Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.11.3 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[tehlemon]

I am unaware of such a reason for rejecting actually existing. The likely explanation is the usual one: Nobody who bothers submitting PR's ranked this very highly on their personal todo list and nobody who complains about it as a pressing issue bothers to submit PR's.

Can confirm, don't give a shit about this one. It the grand scheme of things, its so minor it doesn't even matter.

This is never going to annoy me enough to bother trying to do anything about it. Soubly so when there's so much else that's wrong that gets my ire first.

 

[262177]

I am unaware of such a reason for rejecting actually existing. The likely explanation is the usual one: Nobody who bothers submitting PR's ranked this very highly on their personal todo list and nobody who complains about it as a pressing issue bothers to submit PR's.

Thanks for clearing things up as usual. It would indeed be quite a thing if it had been rejected...

 

[IvoryOwl]

Another progress report.

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Hello again,

As many of you might have expected, it's looking like v0.4.1 is going to take me a little longer to get ready than I'd originally planned. It's been taking me a while to get new Elis content added and written, and so I'm still a way off from getting the update into the state that I want it to be in for release.

It will likely take me another week to get v0.4.1 ready, and even if things go badly it shouldn't take me much longer than that to get it done. For now I'll say that I'm expecting it to be out on Friday, 9th July, although there's always the slight possibility of it taking a little longer than that.

There's no hold up in progress this time from any engine work or things like that; it's just that adding new content sometimes takes a little while. There should be several new characters to interact with in this next version, so hopefully this wait will be worth it.

I'll make another post early next week to keep you updated on progress, so I'll see you again then!

 

[throbzombie]

Another progress report.

Another delay, you say?

Spoiler

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[Asia Argento]

Another progress report.

*Facepalms through my skull sending my hand into another dimension*

 

[IvoryOwl]

Another delay, you say?

Spoiler

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Well... she did warn in the previous post that it could take longer than expected. And did so again in this one. The difference now is that she makes it clear there may be a delay, whereas before it was a whole bunch of guaranteed empty promises.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

So, as I was modding, I suddenly had an epiphany regarding a complaint someone (tehlemon?) made about the status system. From what I remember, it was that it constantly evaluates a conditional for every single character on every single turn and drags down the performance of the overall gameplay.

Spoiler: Explanation

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Basically, I suggest the idea that Inno start shifting some conditional evaluations towards cell/worldmap-based situations if we're going to cut down the game lag.

 

[anubis1970]

Another progress report.

Another delay, you say?

Spoiler

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While I'm not surprised that the update was to say there was another delay, I am glad that Inno's communicating regularly and not just going silent like she did a while back. It's also a good thing that she's not promising dates for the new content, since her track record of meeting said dates speaks for itself.

 

[Deleted member 3541029]

I am glad that Inno's communicating regularly and not just going silent like she did a while back.

Well, in her case those updates means nothing, there's really no difference between silence and nonsense of her "updates".

P.S. I wouldn't be so rude if she wasn't taking money.

 

[tehlemon]

Another progress report.

Man, it's going to be really cool with v0.4.0 comes out!

...wait...

So, as I was modding, I suddenly had an epiphany regarding a complaint someone (tehlemon?) made about the status system. From what I remember, it was that it constantly evaluates a conditional for every single character on every single turn and drags down the performance of the overall gameplay.

Spoiler: Explanation

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Basically, I suggest the idea that Inno start shifting some conditional evaluations towards cell/worldmap-based situations if we're going to cut down the game lag.

I wish I could take credit, but it was actually Sarkath who really found that one.

Although, like what you found, I did bring up that the game is keeping NPCs loaded and active when they really didn't need to be. Proper NPC and asset management would do wonders for this game. Trying to find a way to fix this for everything in the game is what made me go "fuck this, I'll make my own" lol

 

[throbzombie]

Well... she did warn in the previous post that it could take longer than expected. And did so again in this one. The difference now is that she makes it clear there may be a delay, whereas before it was a whole bunch of guaranteed empty promises.

There would be no need for that if she just made more realistic promises. See, she knows she can't make the goals she sets, but she sets them anyway, meaning that nobody, not even she, will have any idea when the next patch is coming out. If it's going to take a month or two, just say that, instead of all-but-promising yet another delay.

While I'm not surprised that the update was to say there was another delay, I am glad that Inno's communicating regularly and not just going silent like she did a while back. It's also a good thing that she's not promising dates for the new content, since her track record of meeting said dates speaks for itself.

I don't know what's sadder; that you're praising Inno for this, or that it's genuinely praiseworthy.

 

[anubis1970]

I don't know what's sadder; that you're praising Inno for this, or that it's genuinely praiseworthy.

Not really praising, just commenting that I prefer the semi-regular updates to months of silence.

And the fact that Inno, or any dev for that matter, finally communicating semi-regularly is praiseworthy is definitely sadder.

 

[Sarkath]

Basically, I suggest the idea that Inno start shifting some conditional evaluations towards cell/worldmap-based situations if we're going to cut down the game lag.

The only (admittedly minor) issue with this is that a resolved pregnancy can technically affect other maps. For example, if you impregnate Lilaya (or anyone living in her house) and a map-based system is used, the pregnancy will only resolve when you're in her house, and will resulting offspring will always appear in other maps. As it stands now, you can impregnate her, hang around in Submission, and there's a chance that after she gives birth, you'll run into one of your kids without having gone back to her house at any time.

My somewhat hacky solution was to simply cut back on the number of status effects that are checked. For most effects it would wait until you shared a tile with an NPC (or until the length of time between updates got close to overflowing) before it updated the status. For status effects that can impact the game globally (AFAIK, pregnancy is the only one at this time) it would always run them. This would result in substantial performance gains, albeit with little change to the memory situation.

If by maps and regions you're referring to a broader scope (such as entire cities, chunks of the overworld, etc) then that approach would be a fantastic addition to what my deferral system is doing, as it would reduce the NPC count.

Another (likely far more ideal) approach to the pregnancy problem would be to add in a scheduler for globally-impactful events. This would allow the NPC to be unloaded at will, then reloaded on demand when the event resolves regardless of where they are. I think tehlemon and I discussed something like this a while back.

 

[tehlemon]

Another (likely far more ideal) approach to the pregnancy problem would be to add in a scheduler for globally-impactful events. This would allow the NPC to be unloaded at will, then reloaded on demand when the event resolves regardless of where they are. I think tehlemon and I discussed something like this a while back.

Yup. And instead of actually trying to make that work for LT, I ripped it wholesale and used it in my own prototype instead lol

 

[PussyPassAnon]

The only (admittedly minor) issue with this is that a resolved pregnancy can technically affect other maps. For example, if you impregnate Lilaya (or anyone living in her house) and a map-based system is used, the pregnancy will only resolve when you're in her house, and will resulting offspring will always appear in other maps. As it stands now, you can impregnate her, hang around in Submission, and there's a chance that after she gives birth, you'll run into one of your kids without having gone back to her house at any time.

Honestly, that would logically require global updating, since pregnancy operates on the aspect of omnipresent time and also has multiple stages of progression that require updating. Status effects like this escape my solution, sadly, as I hadn't gotten this far down the road of the analytical process. But, I do think that instead of each pregnant character running the evaluations, that there should be a master-like hive code; a one-size-fits-all section that tracks and records all pregnancies and executes changes accordingly: having a single script running as opposed to multiple scripts of the same code running simultaneously. I'm actually experimenting with that concept in my mod and it seems to be working well enough.

Another (likely far more ideal) approach to the pregnancy problem would be to add in a scheduler for globally-impactful events. This would allow the NPC to be unloaded at will, then reloaded on demand when the event resolves regardless of where they are. I think tehlemon and I discussed something like this a while back.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to a "master-like hive code:" Some kind of overseeing mechanism that manages all pregnancies until key parts.

If by maps and regions you're referring to a broader scope (such as entire cities, chunks of the overworld, etc) then that approach would be a fantastic addition to what my deferral system is doing, as it would reduce the NPC count.

100%. Experimenting with this concept myself quickly showed productive results. A player could have as many characters as they wanted on any map, but none of the functions nor conditionals would see action until specific situations of engagement and it would save quite a lot of resources. There's many maps in the game already, so dividing the entire network up by chunks sorted by location would be a great way to cut down on the gluttony if we're starting to expand towards global maps and entirely new cities.

.

Thanks for the comment. I've included a brief explanation on my profile about my mod(s) and will remember to do so from now on.

 

[Sarkath]

100%. Experimenting with this concept myself quickly showed productive results. A player could have as many characters as they wanted on any map, but none of the functions nor conditionals would see action until specific situations of engagement and it would save quite a lot of resources. There's many maps in the game already, so dividing the entire network up by chunks sorted by location would be a great way to cut down on the gluttony if we're starting to expand towards global maps and entirely new cities.

Whew, yeah, I can imagine.

I think everyone can agree that the current system definitely isn't going to work if the game expands much further. I've been able to bring it to its knees pretty easily just by exploiting Dominion's population, and I know I'm not the only one.

Do you have a public git repo for your optimization experiments? I'd love to check it out.

 

[IvoryOwl]

There would be no need for that if she just made more realistic promises. See, she knows she can't make the goals she sets, but she sets them anyway, meaning that nobody, not even she, will have any idea when the next patch is coming out. If it's going to take a month or two, just say that, instead of all-but-promising yet another delay.

I don't know what's sadder; that you're praising Inno for this, or that it's genuinely praiseworthy.

I agree with Anubis. I see this as a compromise between Inno's adherence to her own deadlines (the "need" for them as "motivation") and being transparent with the community that it should all be taken with a grain of salt. It's not ideal but it's an improvement. Better communication and more transparency is something we didn't have before and, right now, I think encouraging improvement could be beneficial in the long-term.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

Whew, yeah, I can imagine.

I think everyone can agree that the current system definitely isn't going to work if the game expands much further. I've been able to bring it to its knees pretty easily just by exploiting Dominion's population, and I know I'm not the only one.

Do you have a public git repo for your optimization experiments? I'd love to check it out.

I don't. I haven't done any tests particularly for the Status Effect function, but I've simulated the general idea through my own mod. I took a look at the core function in GameCharacter.java called "calculateStatusEffects" and the thing that stands out to me are the for loops constantly running on every turn. For example:

        for(AppliedStatusEffect appliedSe : new ArrayList<>(statusEffects))
        {
            [code]
        }

The general idea I going for in my suggestion was something like:

    if(this.isPlayer() || (this.getCell() == Main.game.getPlayer().getCell() )
    {
        for(AppliedStatusEffect appliedSe : new ArrayList<>(statusEffects))
        {
            [code]
        }
    }

It's not perfect, because I haven't assessed the logical conflicts that would occur from some status effects, but just something simple that and then add in simple counters that track the passed amounts of time, adds them up, and then when the condition is met, apply the changes at once rather than turn-by-turn. It's probably more complex than how I'm presenting it, but that's the general idea I'm aiming to convey.

 

[Cadenboy8]

Hmm seems as though that the save menu button seems to be broken as in when i click it doesn't take me the save menu. Quick save and Quick load work tho.

 

[anon707]

Well... she did warn in the previous post that it could take longer than expected. And did so again in this one. The difference now is that she makes it clear there may be a delay, whereas before it was a whole bunch of guaranteed empty promises.

if inno wants to set these dates as "goal" purely for her own self motivation, she can at least keep it to herself instead of giving everyone else an expectation.