- Oct 2, 2020
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When will I see some serious relationship with Emily? She's so hot asf
- Thread starter TTrick
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- Aug 13, 2021
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Agreed. I think we're getting there. This last update seems to be setting it up.
- Sep 2, 2017
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Etc...
We had this same problem in Area69 and I ended up making a separate thread to clarify the point because it keeps coming up.
You have these people who have this limited view of what NTR is based on their own interpretation, and then you have the broader view of NTR as it applies in the world of other media like video games, where the reason most people don't like it is because it is THEIR OWN feelings that are being affected, not necessarily the player in the game that is acting as their avatar.
https://f95zone.to/threads/ntr-in-area69.72019/
I go into it in a lot more detail there, but that's the same case here. It's the feelings of jealousy being provoked in you, the player, that are the problem, and these people just don't get it. Most of them no matter how many times you explain it.
- Oct 1, 2017
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It's sad that even after you explained to this numbskull that what he is describing is not NTR he still went on to leave a review of the game saying "NTR is not avoidable". What a prick.
- Sep 2, 2017
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The comment literally directly above yours explains why you're mistaken.
- Nov 1, 2017
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While there may never be a settlement on this NTR debate, watching people twist themselves into pretzels and have conniption fits over it will never cease to be entertaining.
- Oct 1, 2017
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The comment above mine? So yours? How does it explain that i'm mistaken? The guy still went on to leave a review which straight up lies about "NTR not being avoidable". You can avoid any NTR you don't want to see, that's just a fact.
- Sep 2, 2017
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I agree on that point. Someone else in the recent comments explained how you could tell her no and still get to fuck the girl upstairs. So the NTR is avoidable, you just have to choose the correct options apparently. (I haven't tested it myself, but I'll take your word and his on it.)
My point was the first part of your comment that insisted that it was actually NTR still, which is what I was replying to correct you on. It's not. It doesn't matter what the dev's intent was, or what you think it was... IF... and I mean IF it was you having to watch Mario fuck Vanessa when you didn't want it to happen, it would be NTR. It doesn't matter if your character in the game is in a relationship with her. It's that YOU want your avatar to have her only for himself, and YOU don't want to see her fuck another guy, or even know it's happening in a way that is clear and unavoidable etc. That's what I was pointing out.
For example this:
No, we're not. That's the whole point of playing the game. To use the character as your avatar. The situations in the game are meant for your enjoyment. Not the fictional character in the game that doesn't exist. You are using your avatar in the game to pursue those women by proxy. So when you are forced to watch a girl you've been romantically pursuing (or just for sex or whatever) get fucked by another guy, and you get unpleasant feelings about it, it's because you're being cucked. That's the point. It's you being forced to watch the virtual object of your interest, that you're pursuing by proxy through your avatar, be fucked or used for sex by another man.
It's all covered in the other thread and I'm not going to rehash it more here. Either you get it or you don't.
Again, in this game, as mentioned above, in that particular spot with Mario, apparently the NTR is actually avoidable. So the other person's argument was moot from the start. If you (your character in the game) LET her fuck another guy when she's not even your girlfriend, then you THE PLAYER can hardly whine about it being NTR.
I was just pointing out that the mods around here don't agree about the definition with many of the actual players. They share the "only in a relationship, only if the dev intends it, etc" pedantic view that is pretty useless in addressing what actually upsets most PLAYERS of GAMES where their proxy love interest is suddenly fucked by another guy and they can't stop it.
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- Jun 28, 2020
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Your fantasies about something are your personal business, but they cannot determine what that something is or isn't. Some people might fap to Frozen, that doesn't make it a porno. You're the one who is identifying yourself with the PC to such an extent that you feel like you're actually living their life. Likewise, you've chosen to expect your in-game self to abide by your personal definitions or opinions, even though you're consuming something that has already been created and you've had no part in creating it. If you think swinging/sharing is ntr, or any woman getting fucked by a man who isn't the PC is ntr, that's on you and completely irrelevant to both the game and it's creator.
I just played through that part and all h-scenes are avoidable. But even if Vanessa fucks the guy while you're interested in her, it still isn't ntr because both of you agree to fuck other people beforehand. Well I guess Joe's getting cucked. In any case, intent is what matters not your personal metaphysics. Open relationships are not ntr.
This by proxy thing only works when the MC feels the same as the player. If the player is getting jealous about something that the MC doesn't care about then how can you claim they're your proxy to experience the world through? You can feel as unpleasant as you want but unless that's also how the MC feels that's entirely you.
This site's definition of NTR is extremely useful, but wrong. Your definition of NTR is both wrong and useless.
NTR just means you're getting your girl seduced or corrupted away from you, whether your gf or just any other romantic or platonic female relation. A slutty girlfriend who cheats on you on her own without being seduced isn't NTR because no one is stealing anything from you.
Your bestfriend having sex with his girlfriend isn't NTR because no one is stealing from you. It's just plain voyeurism, the jealousy is on you.
- Oct 16, 2020
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The true Of bad Girl First of all she is sick Nympho
meaning Her feeling of guilt is OFF Second she chose to call the mc to get the excited feeling of taking her Friend BF before they be and also the Feel that she's doing something Wrong and that is cheating on her BF with his Best Friend Third For God Sake look at her Family They don't Have any clue that they have She Devil as daughter and she Enjoy this way to much for years
I do hope that she loves The mc and change But I guess this Naive Probably, as I said Nympho Can't Be Loyel if they can that would be awesome and good and all that
Love is Soul Bond & Lust is Blind act
meaning Her feeling of guilt is OFF Second she chose to call the mc to get the excited feeling of taking her Friend BF before they be and also the Feel that she's doing something Wrong and that is cheating on her BF with his Best Friend Third For God Sake look at her Family They don't Have any clue that they have She Devil as daughter and she Enjoy this way to much for years
I do hope that she loves The mc and change But I guess this Naive Probably, as I said Nympho Can't Be Loyel if they can that would be awesome and good and all that
Love is Soul Bond & Lust is Blind act
- Nov 1, 2017
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First, what is sadge? Second, my feelings about Ann's corruption path is that is it MUCH better than her shitty romance path where she hangs around the library and eventually decides to leave or something.Aren't you the guy who was sadge that Ann has a corruption path?
- Sep 2, 2017
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It's unfortunate that you don't understand.
First, let's clarify:
First, as I already stated, IF, as in the case in THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, you CAN avoid Vanessa fucking the other guy, but YOU, THE PLAYER, CHOOSE to allow her to fuck other guys, then that is not NTR. Because you, the player, are still in control of the situation and you have chosen to allow an open relationship etc.
But as for the other point, AGAIN, NOT THIS PARTICULAR CASE, but in general, as the other person was actually alluding to, that a female in the game that you're pursuing fucks another guy and you are powerless to stop it... THAT IS NTR.
Two different things. Just so we're clear. This case with Vanessa and Mario isn't because you can avoid it. That guy was wrong because he claimed it was unavoidable NTR when it wasn't. They just made the wrong choice in the game, but there are options to say no, and still get to bang the girl upstairs etc.
But as for the case that many around here deny is NTR, the more general case of the sexual/romantic interest you're pursuing in the game fucking someone else and you being powerless to stop it... THAT IS NTR. Again, this isn't rocket science. If you're playing a game where you sexually/romantically pursue women through your avatar, and suddenly one of the women you're pursuing fucks another guy and you are powerless to stop it, that is NTR, whether you like it or not, and whether the author intended it or not. Because it's the situation you, the player, have been put in. I'll try to clarify below.
Fapping to Frozen isn't a valid comparison here because you're not being setup in the position of a male character in the movie pursuing the female character romantically and sexually. Further, and perhaps vitally, in the game you're not a passive observer either, you're put in the role of having actual agency, to make choices that are supposed to feel like you're choosing the direction of the narrative, that it's supposed to be going the way YOU, THE PLAYER desire.
So to suddenly have that feeling of you being in control of the romantic/sexual pursuit of specific objects of your desire in the game... and then be slapped in the face by having that control subverted, and your object of desire to be fucked by someone else and you powerless to stop it... THAT IS THE NTR.
Again, I'm sorry if you don't understand that, but that is what it is, and it's why so many people around here hate it when it happens. Because of the nature of the medium in question. The video game where you are supposed to be in control of the narrative and experiencing it by proxy through your avatar in the game.
- Oct 17, 2019
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GOD I wish there was NTR I pray every day to the fap gods for juicy sweet ann waifu too get stole or ntred by the sneaky bartender or somone else on the love/corrupt route in the college but sadly no ntr until now
- Sep 2, 2017
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Etc...
I'm going to try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're actually smart enough to know better than to make such a straw man argument.
I quoted the definition that made it clear that it depended on your feelings toward the person. For example if it was a love you felt for your classmate that you hadn't gotten the nerve up to ask her on a date over, and then some other guy swoops in and kisses her in front of you.
In the game, that's like the equivalent of a character you're obviously setup to potentially have that kind of interest in, to be pursuing, and then to have that kind of situation occur when you thought things were headed in a different direction that you were in control of.
So if there were some random NPC that the narrative didn't revolve around and you for some reason super fell in love with that NPC, that wouldn't really be reasonable. But in these stories, you're literally setup in romantic/sexual relationships with these characters. It's very clear that they are primary options for romantic or sexual interactions. Vanessa is literally trying to get you to ditch Ann and come see her, fuck her, etc. Yes, despite her being in a relationship with Joe at the time, your friend in the game. You know the situation and you're trying to Netori Joe by fucking his woman on the sly. But if she were to bang Mario out of the blue, and IF you weren't able to stop her despite disabling NTR in the game options, that would be a problem.
Let's try to give a clearer example, as using this game is obviously problematic for a number of reasons when discussing the actual issue at hand. It really doesn't apply to Long Story Short.
So let's consider the example in the Area69 game I originally wrote that other thread about, you're literally shown these women naked at the start of the game. You're shown in sexual situations with them in day dreams, or shower peeking, etc. You literally have love points setup to keep interacting with them to increase points, which leads to increasing sexual and romantic interactions. And then bam, out of the blue, some guy from the bar comes home with one of them and fucks them sideways and there's nothing you can do to stop it, and it makes sure you know it's happening.
Now in that case you're nowhere near in a sexual/romantic relationship with that person from the game's story point of view. But it is abundantly clear that you're meant to view them that way and pursue them in that way. But in the middle of that progression, you get NTR slapped in your face. A lot of players were upset about that.
That is a prime example of why the general definition used by this site is profoundly misguided, narrow minded, and just wrong.
Because you are not your character in the game. You are a real human being experiencing the game from a godlike perspective, knowing things the character couldn't know if it were real life, etc. Having control over things the way that character couldn't in real life, etc. You are experiencing the game with the character as your avatar, but YOUR desires, YOUR feelings, YOUR choices etc are what matter. And when YOU get screwed over by having the love interest you've been pursuing through your avatar, and which the game clearly setup for that kind of situation, it is YOU who rightfully get upset about unavoidable NTR. Because YOUR feelings etc are what matter here. Not the character in the game.
And it doesn't matter if that character is already in a romantic or sexual relationship with you. That's never been a requirement either in real life or in these games. What matters is that a romantic/sexual desire from you toward that person exists and then is wrecked by someone else swooping in and "taking" that person from you.
This isn't just knowing that your married neighbor might have sex with her husband off-screen. It's the game setting it up as her being unhappy in her marriage, increasingly flirting with your character, getting romantically involved, sexual advances start, and you're diligently pursuing the next scene to unlock so that you can seal the deal and get her naked etc... and then suddenly you're shown a scene of her fucking some random guy at the gas station. Like WTF?
I'm not sure how else to make this more clear, but I didn't expect someone to just lie about what I'd actually said.
I'm not sure if you're just not able to understand what I said, or if you're actually intentionally lying to straw man what I said.
Neither is a good look.
- Oct 1, 2017
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- Oct 4, 2017
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blyzer, phreadom
I dont want to expand this debate further since we all know how trigger happy the mods can be when it comes to this topic but you mentioned that everything is avoidable, which in my case it wasnt. Hence I asked if this was a bug but then I got a answear that everything is correct what I experienced.
So without pointless back and forth, which sex scenes with Vanessa are not avoidable if you play the non-NTR path ?
I dont want to expand this debate further since we all know how trigger happy the mods can be when it comes to this topic but you mentioned that everything is avoidable, which in my case it wasnt. Hence I asked if this was a bug but then I got a answear that everything is correct what I experienced.
So without pointless back and forth, which sex scenes with Vanessa are not avoidable if you play the non-NTR path ?
- Sep 2, 2017
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I thought it was actually avoidable? You're talking about the one with Mario, right? I thought you could tell her not to sleep with him, and still have your character be able to sleep with the girl?
Let me go see if ...
WHAT THE FUCK... I had 35 pages of saves, and all the save FILES are still on my drive... but nothing shows up past half of the saves on page 8! I even copied my last save from page 35 to page 7 (slot 9), and it just shows as blank now and won't load anything.
ARGH. I was going to load up my save from that spot and check it myself... but now I'm not a happy camper.
(I'm on the Linux build, if anyone is curious.)
Only scenes with Vanessa and other guys that you can't avoid are her giving Chris a BJ at the start of her path and her fucking Joe.
Everything else you have the option to easily prevent, just don't be a simp and tell one of history's biggest sluts that she's perfect.
Kinda funny how that other dude who doesn't know what NTR is apparently also doesn't know what your question is. Got himself in too much of a tizzy over his weird self insert rant to even read the question.
Fucking Mario's girlfriend has nothing to do with Vanessa fucking Mario, it's a choice you can make on either Vanessa path.
- Sep 2, 2017
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I know you're not talking about me, since I was aware that you could avoid Vanessa fucking Mario and said so repeatedly since frozenfeet pointed this out before the last several comments back and forth on the topic of NTR more generally.
https://f95zone.to/threads/long-story-short-v0-8a-ttrickgames.31351/post-8498173
So are you talking about the guy who incorrectly claimed it was unavoidable NTR? Because otherwise the second half of your comment makes no sense at all.