Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.11.3 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[262177]

I can't believe I forgot to check her. Thanks Lazyrick... That code really made my menopause grow into a bimbo fetish.

 

[DeltaDuster]

Where do I need to do to go in the quest for producing more firebombs ? I just got the quest but it give no information and I dont whant to search for every npc.

I was too lazy to look up in the code for this after seeing too many "TODO later because I'm running out of time" on 0.1 stuff (e.g. LilayasRoom) that didn't even make sense at all so +1 on the question, thanks in advance.

If I remember right, you should hover over the item and it gives you a hint.
If you ran out of them or just don't care.. visit Roxy with at least one in your inventory (spawn more if you need, via buggy).

Aaaand I got ninja'd during a "connection error". Bah.

 

[Sarkath]

Also, fuck that orifice inception, what kind of code complexity is this, O(n^n)?!

My theory has always been that LT is Inno's first real crack at programming. It wouldn't surprise me if she had the idea for the game, realized that she couldn't realize her vision with any existing engine or framework, and decided to dive right into the deep end.

It's clear to me that a great deal of thought went into the overall design, but the implementations trend towards naïve. I mean, one of the primary reasons that moving around the map is so sluggish with a lot of NPCs is because all of the statuses are being checked across all of the NPCs at all times (write-up here, along with a preliminary fix and comparison video). I don't think this is something that a non-coder or novice would really think too much about, but this sort of thing would cause anyone who knows a few things about optimization scream.

I tend to lean towards the optimistic view that 75% of the game's performance issues can be fixed with minor fixes here and there. Basically, just taking the most blatant examples of brute forced implementations and making them run in a bit more of a focused manner, or in some cases even simplifying things a bit (one example being preferring more verbose simple loops over terse but internally complex Java streams).

Fixing the memory allocation issues will probably prove to be far more interesting, methinks.

 

[262177]

If I remember right, you should hover over the item and it gives you a hint.

Aaaand I got ninja'd during a "connection error". Bah.

Happens all the time. Thanks to you as well

My theory has always been that LT is Inno's first real crack at programming. It wouldn't surprise me if she had the idea for the game, realized that she couldn't realize her vision with any existing engine or framework, and decided to dive right into the deep end.

It's clear to me that a great deal of thought went into the overall design, but the implementations trend towards naïve. I mean, one of the primary reasons that moving around the map is so sluggish with a lot of NPCs is because all of the statuses are being checked across all of the NPCs at all times (write-up here, along with a preliminary fix and comparison video). I don't think this is something that a non-coder or novice would really think too much about, but this sort of thing would cause anyone who knows a few things about optimization scream.

I tend to lean towards the optimistic view that 75% of the game's performance issues can be fixed with minor fixes here and there. Basically, just taking the most blatant examples of brute forced implementations and making them run in a bit more of a focused manner, or in some cases even simplifying things a bit (one example being preferring more verbose simple loops over terse but internally complex Java streams).

Fixing the memory allocation issues will probably prove to be far more interesting, methinks.

That's what I feared too. I completely agree with you on the potential, Sarkath, but yeah, as you probably saw it yourself, something as insignificant as a slave's value can instantly destroy everything just because Inno seems to think this formula is a good idea... when it's a short int, and flames and essences are short ints too. At least that one is a very easy fix if you use replace all and isn't a performance issue, just a gamebreaking bug.

I can confirm (after doing and testing it myself) that removing 99% of Inno's nested code makes the game not only boot and run hilariously fast but also - lo and behold - eat less than 300MB of RAM with a fully stacked map, as the checks are pretty trivial. The downside, of course, is that there will be much less "immersion" and "realism", but Java really isn't meant to handle it that way without breaking or frying systems.

I'm unfortunately much less optimistic about minor fixes solving the crazy performance issues, but I hope you are right. If you somehow manage to keep Inno's sex manager, character handler and interaction handler "intact" and fix all with minor changes, you truly deserve even more respect than you already do.

 

[262177]

Where do I need to do to go in the quest for producing more firebombs ? I just got the quest but it give no information and I dont whant to search for every npc.

You also need to ask Axel about Roxy (for Vengar option to show up) then Vengar after meeting her, or else the Firebombs option won't show up due to this check:

Spoiler

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Of course, you can also just add axelExplainedVengar in your dialogue flag list as well. Now I feel even dumber and deserve it but makes sense that I skipped Roxy not telling, I completely forgot about the poor gator who owns the damn place.

Without actually looking at the code (which took seconds, thankfully) you'd think showing her a damn bomb would be enough considering the dialogue - the price to pay for laziness.

edit: Guess I'm removing the questline code too... I'll just export Inno's text.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

Who's Lotti?

Probably Leotie/Nyanmom.

 

[262177]

Probably Leotie/Nyanmom.

Thanks NoStepOnSnek, I was about to ask tehlemon if she got spawned at all since I own all uniques as slaves and don't have her. This is from the regular build, so it has all of them in their initial form. Edit: Wrong pic.

 

[Sarkath]

That's what I feared too. I completely agree with you on the potential, Sarkath, but yeah, as you probably saw it yourself, something as insignificant as a slave's value can instantly destroy everything just because Inno seems to think this formula is a good idea... when it's a short int, and flames and essences are short ints too. At least that one is a very easy fix if you use replace all and isn't a performance issue, just a gamebreaking bug.

Yeah, the use of more constrained data types in certain parts of the game strikes me as very strange. It might be an example of a well-intentioned (but failed) attempt at optimization by someone who doesn't realize that you don't gain much, if anything, but using smaller-than-native data types (and, in some situations, short is slower than int).

I can confirm (after doing and testing it myself) that removing 99% of Inno's nested code makes the game not only boot and run hilariously fast but also - lo and behold - eat less than 300MB of RAM with a fully stacked map, as the checks are pretty trivial. The downside, of course, is that there will be much less "immersion" and "realism", but Java really isn't meant to handle it that way without breaking or frying systems.

Clearly Java maps are to blame here.

I think that's one of those areas that I'd file under "interesting memory allocation woes." Changing the internal data structures to be more performant and less greedy should be doable with some work and plenty of testing, but given the hybrid nature of the way data is accessed (a roughly 85/15 mix of hardcoded and external content) there are probably quite a few cases where the current behavior is expected and required.

I'm unfortunately much less optimistic about minor fixes solving the crazy performance issues, but I hope you are right. If you somehow manage to keep Inno's sex manager, character handler and interaction handler "intact" and fix all with minor changes, you truly deserve even more respect than you already do.

I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, as it often is. There are still a bunch of areas that I haven't explored yet due to the sheer size of the code base (over half a million raw lines!!), so I'm sure there will be plenty of occasions where I reach for the whiskey.

 

[Duskreaper]

Hey, Sarkath have you put your save edit into v0.4.0.10?

 

[Sarkath]

Hey, Sarkath have you put your save edit into v0.4.0.10?

Inno merged it, so it's officially part of the standard game now.

 

[tehlemon]

Thanks NoStepOnSnek, I was about to ask tehlemon if she got spawned at all since I own all uniques as slaves and don't have her. This is from the regular build, so it has all of them in their initial form.Edit: Wrong pic.

Yeah, I meant Leotie. Tried spelling it phonetically without double checking it. I haven't actually *played* the game in like six months (whenever the nyan quest rework released), so that's the excuse I'm going with lol

I might try out the new stuff this weekend, but there doesn't seem to be enough there to be worth spending much time on. But at least it'll replace the Nyan rework as the most recent bit of writing. I'm still curious if that quest was a fluke (or if my personal theory that someone else wrote it is true), so I could use some new writing to compare against.

 

[tehlemon]

You must be registered to see the links

Hello once again,
This is just a small post to keep you all updated on how things are progressing towards 0.4.1.
Over the past few days I've mainly been focused on getting some bugs and other minor things sorted out, as well as adding NPCs and content to the Farmer's Market and 'The Centaur's Sword' tavern in Elis. I've still got quite a lot left to add before 0.4.1 will be ready for release, so while I'll do my very best to get it out in about a week from now, it's likely going to take a little longer than that.
I'll make another post around Wednesday next week to give you a more detailed rundown of what I've got done and what's still left for me to do, so I'll see you again in that post!

Nothing interesting or worth commenting on with this one. Happy to see she's still at least putting out regular blog updates.

I guess just to keep up appearances I'll remind everyone that blog comments are still off. You'd think she'd just say "we're leaving blog comments off" and move on. Because anyone who thinks we're going to be re-enabling them just to go back to having thread after thread of everyone laughing at how slow development is just might be crazy lol

 

[262177]

Yeah, I meant Leotie. Tried spelling it phonetically without double checking it. I haven't actually *played* the game in like six months (whenever the nyan quest rework released), so that's the excuse I'm going with lol

I might try out the new stuff this weekend, but there doesn't seem to be enough there to be worth spending much time on. But at least it'll replace the Nyan rework as the most recent bit of writing. I'm still curious if that quest was a fluke (or if my personal theory that someone else wrote it is true), so I could use some new writing to compare against.

At least you didn't pull health-breaking allnighters minifying the code... I guess at least I proved myself I could get it to run at a crazy high rate even with no less than 250 unique IDs on the same map (all being enslaved to you, and all being in a single slave room to further test things), but I ended up also removing 99% of the questline code since it was a complete mess. Wasn't exactly worth the druglike burnout though but oh well, I'm not doing this shit again... Sarkath must be laughing hard lol.

On the topic of mods, DSG probably knows this but the Wes questline (for people who don't know how to trigger it, "wait" for five days after the Angry Harpies quest - or just change the XML saved long timer to -7200 minutes or a 7200-minute difference if you want to nitpick - then randomly walk around the Dominion streets between 17:00 and 21:00) is pretty fucked up.

public static AbstractEncounter DOMINION_STREET = new AbstractEncounter() {
        @Override
        public Map<EncounterType, Float> getDialogues() {
[...]
            if(!Main.game.getPlayer().hasQuest(QuestLine.SIDE_WES)) {
                boolean harpyQuestTimePassed = false;
                if(Main.game.getPlayer().isQuestCompleted(QuestLine.SIDE_HARPY_PACIFICATION)) {
                    if(!Main.game.getDialogueFlags().hasSavedLong("angry_harpies_completed")) {
                        Main.game.getDialogueFlags().setSavedLong("angry_harpies_completed", Main.game.getMinutesPassed());
                    
                    } else {
                        harpyQuestTimePassed = Main.game.getMinutesPassed()-Main.game.getDialogueFlags().getSavedLong("angry_harpies_completed") > (60*24*5);
                    }
                }
                wesQuestAvailable = harpyQuestTimePassed
                                        && Main.game.getCurrentWeather()!=Weather.MAGIC_STORM
                                        && Main.game.getPlayer().isQuestProgressGreaterThan(QuestLine.MAIN, Quest.MAIN_1_C_WOLFS_DEN)
                                        && Main.game.getPlayer().isQuestCompleted(QuestLine.SIDE_HARPY_PACIFICATION)
                                        && Main.game.getHourOfDay()>=17 && Main.game.getHourOfDay()<=21;
            }
[...]
}

This one is just for people curious on how Inno codes (and it's far from the worst instance).

The things that DSG might want to look at (if he doesn't already know about it) - only the collars are an actual issue as this can technically cause a slave handling fuckup and both of them being each other's slaves, including if you, for some reason, already own them, effectively owning each other while being your unofficial slaves (as the slave parser doesn't check for the owner, the rightful owner requires an additional check) so yes, either way, they're both their own masters and slaves at the same time:
- Minor conditional branch fuckups in the XML causing them to be treated as strings instead of being interpreted for the betrayal route (this is just cosmetic bullshit as the interpreted stuff isn't all that important)
- They both have sealed slave collars even though only one of them is supposed to get enslaved by the other (this can break things really hard, as they're literally masters and slaves of each other at the same time)
- They lose almost all of their clothes after the quest, but more importantly the "ribbons" and "nameplates" you can technically use to impersonate them when meeting enforcers (which, in normal play, completely removes any opportunity to do it)
- More cosmetic bullshit as Innoxia doesn't give a "canonical" fuck about Superintendents (or Chief Superintendents for that matter): Wes casually states he's been promoted to Superintendent but even while he still has his jacket, the ribbon doesn't actually reflect this change.

There might be more but this is all just in case. Either way, thanks to people mentioning Wes in the thread because yes, you'll have to fish for questlines in code or randomly do stuff ingame for shit to actually give you hints in "normal play", as some people are dead set on playtesting this thing in a "normal way".

As for Inno's "progress" (regress) news: Please focus on fixing what's broken before adding anything else if you want to be professional for a change, girl. Or, you know, just add dialogue. I know, that's, like, totally mindblowing and stuff, but people like dialogue in a text porn game!

 

[PussyPassAnon]

Ngl, I've gotten to a point where I just don't visit the blog.

 

[DarthSion98]

Ngl, I've gotten to a point where I just don't visit the blog.

I've gotten to a point where I've abandoned the game.

I'm just going to wait and see how long it take for this game to be finally finished.

Feel like I'm gonna graduate from university before 5.0.0 comes out.

 

[DSGMods]

On the topic of mods, DSG probably knows this but the Wes questline (for people who don't know how to trigger it, "wait" for five days after the Angry Harpies quest - or just change the XML saved long timer to -7200 minutes or a 7200-minute difference if you want to nitpick - then randomly walk around the Dominion streets between 17:00 and 21:00) is pretty fucked up.

What's the issue here? It takes time for word to spread about your exploits between branches and he doesn't really know anything about you except your appearance. I feel like this stems largely from the proportion of RNG encounters versus fixed encounters currently in the game. This balance will shift, and I will shift it in my own contributions because they were not received well.

The things that DSG might want to look at (if he doesn't already know about it) - only the collars are an actual issue as this can technically cause a slave handling fuckup and both of them being each other's slaves, including if you, for some reason, already own them, effectively owning each other while being your unofficial slaves (as the slave parser doesn't check for the owner, the rightful owner requires an additional check) so yes, either way, they're both their own masters and slaves at the same time:

- They both have sealed slave collars even though only one of them is supposed to get enslaved by the other (this can break things really hard, as they're literally masters and slaves of each other at the same time)

I have not seen sealed collars being worn by both nor recieved reports detailing such, please clarify.

- Minor conditional branch fuckups in the XML causing them to be treated as strings instead of being interpreted for the betrayal route (this is just cosmetic bullshit as the interpreted stuff isn't all that important)

I'm afraid I do not have all XML branch conditions memorized, please highlight where this is occurring.

- They lose almost all of their clothes after the quest, but more importantly the "ribbons" and "nameplates" you can technically use to impersonate them when meeting enforcers (which, in normal play, completely removes any opportunity to do it)

Would you prefer I hide those options in the sticker menu? I added those to uniform checks for completeness and to handle cheaters. It makes no sense for the player to get their hands on either uniform at this time.

- More cosmetic bullshit as Innoxia doesn't give a "canonical" fuck about Superintendents (or Chief Superintendents for that matter): Wes casually states he's been promoted to Superintendent but even while he still has his jacket, the ribbon doesn't actually reflect this change.

Promotions do not entail more medals as those are earned by the individual, ergo the ribbon rack does not change. Wes wasn't even born when one of those was awarded to Elle. Or are you referring to rank tabs?

 

[PussyPassAnon]

I've gotten to a point where I've abandoned the game.

You'll definitely graduate before this ends.

I keep myself entertained by creating mods. I'm having quite a lot of fun with it.

 

[Big Horney Bull]

So the gender pref settings mean fuck all now.

This isn't even a one-off thing. They're spawning all over the place. Anyone else having this problem?

some are fixed gender or traps nothing to do about that, that is in the script.

just like Lilaya always will complain abou brithing imp, even when you are a full demon and she has given birth to half-sucubuses and 1/2 demons, she stills says imps.

but for the spanwing I have no problem with the settings.
Mind tough that it only will take effect on new spawns, any "old" ones for the game will still be in there.
So Do those settings before starting a new game.

 

[throbzombie]

some are fixed gender or traps nothing to do about that, that is in the script.

just like Lilaya always will complain abou brithing imp, even when you are a full demon and she has given birth to half-sucubuses and 1/2 demons, she stills says imps.

but for the spanwing I have no problem with the settings.
Mind tough that it only will take effect on new spawns, any "old" ones for the game will still be in there.

1. You should know from the image that I provided that I'm not talking about those encounters.
2. That's an entirely separate thing.
3. Bully for you. Also, I know that.

So Do those settings before starting a new game.

I did.

 

[Sarkath]

Wasn't exactly worth the druglike burnout though but oh well, I'm not doing this shit again... Sarkath must be laughing hard lol.

Laughing on the outside, crying on the inside.

It's probably a good thing that the last time I did any sort of serious work on LT's code I had more than enough going on at my day job that it kept me from getting too obsessed.