Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.11.3 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[PopularPersonality]

There is no easy way to do what you want. Android itself is limited to java 7 thus newer java classes cannot be compiled to execute any bytecode that is newer

Damn. I thought there was a chance

 

[PussyPassAnon]

yeah that is bad. i like this game but i agree it is in development hell and your review is a fair assessment of the game state it (probably) shouldn't be removed im waiting until 0.4 to redownload the game to play

See you in 2022.

If you don't start somewhere, you'll never go anywhere.

Implying the dev has intent to go anywhere, after 2 years of not going anywhere despite doing a lot (of unrelated things).

 

[PussyPassAnon]

I realized I haven't actually shared anything I've been working since last year (Dec), so I'll just leave this here. Unpack it inside the "mods" folder.

Spoiler: What is it?

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EDIT: Broke some code; fixed it.

 

[DarthSion98]

Free Cities has mods similar to what he describes, that will generate a visual representation from physical characteristics. Not only is it a conceivable idea, it has already been done rofl.

The forbidden mod for FC is lit m8.
They just added WebGL images and the next big update for it is 90% finished already.

 

[DarthSion98]

See you in 2022.

Implying the dev has intent to go anywhere, after 2 years of not going anywhere despite doing a lot (of unrelated things).

Nah man, see you in 2077

 

[theforstycow]

I'm almost completely sure that Innoxia has zero motivation or self-management capability. This person claims to work full-time on this project, but I highly doubt they are spending more than 10 hours a week on it.

My guess is they got into a oh-so-common cycle of promising something, spending the majority of their time procrastinating and under-estimating how long it will take, and then when crunch-time comes realizes that it will take way longer than original expected. Rinse and repeat until all motivation is gone.

Even with only one person working on this, no project of this size should take this long to complete. Games like this, 90% of the effort is the writing. Writing is something that is easily outsourced (often times for free to fans) if it becomes too time-consuming to do.

I think people need to explain to game creators that frequent small updates are better than once-in-awhile massive updates. Not only for the motivation of the developer, but also as a means to keep progress steady and fans happy.


Look at this person's post history. Almost every post starts with "Sorry for the delay". Try to find a single post that doesn't contain the word "delay". It is ludicrous.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

Nah man, see you in 2077

I'll introduce my grandkids to this game, so they can keep the hope alive in my stead.

 

[Mustang Flex]

The rate things are going, soon the update will be entirely fan submissions added in every few months when Inno gets done taking another break just long enough to get stressed about not doing any work.

 

[tehlemon]

I'm absolutely loving how more and more people I don't normally see in this thread are showing up to laugh at how stupid all these delays are.

This is why she nuked comments on the blog. Didn't want us to reach the 1000 posts milestone, all just laughing at her. We almost got it a couple times.

 

[ebonheart2319]

I see this game, and get the urge to poke its code.
Then I remember its an Elder God of Spaghetti code outside of Cloths and Races.

How hard would it be to add simple and missable encounters to main roads?
Add home and business burglary encounter opportunities to non-alley tiles?
Exe-Run over by Amazon Centaur and receive a Tauric Potion in apology with a coin flip if its actually a trappytaur potion.
Exe-Rob a shop/home and flip coin if the hat you stole is Cursed Panties level cursed.

Things that would actually add to the stale gameplay loop.
More Cursed Panties, less shirts and races.

The delays are insane, the Dev is a Scummy Flake, But in general the GAME is still a 7/10.
Even higher if it was optimized and streamlined for more robust modding.
Also so that it doesn't lag to hell calculating 4k tiles worth of bodily fluids every action...

 

[PussyPassAnon]

Things that would actually add to the stale gameplay loop.
More Cursed Panties, less shirts and races.

What about a Hogwarts-themed hat that analyzes characteristics of a character, then draws out and amplifies them to become more aligned to an archetype?

Yes, it will be able to talk and insult your choice of underwear.

 

[DarthSion98]

I'll introduce my grandkids to this game, so they can keep the hope alive in my stead.

There will probably be a full immersive VR spinoff/copy/fork of this game by that time.
Oh, and it wouldn't be made by Inno.
Someone else is just going to rip the concept off from the game and actually make something.

 

[thefetussundae]

I think people need to explain to game creators that frequent small updates are better than once-in-awhile massive updates. Not only for the motivation of the developer, but also as a means to keep progress steady and fans happy.

What about once in a while minimal updates?

 

[aluckyroll]

One issue is that while Innoxia is definitely not a professional making a professional product, I like to take a broader structural approach to these sorts of things and one takeaway I frequently hear from amateur programmers/designers/etc. is that Java is an absolute goddamn cesspit of a system and will murder every project of depth you will ever be able to dream of and initially implement. It just seems really bad.

 

[Deleted member 570248]

One issue is that while Innoxia is definitely not a professional making a professional product, I like to take a broader structural approach to these sorts of things and one takeaway I frequently hear from amateur programmers/designers/etc. is that Java is an absolute goddamn cesspit of a system and will murder every project of depth you will ever be able to dream of and initially implement. It just seems really bad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Java, just people who don't use it properly and then blame the language. The issue with this game is not the java language. It's how Innoxia went about architecting it. Why she felt the need to create an engine from scratch is beyond me, especially as a novice/beginner developer, and it shows. Using JavaFX for a video game is already rocky at best and she didn't even make use of the JavaFX UI Library.

Effectively Lilith's Throne is a web application embedded in a JavaFX application which is already going to cause considerable headache.

Her code was not made with extensibility in mind, as a lot of things are hard-coded and Enums are abused (until recently) pretty much every game object was an Enum. Her code is very disorganized, stuff is all over the place and the way it is organized means that with every new addition the time to develop increases exponentially. Not a very maintainable application.

Now all of this is forgivable, if you're a novice developer, you're a novice developer. You're supposed to make these sort of mistakes so that you can learn from them and grow, namely in a team-based environment with more senior developers to gather advice from.

Innoxia's failings is more due to the fact that she is a solo dev, and quite frankly the furry adult community is filled with these sort of devs because they realize they can make money while working on passion projects. Because of this she'll make all of these mistakes and not really know they're mistakes. There's nobody reviewing her code but herself, nobody holding her to good practices. And because of this those mistakes are allowed to fester until there's no going back. I think Innoxia realized that her bad development practices have caught up to her and nothing short of a full re-write is going to really solve these problems. And that saps your motivation hard.

Honestly if it were me, I'd of just used the libGDX library as the game engine, and then utilized the Artemis ODB ECS (Entity-Component Sytem) to build this game. Then made it purely data-driven with moddability in mind from day one.

EDIT: I should add that Java does have it's issues, but so does every other language made, there is no perfect language. It's just a tool and a tool is only as good as the person using it, and if they are using that tool for the proper job. The way Innoxia built this game, using any other language wasn't going to help matters.

 

[tehlemon]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Java, just people who don't use it properly and then blame the language. The issue with this game is not the java language. It's how Innoxia went about architecting it. Why she felt the need to create an engine from scratch is beyond me, especially as a novice/beginner developer, and it shows. Using JavaFX for a video game is already rocky at best and she didn't even make use of the JavaFX UI Library.

Effectively Lilith's Throne is a web application embedded in a JavaFX application which is already going to cause considerable headache.

Her code was not made with extensibility in mind, as a lot of things are hard-coded and Enums are abused (until recently) pretty much every game object was an Enum. Her code is very disorganized, stuff is all over the place and the way it is organized means that with every new addition the time to develop increases exponentially. Not a very maintainable application.

Now all of this is forgivable, if you're a novice developer, you're a novice developer. You're supposed to make these sort of mistakes so that you can learn from them and grow, namely in a team-based environment with more senior developers to gather advice from.

Innoxia's failings is more due to the fact that she is a solo dev, and quite frankly the furry adult community is filled with these sort of devs because they realize they can make money while working on passion projects. Because of this she'll make all of these mistakes and not really know they're mistakes. There's nobody reviewing her code but herself, nobody holding her to good practices. And because of this those mistakes are allowed to fester until there's no going back. I think Innoxia realized that her bad development practices have caught up to her and nothing short of a full re-write is going to really solve these problems. And that saps your motivation hard.

Honestly if it were me, I'd of just used the libGDX library as the game engine, and then utilized the Artemis ODB ECS (Entity-Component Sytem) to build this game. Then made it purely data-driven with moddability in mind from day one.

EDIT: I should add that Java does have it's issues, but so does every other language made, there is no perfect language. It's just a tool and a tool is only as good as the person using it, and if they are using that tool for the proper job. The way Innoxia built this game, using any other language wasn't going to help matters.

I just don't like coding in Java...

So I started with the other potentially terrible choice and started my prototyping in C#

 

[anon707]

Things that would actually add to the stale gameplay loop.
More Cursed Panties, less shirts and races.

All the new races and clothes you see are not done by Inno, they are done by modders who do it on their own time and Inno just throws that stuff into the game officially. The most she did for races and clothes was make it accessible for modding. So it cant be strike against Inno for that. I can at least give her credit for doing that, modding, while not an essential part of a game, is a huge way to expand a game's life and possibilities. Hell, if Inno didn't waste her time fumbling with the Nyan shit or half assing other shit, or kept making excuse for not progressing into fields and just worked on making the game more modding friendly, you would see a WHOLE LOT LESS complaining and mocking because at least then when Inno is too busy not being busy, the people can take things into their own hands. Modding helped filled the gap when it came to a lot of races that people would want in a mostly furry game (except for the cappybara... who the fuck asked for that) and even beyond furries.

 

[Carl0sDanger]

Free Cities has mods similar to what he describes, that will generate a visual representation from physical characteristics. Not only is it a conceivable idea, it has already been done rofl.

Thanks.

Paring down the character description would be essential though. At the moment, there are three separate stats that govern what a character's body looks like (Femininity, Body Size and Muscle Definition). That's 125 possibilities, and that's without considering breast (and maybe penis) size.

As the game currently stands, a full-body character illustrator is way beyond anything that is reasonable to expect.

What about a portrait (ie. head) illustrator though? Would that be somewhat saner to implement?

 

[anon707]

Free Cities has mods similar to what he describes, that will generate a visual representation from physical characteristics. Not only is it a conceivable idea, it has already been done rofl.

pics or you're huffing hot air

 

[mecha_froggy]

Honestly, what really bums me out ATM is the fact people still write shining reviews about this game.

Because it's like what Trials in Tainted Space should have been before they went off the deep end of trap sex?