Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[organord]

Because it's human nature. Once someone discovers that they can get away with something, they are much less likely to shy away from that then we'd like to think simply on the principle that it's wrong, immoral, or unethical. For all our worth, people are inherently vulnerable to taking the path of least resistance even at the cost of it being detrimental to others it impacts. Especially in this day and age, developers with less experience than a professional dev working for a company can make plenty for less work than a typical job would require. You work you're own hours, can't be fired, don't need special training or college, don't have to answer to really anyone but yourself, it can't be shut down by your government for being deemed "nonessential"...what part of that occupation isn't more desirable that a typical 9 to 5?

Not to absolve amoral content creators in any capacity, but this whole shitty situation is only sustainable because people who pledge money to porn games are:

1) Bad with managing their money, because "it's only a dollar/five dollars/ten dollars a month, so it's not a big deal if updates are slow and contain little content; I just want to show my support".
2) Thinking with their dicks, because they don't want to risk that a game that hits their buttons crashes and burns, even if it's obviously a patron-milking scam and the creator is making more than their monthly salary by doing nothing.

When you leash in a couple thousand people who think this way, congrats, you've escaped the rat race - you can live relatively normally while doing an absolutely miniscule amount of work each month to prevent pledge numbers dipping too low.

To be fair, there's also very little incentive to work harder because you know your extra effort is going to be pirated anyways (like how, even if you follow a model where public updates are just delayed but the game is available for free, your backer releases will still be shared).
So why not just do the minimum to appease the ones willing to line up and get milked? Having your stuff pirated in this case wouldn't affect your bottom line, and it minimizes the value of what the pirates make off with.

Crowdfunding is just an all-round terrible format that created and maintains the current situation, and unfortunately it isn't going to change since the platform also gets a cut, so they quietly encourage this shitty practice.
If the platform ever moves, it won't be to help patrons. It will only be if there's a big enough scandal to hit the mainstream news and damage their image.

Edit: And also, real jobs are shit too. It's understandable if some people want to escape from that hell, even if it means riding on the backs of other, more gullible (and horny) people.

Edit 2:
The situation is so messed up on so many different fronts, that any party that tries to be the morally upstanding one is only going to end up the loser.
Currently this is the patrons: they line up and pay even though they could pirate, and so they get milked for no worthwhile reward.

1) If the pirates switch to being patrons, they too just get milked for no worthwhile reward.
2) If the platform steps up to ensure patrons get their money's worth, the platform simply loses money (and probably content creators who shift to a less restrictive platform). Patron goodwill towards the platform means nothing since they're still only going to pay for content.
3) If the creator works harder to ensure patrons get their money's worth, they're just doing extra work for money they'd have gotten anyways. Only the patrons (and pirates) gain in this case: a better product on a faster release schedule (and in the case of the pirates, still free).
And of course, real jobs aren't going to get any better because it's all about employee exploitation and maximizing profits. There are enough people clamoring for jobs that they don't need to change anything, even if it drives a bunch of people towards dubious "alternative jobs" like crowdfunded porn.

 

[redcynic]

Basically, destroy capitalism and we can have gay automated space communism with cool horny games on top!

 

[tehlemon]

I could never live off the patreon model. I'd always be afraid that it was going to crash and die off.

I fully know that if I had to go back to it, I could find a job in my industry within a few days. The last time it only took two weeks because I started a bidding war, so there really wouldn't be a risk for me. But holy fuck, the stress of waiting for the bubble to burst would drive me crazy.

I think that sort of life style attracts a certain two specific types of person. One works their ass off every minute to keep it, the other doesn't.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

The sun rises. The update is delayed. All is balanced and right in the world, as God intended. amen and awomen

Tides comes in; tides goes out. You can't explain that.

 

[Carl0sDanger]

To be fair, there's also very little incentive to work harder because you know your extra effort is going to be pirated anyways (like how, even if you follow a model where public updates are just delayed but the game is available for free, your backer releases will still be shared).

Piracy is indeed an issue with indie games (I say sanctimoniously with a hard drive full of pirated smut), but this game had a different approach. The development roadmap laid out a plan to create a full story. Basically, the MC becoming powerful enough to confront Lilith and either liberating or conquering her realm. Once that main story was complete (in the sense that a player could play right through to the game's "end"), side content would be added indefinitely. And supporters would have influence over what that new content would be.

This gets around piracy to some degree. The ability to engage with the dev and offer ideas for new content, then vote on that content is a supporter reward that can't be pirated. It's a model that's been used elsewhere for fun and profit and it is the one Innoxia is supposedly using.

What Inno is actually doing is bizarre, judging by that model. Doing everything but advance the main story, while allowing input from the free Discord to influence side content that shouldn't even be being worked on yet.

 

[Dideldidum]

Hi guys,
im on the quest Vengar's Tyranny, i read in the wiki that you can get enslaved by murk. was this taken out of the game ? however i try to loose to the guys in the rat warren i just get thrown out .

 

[organord]

Piracy is indeed an issue with indie games (I say sanctimoniously with a hard drive full of pirated smut), but this game had a different approach. The development roadmap laid out a plan to create a full story. Basically, the MC becoming powerful enough to confront Lilith and either liberating or conquering her realm. Once that main story was complete (in the sense that a player could play right through to the game's "end"), side content would be added indefinitely. And supporters would have influence over what that new content would be.

This gets around piracy to some degree. The ability to engage with the dev and offer ideas for new content, then vote on that content is a supporter reward that can't be pirated. It's a model that's been used elsewhere for fun and profit and it is the one Innoxia is supposedly using.

What Inno is actually doing is bizarre, judging by that model. Doing everything but advance the main story, while allowing input from the free Discord to influence side content that shouldn't even be being worked on yet.

That's an interesting plan, more like "games as a service", though it's evident that it's being ignored.
Is there a more detailed developer roadmap than the one on the blog? Because that one barely includes details for v0.5 onwards, and skims over what the v1.0+ "continue to support the game" bit actually means.

I'm also interested if you can provide examples of successful applications of that model for porn games.
Main story complete, and no further main story continuation (eg. no introduction of a big bad that's even greater than the official last boss, or no starting a story arc that rivals the main story in scope); just endless side content that manages to sustain the dev/dev team.

 

[alex2011]

.. I thought 0.4 keeps getting pushed back because the fields content needed to be finished and put in? She's barely started?? Or is she just terrible at wording things?

Inno was supposed to have been at this point months ago in August, meaning that in August this point would have been months late like it is now. We were supposed to be playing fields content by then. This is not a surprise after the big reveal in January. I wouldn't be surprised if no actual coding, the thing required to make progress in the case of game development, is being done yet again and Inno will once again go silent and then come back months later on another rework having nothing on the fields done, revealing yet another blatant lie.

Just because McDonalds exists doesn't mean I have to like it or eat it.

it's been a bit and i'm trying to finish quests in the main story and pick up sides as I can, but i've been busy af (i run 3 ttrpg campaigns, and play in 2 others, on top of work, trying to beat nioh 2, etc etc etc). I don't remember clearly if they switched actual jobs but i'll try to pay closer attention in the new save on 3.19. I honestly hope you're right, and it's just a more vague selection (which I would personally call a design flaw tbh) function than other slave management or trainer games.

They can transform themselves and there is always Kate.

Spoiler: "Inappropriate Review"

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Watch out, you might get purged for 'off topic' comments by the mods. Let me just back up these posts into a TXT file and I'll screenshot it as evidence in case the clean up crew comes by to hide anything negative about Inno.

"Not as much content as we hoped for"? I was under the impression that we were getting just the random encounters. How in the hot diggity fuck do you deliver less than that? Okay, I know how. You do it by not working on the update for a year and then scrambling to push a premature fetal alcohol syndrome baby of an update out the door once people start running out of patience.

By claiming to work on the fields only to later reveal that the claim wasn't true...again. This is the claim, now we just have to wait a few months for the reveal.

Well, at the very least, there is no mention of extracurricular content getting in the way this time around.

Yet, just wait, it's coming. I'm calling it now, an Amber rework is the next distraction from development.

Holy shit we've somehow evolved past no progress into losing progress. We've gone negative!

Only Inno could pull that off.

Lol this game has a never ending cycle.

Makes promise ----> Silence for Weeks ----> Return with apology and excuses ----> Promises to communicate more ----> Silence ----> Announces delay ----> Minor release that falls short of promise ----> Makes promise

I never understood why developers like this are so bad at development? Not just for this game. A porn game shouldn't take a decade to finish. I'd understand if it was just some side-project they were doing for free. Fair point. It would be a hobby. But when you start pulling thousand-plus monthly donations on top of claiming to work on the game full time, it is pretty sad.

Hell, people wouldn't even be made if the game took long to develop if at least they were consistent. Fenoxo milks his donors for everything they are worth, but at least his released are consistent.

If Inno was actually working full-time, there should be no reason there couldn't be a release every two weeks. 80 hours is plenty of time for a new feature in a game like this. 90% of the effort is writing, not coding.

It has taken as long as it has because A) Inno did what is essentially the "Don't cross the streams" of game development and started an large, open world game as their first ever project alone and B) because Inno is constantly under threat of distraction by requested content and reworking existing content that could not be further from necessary at the time it was done or reworked. This is indeed a side projecy Inno is doing for free minus any commissions for the artwork for main characters, but thanks entirely to a stretch goal that Inno themself is responsible for implementing, Inno is supposed to be treating this as a full time job, a job that would have fired them had it ACTUALLY been a full time development job at some studio.

Because it's human nature. Once someone discovers that they can get away with something, they are much less likely to shy away from that then we'd like to think simply on the principle that it's wrong, immoral, or unethical. For all our worth, people are inherently vulnerable to taking the path of least resistance even at the cost of it being detrimental to others it impacts. Especially in this day and age, developers with less experience than a professional dev working for a company can make plenty for less work than a typical job would require. You work you're own hours, can't be fired, don't need special training or college, don't have to answer to really anyone but yourself, it can't be shut down by your government for being deemed "nonessential"...what part of that occupation isn't more desirable that a typical 9 to 5?

Maybe the part where your entire revenue stream comes from people who could pull their wallet out of reach at any point for any reason, including not doing enough development in a reasonable amount of time, reasonable being entirely at the mercy of the individual's tolerance. Also, you are incorrect on the inability to fire a developer like Inno, it just takes more than a traditional developer job would, it takes every person pulling their wallets away from the game instead of two simple words and some paperwork, but it can be done. In Inno's case, it would simply result in Inno having to go find a job in the traditional sense of the word and likely having to put the game on hold or abandon it entirely, at which point other people would likely step in to try and get done what Inno did not.

Piracy is indeed an issue with indie games (I say sanctimoniously with a hard drive full of pirated smut), but this game had a different approach. The development roadmap laid out a plan to create a full story. Basically, the MC becoming powerful enough to confront Lilith and either liberating or conquering her realm. Once that main story was complete (in the sense that a player could play right through to the game's "end"), side content would be added indefinitely. And supporters would have influence over what that new content would be.

This gets around piracy to some degree. The ability to engage with the dev and offer ideas for new content, then vote on that content is a supporter reward that can't be pirated. It's a model that's been used elsewhere for fun and profit and it is the one Innoxia is supposedly using.

What Inno is actually doing is bizarre, judging by that model. Doing everything but advance the main story, while allowing input from the free Discord to influence side content that shouldn't even be being worked on yet.

Indeed it is, if anything, the way Inno is going about this should be increasing piracy as if the 'pay to have influence' model wasn't chosen and instead the entire game was paywalled. I do love this model when it is actually being used, but Inno isn't using it, at least not anymore. They seem to have skipped over the part where we get to the end of the main story and THEN we add side content indefinitely.

Spoiler: shortened by request

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That's an interesting plan, more like "games as a service", though it's evident that it's being ignored.
Is there a more detailed developer roadmap than the one on the blog? Because that one barely includes details for v0.5 onwards, and skims over what the v1.0+ "continue to support the game" bit actually means.

I'm also interested if you can provide examples of successful applications of that model for porn games.
Main story complete, and no further main story continuation (eg. no introduction of a big bad that's even greater than the official last boss, or no starting a story arc that rivals the main story in scope); just endless side content that manages to sustain the dev/dev team.

No, the blog is basically it for roadmaps. Continue to support the game basically means, once the main quest is over, continue to hunt any lingering bugs and issues and provide side content, the stuff Inno has been focusing on for a while now except not instead of the main quest they should be working on. Basically anything not a part of the main story will continue getting additions after main story completion. New races, new side quests, that sort of thing.

 

[SordidDreams]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[anon707]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

you really REALLY seem to love using Skyrim, this one singular game, made to appeal to a MASS market, as your only example of a gold standard huh?

 

[KoropeiniKi]

you know, she could have just come out and just blurt it out that she doesn't want to work on the game anymore, and people would be less mad about it
but here she is, keeps telling promises that will never be fulfilled, and i fucking Hate people like that. actually, i don't think Hate is enough to describe it.

 

[somethingblue]

you know, she could have just come out and just blurt it out that she doesn't want to work on the game anymore, and people would be less mad about it
but here she is, keeps telling promises that will never be fulfilled, and i fucking Hate people like that. actually, i don't think Hate is enough to describe it.

And miss out on the payments from all the gullible people that still expect something out of this project?
She turned off comments on her blog because it became a pissing contest between her white knights and people tired of the constant excuses. Don't expect decent ethical standards from that dev.

 

[Scapdra1]

I'm calling it now, the next update will be 3.2x. 4.0 is not going to happen any time soon, if at all

 

[SordidDreams]

you really REALLY seem to love using Skyrim, this one singular game, made to appeal to a MASS market, as your only example of a gold standard huh?

What part of "it's the one everyone is familiar with, and I want to be understood when I try to communicate an idea using an example" did you find difficult to understand last time? Also, it may have escaped your notice, but the last few times Skyrim was mentioned, I used it as an example of poor design not to be emulated.

 

[tehlemon]

Yet, just wait, it's coming. I'm calling it now, an Amber rework is the next distraction from development.

My money is still on Rose getting a rework next. She's been promising Rose/Lilaya group content forever.

 

[Scapdra1]

My money is still on Rose getting a rework next. She's been promising Rose/Lilaya group content forever.

Considering her track record with promises, that just makes the Amber rework 10x more likely to happen than the Rose rework.

 

[alex2011]

Spoiler: shortened by request

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

you really REALLY seem to love using Skyrim, this one singular game, made to appeal to a MASS market, as your only example of a gold standard huh?

Not to mention they are trying to argue against open world concepts and mechanics with examples from an open world game with open world mechanics, namely Skyrim.

you know, she could have just come out and just blurt it out that she doesn't want to work on the game anymore, and people would be less mad about it
but here she is, keeps telling promises that will never be fulfilled, and i fucking Hate people like that. actually, i don't think Hate is enough to describe it.

Couldn't have said it better. However, the problem with just blurting it out would be the instant loss of Inno's income. Most subscribers I've talked to, not necessarily subscribing to Inno, don't want to support a developer with a history of abandoned games, especially if that history doesn't also include finished ones. They would leave and the game would die, leaving Inno to have to go get a normal job.

I'm calling it now, the next update will be 3.2x. 4.0 is not going to happen any time soon, if at all

I could see it.

My money is still on Rose getting a rework next. She's been promising Rose/Lilaya group content forever.

True, I could see that as well. Let me guess, now we get to see her get babied by Lilaya as she interrogates us when she is perfectly capable of standing on her own. I haven't played it and I am STILL royally pissed at how the Nyan one turned out for Nyan related reasons, and this is in defense of my new least favorite character in the game. It's like, seriously, this is a grown woman we're talking about, let her at least try to handle herself first before the mother steps in and babies her, then throws herself into an incestuous threesome with her own daughter who, let me remind you, IS NOT into incest at any point before this occurs.

Let me guess, Rose is going to get some ridiculous content that automatically applies a fetish that makes zero sense much like the above situation.

Considering her track record with promises, that just makes the Amber rework 10x more likely to happen than the Rose rework.

Yes, now we're definitely getting an Amber rework. Let me guess, she's hard on the outside to conceal a deep fear of rejection on the inside, right? Deep down she's just as scared as a little girl in the dark. Scared of being alone, scared of being rejected, scared of being tossed out with the trash. She HAS to feel powerful to keep that fear sealed away, to hide her true feelings.

Please don't, the idea above was actually even more horrifying once I typed it.

 

[throbzombie]

I'm calling it now, the next update will be 3.2x. 4.0 is not going to happen any time soon, if at all

Inno made it abundantly clear that the version number is no indicator of progress when the update after 3.9.9 was 3.10. It fucking regressed between updates, apparently.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

Inno made it abundantly clear that the version number is no indicator of progress when the update after 3.9.9 was 3.10. It fucking regressed between updates, apparently.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[throbzombie]

That makes absolutely no sense.

You see, in decimals, 3.10 comes before 3.9, so 3.10 should be the earlier version.