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alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
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I'm curious, does your mod intend to overhaul/rebalance the economy?
Because right now you can earn so much money through slavery (fluid-producing slaves/selling demon slaves), and there's nothing worthwhile to spend it on after a few one-off purchases.
Earning more money becomes pointless very quickly, which in turn makes tasks that primarily exist to earn money lose a big chunk of their incentive.

What is needed are interesting purchases that are expensive, but don't ruin your game experience if you opt not to buy them.
Ideally recurring purchases, or if they are one-offs, there should be a large enough number of them that the moneysink lasts several in-game years.

I think the spa was a (very small) step in the right direction.
It would be good to have more complex rooms that cost a lot more to build than the spa, have high daily upkeep costs (much moreso than the spa or any existing room), and offer truly unique functions and non-generic sex interactions.

Your workshop sounds like it could go in that direction, requiring expensive equipment to improve its level, and rare/costly raw materials to produce higher-tier goods.
And in return for that investment, it would offer some benefits that could not be acquired any other way, like buff potions with a higher active effect cap than hand-brewed/shop-bought stuff, or advanced transformatives capable of overriding demonic immunity to standard TFs.

However, it is still rather problematic how the existing broken moneymaking methods get in the way of any kind of moneymaking system added later (like your proposed job quests).
Multiple millions of flames per day via a fully-automated system (i.e. a stable of fluid-producing slaves) should never have been possible until after the main quest was completed, and "just don't use them then" is a terrible non-solution. Better that they're rebalanced so they can be used without snapping the game in two (eg. scale the base fluid prices down a lot, and also add supply-and-demand that scales prices down even further based on raw volume of fluids sold in a sliding one-month window).

But perhaps it's outside the scope of the mod as you stated you didn't want to make significant tweaks to the base game.
So maybe you would be limited to adding more moneysinks to prevent the current "money is useless" state, but without touching the base earnings possible in the core game? In other words you would price everything assuming the broken moneymaking methods were being abused.
I do think that is going beyond the scope of the mod, but these are some great ideas for rebalancing in direct core development, not that Inno will listen, they never do. You mention adding some more things to buy. Well, the quad rooms need some rebalancing in the form of options that actually allow for a balanced positive on both stats. As it is now, the only way to get a daily positive in one stat is to take a daily negative or no change in the other. No other bedroom type has this issue and that is because the options we already have are built around the double rooms as the biggest. As far as I can tell, there was nothing done to balance the stat gains and losses when quad rooms were added. My idea is simple, add more options like the obedience trainer or room service, but with this higher stat gain they provide will also come a higher cost both to install and for upkeep so that they don't get too OP and just end up pushing the issue in the opposite direction.
 

Scapdra1

Newbie
Feb 3, 2021
71
57
141
An Alchemy room? just allow me to create a (appropriately expensive) potion that increases the orgasm requirements of NPCs so that playing a submissive role isn't so jarringly short and I will be extremely happy.
 

throbzombie

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2020
1,204
2,565
375
An Alchemy room? just allow me to create a (appropriately expensive) potion that increases the orgasm requirements of NPCs so that playing a submissive role isn't so jarringly short and I will be extremely happy.
The "Object of Desire" perk increases number of necessary orgasms by one.
 

PussyPassAnon

Member
Dec 18, 2018
186
271
73
Yeah, and the base orgasm limit for any morph is one. two orgasms are still over extremely quickly, especially if you are performing actions they fetishize
The work-around for that (as of now) is to take a dominant position, but enable control for the NPCs to do whatever they want to do. That's fine and dandy in 1-on-1 sexual encounters, but it's tedious as heck in group sex. So, in group sex, take on a sub role and the encounter lasts longer because the dominants want to ensure everyone achieves their desired orgasm counts - more subs alongside you extends the sexual encounter.

So, basically just be the initiator in 1-on-1; be the sub in group sex.
 

Marlin Brandy

Member
Aug 18, 2018
353
764
275
I'm curious, does your mod intend to overhaul/rebalance the economy?
Because right now you can earn so much money through slavery (fluid-producing slaves/selling demon slaves), and there's nothing worthwhile to spend it on after a few one-off purchases.
The game needs a virtual stock market system to balance slave fluid dumping. Maybe have a random daily value assigned to each sellable item as a start, which is then lowered/raised based on amount of production/overflowing from previous deals. In
In this case, if you have as an example, 3 addictive wolf fluid slaves constantly pumping fluids, these will eventually net diminishing returns as the market gets oversaturated, making it so you have to diversify your portfolio or put those slaves on the backburner while you sell something else and wait for the value to pick back up. Maybe the diminishing value could get so low you actually can't even pay off your overhead as you start rolling into the red. Maybe you go into negative value, and need to pay people to buy some stock off you.
This could be helped by even having a more extensive slave job schedule, allowing set ups for several days instead of simply the hours in a day. It could also make the office be a less useless room, letting you check into market values, which otherwise could be only accessible in the town square/some other place.
Fuck lilith's throne being a sex game, I want it turned into Wall Street simulator.
 
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Scapdra1

Newbie
Feb 3, 2021
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141
The work-around for that (as of now) is to take a dominant position, but enable control for the NPCs to do whatever they want to do. That's fine and dandy in 1-on-1 sexual encounters, but it's tedious as heck in group sex. So, in group sex, take on a sub role and the encounter lasts longer because the dominants want to ensure everyone achieves their desired orgasm counts - more subs alongside you extends the sexual encounter.

So, basically just be the initiator in 1-on-1; be the sub in group sex.
Unrestricting control of a submissive NPC allows them to end sex when satisfied. And allowing position changes without unrestricting control causes the sex AI to shit itself so hard that it has a chance to completely lock up the game, requiring you to close the program and re-open it.

Edit: and the only real group encounters outside of threesomes with slaves are imp gangs, who have the slightly better orgasm limit of two at base and three with Object of Desire.
 
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Carl0sDanger

Active Member
May 22, 2020
556
850
191
So when we do eventually fight lilith, losing the fight will just result in us getting tossed out and nothing bad happens, because "it is not meant for the player". That certainly isn't immersion breaking at all. Glad to hear she'll just give us a pat on the back and say "better luck next time".
This would actually be a really good point in the story to have a possible MC enslavement.

It's already established that Lilith wants whatever of her power resides in the MC. So if the MC loses to Lilith, it would make sense - within the logic of the game, that is - that the MC would be imprisoned so that they could have the Lilith-power fucked out of them.

So, perhaps some kind of level-draining combined with custom kinky sex scenes? Escape the dungeons before the MC is reduced to zero levels. Fail to escape: bad end. Escape: rejoin with your allies, re-level (perhaps even rebuild) and have another crack at Lilith.
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,229
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It's Sunday. One week past when we were supposed to get an update.

Think we'll hear anything from Inno today? I know her entire life structure and schedule is kind of fucked, so we won't hear anything from her until the middle of the night, but do you think we'll hear anything at all? lol
 

Zethin

Succubus Rhapsodia
Donor
May 14, 2017
156
507
111
I avoid slaves as much as possible due to how badly they drag down performance.
I've actually identified one of the probable causes this slowdown happens and am working on a fix. Right now in the base game every single time you move, the game loops through every slave in existence and runs a check to see if they want to use you.

I.e., every time you move one tile in Dominion, the game loops through every single slave every single time performing these checks no matter what. And it happens pretty much everywhere.

The workaround I currently have implemented is the game takes a random slave from the pool and looks at whether it meets all the checks. If not, it dumps the slave from the pool and tries another at random. When it finds a slave, it immediately breaks from the loop.

Obviously this is not ideal, because if all (e.g.) 300 slaves don't meet the checks, it's still running through all slaves per tile. But I haven't found an efficient way of handling this yet. I'm probably going to have to rewrite how tile encounters are handled to solve this.
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,229
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View attachment 1084220
Dates have been shifted! Place bets!
I'm still predicting that the fields content is going to be entirely limited to random encounters. I'd give an 80% chance that fields mobs are less common in dominion, just to get you to actually go encounter them. I can't remember if the random encounter system actually has proper weighting, if it doesn't, obviously this won't happen. The fact that she tried to redo the entire encounter system makes me wonder...

Oh, and she'll have done a bunch of work on Nyan's content even though she said she wouldn't.

But I don't give enough of a shit to look. It's been too long since this games had interesting content that'd motivate me. I'll stick with playing PoP.

I've actually identified one of the probable causes this slowdown happens and am working on a fix. Right now in the base game every single time you move, the game loops through every slave in existence and runs a check to see if they want to use you.
That is the problem yes. It's compounded by the game updating all the slaves and rooms in really unoptimized ways.

I'm glad its such shit though. It made me really think about how to create an optimized NPC scheduling system that wouldn't fall apart completely once you had 100+ NPCs. I'm a little ways away from prototyping it, but just based on the math it should be good. Plus I did some research and a bunch of AAA games use similar systems lol
 

e-disfunction

Active Member
Jun 1, 2019
732
730
191
I've actually identified one of the probable causes this slowdown happens and am working on a fix. Right now in the base game every single time you move, the game loops through every slave in existence and runs a check to see if they want to use you.

I.e., every time you move one tile in Dominion, the game loops through every single slave every single time performing these checks no matter what. And it happens pretty much everywhere.

The workaround I currently have implemented is the game takes a random slave from the pool and looks at whether it meets all the checks. If not, it dumps the slave from the pool and tries another at random. When it finds a slave, it immediately breaks from the loop.

Obviously this is not ideal, because if all (e.g.) 300 slaves don't meet the checks, it's still running through all slaves per tile. But I haven't found an efficient way of handling this yet. I'm probably going to have to rewrite how tile encounters are handled to solve this.
This concept might help you: do all the random rolls *only* once and in advance! Therefore you already know what or when something will happen and the rolls for that encounter are minimal. :)

When refereeing tabletop RPGs, I would pre-roll for *all* possible random encounters the players may find in an upcoming day (basically, I would know in advance *when* they would possibly occur and occasionally what they would meet then). So,
(1) *when* that time in the game arrived; and,
(2) if the players were somewhere a random encounter *could* occur; then,
the players would experience a random encounter appropriate for then & there. (y)

This cut down on some of the grind and memory work for me and certainly made the players' adventures more varied. :coffee:

e-d ;)

P.S.: Sometimes when the players were *not* where a random event could occur--I would make that encounter happen to some NPC and the characters would hear about it later from someone else. This adds red herrings and maguffins to virtually every genre and every campaign! :sneaky:
 
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tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,229
1,583
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Wait, are you implying that hitting a JavaScript interpreter hundreds of times every time the player moves in order to fetch a bunch of text that won't be displayed is unoptimized? :unsure:
Shit, is it really? I was honestly only thinking about WHAT was updated every action, not how it was being updated.

That's so much worse lmao
 

X3h0n

Newbie
Jun 18, 2020
24
17
61
Wait, are you implying that hitting a JavaScript interpreter hundreds of times every time the player moves in order to fetch a bunch of text that won't be displayed is unoptimized? :unsure:
Has anyone tried fixing that? We have the source code, so we could just make a version that doesn't do that. I've been making some changes to it to make a version of the game for myself(mostly making changes to the character generation), but I'm not super well versed in Java and would like to avoid having to dredge through the code to do something that has already been done by someone else.
 
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