VN Others Luna in the Tavern [v0.38] [TitDang]

[chipsiup]

The Drm and lack of basic features on the public version to force the people who like the game to support is a bit questionable, but if it allows them to continually live of the game and regularly update, I would have not an issue giving a mere 2$. If you think of the public version as if it were a demo, is not that bad.

Here's the problem with that argument. DRM... doesn't work. DRM punishes legitimate users and does little to nothing to stop pirates. We know this because the mainstream game industry, Triple A games that sell for millions of copies, have been trying to push DRM for years. People have done lots of studies. Denuvo was one of the most uncrackable DRMs for a while, and game publishers slapped it on all sorts of PC games. But did those games sell a lot more than the non-Denuvo games? Not really.

DRM doesn't work. If pirates aren't able to access a game, it does NOT transform them into a paying customer. In this case, where the DRM locks out specific features, you don't see plenty of people lining up to sign up for the patreon. Instead, it generates a lot of bad will, as evident from the pages upon pages of complaints here. The game is down to 1.5 stars rating on here and it's entirely because of the DRM.

 

[cyan101]

This has a mobile game tag but no APK in the OP?

 

[flamie]

This has a mobile game tag but no APK in the OP?

You can play online:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[TitmusPrime]

This is the absolute worst way I've ever seen a game dev try to push for patreon support, this is even dumber than Denuvo DRM

 

[TitDang]

What we’ve lost after the game’s transition into online with "DRM":

Updates are released every month instead of every quarter
Updates contain half a dozen new scenes instead of two
Players almost never encounter bugs because bug fixes are practically instantaneous
A whole team is working on the game, thanks to which it now has good custom design, good art, a special scene viewer, fast loading and other features

PS: I got some fun with this "DRM". Remind me, do you blame Patreon and authors for patron-only posts?

 

[drebin]

What we’ve lost after the game’s transition into online with "DRM":

Updates are released every month instead of every quarter
Updates contain half a dozen new scenes instead of two
Players almost never encounter bugs because bug fixes are practically instantaneous
A whole team is working on the game, thanks to which it now has good custom design, good art, a special scene viewer, fast loading and other features

PS: I got some fun with this "DRM". Remind me, do you blame Patreon and authors for patron-only posts?

Hey boys and girls, want to learn the inns and outs of arguing? Fortune has smiled upon you, since today you can learn from a true master.

If someone wasn't aware, this is how you strawman an argument.

Still amazed at how condescending you can be.

 

[RocketSurgery]

What we’ve lost after the game’s transition into online with "DRM":

Updates are released every month instead of every quarter
Updates contain half a dozen new scenes instead of two
Players almost never encounter bugs because bug fixes are practically instantaneous
A whole team is working on the game, thanks to which it now has good custom design, good art, a special scene viewer, fast loading and other features

PS: I got some fun with this "DRM". Remind me, do you blame Patreon and authors for patron-only posts?

Your increases in content throughput are welcome, but that doesn't invalidate criticism towards how you monetize. You've made the decision to lock a part of your game behind a monthly paywall, and that is definitely going to piss off a lot of people; if you're fine with that trade-off that's fine but you'll never stop people trying to convince you that it's a poor idea.

In-game content blocking and Patreon-only posts are not equivalent; one is your whole product and the other is community update posts and polls, if the latter goes away entirely nobody would care. Swapping to a more restrictive model (online) in order to prevent people getting things for free is the definition of DRM. The restriction of basic things like skip and save as well is just ridiculous.

 

[TitDang]

you'll never stop people trying to convince you that it's a poor idea.

In truth, I don't try to stop them. All I can - offer another vision of the situation. And as we started to talk about patron-only posts, let’s count how much paid content could be in such posts and compare them to my case:

Early access. Used by developers everywhere
Exclusive content. A whole 3 out of 36 scenes in my game are available to patrons only. This method is also often used by developers, they release separate versions for top patrons in patrons-only posts.
Gallery. In Luna in the Tavern, discovered scenes are available to all players. Patrons have access to a cheat that instantly unlocks all scenes. Very often used by developers in the form of a gallery password in patrons-only posts.
Walkthrough. Sometimes used by developers as a bonus for a specific tier
Saving and text skipping. Not used by any developers except me

Let’s summarize. In reality, almost all of my monetization methods are used by an overwhelming majority of developers. The game has absolutely no grind to push you to donate for nongrind playing. Almost all choices follow a win-win logic for players. All the bonuses you can see in the tiers pave the way for future updates. The proof is in the volume of work we’ve done over the last 6 months.

 

[drebin]

Your increases in content throughput are welcome, but that doesn't invalidate criticism towards how you monetize. You've made the decision to lock a part of your game behind a monthly paywall, and that is definitely going to piss off a lot of people; if you're fine with that trade-off that's fine but you'll never stop people trying to convince you that it's a poor idea.

In-game content blocking and Patreon-only posts are not equivalent; one is your whole product and the other is community update posts and polls, if the latter goes away entirely nobody would care. Swapping to a more restrictive model (online) in order to prevent people getting things for free is the definition of DRM. The restriction of basic things like skip and save as well is just ridiculous.

You fell for it...

Now he can compare the patreon-only post system to his own. Which has basically no relevence to the well reasoned and valid parts of the argument found in the thread, it was never about the fact that he has patron only scenes like others.

It was always about the execution of these tactics and the shamelessness of it all. Rubbing it in your face, to manipulate you into giving in. (You could almost hear a mean chuckle in the distance going along with it.)

I said it's a strawman argument for a reason.

Spoiler: Today's lesson

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Thanks for the invaluable info Teach. It does feel like you're holding a lesson or presentation.
Still somehow you managed not to answer the valid parts of the criticism.

Edit:

It's more convenient for players when you suggest them to read the walkthrough and use the gallery "password" in-game. Otherwise, people are forced to find a walkthrough or gallery password in dozens of posts on Patreon.

It's better when top-tier patrons can download the game once, and it's automatically updating to show them additional content. Because of that, they don't need to replay the game from the start.

So? That's all? Did you actually read the post and what it contained?
Again, you're stating possible advantages and say nothing about what people actually criticize. You're trying to sell the system way too hard while handwaving everything else that people don't like.

Spoiler: Me being dumb

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My bad, I take this last part back. Didn't think you wrote it for that long.
I edit it, because I would rather not flood the thread with replies which are a few lines long. Keeps the whole thread tidier.

 

[flamie]

You fell for it...

Now he can compare the patreon-only post system to his own. Which has basically no relevence to the well reasoned and valid parts of the argument found in the thread, it was never about the fact that he has patron only scenes like others.

It was always about the execution of these tactics and the shamelessness of it all. Rubbing it in your face, to manipulate you into giving in. (You could almost hear a mean chuckle in the distance going along with it.)

I said it's a strawman argument for a reason.


Thanks for the invaluable info Teach. It does feel like you're holding a lesson or presentation.

It's more convenient for players when you suggest them to read the walkthrough and use the gallery "password" in-game. Otherwise, people are forced to find a walkthrough or gallery password in dozens of posts on Patreon.

It's better when top-tier patrons can download the game once, and it's automatically updating to show them additional content. Because of that, they don't need to replay the game from the start.

 

[flamie]

Kek, I just noticed you only cut out the last line of the quote. "Still somehow you managed not to answer the valid parts of the criticism. " Very disingenuous of you.
Got to love it.

I didn't cut anything. For some reason, you edit your comments instead of making new ones. I started to write my comment before you edited yours. Please, create new comments, it's better for the person you're talking with.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Early access. Used by developers everywhere

Not a huge fan but idc I have patience.

Exclusive content. A whole 3 out of 36 scenes in my game are available to patrons only. This method is also often used by developers, they release separate versions for top patrons in patrons-only posts.

Yeah, it's a shitty practice for shitty developers. There are plenty out there.

Walkthrough. Sometimes used by developers as a bonus for a specific tier

Personally I don't really consider this part of the game content and didn't care that it was Patreon only.

Saving and text skipping. Not used by any developers except me

I think this part specifically hurts you more than it helps. When I tried your game a few months ago and found the skip button paywalled, I immediately felt hostile toward the devs, and played some free games instead. There are so many free porn games around that the only reason people donate is because they like the work you do, when you pull shit like this it removes that good will from a lot of people.

Let’s summarize. In reality, almost all of my monetization methods are used by an overwhelming majority of developers. The game has absolutely no grind to push you to donate for nongrind playing. Almost all choices follow a win-win logic for players. All the bonuses you can see in the tiers pave the way for future updates. The proof is in the volume of work we’ve done over the last 6 months.

Not sure how that's what you got from the rest of your post. The proof will be in whether you get a long-term increase in support in the future. I think you've used motivated reasoning to logic your way into paywalls, but I don't think it'll pay off.

 

[TitDang]

The proof will be in whether you get a long-term increase in support in the future.

How long and how much it should be? Just curious.

 

[RocketSurgery]

How long and how much it should be? Just curious.

That's up to you, whether it was a worthwhile decision for you the developer is something only you can answer; all I can say is that it wasn't worth it for me, a consumer.

 

[supershuxiaochuan]

EA.......

 

[xxxKID]

i not speak english. i see game art. very good i like. me try to play (very hard no english). first one porn have to pay, me sad. i wait unlock, but never unlock, why never unlock? i have no money, i cant see, very sad. why dont make porn free wit time? give chance no money people please. i not care be later, me undestarnd, but let free later if me could i help but cant
please give chance, you good art, good game, culd be big, but sad, please let all free wit time, please ;-;

sorry english, i try me best

 

[BBBBB7]

0.6 is out

 

[murad3112]

can someone share v0.6 for us ?

 

[MessyDress59]

I agree with your points on the questionable paywall (And I think in the end F95 offers visibility to a lot of projects and allow more people to support on Patreon).
But it's sad how I see some projects with a lot of fans here and good reviews, but just barely reach 1000 dollars per month on Patreon (or even less), which isn't really enough honestly for one developer, with two or more it basically has to become a part time job. It really suck when some good games become abandoned be it for a mix of lack of income, developers becoming burned out, etc. Is not the case with every game fortunately, but yeah, I hope you know where i'm coming from.

The Drm and lack of basic features on the public version to force the people who like the game to support is a bit questionable, but if it allows them to continually live of the game and regularly update, I would have not an issue giving a mere 2$. If you think of the public version as if it were a demo, is not that bad.

1000 USD per month is not enough for a one man army? That's crazy.

 

[OldmenKing]

Hello Guys & Gals

Summertime Saga way is better. Look at how they work, they do not not need to paywall there game. Summertime Saga gets bigger and it may take longer to get there game out but in the end there way works. No Paywall & your game will work, but you should know patreon is about to fall if I where you go to subscribestar.adult. Oh! cus you use patreon and there logo you don't own the game you make on there website so move to subscribestar.adult or make a blog or website. I say this cus something been going on the internet, some search engine are actting up. Oh! one more thing the game parody your making you know who owns it so move to subscribestar.adult cus patreon will make you stop making it. I know, mark my words they only care about money NOW and end anything to make money.

I like to make this clear I love this art and this game so drop the paywall move out of patreon go to subscribestar.adult make a blog website and no word games will ever work on me.

"Mark my words I like this game your making. I love NSFW games"

With All My Love! Thank You to Everyone & Have Fun Faping and Shlicking!​