Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.48.0] [Selebus]

[SlidingSubject]

I think a significant majority of LiL readers have been long exhausted with the writing of Selebus, and are exclusively—or at least mostly—invested in LiL for two sole reasons: the characters and the purpose of it all (the time loop overarching plotline)

On a meta level, you can only be exhausted with Selebus' writing and still be invested in the story and characters if what you like is the idea behind the story or the characters. The execution is too tied to Selebus' writing. Being exhausted with Selebus, tho, is a different matter.
If it's the case where what you like is only the idea, there's a multitude of LiL "clones" to choose depending on how close to the LiL idea you want to be, and in each of those, you can see the quality is VERY different compared to LiL (not being too critical on SOME of those, LiL just set the goal too high, the few of them I chose to read have all my love). Like it or not, Selebus' way of telling the story is what has kept this going on despite Selebus.
Or, if you want.

Spoiler: a summary until now

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It doesn't take an awe-inspiring amount of talent to drop a winning hook and spend actual years drawing it out while simultaneously bragging about the length, but not the efficiency of said story.

As pretentious as this may sound, the story that is being told through LiL needs the drawing out, otherwise it's efficiency WILL suffer. It'd just feel like a disturbing apologetic piece, or worse, something that even with a thorough reading feels like it's just throwing shit to the wall for mere shock value. Only actual critic would be to the sandbox model, though even there the generic events flesh out stuff.
EDIT: And, as mentioned in the post above mine, the basic idea is that, basic, but LiL has been kept afloat because of the execution of said idea.

 

[Snakk]

First off, it seems like we have jumped the gun on the scarf thing. Going back to Rough cuts, it doesn't seem to be that the scarf is that important, but moreso the act of Akira gifting Maya a green scarf, because the very same scarves show up again during a later reset without Himawari being involved.

Spoiler: Rough cuts

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To check for sure I went back to when Maya gets it:

Spoiler: Stray cat

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There's nothing in it that says it's the same old scarf. However that does beg the question of why alt Maya Prime has it. Maybe it's that we're lacking additional models, and that the scarf we see in Stray cat is just a green scarf, whereas the scarf we're seeing with alt Maya Prime is the actual old original green scarf... idk.

and

The reason I went over all the scarf history is that Himawari identifying this as an old winter garment might be that this is the actual original scarf, rather than the scarf she sold to Akira originally.

Hey, sorry if I missed something or misinterpreted or someone has already said it as I didn't read the following four pages yet.
A thought occurred: since it is alt Maya that gives the scarf to Ayane as a way to make her other self remember - utilizing the theory about Himawari delivering it back to her - after receiving it back in ch1 she realizes she had been reset at some point in the future, and that a different her may get such an idea (giving it back to her) or alternatively: that different her was actually her-her; that timeline was in fact original Maya's past - she remembers giving it to Ayane after being told that she was reset(?). Perhaps it might be the very origin of the green scarf.
And another loose thought: the fact that the other scarf in the store is a darker shade of green may indicate that the other was brought from a different timeline/the future and its colour has faded due to its age; that both are actually the same one scarf, on the account of Himawari traveling through space and time.

 

[Marie IV]

LiL has some fantastic writing, i dont know what youre on about. if you happen to have an absolute goldmine of things close to the quality of LiL, i'd love to see it.

"Artists are the gatekeepers of truth."

fact of the matter is, it does actually take a lot of talent to write something like this. even thinking that AI could come remotely close to this honestly says more about you than anything.

Contextualizing this, it was a joke I made off of a pivot that a fundamental problem with LiL is that nothing conclusive ever happens. Nobody knows if there are plotholes in LiL because nothing ever happens for sure. You can call that a strength if you like, but myself and others would call that a cop-out and a bad one at that. I would prefer LiL greatly if it progressed a bit faster than years at a time.

I'm not sure what my comment about AI says about myself, when AI is already well capable of writing convincing novels and movies at this time. I don't think writing character interactions is especially talented or troublesome for AI with some human revision. Maybe self-reflection is due for everyone.

On a meta level, you can only be exhausted with Selebus' writing and still be invested in the story and characters if what you like is the idea behind the story or the characters. The execution is too tied to Selebus' writing. Being exhausted with Selebus, tho, is a different matter [...] there's a multitude of LiL "clones" to choose depending on how close to the LiL idea you want to be, and in each of those, you can see the quality is VERY different compared to LiL

I acknowledge that and would clarify that I'm exclusively exhausted with the writing. That was meant to be more of a harsh literary assessment than one of Selebus' character since ultimately that's what I marginally care about, and I don't mean to diminish anyone who has enjoyed LiL through and through. To say the bar is too high is a fair counter and a real bias readers may have. While I agree that there isn't a lot like LiL, that however doesn't make me any less bored of it. And in jest, I have would appreciated an actual summary too, as I haven't considered LiL worth reading for a while. By doing so it may just put into perspective how little has actually happened in the context of years, which I know is a harsh thing to say once things seem to be progressing now, but that wasn't the case for very long, and what I would say, is an uncessary amount of time spent on filler. I'm not excited for another beach party, reset minigame, or dorm war.

 

[VoidExile]

Day 21 character count 12904.

Spoiler: Day 328-339, some reactions, thoughts and questions

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Spoiler: Tierlist

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Spoiler: Uh oh, secret third spoiler, I wonder what garbage 3 minute photoshop is hiding here

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[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: 0.47 Preview

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[psychotomimetic]

Contextualizing this, it was a joke I made off of a pivot that a fundamental problem with LiL is that nothing conclusive ever happens. Nobody knows if there are plotholes in LiL because nothing ever happens for sure. You can call that a strength if you like, but myself and others would call that a cop-out and a bad one at that. I would prefer LiL greatly if it progressed a bit faster than years at a time.

i'd say it's pretty hard to judge this when the game is not finished. im sure most shows worth watching have many unresolved plotlines if they were only watched 1/3 or halfway through.

and no, AI is absolutely not close to producing anything like this. it can spit out meaningless, generic and copy-pasted drivel endlessly, because it does in fact not generate, and it is not intelligent. it just roughly reproduces what has already been made.

 

[Marie IV]

Like it or not, Selebus' way of telling the story is what has kept this going on despite Selebus.
[...] the basic idea is that, basic, but LiL has been kept afloat because of the execution of said idea.

Right, of course, LiL succeeds in "keeping going" and being "kept afloat", but—hear me out— it doesn't need to:

Chapters 1-3 were great. The ending of Chapter 3 was just awesome. That's where Selebus should have stopped.
Chapter 4 is a different game. A sequel. Unnecessary, boring and stupid, as sequels always are.

It is okay for works of art to end. A fundamental problem Selebus has though, is that it seems like he is doing everything possible to make sure that doesn't happen. This seems to manifest in vagueness, overabundance of literary nonsense, and inaction. There are many external factors to this of course, one could say if LiL ends, so does Selebus' ability to buy food, but being generous in putting that aside, the simplicity of saying LiL is the longest visual novel in existance is not inherently a good thing. Why does LiL need to be this grand unending concept which is applauded for its length; a concept that is not inherently good or bad? It seems to be a far too influencing factor in LiL as a corporate, and this has for sure affected the exhasting writing greatly. This results in the oppressing critique, which I am voicing, just far more harshly than how Ma1phas has addressed it:

[...] But a lot of the rest is heavily reliant on minimal information, leaving the audience to speculate (which he seems to get mad about?). And the massive crutch of using deliberately opaque writing. Phrasing things in weird, murky ways is interesting in small doses, in large doses the sheen wears off and it just comes off as pretentious.

 

[Moonflare]

Spoiler: 0.47 Preview

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Himawari is Ami intensifies.

 

[Riolol]

Spoiler: 0.47 Preview

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I like it

 

[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: Another look at Nodaka's Ami cosplay

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[fdsasdf_p]

Spoiler: 0.47 Preview

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YAAAAS my favorite cyclops is returning! I honestly hope this overall style would stay...

I found myself losing major interests in Ch4 Sana. I probably am on the same with Sensei when he said he wanted Sana to stay smol, innocent, and timid forever so Sensei can keep prodding her for fun. But instead of keeping acting like an adorable hamster, half of the time Sana in Ch4 feels like a cute but mildly creepy Gollum, and I blame her revealing her second eye for it for whatever reason I may have.

 

[Moonflare]

Spoiler: Another look at Nodaka's Ami cosplay

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Spoiler: Becoming closer to closure

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If only Nodoka hadn't been killed by that same person, maybe she'd die of nosebleed on the possible incest implications/fantasies.

 

[Marie IV]

i'd say it's pretty hard to judge this when the game is not finished. im sure most shows worth watching have many unresolved plotlines if they were only watched 1/3 or halfway through.

I respect your assessment. LiL should've been finished ages ago.

and no, AI is absolutely not close to producing anything like this. it can spit out meaningless, generic and copy-pasted drivel endlessly, because it does in fact not generate, and it is not intelligent. it just roughly reproduces what has already been made.

 

[psychotomimetic]

isnt it saying exactly what i wrote, but just with a lot less spite?
it cant write long and coherent stories, it has trouble with deep emotional resonance, and it relies on humans for depth and originality.

EDIT:
just adding on to this to avoid further spamming with pointless discussions.

which is certainly within its capabilities, and you disbelieved that.

and with the AI stating that it never asserted the ability to write, what i consider to be the defining characteristics of LiL, even in this post, i think it is fair to say that i am correct in disbelieving that it is "within its capabilities". contradicting itself within 3 sentences. nice.
anyhow, i think this boils down to matters of belief and preference, so i dont think much more can be gained by going on.

 

[Marie IV]

isnt it saying exactly what i wrote, but just with a lot less spite?
it cant write long and coherent stories, it has trouble with deep emotional resonance, and it relies on humans for depth and originality.

I never asserted anything about AI being able to write with "deep emotional resonance", or not being reliant on humans for "depth and originality". My critique actually could be that LiL has written itself away from those qualities, especially so that it's lacking coherency (literary nonsense is a major aspect of LiL). Because of this, I jested that AI could be used as a prompt to write LiL without readers noticing, which is certainly within its capabilities, and you disbelieved that. I then responded in turn by prompting AI to answer, and then prompted it to write this response with my snarky attitude and tone, and if you're reading this, this response has been generated by AI and revised by a human lorem ipsum...

I've joked about this before, where I wagered that Selebus could probably finish his game using ChatGPT AI writing prompts and nobody would notice.

AI is already well capable of writing convincing novels and movies at this time. I don't think writing character interactions is especially talented or troublesome for AI with some human revision.

 

[Josh M Spicer]

Spoiler: .47 spoiler preview that dropped as I entered the thread

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[barglenarglezous]

If only Nodoka hadn't been killed by that same person, maybe she'd die of nosebleed on the possible incest implications/fantasies.

After devouring Nodoka's biomass, Ami takes on some new traits.

 

[somepersonoutofnowhere]

Spoiler: 0.47 Preview

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I don't need the Nodoka stuff in the background to know it's Nodoka, I can tell it's not Ami because Amis tits are smaller than Tsuaksas, the only one who's gonna have pink eye and brown hair but yet tits bigger than Amis own pair and Osakos ass, is Nodoka.

 

[Riolol]

After devouring Nodoka's biomass, Ami takes on some new traits.

Her incest fetish grew three sizes that day

 

[Detective Dc345]

I don't need the Nodoka stuff in the background to know it's Nodoka, I can tell it's not Ami because Amis tits are smaller than Tsuaksas, the only one who's gonna have pink eye and brown hair but yet tits bigger than Amis own pair and Osakos ass, is Nodoka.

Ami doesn't have tits. She just has really large nipples