see, not to do until after the beach event is what makes the player a bad homie. If Schadenfreude is triggered during the promise's time frame, the promise is broken. Broken promise = bad homie.

You can't betray a promise that is not in effect, and the promise is only in effect after it has been made. Since it's only made during Cafe Mocha, you can't betray that promise before that event.

The promise is in effect until the beach event regardless, what the player can trigger is learning about it.

 

[AgumenticR]

The promise is in effect until the beach event regardless, what the player can trigger is learning about it.

No, it's not. Player's actions determine when the event happens, not when the player learns about it - as a proof, Sensei's reactions during Cafe Mocha changes depending on whether Chika has kissed him, whether they had sex or whether nothing happened, all depending on player's actions before the event. So, since the promise is not made until Cafe Mocha, it is possible to get Schaudenfreude without breaking it.

 

[alex2011]

No, it's not. Player's actions determine when the event happens, not when the player learns about it - as a proof, Sensei's reactions during Cafe Mocha changes depending on whether Chika has kissed him, whether they had sex or whether nothing happened, all depending on player's actions before the event. So, since the promise is not made until Cafe Mocha, it is possible to get Schaudenfreude without breaking it.

The promise still remains in effect regardless of seeing Cafe Mocha since there is no dialogue otherwise when the promise is broken without seeing it.

 

[DrFree]

If this hypothetical person had read the thread, which everyone should before they even download just in case the game contains something they don't like

Not everyone wants to spoil themselves. I do it in a regular basis, but others go in blind, and don't rely on guides or walkthroughs.
And don't compare it to the horror parts of the game. There is a warning in the very game's start about disturbing stuff images and what not.
And if not, the horror tag is there for everyone to see. Hypothetical player-kun doesn't need to read the entire thread at all.

 

[AgumenticR]

The promise still remains in effect regardless of seeing Cafe Mocha since there is no dialogue otherwise when the promise is broken without seeing it.

The promise is in effect by the time of the beach event, because you have to clear Cafe Mocha by then. But it's not in effect before Cafe Mocha, for obvious reasons.

 

[DrFree]

Ok, a sudden realization. The text about the girl with the green scarf: I am now thinking it could be Ami instead of Maya. Think about it, Ami ALSO got a green scarf, specifically to match Maya's.
And the text said the girl confessed -> cried of happiness when she was accepted -> felt loved "for the first time" after fingered.

Now, we have been talking about how Maya is just putting a stoic front to avoid getting attached.
But doesn't this description fit Ami more than it does Maya? Ami's need for love has been more than transparent through the game so far.
As a side note, I got some of the hexa in the 2nd reset:

Spoiler: Hexa

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Oh well.

 

[Ponyboy451]

All these people talking about what constitutes "betrayal", and I'm just sitting here hoping my niece doesn't kill me in my sleep.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

Spoiler

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If you play Girl Talk Pt II (Main) before Good Day, Humans (Rin event where she calls you homie for the first time), she uses bro since the homie thing hasn't happened yet.

 

[KnowNoHope]

so that was your solution... cool

 

[thefetussundae]

Also it's a betrayal because Rin shouldn't have to ask her teacher, no matter how chummy he is with his students, not to finger her best friend who is also her age.

Sensei is an adult teacher. If you were a teenager who was into someone and you found out your friend was already with that person, that's shitty but ultimately you probably both get over it after some yelling and/or ghosting. If you found out your teacher who you had opened up to about your mental illness was with that person it's a completely different level of emotional response.

Rin has no reason to believe Sensei would actually have any sort of sexual relations with a student, so even if she doesn't specifically ask you not to go after Chika she has every right to feel upset, furious, even disgusted (and yes, especially betrayed!) if and when she finds out he did. Because of his position and age there is no reason she should specifically have to ask Sensei to stay away from her crush until she gets a shot.

That's why she doesn't seem to know how to react when she does find out. She's completely blindsided. The one advantage she had in confessing to Chika was that there wasn't supposed to be any competition, then she finds out the one adult she trusted with her mental illness and sexual identity didn't trust her enough to at least give her the heads up that he was interested in Chika.

Yes it's a game and the gameplay loop pushes us to sleep with the students to unlock more scenes, but this genre uses that inherent reward loop of nonsensical behavior as a trap by introducing real world consequences (which as I said before, Sensei has gotten off extremely lightly for his behavior so far).

If you want to follow the "best" route then keep multiple saves and be more careful in the future, it isn't the last trap Selebus is going to lay by a long shot.

Personally I like it. I usually don't have the stones to play as anything but the (horny) goody two shoes so I miss out on this sort of content. I love that Selebus uses gameplay reward loops to trap us into negative scenes because they end up being brilliantly written.

 

[Wolfyna]

I wanna preface this by saying that I think your game is great. I love your writing and humor and the little touches of darkness here and there are creepy and uncomfortable at the right moments exactly because they can appear at any time. I also didn't read the tags, so the first time I got a happy event I was very scared(so cool). I also unfortunately spoiled Doki Doki for myself so this was a very nice surprise.

But I feel like the way you have to wait so long for the normal events is very annoying, I mean I guess you could say that's the point but I feel like you got that across fairly well with the individual events with the girls taking so long to unlock(I didn't mind grinding that much because the skip button exists and doing it for your writing was worth it)so it felt somewhat unnecessary.

And the other thing is that even though the character you play isn't a self insert ,the game tries to guilt about your actions even though(so it seems to me)they are the only way to advance the story and unlock the other girls .At the start I just wanted to do Miku's story but I looked it up here and it seems I need some normal event to get more of her scenes(its kabiliontrilion I think). So I just started to do the other girls storyline and now then the game starts judging you for playing the game the only way it can be played and it doesn't really feel genuine to me and that's kind of a shame .I'm at the beach event currently so I'm sorry if I'm bringing up problems that get resolved after that.

I guess I can bring up a lack of individual scenes on some girls but with the game still being in development and having so many girls that is totally excusable(though I myself would prefer more events for existing girls rather than new characters being added)

 

[thefetussundae]

I wanna preface this by saying that I think your game is great. I love your writing and humor and the little touches of darkness here and there are creepy and uncomfortable at the right moments exactly because they can appear at any time. I also didn't read the tags, so the first time I got a happy event I was very scared(so cool). I also unfortunately spoiled Doki Doki for myself so this was a very nice surprise.

But I feel like the way you have to wait so long for the normal events is very annoying, I mean I guess you could say that's the point but I feel like you got that across fairly well with the individual events with the girls taking so long to unlock(I didn't mind grinding that much because the skip button exists and doing it for your writing was worth it)so it felt somewhat unnecessary.

And the other thing is that even though the character you play isn't a self insert ,the game tries to guilt about your actions even though(so it seems to me)they are the only way to advance the story and unlock the other girls .At the start I just wanted to do Miku's story but I looked it up here and it seems I need some normal event to get more of her scenes(its kabiliontrilion I think). So I just started to do the other girls storyline and now then the game starts judging you for playing the game the only way it can be played and it doesn't really feel genuine to me and that's kind of a shame .I'm at the beach event currently so I'm sorry if I'm bringing up problems that get resolved after that.

I guess I can bring up a lack of individual scenes on some girls but with the game still being in development and having so many girls that is totally excusable(though I myself would prefer more events for existing girls rather than new characters being added)

Just remember it's still extremely early in development and the story is essentially being unveiled through development. As I understand, purity routes (the kind of route where you focus entirely on one girl) won't be implemented until after the main story is done, probably over a year from now before we see the start of the first one.

Miku specifically doesn't have a ton of content yet.

 

[KAardvark]

First time posting on this site, never have commented much on forums but felt the need to this time. I liked this game at first the psychological aspect was interesting and the comedy was actually funny, but after this latest update and it's "puzzle" that's changed.

The "happy" events have always had pointlessly(and often meaninglessly) narrow windows with zero hints; going so far as to not even be necessary(until they are and grind the game to a halt). For the most part these events have meandering trains of thought masquerading as meaningful, often repeating themselves endlessly, as well as some semi-weird imagery(and let's not forget the hex-code for everyone who wants to breakout the calculator). That is until they have information that is REQUIRED to progress, information you have no reason to write down because honestly most of these events are gibberish unless you want to breakout a fucking cypher, so much gibberish in fact that I would often hold down skip because I got the point in the first 5 lines and didn't need the repetition. But what am I saying that accounts for only half of the puzzle, the other half requires sound(great accessibility concern there buddy I'm not deaf but I mute my porn because moans only have so many variations) and a near blind guess(unless you happen to exist in the developers head). I know people on this forum will yell that I should "just pay attention" but no happy event 10 I got literally months ago, I may have even copied the IP at that time and then erased it because IT WASN'T USED ANYWHERE IN THAT UPDATE, and then promptly forgot that line ever existed(just one more bit of gibberish in the mountain of it).

So if you're looking for simple answers to this game just open the guide, the developer or his rabid fanbase seem determined to keep information about the puzzle a secret out of some misguided sense that the player hasn't EARNED IT yet, you know the usual gamer gatekeeping bullshit.

And to the dev, I understand you have your rabid fans and mostly likely don't give a shit about anything resembling meaningful feedback, but clean up your fucking puzzles and take peoples preferences and limitations into account. If I find another puzzle like this in future versions I'm out, and yes I'm aware you probably don't care.