VN Ren'Py Love Beyond Limits [Development Thread]

[ZX69]

Almost all of the information and all of the models on this opening post are outdated

Hello and welcome to the development thread for my game! The game is probably not going to be released anytime soon and I'm developing it solely for my own enjoyment and to do things in ways I wish other games did. I'll update this development thread whenever I get some significant work done on the game, just to keep track of my own progress.

Familial Love (working title)​

So what is the game about? In the game, you play as a 19-year-old virgin who lives with his family with no direction in life. The game is focused on your FAMILY & MILFS outside of your family with a grounded storyline that doesn't include any supernatural elements. My biggest complaint with incest storylines I've seen in the games here is a lack of realism. For example, one day the mom sees the MC's huge cock, and then they're lusting after their son with zero second thoughts. In my game I'm going to do things differently, family isn't going to be throwing themselves at the MC, and when things progress, everyone will question the morality of the situation and be very reluctant to break the taboo.

Realistic dialogue is also going to be a very important part of my game. I'm not going to try to monetize the game unless something crazy happens, so there's not going to be any bullshit incest patches that change the name of your landlady to mom. The story is going to be built ground up for the family storyline and the dialogue will very heavily reflect that.

Also. one aspect that I would like to see in games but almost never do, is a realistic-looking average mom. For me that heightens my immersion of the game and in turn makes it much more enjoyable for me, and I am solely doing this game based on things I want to see and would enjoy. If other people also enjoy it, great! Now let's get into the characters. Today I will be introducing the immediate family of the MC. I will update this thread with other characters as they get designed.

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The MC is a 19-year-old virgin with no direction in his life after finishing school a few weeks earlier. His father tells him that due to the family's financial troubles, he will have to find a job quickly and help the family with it's financials

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Emma is the MC's younger sister. She is an extremely shy and introverted girl who spends most of her time playing games on her computer. Recently she's gotten really interested in cosplay, but is too shy to actually do it herself.

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Annie is the MC's 24-year-old older sister, who has already moved out of the house. She is a personal trainer and fitness is her passion.

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Mark is the MC's 50-year-old father. He was recently laid off from his job as a banker and had to go work at an auto parts shop to support his family.

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Amy is the 47-year-old mother of the MC. She has been a stay-at-home mom her entire life but was recently forced to get a part-time remote job to support the declining financial situation of the family. She is a very caring and loving mother to her three children, but her relationship with her husband has been affectionless and cold for many years

Technical aspects​

The game will be a sandbox with a focus on letting the player do whichever characters' stories he pleases. Most of the conversations will take place with sprites with more in-depth renders and cutscenes during crucial story moments (think summertime saga). The goal is to have freedom in what you want to do and when you want to do it, but of course in the beginning of development, the options will be much more narrow. A lot of romances will be optional, but there will also be mandatory ones, such as the one with the mother because that is the one I'm most interested in developing and want to have it play a crucial part in the story.

That's pretty much it! Feel free to leave any feedback or comments if you're interested and check back for development updates!

 

[MissFortune]

My biggest complaint with incest storylines I've seen in the games here is a lack of realism. For example,

Because incest, in and of itself, is a concept that lacks any level of realism. While it's obvious that incest is far more common than the mainstream would let you know, there's no real compiled study with any sort of competent sample size. Hundreds isn't enough, thousands would barely be enough. And even then, incest is something that runs on a much deeper psychological level than most authors are willing to put the time into studying. Hence seeing "Mom see cock, mom horny for son" storyline being regurgitated over and over again.

And those who do delve into it start realizing how deeply incest is rooted in rape, regardless of it being of the forceful or emotionally/psychologically manipulative variety. It takes someone who's been in an incestuous relationship to understand how an incestual relationships (assuming they were of the consensual variety, which are rarer and often wrongly painted in a rosy light by news websites that attempt to shine a light on and/or normalize it.) begin. 99.5% of developers won't and never will experience it. Questioning morality isn't necessarily realism, just another perspective of something most here won't ever experience. Anyone can argue that a sister in a dry patch gets fed up of being horny and just uses her brother to get off is also realistic, but that isn't the part that'd make it realistic. It's what leads to it, and what comes after it. Why is the attractive sister in a dry patch? Why is she desperate enough to sleep with her brother? How does she feel after sleeping with him, regret or some newfound longing? What drives them to keep the relationship active while arguing with themselves about how the outside world would view their relationship? What keeps the relationship growing?

Also. one aspect that I would like to see in games but almost never do, is a realistic-looking average mom.

What is a realistic looking, average mom? Overweight? Big ass? Wrinkles? Short hair? Big, sagging boobs? Gray hair? Every human is different, so there's really no such thing as an 'average mom'. Realistic? Well, yeah, sure. But what is realistic? That lies within your own subjective taste and the circumstances you've grown up in. While a lot of them are have proportions that are no doubt exaggerated to an absurd extent, average and realistic don't exist when it comes to how someone looks, as the only reference you or anyone else has is what's existed around you.

The MC is a 19-year-old virgin with no direction in his life after finishing school a few weeks earlier. His father tells him that due to the family's financial troubles, he will have to find a job quickly and help the family with it's financials

It seems like, so far, you're trying to build your premise around subverting the tropes you see in every VN of this type. Yet, and I mean this in the most constructive way I can, you've fallen into what is one of the more generic ones here. The teenage virgin with nothing to his name is played out, and comes off very cut-and-paste to most.

Why should the MC be directionless? Why can't he be a graphic artist who's having shit luck finding a job after graduating? Why can't he be a struggling musician battling between listening to his dad about getting a real job and pursuing what he loves? Give the MC something to chase and put conflicts in front of it, give him a reason to grow, either for a girl or for his dream, or anything of that sort. Give him strengths and weakness, demons, give him some depth.

She is a very caring and loving mother to her three children, but her relationship with her husband has been affectionless and cold for many years

Again, you're trying to subvert tropes in a meaningful way, and I can respect that. But it's pointless if you fall back into generic tropes to create an open door. This is just as played out as the directionless MC is. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but how does this equal a unique introduction to fucking her son? She's so horny that she'll fuck anyone, or is it because her son looks so much like a young version of his father?

Wouldn't it be more worthwhile add another layer into it? What if MC accidentally catches his mom texting/tindering/etc. with another guy or he catches her about to fuck some stranger form the internet in her room? For example, they start talking about it and why she did it - then what? Maybe she feels the need to keep his mouth shut, so she uses sex as a tool to keep him quiet, only for their relationship to grow into something much further than she imagined. Or conversely, you can use it as a door to a blackmail/corruption/rape/etc. path as he has power over her and wants to lose his virginity. You get the idea.

The game will be a sandbox with a focus on letting the player do whichever characters' stories he pleases.

You must be a masochist, but I ain't gonna stop you from doing it.

I probably sound like an asshole at points (probably because I am one.), but it's coming from a good place. And it's largely just my opinion, we all know what they say about those. Hopefully it was constructive enough to take something from.

 

[ZX69]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that out, definitely gave me things to think about. I just want to delve deeper into some of these points and explain myself more.

Because incest, in and of itself, is a concept that lacks any level of realism.

You're entirely on point with the whole incest thing and in fact, if I had to venture a guess as to how most consensual incest encounters between a mother and son go in real life it's a one-time drunken mistake rather than a relationship that slowly elevates over the course of time and ends up in sexual intimacy, but that doesn't make for a very interesting long-form story for a game.

So, I suppose I would rephrase myself and say I'm not going for completely realistic incest, but rather something that feels like it could be real, while also providing a story that's interesting and engaging. Really my main problem with a lot of the "incest" games here is that the dialogue doesn't reflect the incest nature of the relationship any further than the characters calling each other "mom" and "son" so that the dialogue can be easily replaced with a convenient patch.

Every human is different, so there's really no such thing as an 'average mom'. Realistic? Well, yeah, sure. But what is realistic?

I agree, what everyone thinks is average definitely different based on their surroundings. But I would say that supermodel moms that have perfect skin and don't look a day over 30 are definitely very much overrepresented in the incest games that are released here. And I completely understand that, since it's a fantasy why not make the mom look as perfect as she could? But personally, I just enjoy the soft older motherly look so that's what I'm going with.

It seems like, so far, you're trying to build your premise around subverting the tropes you see in every VN of this type. Yet, and I mean this in the most constructive way I can, you've fallen into what is one of the more generic ones here.

Actually, I rather enjoy some of the tropes of a visual novel of this style and am 100% aware of the tropey nature of the setup I have here. I just want to take some of the things I dislike about those games and change them into something I think is more interesting. But on your point that I should give the MC a passion to pursue I actually think you're right and making the MC directionless is perhaps too high up on the trope spectrum. In fact, I think I'll take your advice and make him an artist of some sort with the father trying to push him down a more conventional career path.

Again, you're trying to subvert tropes in a meaningful way, and I can respect that. But it's pointless if you fall back into generic tropes to create an open door.

I think that just by having the father in the game I subvert the biggest trope of these incest games which is the dead father trope. And if the father does actually exist, in most games I've played he's just a side character who doesn't actually play any part in the romance between the mother and the son. In my game I want him to be present throughout the story and another obstacle to overcome to get to the sexual relationship. I mean why would a mother want to cheat on her husband with her own son? That's the question that I'm trying to give a convincing answer to in the game without just bypassing that part of the relationship entirely.

I haven't actually worked out all of the plot points and how it eventually evolves into a sexual relationship between the mom and son but I'm definitely trying to give it more depth than "She's so horny she'll fuck anyone" or "the MC reminds her of her young husband".

You must be a masochist, but I ain't gonna stop you from doing it.

The only reason I'm making a sandbox game is that I genuinely enjoy the coding aspects of working on a game. I very much take pleasure in the feeling of creating a new system for the game that works how it should. But I might have to scale it back to a sandbox where things mostly happen in the order I dictate for me to actually ever make any progress in this and for it to make sense. We'll see as I progress through development.

Thanks again for bothering to write all this feedback, I appreciate it a lot!

 

[milfluv69]

Wow, this sounds almost exactly like everything that I like. I appreciate the approach of making the mom have a more middle aged, flawed but still attractive appearance and the efforts to emphasize the incest taboo while still keeping it erotic. I'd say that the emphasis on taboo is what was meant when you said "realism" because like was said earlier, practically all IRL incest in gross and abusive but porn game incest just serves to add that extra little "oh this is wrong" spice to things.

I might be one of the few who actually likes sandbox as well. Just ensure it's not grindy. I actually hate the feeling of not being in control that comes with kinetic novels. Oh, and I'm very pleased you said that we can progress with each character as we wish. Locking progress for a character behind progress with another should be a crime.

A little bit of advice based on what I like in porn games: don't immediately show a character naked with some kind of peek scene, especially if you're going for that taboo feeling. For example, seeing the mom naked should be a reward in itself so that you can emphasize the taboo of the MC thinking "holy shit, I've actually managed to get into a situation where my mom has just willingly allowed me to see her naked". I guess in summary, a reward that's not earned isn't fulfilling. I also think it's good when a character has a kind of nudity progression. Progressions like fully clothed> casual clothed (sleeping clothes with no bra sort of thing) > underwear > tits out but in panties > fully naked for example

Only sad thing is that 47 is probably a little old for the mom to get pregnant

 

[ZX69]

Dev journal entry #1

Today I had time to work on a multitude of things for the game. I created 24 hour time system for the game that also accounts for what day of the week it is. I also started working on the environments for the game. I completed the MC's bedroom and decided on doing three time of day variations for main locations: day, afternoon and night.

Spoiler: Bedroom location and time variations

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I also completed the base sprites for characters. Later I will create different expressions, as well as mouth movements for speaking that will be applied to the sprites in conversation.

Spoiler: Character Sprites

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And finally, here's an example of how a conversation in the MC's bedroom during the day with mom would look like



Next up, to change things up I'll keep working on the writing (not coding) part of the game, before moving on to finish the rest of the environments in the house.


milfluv69 Seems like we are very much aligned in our type of game! The sandbox will definitely not be grindy and there will be a very clear tasks section that will tell you what you should do at any given moment to progress the story. And for the escalation of the "nakedness" so to speak I also agree, earned gratification is always better than instant gratification.

Only sad thing is that 47 is probably a little old for the mom to get pregnant

It is indeed an age where getting pregnant is very very unlikely. But because of that someone might let their guard down regarding protection and well... miracles can always happen.

 

[allura404]

hmm, it's a 3d game where the characters look good, there is sandbox, and incest relationships are realistic. I'm definitely in. Good luck dev. I'll look forward to it

 

[lawlieting27]

I love it! Can wait to play it!

 

[Lovesembig]

love the characters! yum!!

 

[milfluv69]

Just remembered this thread. Hope it's still being worked on, you've really got something special here dev

 

[ZX69]

Long time no update! so it's time for DEV JOURNAL ENTRY #2

Truth be told, it has been a while since I last worked on this game, but as I said in the starter post, solely doing this for my own enjoyment and using my limited free time on this when I feel like it. The good news is, I now have much more free time than I used to do, so I'm back at it working on the game consistently.

When I picked the development back up, I decided to do some character model reworks. It doesn't set me back on the development too much, since the vast majority of the work that I completed last year is in writing, coding, and environmental art aspects of the game. So here are some new models! (click to expand)

THE MOM: The mom only had minor adjustments, mostly fine-tuning of the face and slight modifications to the body. In the game, characters will also have varying clothing depending on the situation. In this example, the first outfit is the "base" mom outfit and will be used in most situations of the game. The second outfit is the mom's casual morning outfit, mostly worn during the mornings before 12 o'clock.


THE LITTLE SISTER: She is definitely the most drastic re-design of the models that I will do. With these two redesigns I also focused on making them believable mother and daughter, which I think this side-by-side picture showcases well.

​

That's pretty much everything interesting I have so far, I look forward to continuing development and updating you on how it goes!

 

[milfluv69]

Good job making those two characters look related, hopefully the MC also shares facial features to look similar to his mom and sisters. Best of luck with this new round of development.

Also, just a little observation that may or may not be useful: I assume the mom's casual outfit is intended to be nightwear that she's wearing around the house before getting changed, which I would assume she'd be wearing without a bra on since most women don't sleep in a bra. However, the height and firmness of her breasts seem to be mostly the same in both costumes. It could be worth looking at adjusting the model slightly while she's in her casual clothes to depict gravity acting on her breasts by having them sag slightly more. At the moment they still look like they're held up by a bra. Obviously my assumption that she's not wearing anything under that shirt could be wrong, but it's just something to think about

 

[patrickB]

Damn, yummy indeed ...

 

[Saint Blackmoor]

Seems like a good project with potential.
But I'm seeing a common pattern here 8 months between the initial post and 4 months since that post as of now. I don't mean to be a Debbie downer, but it comes from seeing it over and over again. And it's not to poke at ZX69. Who knows what life throws in your path to make you change direction? I wish the best for ZX69.

I just wanted to say I think MissFortune gave some very good alternatives to the original direction of the project.

 

[A.J.]

+1
deffo

 

[ZX69]

Glad to see there's still interest in the project here!

Bad news first: The hard-drive that had all my files for the game is no more, I'm going to have to start from scratch.
Then the good news: Because of my PC troubles, I finally got my PC upgraded and I'm working with an RTX 4080 card now, so I can make the game MUCH nicer looking MUCH faster than I was able to before and I can even include animations in the game. Also makes setting up scenes that much easier when I can actually preview them without freezing my computer for 30 seconds.

So all in all, working on the game, starting from scratch, it's going to be good. I'll update here when I have more stuff to show.

 

[ell]

Glad to see there's still interest in the project here!

Bad news first: The hard-drive that had all my files for the game is no more, I'm going to have to start from scratch.
Then the good news: Because of my PC troubles, I finally got my PC upgraded and I'm working with an RTX 4080 card now, so I can make the game MUCH nicer looking MUCH faster than I was able to before and I can even include animations in the game. Also makes setting up scenes that much easier when I can actually preview them without freezing my computer for 30 seconds.

So all in all, working on the game, starting from scratch, it's going to be good. I'll update here when I have more stuff to show.

All the best. Looking forward to it.

 

[milfluv69]

Sorry to hear about your files, that's brutal. Good lesson about keeping backups though!

 

[ZX69]

Restarting the project, I switched completely over to Genesis 9 models, giving me much more realistic looking characters, which is amazing for a project like this. Here's a little preview of mom, everything still of course subject to change but personally I'm very happy with how she's turned out so far. (click to enlarge, it's a large image)

​

With genesis 9, it's also much easier to make people look more like each other, especially across genders. And being the sick fuck I am, I want the family members to look as much like each other as possible. Here's my progress so far with the faces of my characters.



I look forward to working on the game more and sharing my progress! Let me know what you think!

 

[ZX69]

Dev journal entry 3..? 4? eh let's go with restarted Dev journal entry #2

I've had quite a bit of time to work on the game now, and I think I've pretty much locked in my character designs at this point, so here they are. I should also go about updating the original post in this thread so people don't get confused. Anyway, I also thought about doing AI voice acting for the characters in the game (except for the MC) And I've attached a few samples to go with the finished designs, so let me know what you think! Bad idea, good idea? Of course it will always be optional and can be easily turned off.



I know her ass looks absolutely humongous in that dress, but I promise it doesn't look as disproportionate when she's naked (or in most other clothes, of which there will be many, characters will be dressed according to the situation) And here's a little voice sample of her, let me know what you think, does it fit? Mom voice test



Here we have the father and his voice test: Dad voice test



Here's the sister and her voice test Sister voice test



And finally here's the MC! Please let me know your thoughts on these character designs and especially on the voice aspect, do you think that's something that's a worthwhile addition to a game like this? For a game that's trying to push for a realistic feel, I think voices as well as good sound design could really go a long way into immersing the player in the game, but let me know your thoughts!

I'm off to continue writing the story as well as design the environments

 

[milfluv69]

I love the character designs, they all have loads of personality. The voices I'm not so sure on. The sister's works well enough, but both parents sound robotic and inhuman in those clips. Cool idea, but for me personally the flaws that you get with AI voices would be a bit immersion breaking.