RPGM Lisa [v2.90b] [PaleGrass]

[TheLecher]

Did you read what I wrote?

I think that it's very clear that I did read what you wrote, since I responded directly to the points you raised.

I just told you why the relationship variable runs into problems when used in a sentence. You can argue that it isn't worth it to go back and address the issue, but you are refuting my points without even understanding it.

No, I am refuting your points while understanding them. I am saying that you are mistaken. And I'm saying that it's probably because you don't understand how variables can be used in RPGM to control how dialogue is displayed. There wouldn't be anything surprising about that, since most people don't have any experience in writing events in RPGM, so they wouldn't be expected to know how to use variables.

What will happen for people who don't want incest? Will they have to keep reading things like "Landlady, I missed you so much!" And what about incest fans? Will they have to keep reading Lisa referring to Sharon by her name? Do you not understand the fundamental incompatibility? You cannot write a single script that can make both versions sound natural.

Why would they have to keep reading things like that? It isn't anymore necessary for Lisa to refer to Sharon as "Landlady" than it is for her to say "Mom" or "Sharon." The same dialogue can display in any or none of those ways, based on user input for the relationship.

Yes, you can - I repeat, you can - write a single script which can make both versions sound natural. All you have to do is set up conditional branches in your dialogue events, and have those branches check for variables, and then display the text which corresponds to the specified variable. And you set the variables, based on user input. You can set them to display the text entered by the user, if that's what you want, but then you end up with things like you mentioned, such as Lisa calling Sharon "Landlady", when that was the relationship specified. But you can also set it to display something else. For example, you could set it so that Lisa will call Sharon by her name, if their relationship is landlady/tenant or family friend or whatever-you-please, and have her call Sharon "Mom", if their relationship was set to mother/daughter.

If you know how to set up conditional branches and how to configure the variables, there is no reason why you cannot have both versions working just fine.

It seems like you are arguing for the dev to support the incest version by using the relationship variable whenever Lisa refers to Sharon. That is one solution that I already talked about. You write the script for incest or non-incest and then sacrifice the other version. If you use the relationship variable whenever Lisa addresses Sharon, it will only make sense for incest. Landlady, mom's friend, or anything like that will not make sense in the same sentence.

No, I am not arguing to support the incest version. Nor am I arguing to support the non-incest version. I'm saying that you don't have to choose between them. I'm saying that there's no need whatsoever to sacrifice either one, and that the user defined relationship can work just fine, if it is set up properly.

And, so far, it doesn't seem to be a major problem. We've had a few people point out inconsistencies in the dialogue, in places where PaleGrass forgot to let user input define dialogue, but we haven't seen a bunch of people complaining that the system doesn't work or should be changed. If we've gotten this far in the development of the game, and you're the only person who has seriously suggested that the system doesn't work, then I have to think that it isn't a game-breaker. It certainly doesn't seem like something which would justify a major rewrite.

 

[desmosome]

Yes, you can - I repeat, you can - write a single script which can make both versions sound natural. All you have to do is set up conditional branches in your dialogue events, and have those branches check for variables, and then display the text which corresponds to the specified variable. And you set the variables, based on user input. You can set them to display the text entered by the user, if that's what you want, but then you end up with things like you mentioned, such as Lisa calling Sharon "Landlady", when that was the relationship specified. But you can also set it to display something else. For example, you could set it so that Lisa will call Sharon by her name, if their relationship is landlady/tenant or family friend or whatever-you-please, and have her call Sharon "Mom", if their relationship was set to mother/daughter.

Ok...? We went from user input relationship to conditional dialogues?

What you are describing is essentially writing different scripts and is much more extensive than the user input relationship. You want if/else statements every time to check if sharon_relationship = mom | mother | mommy | aunt, etc.? Or do you want to switch an incest flag on if you entered something specific? That is obviously writing different "scripts" for the incest and non-incest. In case you want to be pedantic and act like you don't understand what I meant by "script," I was referring to a single non-conditional text line that could fit both incest and non-incest values of [sharon_relationship]. I didn't look under the hood because well, I don't know how to for RPGM, but I always check the script file on renpy. Not sure why you assumed I had no idea on how this works.

Why is this relevant? Having code that supports incest is also against patreon policy, in case you didn't know. You can't have code that turns on "incest mode" if you meet some conditions. Nor could you check the sharon_relationship value and display certain lines if it meets some predefined incest relationship. It's possible to fly under the radar, as many games actually do have incest patches that "turns on" incest by switching a flag. That is technically bounds for banning if they get reported and they take the time to look at the code.

You seem to have poor reading comprehension, so I will just leave things here. Not like I want to convince a random dude on F95zone.

 

[SubtleHustle]

Outside of my gripes for rpgmaker, this game is pretty good. I'm having issues with the game going to black screen towards what I believe to be near the end of this scene "Swim Trip 1-15-46 Double donk.png"

It's a shame because I did perform a save right before starting the hotwife path. But somewhere in that following pool scene the rpgm window goes black and the music keeps playing. That's a very long scene with no way of saving somewhere in the middle to my knowledge. Three for three for this happening so far.

Running an arch linux derivative with nwjs-v0.63.1-linux-x64.

 

[cold_arctus]

You seem to have poor reading comprehension, so I will just leave things here. Not like I want to convince a random dude on F95zone.

Desmosome, can you knock it down a bit? Your last few post in this thread come off way to aggressive and arrogant which makes you look like unlikable passive-aggressive person.

Your point how the games sets relationship in the script is valid; it's not the best in my opinion.

Is there a way to change it, so that incest (mom/aunt) and non-incest (landlady/best-friend) are supported? Yes. Problem here: PaleGrass doesn't know how to. He isn't a coder and not familiar with JavaScript.

As Lecher pointed out RPGMaker supports dialogue branches for different variables. Since the incest is mostly limited to Sharon, PaleGrass doesn't need to write two different sets of dialogues. However, minor adjustments will be needed. He even could distribute future content with her as a patch file on Lewdpachter same as we are used to for RenPy games.

Of course it is much easier to replace entire blocks of dialogues in RenPy using Python code than in RPGMaker but you can achieve almost the same with a third party plugin that reads the dialogues from a text file.

Anyway, the question is, if PaleGrass is able to do it and willing to go through all the dialogues and make the necessary adjustments to support dynamic dialogues, which would fix inconsistencies.

 

[JackBone373]

So when "John Cena" party will happen?
On the next update or still long way?

 

[TheLecher]

Ok...? We went from user input relationship to conditional dialogues?

Conditional branches are a common feature of events in RPGM. All dialogue which pops up in-game (As opposed to in cutscenes, though this can sometimes also apply to cutscenes, depending on how they're programmed.) in RPGM is an event. Although I haven't attempted to decompile the game data for Lisa, nor am I going to do so, I think it's a pretty safe bet that PaleGrass is already using conditional branches for some of the events in the game. Suggesting that this is a viable solution for incest on/off in the game is an easy progression.

What you are describing is essentially writing different scripts and is much more extensive than the user input relationship. You want if/else statements every time to check if sharon_relationship = mom | mother | mommy | aunt, etc.? Or do you want to switch an incest flag on if you entered something specific? That is obviously writing different "scripts" for the incest and non-incest.

No, I'm not talking about writing different scripts. This game isn't being developed in Ren'Py. It's being developed in RPGM. The game already uses variables, and all of the in-game dialogue is already being done in events (the only way to do in-game dialogue in RPGM). All I'm talking about is using conditional branches in the dialogue events which check variables which are set based on user input. The dialogue between Lisa and Sharon already checks variables based on user input, so adding conditional branches is not that much work.

I didn't look under the hood because well, I don't know how to for RPGM, but I always check the script file on renpy. Not sure why you assumed I had no idea on how this works.

I concluded that you didn't know how it works because it seemed obvious from your statements that you don't know about how this can be done in RPGM without too much extra work. And, as it turns out, I was correct. You just admitted that you aren't familiar enough with RPGM to check the programming.

And that isn't an attack on you, since you seem to be getting very defensive. I'm not interested in having a pissing contest with you. I'm talking about the subject under discussion, not about you. When I say that it seems to me that you don't know about this kind of eventing in RPGM, that's merely an honest assessment, based on the comments you've made about the user input defined relationship system. If you've never worked in RPGM before, there would be no reason why you should know about it.

Why is this relevant? Having code that supports incest is also against patreon policy, in case you didn't know.

I do know. I'm very well up on Patreon's censorship, and have spoken out against it often and loudly, both here on this forum and elsewhere. However, it isn't relevant in this case, because a user input defined relationship system sidesteps Patreon's censorship (at least for now), and the Ren'Py version of this game is not being developed by PaleGrass, so his Patreon support is not vulnerable because of how they code it in Ren'Py.

You seem to have poor reading comprehension, so I will just leave things here. Not like I want to convince a random dude on F95zone.

No one in this thread, including you, thinks that I have poor reading comprehension. This is just an attempt by you to make this personal and put me off balance. But I'm not interested in having a pissing contest on the internet. I'm discussing the subject of the user input defined relationship system, and why I think it doesn't need to be removed or replaced, and why I think that the developer should not waste time on a major rewrite.

As Lecher pointed out RPGMaker supports dialogue branches for different variables. Since the incest is mostly limited to Sharon, PaleGrass doesn't need to write two different sets of dialogues. However, minor adjustments will be needed. He even could distribute future content with her as a patch file on Lewdpachter same as we are used to for RenPy games.

Anyway, the question is, if PaleGrass is able to do it and willing to go through all the dialogues and make the necessary adjustments to support dynamic dialogues, which would fix inconsistencies.

I suspect that, if Sharon is set to "Mom" or "Aunt", then Paul will likely be set to "cousin" by a lot of people, which would qualify as incest in a lot of legal jurisdictions. And perhaps Touma will eventually have some sexual interactions with Lisa? But currently, even if you count Paul, we're still looking at a relatively small number of instances. The amount of reworking should be pretty slight, I would think. And there wouldn't be much extra work going forward, either.

But I honestly don't see that any major changes are needed, one way or the other. I've only seen a handful of complaints about wrong relationship designations in dialogue, and I can't think of anyone other than desmosome who has suggested that the system should be reworked. If it's something which is bothering a lot of people, or if it's important to PaleGrass to fix it, then I don't think it would be that much trouble. I just don't see why it should take time or attention away from continuing to advance the story.

 

[cold_arctus]

I suspect that, if Sharon is set to "Mom" or "Aunt", then Paul will likely be set to "cousin" by a lot of people, which would qualify as incest in a lot of legal jurisdictions. And perhaps Touma will eventually have some sexual interactions with Lisa? But currently, even if you count Paul, we're still looking at a relatively small number of instances. The amount of reworking should be pretty slight, I would think. And there wouldn't be much extra work going forward, either.

But I honestly don't see that any major changes are needed, one way or the other. I've only seen a handful of complaints about wrong relationship designations in dialogue, and I can't think of anyone other than desmosome who has suggested that the system should be reworked. If it's something which is bothering a lot of people, or if it's important to PaleGrass to fix it, then I don't think it would be that much trouble. I just don't see why it should take time or attention away from continuing to advance the story.

My knowledge of RPGMaker is very little and as far as I know dialogues are linked to their events. I assume that going through all the required events and adjusting them takes times. Time PaleGrass might not want to spend on dialogues.

As I mentioned before it would much easier to change or translate dialogues with they were located outside of RPGMaker.

To be honest I'm not a fan of user input relations either because it can butcher dialogues, if you don't use the correct relationships as intended by dev. Same as desmosome, I don't like that Lisa calls her Sharon by her first name, if you use the Aunt/niece relationship. I know that it is common to call close relatives by their first name but somehow it also limits the impact on the forbidden relationship. It just feels off to me. Of course it's my personal opinion and other players don't might it, that's why I don't bark or start to argue with devs in their threads about it.

 

[PaleGrass]

hey pale grass why don't you use unreal engine for render animated scenes. Unreal engine is best for faster render animations and it work on low end pc too like on my pc i have 4gb ram 2gb nvidia graphic card it work smoothly on my pc just take too much time to open.

I was under the impression that UE was just an engine - like a platform to use your animations in. Can you animate within UE? That would almost certainly cause weird lighting differences between the images and the animations if it were possible though ^_^

I understand, but the way it is now is the worst of both worlds. It does a bad job of portraying any form of incest, be it mom, stepmom, or aunt. It also does a bad job of portraying a non family dynamic. I guess you did the best you could to cover various different relations. I think that is fundamentally the wrong approach to it though. You need to sacrifice either the incest or the non-incest in the script.

You can write the script so that it makes sense with the incest relationship. This will naturally sound really stupid if you don't use the incest relationships. Certain situations and dialogues just don't make sense if you are not related. You just have to trust the players to have common sense with these things and use the correct relation.

On the other hand, you can also just remove the incest. For example, Sharon is mom's best friend who took you in after mom dies. She doesn't have to be a step mom. It's entirely believable for a family friend to become a child's guardian without adopting them. And they would just refer to each other by their names while still acting like a family unit. You can still let people change relations, but it shouldn't be supported in the script if it leads to awkward text on the default non-incest version.

Personally, I would just go with option 2 for this specific game. It doesn't seem like incest is a particularly strong theme anyways. But hey, that's just my opinion. It would be a pain in the ass to change things again and there would obviously be people hell bent on having some incest no matter how poorly it is implemented.

By definition the canon relations wouldn't be incest anyway, at least not in the real world. Patreon says otherwise ^_^

I actually call my birth Mother by her first name and have done for probably close to 2 decades, I suppose this could be a reason I didn't find too much of an issue with it. Lisa originally called Sharon "Mom" which was obviously changed but I don't think it's terribly distracting that Lisa call this sort of "absent parental figure" by her first name. There are only a few instances in the game where the player defined input is even used, often when referencing Sharon outside of her presence.

I can't honestly remember if I mentioned adoption in the script but that's easily removed because exactly like you say Sharon could've easily become Lisa's legal guardian without the trouble of adoption and perhaps most importantly it's not really important to the game's script anyway.

In the instagram intro quest, i met this men who wanted my autograph but after that, i can't search for that model in laptop. Can any of you guys help me...i played that 3 drinks bar event after that and did that had any effect on saves?

The only other requirement is that Lisa be wearing her summer blouse outfit but it should state that in the event at Lisa's laptop

Did you get it working since yday mate?

Hey here as usual I was eager to see the new update, always impressed with the work done when I played it with a special mention on the sharing scene with in the bath hub (the rendering of the expressions of the Lisa's face and the feeling of the feelings is incredible). Now I'm already waiting for the next stage, hoping that it will always be longer than the previous one.
Congratulations pale grass and all the team that helps you.

If only it were longer, huh? It's just lil old me, the grayest grass in all the land ^_^

Beta. Downloaded Final and the problem is gone. Thank you.

That's awesome mate, thanks for letting me know that one is finally fixed ^_^!

Outside of my gripes for rpgmaker, this game is pretty good. I'm having issues with the game going to black screen towards what I believe to be near the end of this scene "Swim Trip 1-15-46 Double donk.png"

It's a shame because I did perform a save right before starting the hotwife path. But somewhere in that following pool scene the rpgm window goes black and the music keeps playing. That's a very long scene with no way of saving somewhere in the middle to my knowledge. Three for three for this happening so far.

Running an arch linux derivative with nwjs-v0.63.1-linux-x64.

It is indeed a very long scene mate! I just had a quick skip through the events without issue. Could you fire me over the save you mentioned and I'll have a look? ^_^

So when "John Cena" party will happen?
On the next update or still long way?

I always read John Cena as "JOHN CEENNNAA" the party is the update after next ^_^ Post Patch > Party <3

I know that it is common to call close relatives by their first name but somehow it also limits the impact on the forbidden relationship. It just feels off to me.

That's a fair point, it probably does take the taboo out of it honestly. I always talk of how I'm looking toward the final product and maybe there is an easier way to include the original relations with Lisa referring to Sharon as "Mom" while still staying out of Patreon's crosshairs but for now I'm just pushing content.

It's not the solution even I want but it's the best case for now I think probably offering a "taboo pack" on a third party website with all of the content I can't have / show on Patreon later down the line which will be a pretty substantial content patch with the names fixed too!

I'm really not looking forward to going through all of that dialogue though zzz x)

 

[cold_arctus]

to include the original relations with Lisa referring to Sharon as "Mom" while still staying out of Patreon's crosshairs but for now I'm just pushing content.

Sharon really was suppose to be Lisa's mother? I think Sharon's role would fit better to be Lisa's step-mother or aunt.

Sorry, just me pissing against the wind.

 

[lg10]

Stupid question maybe but did your MC has already created an instagram account? Did you take some pictures around the city?

Yeah mahn, i got around 4 to 5 photo locations too.

 

[PaleGrass]

Sharon really was suppose to be Lisa's mother? I think Sharon's role would fit better to be Lisa's step-mother or aunt.

Sorry, just me pissing against the wind.

Oh no, Lisa just called Sharon "Mom"

Lisa's parents have always been deaded in the script ^_^

Yeah mahn, i got around 4 to 5 photo locations too.

Oh you've seen the Hyun account then if you've received the notification about Lisa's admirer then visit the coffee shop just beside Lisa's house when the black barista is working to begin that chain, I'm not sure if that was what you were looking for originally ^_^

Edit: The Barista rotates every day so you might need to sleep to get him to appear x

 

[neronwtf]

Yeah mahn, i got around 4 to 5 photo locations too.

Ok, just to be sure. So normally you could do the PC task. You must click on the computer in Lisa's room to see model's profile. I don't recall which was the option, but normally once you've opened your IG profile, visited the shop, you should have this option. And then you should do wht PaleGrass is telling you just before my reply.
Did you try on different daytimes?

 

[lg10]

Oh no, Lisa just called Sharon "Mom"

Lisa's parents have always been deaded in the script ^_^




Oh you've seen the Hyun account then if you've received the notification about Lisa's admirer then visit the coffee shop just beside Lisa's house when the black barista is working to begin that chain, I'm not sure if that was what you were looking for originally ^_^

Edit: The Barista rotates every day so you might need to sleep to get him to appear x

I can't access hyun's account and i have taken photo's in all the mentioned locations.

 

[PaleGrass]

I can't access hyun's account and i have taken photo's in all the mentioned locations.

You can't access her account, it's only used to introduce Lisa to Instagram

Hyun will be back later down the line ^_^

 

[lg10]

You can't access her account, it's only used to introduce Lisa to Instagram

Hyun will be back later down the line ^_^

So, just to be clear...SInce i can access my insta account, took all photo's, i should now visit the coffee shop to find the barista...Right?

 

[flachelence]

As far as fem protag sexual exploration/corruption games go this is pretty solid. I played the initial episode 1 release and the latest episode 2 chapter 2 and it seems like a fair bit of content was added. All of the scenes both times I've played seem to have a lot of time and care put in to them, they aren't just quick one and done scenes.

Generally I like the models, though sometimes the faces seem a little off. When their faces are neutral I think they looks fine but certain smiles come off a little uncanny. Sharon especially, her smile almost looks sinister like she's an actual sex demon. But that aside the bodies are something else, I tell you Lisa might have the most perfect fem protag body I've ever seen.

As for technical aspects I don't mind rpgmaker. The journal is pretty clear on where to go what to do. The only real issue I had was if you complete all the office jobs you can't take the instagram picture. But that ended up being fine because you don't need them all to progress the instagram quest, which is fucking fantastic, that's the sort of compliance more games need.

Most of the content isn't really my thing, but it's still all really well done, it feels believable. But typically in fem protag games I go for lesbian or futa/trans routes. Aoife is a great character but she doesn't seem like the dominant dickgirl I always go for, but I'll definitely keep playing just for her.

Overall it's really good and I look forward to the next major release, and wish you luck on completing your project.

 

[neronwtf]

So, just to be clear...SInce i can access my insta account, took all photo's, i should now visit the coffee shop to find the barista...Right?

If your MC have seen that is somehow similar to this model, then yes. You can't (yet) ask to become a follower of her. It's just to motivate Lisa to open and use a social media account.

 

[lg10]

If your MC have seen that is somehow similar to this model, then yes. You can't (yet) ask to become a follower of her. It's just to motivate Lisa to open and use a social media account.

The barista scene is also not appearing... I have gone to the place in different time periods and all, but still cant access it.

 

[neronwtf]

The barista scene is also not appearing... I have gone to the place in different time periods and all, but still cant access it.

Which are the options when you talk to him?

 

[Shackie]

The barista scene is also not appearing... I have gone to the place in different time periods and all, but still cant access it.

You neeed 20 or 23 Deviancy ( i don't remember exactly ) and 4 photo