Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[Storm4n]

so did elven girls get included already??

 

[Regula]

so did elven girls get included already??

I haven't found any so far so...probably not.

 

[anubis1970]

so did elven girls get included already??

No Elves yet. Just demons, imps, slimes, and more furries than you can shake a stick at.

 

[Ferghus]

No Elves yet. Just demons, imps, slimes, and more furries than you can shake a stick at.

Eh, the furry count is a little inflated. How many of those species are just fancy cat-morphs?

 

[UnDeaD_CyBorG]

How many of those species are just fancy cat-morphs?

More than you can shake a stick at.

 

[NextTimeMaybe]

Not really a fan of furries, but still the game is awesome! Well written, with good-ish mechanics and quite immersive. Does anyone know of similar games (with similar character customization and rpg) just without so much furry content?

 

[UnDeaD_CyBorG]

You are free to tone the furry content down to almost nothing - this game allows this kind of customization.
As for similar games without furries, can't think of any. This is really pretty good.

 

[caju]

Not really a fan of furries, but still the game is awesome! Well written, with good-ish mechanics and quite immersive. Does anyone know of similar games (with similar character customization and rpg) just without so much furry content?

You can go from 1% furry to 100% furry.
Or you can just turn it off altogether.
What more could you ask for?

 

[NextTimeMaybe]

You can go from 1% furry to 100% furry.
Or you can just turn it off altogether.
What more could you ask for?

Didn't see that at first, thank you! ^^

 

[Fuzzcat]

If I recall correctly, Innoxia said "no fantasy races".
This is, goblins, orcs and elves.

Most likely, at some point, there's going to be physical TFs to make your own, but nothing official.

As for Furries, yes it can be managed to reduce content, at least you won't encounter furry NPCs.

Not to confuse furries with myth characters: harpies aren't furries, for example.
I think there's probably going to be centaurs and minotaurs (not entirely sure now, but I think Inno was ok with them), and most likely different merfolk for the sea zone. Satyr probably, since there's a forest planned, and probably more furry-ish versions of them with sheep/goat people in the Foloi Fields (I remember asking for a Farm to buy "or something like that" and Inno just went " " and acted all misterious)
Maybe Werewolves too.

Dragonkin is a completely different thing, imho. Not only they don't specifically have fur to be furries, but they're a sort of myth-fantasy race themselves in games. People keep asking for dragon TFs, and Inno didn't seem opposed to it.

 

[Ferghus]

If I recall correctly, Innoxia said "no fantasy races".
This is, goblins, orcs and elves.

Most likely, at some point, there's going to be physical TFs to make your own, but nothing official.

As for Furries, yes it can be managed to reduce content, at least you won't encounter furry NPCs.

Not to confuse furries with myth characters: harpies aren't furries, for example.
I think there's probably going to be centaurs and minotaurs (not entirely sure now, but I think Inno was ok with them), and most likely different merfolk for the sea zone. Satyr probably, since there's a forest planned, and probably more furry-ish versions of them with sheep/goat people in the Foloi Fields (I remember asking for a Farm to buy "or something like that" and Inno just went " " and acted all misterious)
Maybe Werewolves too.

Dragonkin is a completely different thing, imho. Not only they don't specifically have fur to be furries, but they're a sort of myth-fantasy race themselves in games. People keep asking for dragon TFs, and Inno didn't seem opposed to it.

Well, we already have cow morphs. Would the minotaur just be a subspecies of them? Also, for were-creatures, I'm not sure how it could be distinguished from greater and lesser furries. I'm not really understanding the line between fantasy and mythology though. Like trolls, goblins, fairies, and even dwarves pop up in many different cultures, and if we're strictly sticking to Greek mythos, I'd even argue that nymphs are pretty much fantasy elves. Then you have full blown monsters like dragons, gorgons, hydras, and even automatons (such as Talos). Plus, I'm pretty sure that slimes are not in the realm of mythos.

 

[Fuzzcat]

Well, we already have cow morphs. Would the minotaur just be a subspecies of them? Also, for were-creatures, I'm not sure how it could be distinguished from greater and lesser furries. I'm not really understanding the line between fantasy and mythology though. Like trolls, goblins, fairies, and even dwarves pop up in many different cultures, and if we're strictly sticking to Greek mythos, I'd even argue that nymphs are pretty much fantasy elves. Then you have full blown monsters like dragons, gorgons, hydras, and even automatons (such as Talos). Plus, I'm pretty sure that slimes are not in the realm of mythos.

I never said the lines were clear!
Innoxia considered elves, orcs, goblins and some others I don't remember, to be fantasy (I think Dwarves too), and she wasn't going to add them. That was quite some time ago, maybe she changed her mind.

The Minotaur is kind of tricky.
Strictly from a mythos point of view, there's only one (and technically couldn't be used since it was slayed).
Usually, it's a lone type of creature, usually guarding -of course!- mazes, or specific places. It's a sort of mishap (actually more like a curse), not really a race (and it's usually male. This involves a lot of symbolisms about virility, primal instincts -like mating- and violence). There's no real record about how would it reprodruce, but offspring in the few mentioned times (here and there, scarcely) is always another Minotaur (male).

Werewolves are similar in thataspect. They're not really a race, but rather a...consecuence. It's a curse that affects anyone, whose simpthoms are always the same. Heck, you could be a furry cat-kin or even the friggin Minotaur and still turn into a lupine form (which would be hilarious!).

I would argue about elves-nymphs, yeah.
Nymphs are female spirits. Literally spirits.
It was Tolkien who made the "Elves" known as they are in actual fantasy. Elves in mythology are much like Dobby from Harry Potter: small, mischievous, magical little shits. They're related to Redcaps (a mix of dwarf and goblin) and goblins for example. Just think on Santa Claus elves, to get an idea
Note: the whole goblinoid family (including elves, fairies, hobgoblins, and all the kind of fey-folk aren't from many cultures. They're from Celtic heritage. The closest similarities I've seen is on Ugrofinesian mythology, which seems related to Germanic Mythos)

I don't think Innoxia is going Greek-only mythic, considering there are Kitsunes the 9 tailed magical fox-morphs. It's a total mistake consider them as furries, they're NOT.
But then again, what's really a Furry? Just a "let's take these features, and put them into a human". Might as well there be Orc-furries too, for example (something I'm am implementing in my 'verse ), since it's something along the lines of "mixed genes" thing.

Technically speaking, you could do a "furry" Hydra-human, but not a furry Gorgon, or a furry Minotaur, since both already have mixed features in their base form. Maybe that's the line to start from, when considering "furryness", to be a "pure beast type" (hum, gotta write down that for me, might make a good plot line).

Damn, again a wall-text! Sorry!

 

[W65]

It's pretty standard on the webs to conflate all the different meanings of "furries." It's a pretty loaded word. It can mean everything from "the people who like animal people" to "scary boogieman coming to ruin your porn game/website" to "hey this fox is literally a fox." Like everything else in the context of this game, it probably means here "whatever the developer wants it to mean." Heck, plenty of folks out there would consider a dragon that walks on two feet and isn't twenty feet tall a furry.

I'm guessing "fantasy" races would be Tolkien or stuff that looks too much like it'd show up in your first D&D random encounter. Kobolds and gnolls are probably out, and no mindflayers (although it'd be a pretty fucked up campaign if your level 1 fighter is fighting a mindflayer). I don't remember if D&D came up with jackalweres or not, but they're probably also out.

Ultimately it's up to whatever the dev wants to include.

 

[Ferghus]

I never said the lines were clear!
Innoxia considered elves, orcs, goblins and some others I don't remember, to be fantasy (I think Dwarves too), and she wasn't going to add them. That was quite some time ago, maybe she changed her mind.

The Minotaur is kind of tricky.
Strictly from a mythos point of view, there's only one (and technically couldn't be used since it was slayed).
Usually, it's a lone type of creature, usually guarding -of course!- mazes, or specific places. It's a sort of mishap (actually more like a curse), not really a race (and it's usually male. This involves a lot of symbolisms about virility, primal instincts -like mating- and violence). There's no real record about how would it reprodruce, but offspring in the few mentioned times (here and there, scarcely) is always another Minotaur (male).

Werewolves are similar in thataspect. They're not really a race, but rather a...consecuence. It's a curse that affects anyone, whose simpthoms are always the same. Heck, you could be a furry cat-kin or even the friggin Minotaur and still turn into a lupine form (which would be hilarious!).

I would argue about elves-nymphs, yeah.
Nymphs are female spirits. Literally spirits.
It was Tolkien who made the "Elves" known as they are in actual fantasy. Elves in mythology are much like Dobby from Harry Potter: small, mischievous, magical little shits. They're related to Redcaps (a mix of dwarf and goblin) and goblins for example. Just think on Santa Claus elves, to get an idea
Note: the whole goblinoid family (including elves, fairies, hobgoblins, and all the kind of fey-folk aren't from many cultures. They're from Celtic heritage. The closest similarities I've seen is on Ugrofinesian mythology, which seems related to Germanic Mythos)

I don't think Innoxia is going Greek-only mythic, considering there are Kitsunes the 9 tailed magical fox-morphs. It's a total mistake consider them as furries, they're NOT.
But then again, what's really a Furry? Just a "let's take these features, and put them into a human". Might as well there be Orc-furries too, for example (something I'm am implementing in my 'verse ), since it's something along the lines of "mixed genes" thing.

Technically speaking, you could do a "furry" Hydra-human, but not a furry Gorgon, or a furry Minotaur, since both already have mixed features in their base form. Maybe that's the line to start from, when considering "furryness", to be a "pure beast type" (hum, gotta write down that for me, might make a good plot line).

Damn, again a wall-text! Sorry!

The kitsune is a good counterpoint. I had forgotten about them. I guess it might be doable to have a minotaur subtype to cow-morphs, but I would still argue that there's not much mythos to work with compared to the kitsunes.

I'm not a fan of werewolf idea at all. It seems silly since animal-people hybrids and transformations are already part of the universe's lore.

Eh, considering that male harpies exist and the harpy race as a whole strives to look pretty, I'd say that Innoxia isn't one for strictly following lore. If nymphs were in the game, they'd likely have males and be non-spirits.

I'm fairly certain that fairies and the like have been recorded in the lore and mythos of many more regions, though I'm more familiar with the Scandinavian and Germanic examples than the rest. I brought them up to say that fantasy overlaps with a lot of real life mythos. Although they're not exactly sexy or attractive in their actual mythos, once again, Innoxia doesn't seem too big on adhering to real life lore. If they did exist, they sure as hell wouldn't look like Dobby.

I think for it to count as furry, the character has to be an anthropomorphic form of an animal or a creature resembling one. Basically, it has to look like an animal but walks, talks, and acts like a person. In that regard, I do think that Hydra can get the furry treatment, but Minotaur and the Gorgon sisters (depending on the medium) cannot, since they're basically humans with non-human bits attached. If they don't resemble any animal, like orcs, elves, and slimes, then they're not furries.

 

[Fuzzcat]

It's pretty standard on the webs to conflate all the different meanings of "furries." It's a pretty loaded word. It can mean everything from "the people who like animal people" to "scary boogieman coming to ruin your porn game/website" to "hey this fox is literally a fox." Like everything else in the context of this game, it probably means here "whatever the developer wants it to mean." Heck, plenty of folks out there would consider a dragon that walks on two feet and isn't twenty feet tall a furry.

I'm guessing "fantasy" races would be Tolkien or stuff that looks too much like it'd show up in your first D&D random encounter. Kobolds and gnolls are probably out, and no mindflayers (although it'd be a pretty fucked up campaign if your level 1 fighter is fighting a mindflayer). I don't remember if D&D came up with jackalweres or not, but they're probably also out.

Ultimately it's up to whatever the dev wants to include.

Pretty much agreed on everything *nods*

Not sure about Kobolds tho, since they're celtic and germanic lore (the more common description is like they apear in World of Warcraft, with the whole candles-thing. Related to Fey, much like any goblinoid)
Not sure about Minflayers... I think they're also from another myth-lore, but not really sure. In any case, if I recall correctly they're based off from Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos.

And D&D have were-kin for almost anything.
The CG were-bears (again, based off Tolkien's Beorn), the CG were-tigers (and were-panthers), NN were-sharks, and even a sort of lesser race of werewolf-elf (they're like wild elves, that can change into wolf shape, not the usual hybrid), and many more.

The kitsune is a good counterpoint. I had forgotten about them. I guess it might be doable to have a minotaur subtype to cow-morphs, but I would still argue that there's not much mythos to work with compared to the kitsunes.

Well, Kitsunes are Kamis, and like most of them, thay can shapeshift into anything.
I'm a bit rusted on Japanese Myth, but they're not a race, they're a type of troubled spirit (all Kamis are spirits), but they are physical (some legends have characters marrying them, and living happily). Mischievous, but not necessarily evil.

Onis share the same shapechanging abilities, but they're demons, though not in the western sense. Most are troubled souls twisted by/because sins. Unlike most mythos, they can be redeemed with good deeds (to them), and even get turned good (it wasn't unusual to find statues of happy onis on the roads, with sacred inscriptions).

And then you have the Kami "gods", which are sometimes depicted as a single specific character, but others as a "race", like Tengu (a creature-god of winds and storms).

Anyways, Kitsunes are not furries exactly.
They're more like the Rakshashas from Hindu myths (an antropomorph tiger-man, with inverted hands, incredible magical powers, and evil as fuck) or the Chupacabra.

I'm not a fan of werewolf idea at all. It seems silly since animal-people hybrids and transformations are already part of the universe's lore.

It's not the same at all!
The "weresomething" it's... an affliction. It could be removed or not.
The best example (or system to handle) is the one used in D&D (Dungeon & Dragons), in which you basically take a creature, and add the "were" sub-type. Each "were" has specific bonuses.

So, for example, if Ralph (the horse trader guy) gets bitten by a Werewolf, he's a Horse-boy that can change into a lupine form, regardless of original shape (as long it's humanoid). It does matter in terms of stats and general shape: if the character is small and weak, the WW will be smaller and weak than others (but still powerful because the were-affliction adds bonuses). If the humanoid part is missing a limb, the WW would be missing it too (but he'll regenerate new wounds).
Think on it as a special item you're carrying, that lets you change into a specific set of skills/stats.
The same rules/system applies for Vampires, and more regular undeads, for example.

I think for it to count as furry, the character has to be an anthropomorphic form of an animal or a creature resembling one. Basically, it has to look like an animal but walks, talks, and acts like a person. In that regard, I do think that Hydra can get the furry treatment, but Minotaur and the Gorgon sisters (depending on the medium) cannot, since they're basically humans with non-human bits attached. If they don't resemble any animal, like orcs, elves, and slimes, then they're not furries.

Pretty much yeah.
(I was actually thinking exactly on the cow-sister Gorgon!)
The non-bits attached is relative, since furries (if I understand well the fetish-myth) can be lesser, like Nyan who doesn't has a full cat body.
Basically, it's a human-ish shape and behaviour, with a "pure" beast features added, with "pure" meaning a bull not a Minotaur, or a snake not a Lamia/ Gorgon.
Also, they should be able to reproduce, and have offpring with shared (minimal at least) features, so they can be considered a race, and not a particular "event".
Werewolves for example, have human sons, not hybrids.

There's a chinese legend about a golden dog, that was magically changed into human. But the process fails, and he ends up being a full human with a dog's head. He maries a princess, and their sons, while being considered blessed and loved, were humans, but some had dogs tails. That could be considered a Furry (tho inversed in the beginning lol)

 

[Ferghus]

Pretty much agreed on everything *nods*

Not sure about Kobolds tho, since they're celtic and germanic lore (the more common description is like they apear in World of Warcraft, with the whole candles-thing. Related to Fey, much like any goblinoid)
Not sure about Minflayers... I think they're also from another myth-lore, but not really sure. In any case, if I recall correctly they're based off from Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos.

And D&D have were-kin for almost anything.
The CG were-bears (again, based off Tolkien's Beorn), the CG were-tigers (and were-panthers), NN were-sharks, and even a sort of lesser race of werewolf-elf (they're like wild elves, that can change into wolf shape, not the usual hybrid), and many more.



Well, Kitsunes are Kamis, and like most of them, thay can shapeshift into anything.
I'm a bit rusted on Japanese Myth, but they're not a race, they're a type of troubled spirit (all Kamis are spirits), but they are physical (some legends have characters marrying them, and living happily). Mischievous, but not necessarily evil.

Onis share the same shapechanging abilities, but they're demons, though not in the western sense. Most are troubled souls twisted by/because sins. Unlike most mythos, they can be redeemed with good deeds (to them), and even get turned good (it wasn't unusual to find statues of happy onis on the roads, with sacred inscriptions).

And then you have the Kami "gods", which are sometimes depicted as a single specific character, but others as a "race", like Tengu (a creature-god of winds and storms).

Anyways, Kitsunes are not furries exactly.
They're more like the Rakshashas from Hindu myths (an antropomorph tiger-man, with inverted hands, incredible magical powers, and evil as fuck) or the Chupacabra.



It's not the same at all!
The "weresomething" it's... an affliction. It could be removed or not.
The best example (or system to handle) is the one used in D&D (Dungeon & Dragons), in which you basically take a creature, and add the "were" sub-type. Each "were" has specific bonuses.

So, for example, if Ralph (the horse trader guy) gets bitten by a Werewolf, he's a Horse-boy that can change into a lupine form, regardless of original shape (as long it's humanoid). It does matter in terms of stats and general shape: if the character is small and weak, the WW will be smaller and weak than others (but still powerful because the were-affliction adds bonuses). If the humanoid part is missing a limb, the WW would be missing it too (but he'll regenerate new wounds).
Think on it as a special item you're carrying, that lets you change into a specific set of skills/stats.
The same rules/system applies for Vampires, and more regular undeads, for example.



Pretty much yeah.
(I was actually thinking exactly on the cow-sister Gorgon!)
The non-bits attached is relative, since furries (if I understand well the fetish-myth) can be lesser, like Nyan who doesn't has a full cat body.
Basically, it's a human-ish shape and behaviour, with a "pure" beast features added, with "pure" meaning a bull not a Minotaur, or a snake not a Lamia/ Gorgon.
Also, they should be able to reproduce, and have offpring with shared (minimal at least) features, so they can be considered a race, and not a particular "event".
Werewolves for example, have human sons, not hybrids.

There's a chinese legend about a golden dog, that was magically changed into human. But the process fails, and he ends up being a full human with a dog's head. He maries a princess, and their sons, while being considered blessed and loved, were humans, but some had dogs tails. That could be considered a Furry (tho inversed in the beginning lol)

I had brought up the kitsunes to highlight how little we know of the Minotaur. I'm not sure if it had any supernatural attributes other than its physical appearance. It wasn't like people regularly challenged the Minotaur and it proved itself particularly clever or fearsome. If anything it seemed like a good amount of effort was made to keep it alive and healthy and far from danger. People were sent in to die to it, not to fight it. They weren't allowed weapons. Did it have a bull's strength too or was it just a man with a cow's head and tail? I don't know.

I know werewolves aren't the same as furries. I'm just saying that it's not that appealing to me in a game where people probably wouldn't bat an eye at such a "curse." It's not even a curse, from how you're describing it. You already start the game off as a persecuted race with a superpower. You really don't need more angst and superpowers on top of that.

P.S. For the last point, I wouldn't consider the human-dog a furry. Like if you covered it's head, you wouldn't know it's a dog. I wouldn't classify Nyan as a furry either. She retains some human features, namely her face and breast.

 

[Bogan53]

I seem to have become somewhat addicted to this awesome game but have hit a couple of roadblocks.
Hopefully someone can help me.
Firstly, I have found the location of the Slime Queen but can't seem to progress.
Secondly, I've beaten the terrible twins but when I go upstairs I have no petrol left in the tank to take on the scary dude that awaits.
I have more but this will do for starters.
Appreciate any advice. Thanks

 

[Ferghus]

I seem to have become somewhat addicted to this awesome game but have hit a couple of roadblocks.
Hopefully someone can help me.
Firstly, I have found the location of the Slime Queen but can't seem to progress.
Secondly, I've beaten the terrible twins but when I go upstairs I have no petrol left in the tank to take on the scary dude that awaits.
I have more but this will do for starters.
Appreciate any advice. Thanks

I don't get it, are problems 1 and 2 not one and the same? If you don't have enough energy to win, simply exit and come back later. If I am understanding the text correctly, you can't run from a fight in the tower, but nothing's stopping you from returning to the bat cavern. Whether you can make it back to the surface is completely on you. On the next floor, you can lower the guard's energy before the fight even begins by picking the dialogue options that would make him tire himself out. If you're having trouble still, I'd recommend enchanting your gear to either increase damage or resistance to damage.

 

[Bogan53]

I don't get it, are problems 1 and 2 not one and the same? If you don't have enough energy to win, simply exit and come back later. If I am understanding the text correctly, you can't run from a fight in the tower, but nothing's stopping you from returning to the bat cavern. Whether you can make it back to the surface is completely on you. On the next floor, you can lower the guard's energy before the fight even begins by picking the dialogue options that would make him tire himself out. If you're having trouble still, I'd recommend enchanting your gear to either increase damage or resistance to damage.

You're correct re the same problem. Confused myself. I'll have a shot at what you suggest and see how things go. Thanks

 

[kulbak]

Dragonkin is a must have, furry or not.