Let's Talk Game Mechanics!

[DuniX]

I am trying to create True Dynamic Social Gameplay and Drama for an Erotic Sandbox Game.
Breaking off from the linear scripted scenes have dynamic interactions even if they are going to be more basic and generic.
Artificial Academy works like this, but the problem is AA doesn't really have that interesting gameplay, it's more of an excuse for sex scenes than actual gameplay.

The only Gameplay Dynamic I found that might work is with Mafia/Werwolf style Social Deduction Games.
Games like

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with their Class Roles and there Abilities/Function, or maybe Space Station 13 with Antagonists and Social Hierarchy, Authority and Access, maybe some Hitman mechanics like disguises.
Although that would need to be adapted with AI simulation as it cannot be strictly "social deduction" without human players, things like hidden information and class role powers should work even without humans.
The Player also need the advantage to always have options to "win the game". You don't want the player to be fuck by RNG based on what the AI decided with nothing you can do about it.
Although making the game short into round of about 2-6 hours might be a good idea and add some repeatability.

The AI should have its own Agency as in doing stuff in the world. They should always use their Role Powers and once the Player manages to Control or Manipulate them he should be able to use their powers also.
It would be kinda like a Strategy game where you and your Enemy Opposition are Recruiting NPCs and using them against each other.

Another Observation I have is while in most games You The Player are always in Control and have All the Agency and interesting idea is for the players themselves to be controlled.
Just like you are hunting for information and manipulating things the AI Agents might also discover evidence of crimes and use that as blackmail or capture you in some ways.
How it works is Players can be given Quests or Tasks that they have to do or it is Game Over, or they might restrict your access to locations so it would be a kind of like a escape room style puzzle game.
Players should find and exploit weakness and maybe change the situation around.
Starless had this kind of themes. Nice Femdom and BDSM content opportunity.

The Big Problem I have is the Setting.
I need a Setting that has a good source of Dramatic Conflict and Protagonists/Antagonist Dynamic, or maybe Factions in Conflict with each other.
I would also need a more concrete Goal or Endings which both you and your Opposition need to pursue so that there is a conflict and generates drama.

Some ideas:
A Superhero World where characters have random powers, and where the Player has Mind Control Powers(with some limitation, think Code Geass). That Power would be naturally Highly Illegal and Dangerous so the player will have to keep it hidden at all costs. Because of the Superpowers society is highly hierarchical with those with lesser powers are being exploited by those at the top, the player would be at the bottom since he needs to hide it and pretends to have something minor. Villains vs Heroes Factions duking it out and if they find out they might want to use it for their own schemes.
Not so sure about what the Goal and conflict is.

Another is basically Hogwarts Magic Academy but with fucking. All magic is Sex Magic that can be extracted with fetishes that give it its type. Multiple Factions competing with each other based on the fetish type alignment. Again the society is highly hierarchical and clique based as students compete and enslave each other so that they can extract more mana, maybe the teachers get in on it too as top dogs.
The Goal would be to win for your faction? Be the leader? Maybe some secret nefarious Bible Black stuff.

Third is there is an Inheritance from an old uncle where the other relatives have to compete with each other while learning magic and using their powers. The Goal this time is simple, get the inheritance, but I don't like the setting much.
One note is I really like those wild expressions and emotions would be grate if I could implement them in the game together with the drama.

I also like the setting in Kakegurui Manga with the psycho bitches, it would go perfect with fucking. But I am not sure how to make that work.

I also need ideas for Character Classes and their Power/Abilities like Offensive,Defensive,Support and Investigative and how to make it related to the erotic stuff.

 

[SerokMinmas]

Forgive me, I am a bit late to the discussion.

I think a player stat system is best, since you can use it to compound effects and determine interesting reactions and events (ie arousal, energy, 'something' size).

I don't mean the ones with a basic scoring system which are often just grind fests

when is grinding good?

Grinding is in my opinion completely shit, the less of it you have in a game the better, I understand why it exists (Artificial lengthening/difficulty) but quite honestly thats just lazy.

I always liked a milestone system for leveling up something, and that came straight from TTRPGs. If the player participates in an entry-level event (Swallowing) it enables him to participate in more "advanced" events (Cum-Guzzling Fiesta), makes no sense to force the player to participate multiple times in the first event, and the gameplay emerges from finding the next one.

And that COULD be displayed to the player as a simple "Hey Cum-Swallow Level Increased!", but it would make no sense to keep rewarding players for that action.

Logical flow and progression - you don't want an issue where a girl is willing to get stripped naked and fucked in a park but then is to prude to do a bathing suit competition.

The failure to relate similar events tho, can lead to a failure in logical flow and progression like Numbers over there said, but I would put that as a development mistake, an error in the part of the programmer rather than an error with the mechanics.

Theres the point and click method, either navigator through a house in a VN or the world map. sometimes I like these because I can get in a bit of a groove with them, moving as fast as I want, unlike walking simulator... I mean RPGmaker games.

I would say exploration or adventure would work much better in a world that actually lives. Like npcs walking around, a smoke trail out of a chimney, a bird flying by, etc. It's a lot harder to do for sure, but it would beat standing still scenes every time.

I think in the end, if you look at most of the games made in Twine, or Renpy, or RPGMaker that have a little bit of life-simulatory feel to them (You have days and you have stats and you hunt for events that trigger when stats are high enough, you know the kind), they are all the same game, just different flavors and slightly different mechanics.

Now thats not nescessarily bad (Heh, I'm making one of those, shameless plug over), since they are popular for a reason, the point is figuring out what that reason is and what to do to make them better.

And I think one of the things that make those games interesting is PRECISELY a bunch of exploration, I remember playing Vitamin Plus, and while the game has a bunch of extremely questionable content (No kink-shaming, you do you), I feel that it did exploration EXTREMELY well, and all it did differently was give a bit of a shit about what was going on around the player, it was fun to walk around, I think taking the time to immerse the player in his surroundings has way more value than artificially lengthening the game with stat grinding.

They write the base story completely through. Then go back and write the branches one by one.

That's a very interesting way of writing branching paths, never thought of it like that, thanks Numbers (Your name is Numbers to me sorry <3)

 

[DuniX]

And I think one of the things that make those games interesting is PRECISELY a bunch of exploration, I remember playing Vitamin Plus, and while the game has a bunch of extremely questionable content (No kink-shaming, you do you), I feel that it did exploration EXTREMELY well, and all it did differently was give a bit of a shit about what was going on around the player, it was fun to walk around, I think taking the time to immerse the player in his surroundings has way more value than artificially lengthening the game with stat grinding.

That is not going to happen in This Market.
With Early Access and Patreon and drip feeding content any sense of exploration will be long gone.
Exploration should be ruled out from the start and replace with other Mechanics that are more Evergreen.

 

[SerokMinmas]

That is not going to happen in This Market.
With Early Access and Patreon and drip feeding content any sense of exploration will be long gone.
Exploration should be ruled out from the start and replace with other Mechanics that are more Evergreen.

I completely disagree.

Drip-feeding content and exploration can go perfectly hand in hand. And quite honestly if you are planning your game based on how much money you are going to get on Patreon, the game's going to be shit, just take a look at the hundreds of abandoned games in the games section.

I'm not against making money as a developer, people need to eat, but when you change YOUR game to fit mechanics that are more in line with Patreon money, then the game isn't really yours anymore is it.

If you make something good people will come (Giggity), maybe not thousands of them, because there really are more and less popular subjects, but quality is always something that shines through.

And do remember that that was a reasonably popular game at the time, that warranted two (questionable quality) sequels.

 

[DuniX]

Drip-feeding content and exploration can go perfectly hand in hand.

How when you know exactly what content you will get in the changelog?

And quite honestly if you are planning your game based on how much money you are going to get on Patreon,

So you will release a full game from the start? Even if you do how are you going to sell it? On Steam? What if it denies you based on their ever shifting whims on sexual content?

Yes if you release a full game sure. But if you don't then don't pretend like you are going to do anything different.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

I am trying to create True Dynamic Social Gameplay and Drama for an Erotic Sandbox Game.
Breaking off from the linear scripted scenes have dynamic interactions even if they are going to be more basic and generic.
Artificial Academy works like this, but the problem is AA doesn't really have that interesting gameplay, it's more of an excuse for sex scenes than actual gameplay.

The only Gameplay Dynamic I found that might work is with Mafia/Werwolf style Social Deduction Games.
Games like

You must be registered to see the links

with their Class Roles and there Abilities/Function, or maybe Space Station 13 with Antagonists and Social Hierarchy, Authority and Access, maybe some Hitman mechanics like disguises.
Although that would need to be adapted with AI simulation as it cannot be strictly "social deduction" without human players, things like hidden information and class role powers should work even without humans.
The Player also need the advantage to always have options to "win the game". You don't want the player to be fuck by RNG based on what the AI decided with nothing you can do about it.
Although making the game short into round of about 2-6 hours might be a good idea and add some repeatability.

The AI should have its own Agency as in doing stuff in the world. They should always use their Role Powers and once the Player manages to Control or Manipulate them he should be able to use their powers also.
It would be kinda like a Strategy game where you and your Enemy Opposition are Recruiting NPCs and using them against each other.

Another Observation I have is while in most games You The Player are always in Control and have All the Agency and interesting idea is for the players themselves to be controlled.
Just like you are hunting for information and manipulating things the AI Agents might also discover evidence of crimes and use that as blackmail or capture you in some ways.
How it works is Players can be given Quests or Tasks that they have to do or it is Game Over, or they might restrict your access to locations so it would be a kind of like a escape room style puzzle game.
Players should find and exploit weakness and maybe change the situation around.
Starless had this kind of themes. Nice Femdom and BDSM content opportunity.

The Big Problem I have is the Setting.
I need a Setting that has a good source of Dramatic Conflict and Protagonists/Antagonist Dynamic, or maybe Factions in Conflict with each other.
I would also need a more concrete Goal or Endings which both you and your Opposition need to pursue so that there is a conflict and generates drama.

Some ideas:
A Superhero World where characters have random powers, and where the Player has Mind Control Powers(with some limitation, think Code Geass). That Power would be naturally Highly Illegal and Dangerous so the player will have to keep it hidden at all costs. Because of the Superpowers society is highly hierarchical with those with lesser powers are being exploited by those at the top, the player would be at the bottom since he needs to hide it and pretends to have something minor. Villains vs Heroes Factions duking it out and if they find out they might want to use it for their own schemes.
Not so sure about what the Goal and conflict is.

Another is basically Hogwarts Magic Academy but with fucking. All magic is Sex Magic that can be extracted with fetishes that give it its type. Multiple Factions competing with each other based on the fetish type alignment. Again the society is highly hierarchical and clique based as students compete and enslave each other so that they can extract more mana, maybe the teachers get in on it too as top dogs.
The Goal would be to win for your faction? Be the leader? Maybe some secret nefarious Bible Black stuff.

Third is there is an Inheritance from an old uncle where the other relatives have to compete with each other while learning magic and using their powers. The Goal this time is simple, get the inheritance, but I don't like the setting much.
One note is I really like those wild expressions and emotions would be grate if I could implement them in the game together with the drama.

I also like the setting in Kakegurui Manga with the psycho bitches, it would go perfect with fucking. But I am not sure how to make that work.

I also need ideas for Character Classes and their Power/Abilities like Offensive,Defensive,Support and Investigative and how to make it related to the erotic stuff.

ah, I see your post now, yes.

 

[khumak]

I just remembered something related to this,

I often find that the more control or choice you give to a player, the exponentially more work I have to do to create the game.

two common things are fake game mechanics, such as fake story line choice, or at least a bit better, one right answer choice. Then there are actual game mechanics, such as maybe some combination of clothes or potions, but either the actual choice doesn't matter or there are only a few right solutions.

while I am not a fan of these, mostly because I want every answer to be a right answer, something that leads to continues un broken gameplay experiences. But I think I understand why some devs give up and introduce fake choice. I am not saying it is ok, infact i don't ever plan to do multiple storyline games because I just can't figure out how to retell a story in another way. I can barly figure out one story much less multple. but I feel that many who start out, due to inexperience don't relize just how much work it takes, or rather how much more work there is, when you give players more choice. They've already been working for a while and they don't want to scrap everything they have done, so they put in a basic fix aka a fake choice.

It is kinda why I look more towards game mechanics in games than story, because if you are clever you can automate teh work for you buy how you design your game.

I think the idea of adding choices that matter without making the game too complicated is something that most devs don't do very well. Most games I play on here fall into a few patterns from what I've noticed:

1. Fake choices: You have 2 or more options to choose from but they both point the exact same event. Maybe 1 of them adds an extra bonus to some counter like love, lust, or whatever but there's otherwise no difference.
2. The single option choice: You have a "choice" that only has a single option. It's literally impossible to choose anything other than this option. Why is it even a choice?
3. The game over/bad ending: Choice A continues the story. Choice B gives you a game over/bad ending. If more than a tiny minority of your choices fall into this category then they aren't really choices, it's just forced save scumming.
4. Entirely separate plot divergence: This is much less common and basically has the game diverge into an entirely separate plotline closing off the options that the other option would lead to. This creates WAY too much work for the dev to include very many choices like this because every choice like this basically requires you to make a separate game for each choice.

The fourth option is the one most players would love to see if it wasn't so hard to create for. It's simply too much work though. It's just not going to happen.

The first 3 options should seldom if ever be used IMO. Personally, I like to see choices set up to where they lead to separate but diverging scenes for a short time and then reconverge back into the main plotline. This allows you to create choices that truely do lead you to different scenes within the game without having to create a whole separate game for each choice.

Creating choices like that with a short term divergence that reconverge gives the player the illusion that their choices really matter while still guiding them back to your main plotline after each little detour. You might for instance have 2 possible endings to the game and the player is guaranteed to wind up at one of those 2 divergent endings but all of the other options the player chooses reconverge back on to one of those 2 main paths.

 

[lancelotdulak]

I think there are4 reasons most games fail. 1. Is bad mechanics. 2. is horrible graphics. 3. is abandoning the game premise and forcing players on other paths. IE "heres a game about X fetish with y character but i changed my mind on update 3 and am forcing you to endure soemthing different". 4 is the worst... no discernable game mechanics just whatever the dev felt like "oh you have to be in the kitchen at midnight on tuesday after youve been mean to X "

We have Examples of great mechanics and theyre successful games. Big brother , bad bobby, dmd, cohabitation, lewd island. Cohabitation has pretty bad graphics but the game is brilliant. Big brother' and bad bobby have the same mechanics and MOSTLY dont have 'mysterious game mechanic". Lewd island and DMD are really VN's with some grind/building throwin in with no illogic you cant cheat your way around. etc.

One of the biggest problems is the amount of content you have to produce for anythign that isnt a one path vn. Each choice doubles your renders or more. And unless the player replays the game they miss at least half the renders. This is stuff you need to plan from the beginning and NON adult game devs map this all out in our heads long before we start coding

 

[DuniX]

I think the idea of adding choices that matter without making the game too complicated is something that most devs don't do very well.

If you want choices in terms of mechanics instead of just story you just need to make it a strategy game.

Although you might ask what is a strategy game doing together with porn, which is a good question to ask because that is also something I want to know.

I mean I am looking for a setting that makes sense so that porn and strategy can mix.
Have the Characters and their Relationships be like Pawns in a game of chess.

 

[probably_dave]

I agree, there's more than just storyline choices that can impact how a player enjoys a game.

The problem I find with most of the adult games on here is when you are encountered with a problem/quest/love interest there's usually only one way to progress.

As an example, the player needs to climb a cliff to get something. In most games, you have to find a specific item that will then allow you to achieve that goal (e.g. a rope).

However, these could be split into different options:
A) Try and climb the cliff > Get Item > You fall > Brief hospital scene
B.1) Go and find something to help you > Find a nearby rope > Hook rope on nearby branch > Get Item > Branch disturbs bees > Get stung a lot > Slightly different brief Hospital scene
B.2) Go and find something to help you > Steal a ladder > Peeking scene while stealing ladder > Get Item
C.1) See if you can get someone to help > Go to Gym > Ask climbing instructor to help > Instructor climbing cliff scene > Get Item
C.2) See if you can get someone to help > Go to Gym > Ask climbing instructor to train > Learning to climb scene > Climb cliff > Get Item

Although in this example, the player always ends up with the item, the process of getting the item varies giving the player the choice of how to achieve the goal. In addition, although the amount of scenes has gone from 1 to 5, each scene is kept brief so the amount of work for the developer/artist can be kept under control.

Each of these could potentially impact the side-stories in a way too. For example, if you are constantly ending up in hospital from different 'tasks', it can open additional scenes or options for further choices down the line.

 

[khumak]

I agree, there's more than just storyline choices that can impact how a player enjoys a game.

The problem I find with most of the adult games on here is when you are encountered with a problem/quest/love interest there's usually only one way to progress.

As an example, the player needs to climb a cliff to get something. In most games, you have to find a specific item that will then allow you to achieve that goal (e.g. a rope).

However, these could be split into different options:
A) Try and climb the cliff > Get Item > You fall > Brief hospital scene
B.1) Go and find something to help you > Find a nearby rope > Hook rope on nearby branch > Get Item > Branch disturbs bees > Get stung a lot > Slightly different brief Hospital scene
B.2) Go and find something to help you > Steal a ladder > Peeking scene while stealing ladder > Get Item
C.1) See if you can get someone to help > Go to Gym > Ask climbing instructor to help > Instructor climbing cliff scene > Get Item
C.2) See if you can get someone to help > Go to Gym > Ask climbing instructor to train > Learning to climb scene > Climb cliff > Get Item

Although in this example, the player always ends up with the item, the process of getting the item varies giving the player the choice of how to achieve the goal. In addition, although the amount of scenes has gone from 1 to 5, each scene is kept brief so the amount of work for the developer/artist can be kept under control.

Each of these could potentially impact the side-stories in a way too. For example, if you are constantly ending up in hospital from different 'tasks', it can open additional scenes or options for further choices down the line.

Yeah this is a good example of the type of short term branch that reconverges back to the main story that I was talking about. In your example every choice leads to you getting the item, which presumably is important to continuing the story. But each choice you can pick for getting the item leads to a different short term scene before reconverging again. Your choice may not have had a major impact on the game but you get to see different scenes for each choice so it feels like an actual choice.

If all of the outcomes for your choices are identical then it's not really a choice. You might as well just narrate the story with zero choices as if it was a noninteractive movie.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

I agree with what all yall are saying, but I think you are all focusing on visual novel like game mechanics. The same issues also arise from other mechanics. Such as, say making a diablo style game, which is what I want to make. in this case, choices come not in picking equipment or story options, but instead it is based on stats. say you have a speed and an attack per hit stat. these are two different factors that could influence your choice making (assuming you are ignoring general DPS). the more stats, the more game mechanics needed, the more items needed to make each mechanic feel well explore. just as you need each branching story well written to make it feel like there isn't just one true story.

 

[SerokMinmas]

2. The single option choice: You have a "choice" that only has a single option. It's literally impossible to choose anything other than this option. Why is it even a choice?

Completely agree, non-options are stupid, in things like Twine or other heavily text based systems they can be used as a pacing mechanism, so you dont have a whole wall of text with image spoilers just shown to you, but in RenPy or other VN style thing that is a non-problem due to the way that the dialogue is already presented in tiny sections.

The fourth option is the one most players would love to see if it wasn't so hard to create for. It's simply too much work though. It's just not going to happen.

Yes! it is the option that I believe most players would want, Indeed it is way too much work, but there are ways around it.

Creating choices like that with a short term divergence that reconverge gives the player the illusion that their choices really matter while still guiding them back to your main plotline after each little detour. You might for instance have 2 possible endings to the game and the player is guaranteed to wind up at one of those 2 divergent endings but all of the other options the player chooses reconverge back on to one of those 2 main paths.

And this is one of them, this is a great solution, but I believe the main issue to be solved is lazy writing, having 2 choices that lead to the EXACT same dialogue, with no changes whatsoever, is just lazy, if you actually take your time and flesh out the choices, leading to small scenes for each option, maybe with small divergences in the original divergence, then you can have something great in your hands, and that is basically what you described.

But people dont plan their games, and just dive straight into it, and you end up with a mess (Not saying that diving straight into things head first is a bad thing, but planning is important.)

I agree with what all yall are saying, but I think you are all focusing on visual novel like game mechanics. The same issues also arise from other mechanics.

Yes, while these issues mainly plague games heavily based on story, all games have progression, and that is basically what we are discussing, in an RPG it can manifest differently than in a VN or strategy game, but in the end the same concepts apply, fleshed out options, be it in dialogue trees or skill trees.

 

[khumak]

I agree with what all yall are saying, but I think you are all focusing on visual novel like game mechanics. The same issues also arise from other mechanics. Such as, say making a diablo style game, which is what I want to make. in this case, choices come not in picking equipment or story options, but instead it is based on stats. say you have a speed and an attack per hit stat. these are two different factors that could influence your choice making (assuming you are ignoring general DPS). the more stats, the more game mechanics needed, the more items needed to make each mechanic feel well explore. just as you need each branching story well written to make it feel like there isn't just one true story.

I think the main challenge for an RPG style game is making the combat/quest system fun. Generally that type of game involves a lot of grinding for xp by killing monsters, etc. I think the specifics of the mechanics matter less than whether the combat is fun and varies enough not to get repetative. If the same tactic works for every fight then it won't stay fun very long.

Tuning difficulty can also be more of an issue if it plays in real time rather than turn based, especially if the characters have a lot of different abilities to choose from. I tend to prefer turn based combat for that reason. For real time combat it's nice to at least have a pause option so I can take my time deciding what I want to do and then get back to the action.

I think in general for an RPG not to get repetative you need a few different things to come together:

1. a good selection of different maps with built in tactical options that are different for each map (like cover, barrels of oil that can be broken/lit on fire, crevasses, etc)
2. opponents that require different tactics to defeat (different abilities, immunities, etc)
3. a reasonable selection of "loot" that drops after each fight
4. a few boss fights that feel a bit more involved with some special abilities, etc that the standard foes don't have
5. a scaling system where the player grows in power and the opponents do the same, at a roughly similar rate (you want the game to stay in some sort of difficulty sweet spot, not get too easy or too hard)

 

[DuniX]

in an RPG it can manifest differently than in a VN or strategy game, but in the end the same concepts apply, fleshed out options, be it in dialogue trees or skill trees.

The difference between a Strategy Game and something like a RPG is you have an Enemy Opposition with it's own Agency that can act in the game world.

When people think of strategy game they think of a top down perspective of a god looking down and commanding stuff, controlling empires and armies.
But that is not necessary to make a strategy game, the perspective can be anything and can be localized to a character.

It would be interesting if we could blend your regular dating sim and sandbox style perspective and mechanics with a strategy game.
While you do your own thing in your time the enemy does his own thing in the world, you can also encounter and react to each other, impeding ones schemes.

The problem I have is I don't have a good setting and context on why the Enemy Opposition is in conflict with you, maybe you are rivals with the same goals or something.

 

[Cul]

Saki has also mentioned trainers before. Could try to merge both. For ex. it could be a system where NPCs become something like 'soulstones' or 'materia'. After they die, we use them in class trees or LIs. So the corruption/virtue paths +hidden determine its 'power', like the 84 Mahasiddha(

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). With an image like that, but with NPCs hah. The drive of the player could also become protecting them. At least enough for x/84 soul. Or forever, if we grow attached. While a lot of the 'branching' is the different actions/dialog performed on them, which could be faked better with a dialogue system.

In a practical setting for example.

Spoiler

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[Saki_Sliz]

(hi Cul, back home and now my computer is back together)

What I think I've been struggling with recently is there seems to be 3 key things about games that don't want to mix well

Game, Story, Lewd

at any one time while playing a game, you can either be enjoying the game mechanics, reading the story, or enjoying lewd content. What I want to make, and what it seems other people often complain about is, we want everything, at the same time. great game mechanic, great story, great lewd content. The issue I find is that most of the time, you can only do one thing at a time, at best two. But when you try to mix them, it does not make something better, it just makes it two lesser things, half game, half lewd.

For example, you could read dialog (progressing the story), and fight at the same time, but if you make the combat mechanic, and then add dialog ontop of it, this may be a case where the fighting requires the player's full attention (time sensitive, reactive), and reading acts as a distraction, it takes away from the combat, either because it impedes on the game mechanic, or simply it prevents you from fully focusing on the game mechanic and enjoying it while also not fully able to give your attention (as the player) to the story.

I find that trainers get around this issue, and manages to do all three things at once, progress a story without a ton of words, be lewd without getting in the way of the game mechanics, and the game mechanics can impact the story so you have to think and as a result that is where the fun comes from other than the lewdness of it as well.

As you guys talk about the issues with choice in game (via direct choice or various game mechanics) or the quality of a good game (ie the rpg outline khumak suggested), I think of how even if you make a great game, either by story, or game mechanic, there will players complaining how there is not enough of one of the three things, either the game mechanics fall short, story gets in the way (wall of text intros), lewd content isn't satisfying (ie just sex scenes, or free porn with no real work involved), etc. And I think that the source of these complaints, and a lot of what you guys may be discussing may revolve around the issue that, sometimes it's not so much the execution of game mechanics or story telling, but that said game creators are focusing too much on one or two aspects (game, lewd, story) and not able to deliver a balanced experience.

I find vn's too story focused, I find most games that have actually game systems to focused on the game aspect, and then fap games focus too much on being lewd and fap material. Trying to find something that does justice on all three fronts is something I am currently exploring myself, but I have no real solution or suggestions for others. I just wanted to point out a more, big picture view, rather than the details of all these game mechanics.

 

[SerokMinmas]

It would be interesting if we could blend your regular dating sim and sandbox style perspective and mechanics with a strategy game.
While you do your own thing in your time the enemy does his own thing in the world, you can also encounter and react to each other, impeding ones schemes.

I had thought about a game once where you first person play a hacker and you just voyeuristically invade peoples computer and figure out a kinky story happening, kind of make it so the player feels like the hacker.

Would be an interesting addition to have a white-knight/hat hacker trying to stop you.

In a practical setting for example.

Interesting ideas

I REALLY liked the setting and theming.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

Saki has also mentioned trainers before. Could try to merge both. For ex. it could be a system where NPCs become something like 'soulstones' or 'materia'. After they die, we use them in class trees or LIs. So the corruption/virtue paths +hidden determine its 'power', like the 84 Mahasiddha(

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). With an image like that, but with NPCs hah. The drive of the player could also become protecting them. At least enough for x/84 soul. Or forever, if we grow attached. While a lot of the 'branching' is the different actions/dialog performed on them, which could be faked better with a dialogue system.

In a practical setting for example.

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lol, nice 69 combo

 

[SerokMinmas]

What I think I've been struggling with recently is there seems to be 3 key things about games that don't want to mix well

Game, Story, Lewd

But when you try to mix them, it does not make something better, it just makes it two lesser things, half game, half lewd.

Well, that is the whole thing right, We are mostly trying to do something that really should have a whole team behind, with people who are specialists in each area, leave the story telling to the writer, the programming to the coder, the music to the musician, but we have to be jack of all trades.

And that divides the effort, usually pouring effort into something makes it better (If that effort is well directed, that is) if you spend 10h working on code that is 10h you haven't spent on writing the story, and people can have their preferences, like someone that doesn't like coding very much but REALLY enjoys writing, you will see that his game is (usually) extremely badly coded, but the story will be good.

I think that's why games that have 2 or 3 person teams fare better, but I think this is getting off-topic.

In terms of mechanics there are styles that are proven to work and be lots of fun, like Trainers and life-sims, I guess thats why we see them so often.