Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.11.3 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[DerWahrePeter]

Yeah, Inno may not have any legal responsibility to her patrons, but she has a moral responsibility to them. They give her their money with the expectation that they will get something in return, even if there's no formal agreement involves, so Inno ought to do the thing she said she was doing to get their money.

The patrons are deluding themselves then. And they ought to stop. Inno wants to keep developing LT, and she wants to keep her promises, but she doesn't have to. If you are pledging to her for anything other than her continued development, then you are deluding yourself. If you are unhappy with the progress she is making, stop your pledge. If you want to reward her for an update you liked, but aren't happy with the overall speed of development, pledge once. It's really not that hard.

 

[DerWahrePeter]

I kinda jumped into this whole drama by accident lol.

So is the dev in the middle of an Yandere Dev situation?

Not really, Inno is just slower than even she expected, and some people deem it proper to call her incompetent or a fraud for that, when it's the same spiel with any other game that got ever deloped with patreon money.

 

[throbzombie]

The patrons are deluding themselves then. And they ought to stop. Inno wants to keep developing LT, and she wants to keep her promises, but she doesn't have to. If you are pledging to her for anything other than her continued development, then you are deluding yourself. If you are unhappy with the progress she is making, stop your pledge. If you want to reward her for an update you liked, but aren't happy with the overall speed of development, pledge once. It's really not that hard.

I agree about Inno's patrons; anyone who supports Inno at this point is a sucker, but I think you're giving her too much credit here. Unless she is an ingnoramus, she should have learned her limits months ago and stopped making unrealistic promises. She hasn't done that, so we can only assume that a) she's dumb as bricks and doesn't learn or b) she's opportunistically taking advantage of the limitless goodwill of her gullible fans, or c) she has a fragile ego and can't handle criticism, so she only pays attention to her simps, giving her the false impression that, save for a few trolls trying to stir the pot, everybody's really happy with how the project is going, which may be true, for all I know.

Or maybe it's a combination of one or more of these scenarios. Or maybe I'm wrong and retarded and you shouldn't pay attention to me, anyway. I dunno.

 

[redcynic]

I mean, she's competence-challenged at the very least, the game limps along on jank code and legitimately cannot support more than a certain number of NPCs (that number being less than the 'planned' number of static NPCs, not even counting the supposed ability to have newly generated ones from buying slaves or having kids)

The game works but it doesn't work very well and it is approaching the point of not being able to work at all past a certain point.

Fraud? No. Incompetent? We'll see.

 

[DerWahrePeter]

Unless she is an ingnoramus, she should have learned her limits months ago and stopped making unrealistic promises.

She stopped making promises. Then people got pissy that there were no promises. So she started making promises again, with the note that she will try to meet the deadlines, but probably won't.

 

[throbzombie]

I mean, she's competence-challenged at the very least, the game limps along on jank code and legitimately cannot support more than a certain number of NPCs (that number being less than the 'planned' number of static NPCs, not even counting the supposed ability to have newly generated ones from buying slaves or having kids)

The game works but it doesn't work very well and it is approaching the point of not being able to work at all past a certain point.

Fraud? No. Incompetent? We'll see.

Yeah, as poorly as it runs right now, I have to wonder whether LT even can be completed, considering how much there is to do. Perhaps Inno wrote herself into a corner, technically speaking, and now she's afraid of hitting a wall when the code reaches but is also wary of having to scrap the project and start over, for obvious reasons. I'm sure glad I'm not her if that's the case.

She stopped making promises. Then people got pissy that there were no promises. So she started making promises again, with the note that she will try to meet the deadlines, but probably won't.

I said "unrealistic promises". Admittedly, I came into this drama pretty late, so there's a lot I might be missing, but if Inno just made promises that she knew she could keep, then I think that a lot of the ill will would dry up. But building on Redcynic's comment, it would be best for everybody if she'd just come clean about what's been going on, and honestly and transparently explain the difficulties that she has been experiencing. It'd be a painful bandage to rip off, but it's better than the project drowning in a sea of venom and empty promises. The way things are going, nobody's coming out of this project smelling like a rose.

 

[Fuzzcat]

That's literally an example of censorship...

The game is literally a product Inno is offering and hoping you'll give her money to develop. That's literally how this works. A person trades their time and labor for money. This is literally her job, and we're literally her customers. Well, not all of us anymore.

She doesn't owe you anything, unless, you know, she wants to earn a living. Then she owes her customers in the exact same way any business does.

I've haven't watched anyone so aggressively sell themselves short in quiet a while.

I am no zealot, tell the Discord there is no authoritarianism, conspiracy, or censorship since they didn't get the memo, what you say will not change my mind, I'm angry because Inno lied, and the mods here already purged the thread for this topic once, so I suggest it gets dropped, at least here. If you want to continue this in a PM, fine, I'm game, but not in the game thread due to the lurking danger of mods.

Ah, whatever.
The type of people that keeps arguing pointlessly just to convince themselves they're right without doubt.

So:
Yeah, you're right, you win, whatever.

Inno ALLOWS you to support the project out of YOUR OWN VOLITION, if you like the project. At no point was there any contract signed. You are no customer. You are a private person, giving another private person money, nothing more.

Pretty much.

She is offering something, not asking.
It is kinda funny how people tends to demand and think they're "entitled to", when in reality they're not only contributing anything, but worse, they're not even "tipping the jar" (which is how LT works)

Anyways, done with drama queens *shrug*

 

[Fuzzcat]

Genuine question for those that modded LT:

is there a file with the description of each location's tiles?
I want to try something (graphical), but taking note of each tile's decsription while walking around is WAY too time-consuming (more considering there are several locations)

 

[Chingonerio]

is there a file with the description of each location's tiles?

You mean the little blurbs describing the area whenever you enter a tile? Those are contained in the *.java files inside the dialogue directory

You must be registered to see the links

(on the public github). So, for example, ./src/com/lilithsthrone/game/dialogue/places/dominion/CityPlaces.java contains the descriptions for every tile that you can spawn in the city of Dominion's overworld map (i.e.- outside of houses, buildings, the mall, the Enforcers' HQ, etc.).

 

[Fuzzcat]

You mean the little blurbs describing the area whenever you enter a tile? Those are contained in the *.java files inside the dialogue directory

You must be registered to see the links

(on the public github). So, for example, ./src/com/lilithsthrone/game/dialogue/places/dominion/CityPlaces.java contains the descriptions for every tile that you can spawn in the city of Dominion's overworld map (i.e.- outside of houses, buildings, the mall, the Enforcers' HQ, etc.).

Perfect, exactly what I was asking for, many thanks!

 

[NajaNaga]

Are there any major, progress-stopping bugs with re-enabling the followers, currently? So far I've only found myself getting locked after defeating a bunch of imps (it might have been an imp fortress fight) unless I sent my follower home before the fight began.

 

[redcynic]

Hilariously, because there's been no content DONE since they scrapped followers, you're not missing anything if you bring them along. So no, nothing progress-stopping at all.

(I do actually support her dropping that, followers exponentially complicate sex scenes)

 

[throbzombie]

Are there any major, progress-stopping bugs with re-enabling the followers, currently? So far I've only found myself getting locked after defeating a bunch of imps (it might have been an imp fortress fight) unless I sent my follower home before the fight began.

I haven't encountered any major bugs, myself, but there are bound to be hiccups here and there.

 

[anon707]

Hilariously, because there's been no content DONE since they scrapped followers, you're not missing anything if you bring them along. So no, nothing progress-stopping at all.

(I do actually support her dropping that, followers exponentially complicate sex scenes)

I dont really see why everyone has to put up with a feature being dropped just because you didnt like it.

 

[redcynic]

I dont really see why everyone has to put up with a feature being dropped just because you didnt like it.

I don't really see the evidence that I was the reason it was dropped? i expressed an opinion on the subject, one that inno happened to use as her reason to drop the support.

 

[Carl0sDanger]

Support for followers was dropped to make the creation of new content easier. It can still be enabled in the options.

Due to followers no longer being supported, having the companion feature enabled will likely cause problems when playing through content created after support was discontinued.

Given that Inno has produced next to no new content since ceasing support, the number of instances where it causes problems is pretty low. And Elementals are better companions anyway.

 

[alex2011]

I kinda jumped into this whole drama by accident lol.

So is the dev in the middle of an Yandere Dev situation?

From aggressively selling yourself short to just like, aggressively wrong. But whatever. You don't understand how free to play works as a business model. And I don't care enough to actually explain it to you. No one in life owes you anything, including me. You can't see it, but I actually rolled my eyes there.



Sorta, but a little different. Here's the general recap:

Both games are... technically challenged, lets say. There's some serious questions whether this game is technically capable of actually continuing much longer. You can see an example of this with the other person showing off their crash. 250 NPCs and the game dies. We're supposed to be getting like 10 more fully fleshed out areas full of NPCs. That's not going to be possible.

There are a lot of basic optimizations that could be used, but I'm not personally confident. The dev started the project as an amateur and it kind of shows. But she also refuses any help outside of from a couple specific people, who really aren't going to provide the help needed either.

The other half of the drama is the delays. Like, its kind of gotten to the point where it's a running gag. So much so that she had to disable all comments on the official blog, and the discord chases out anyone who says anything. Which is why this thread is now so active. She didn't want another blog post with 1000 comments making fun of how slow the game development is, I guess lol

It's been like two years since we've got a major game update that expands the actual story or play area of the game. It's been six or seven months of the dev outright telling us she's working on the next area, only to delay until the next patch. And in the last two updates we found out that no content has been worked on for those areas.

There's not really drama about the dev being a creepy asshole or anything like that. The worst I can say about her is that she obvious lied quite a bit about what she was working on. But at least, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any weird sexual drama involving minors or anything. Outside of one or two people this is more 'laughing at the situation' drama and not 'we might want to call the police' drama lol



You can also just explore until you find them, but that's a pain. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have an arcane storm going. If a storm is going you can at least one shot the NPCs with tease and then remove them, so you can spam through explorations without having to spawn in many tiles worth of NPCs.

There's also another technical issue with the game, that crash that people have reported? It is because the game can only handle so many individual NPCs at once. That's going to be a real problem and all this side content, except the latest one, adds more to the mix, reducing the number of NPCs we can randomly generate safely.

Sooner or later, closer to sooner, it will end up crashing on startup because so many are packed into Dominion that adding another area or two will reach that limit or surpass it.

Another issue is just how much content is packed into just the starting area, that's going to leave an impression on newer players that every area has that much content and said players will be disappointed to find out that is not the case. The other areas are no longer even capable of handling this much content each because of that NPC limit.

This is one of the reasons people have been annoyed or even angry at side content getting priority, though the fact that the dev outright said it would be postponed to focus on main content and that statement turning out to be a lie doesn't help.

Support for followers was dropped to make the creation of new content easier. It can still be enabled in the options.

Due to followers no longer being supported, having the companion feature enabled will likely cause problems when playing through content created after support was discontinued.

Given that Inno has produced next to no new content since ceasing support, the number of instances where it causes problems is pretty low. And Elementals are better companions anyway.

However, as with all unsupported systems, it will eventually get into a conflict with newer code, thus requiring a fix for the old code or its removal entirely, which is going to rile people up even more than discontinuation did.

 

[Duarchy]

(I do actually support her dropping that, followers exponentially complicate sex scenes)

And Elementals are better companions anyway.

Follower > Elemental, sure they complicate sex, but that's because they're at least present. That or I'm retarded and I don't know how to spit roast enemies with my elemental. Elementals just don't have much personality, and there's not much there to grasp, where as a follower can be a basically fleshed out character in and of themselves. It is neat that elementals can't be searched by the police though. But yeah, the follower mechanic allowed for interesting things, like offering your follower dibs on boning the enemy. Also, it's just a more interesting dynamic, like a giant horned quadruped demon rat girl, and her lesser rat girl cultist follower. I for one would take follower support over the NPC focus we've seen lately, but I think my biases are evident, I'm very anti-anti-sandbox.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

So, for those interested, there's actually entire theses developing around the concept of the patreon business model. After all, its sort of a unique halfway point. A patreon dev isnt really selling a product after all, they're either selling access to something (only subs get the product)- which has a business precedent, or they're selling early access to something that eventually is free. That bit's more murky.

Inno uses the second model.

Nitpick, but technically Inno is selling convenient access, not early access. Anyone with a command line and two brain cells to rub together can legitimately get the updates at the same time as the subscribers.

 

[redcynic]

True! Hell, I did it and if I can do it you don't even need two braincells.