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ouch2020

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As for the reasons for Luna-Raven's weakening, they are quite obvious: after the nuclear apocalypse (the ending shown in “DIatima Isekai”, a game set approximately 20 years after the canon ending of LFFG and which is formally a prequel to “Luna Reborn”), centuries spent asleep, during which the remnants of the planet's surviving population diligently degraded to a medieval state, and the believers of the Goddess Raven practically disappeared, clearly did not contribute to the strengthening of Raven's divine power and greatly weakened her.

Therefore, when, centuries later, Luna-Raven finally awoke from her sleep, we naturally got a greatly weakened Luna, who did not remember her past and was not yet capable of supernatural manifestations of Divinity power. You can also read this post #776 , it complements what is written here.
Lokom85 to add up and complement (notice I probably have a different approach from Stan5851 about Luna, so, if I reinforce something he wrote, is for a logical reason, not to "support a fellow faithful"), if you look at the game variables and events, you will see that aside and independently from the "sacrifices" or not, how much diffused is the Raven cult is something that is tracked by the game in a specific variable.
You can even have zero sacrifices, and nonetheless have that value above zero, depending on how you behave in the game (in short, if you try to defend the Ravenites giving them a possibility to continue their worship, dedicate the victory at the mines to the Raven, let the Ravenites from the land of the Baron come to Cliftonhold and worship there).
So, in the overall balance of the game, my guess is in the endings or in situations later in the game, that value will have an impact, independently from the divinity points , that are more like a "currency" you can spend in specific moments.
 

Birdnman993

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Perhaps individually it was a short update, but overall between the three paths, I would say that the content was good.

The Mongols of Temu are already almost at the gates of the kingdom, and the asshole king wants to keep the princess from helping her future mistress Luna. The desert heretics number around 2,000 and a bit more (I rounded it up), and it's hard to say how many troops I have, so I'll say about 500 and a little more, which leaves us at a huge disadvantage of 4 to 1 soldiers, so hopefully the food we poison will decimate their troops, otherwise we're screwed, and some extra help from someone in good shape would also be good, I guess that help will be the raven ritual.

Hopefully, in the next update, I'll be able to better translate the troop points into numbers so we can better understand our chances.
 
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Lanceire

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a huge disadvantage of 4 to 1 soldiers
Historically, defenders in fortresses could hold off attackers for years, even with a 20:1 ratio or worse. And then quite often attackers were "defeated" by hunger and disease because well, it was the middle ages. In our case the ratio of attackers to defenders does not matter much cause the story is not historically accurate anyway, and with the power of Raven on our side, the "mongols" are screwed either way :devilish:
 

Birdnman993

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Historically, defenders in fortresses could hold off attackers for years, even with a 20:1 ratio or worse. And then quite often attackers were "defeated" by hunger and disease because well, it was the middle ages. In our case the ratio of attackers to defenders does not matter much cause the story is not historically accurate anyway, and with the power of Raven on our side, the "mongols" are screwed either way :devilish:
Yes, we could wall ourselves in, but as they said, they would loot everything and that would be a major blow to prosperity. Hopefully, they will give us the option of sheltering all our subjects behind the walls, which would be logical because we will need manpower to build the kingdom of Luna.

As for the looters, ruining their supplies will surely be key to victory because, as they themselves said, they are not prepared for a long campaign; that's why they came so quickly. The Khan underestimates Luna because she is a woman and surely expects it to be a quick conquest without much resistance with his overwhelming numbers, but as we all sense, that will be his downfall.

Now, putting that aside, what I wonder is how much our preparations for battle and the consequences will help if we are not ready. That, without a doubt, will be the most interesting thing for me.
 

Stan5851

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Now, putting that aside, what I wonder is how much our preparations for battle and the consequences will help if we are not ready. That, without a doubt, will be the most interesting thing for me.
I suppose that there can be no “we're not ready” situation and that Luna-Raven (the Dark Queen) cannot lose by definition, no matter what happens...at least, provided that the player who prefers this path chooses game decisions that reflect the Raven's way of thinking and behavior.

Therefore, with any of the available options, Raven is 100% guaranteed to win, although, ofc, the consequences of such a victory will certainly differ depending on whether we accepted, for example, the engagement proposal fake engagement or what armor we have purchased for our troops or whether we agreed to the sacrifice in the name of Raven or not.

In other words, the point is that pure Dom route, originally aimed at uncompromising victory in the game, simply does not imply the very concept of “defeat” in its meaning and design. The Dark Queen never loses to anyone. :cool: (imo)

When I talk about uncompromising victory, it implies the following:

1. The conquest of all lands under the King's protectorate, followed by the overthrow of the King himself, with the subsequent establishment of Dark Queen as the sole legitimate Ruler, harsh but fair.

2. The complete restoration of Luna-Raven's identity and the attainment of the true Divine power that was lost during centuries of sleep and oblivion.

3. The restoration of the Church of the Raven and the spread of its faith to all lands under our rule.

4. The creation of a harem of exquisite and lustful beauties, submissive to our will, ready to please their Mistress Luna-Raven, both on the Mortal and Divine Realms.

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ouch2020

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Perhaps individually it was a short update, but overall between the three paths, I would say that the content was good.

The Mongols of Temu are already almost at the gates of the kingdom, and the asshole king wants to keep the princess from helping her future mistress Luna. The desert heretics number around 2,000 and a bit more (I rounded it up), and it's hard to say how many troops I have, so I'll say about 500 and a little more, which leaves us at a huge disadvantage of 4 to 1 soldiers, so hopefully the food we poison will decimate their troops, otherwise we're screwed, and some extra help from someone in good shape would also be good, I guess that help will be the raven ritual.

Hopefully, in the next update, I'll be able to better translate the troop points into numbers so we can better understand our chances.
The 2300 raiders (between different types of troops) are indicated in the game.

How many you/Luna have and how effective they are depends heavily on the choices made (e.g. Mordred Knights or not, guards recruitment or not, increased recruitment or not, villagers as forced soldiers, weapons and armor level of guards, coin or not, mercenaries or not, Baron's soldiers or not), some of which depends on other choices that were not directly military choices e.g. if you refused the Baron offer, it turns out he will basically help the raider and hinder your efforts, it is not just the impossibility of getting the best stuff from him, so you cannot use the 500 number you mentioned as a reference for everybdoy as quantity, nor you can use the eventual effectiveness of your troops as reference for everybody.

So, "I'll be able to better translate the troop points into numbers so we can better understand our chances." is off, because you cannot say it for everybody else, only for your scenario.

In reality, there is already a value that you can look at very easily with URM - cliftonhold_military.

In the worst case scenario, the outcome of the battle will be decided by simply using that value and whether it is above or below one or more thresholds derived from the strenght of the raiders.

"Worst case scenario", because till now Frozen Synapses has IMO done a good job of allowing the player to consider, and take decisions about, different aspects, so, hopefully the outcome of the battle will not depend just on that, and it will be possible to take or not other decisions in 0.32 that will also affect the outcome of the battle.
 

ouch2020

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I suppose that there can be no “we're not ready” situation and that Luna-Raven (the Dark Queen) cannot lose by definition, no matter what happens...at least, provided that the player who prefers this path chooses game decisions that reflect the Raven's way of thinking and behavior.

Therefore, with any of the available options, Raven is 100% guaranteed to win, although, ofc, the consequences of such a
[...]
Big spoiler below, which, together with other elements (e.g. his openess on some things) confirms to me that Frozen Synapses has less of a "tunnel vision" about Luna Raven (at this point, I would say, "Morrigan") , than a number of other people.

In our exchanges, Frozen Synapses has written that indeed the only way to really lose is if the player screwed up big time (I don't have the details)
, however, he has also explicitly indicated that he has foreseen the possibility for Luna to lose that battle.
Would that mean it would be a game over with her a sex slave to the Khan ? Not forcibly, I myself tried to make suggestions about possibilities in which she can still go on even if she does not win upfront against the raiders, and again, he indicated it would be a kind of extreme scenario, however, not impossible.

Which mean, that "100%" may still be a big 99.98%, but still not a 100%.
 

Birdnman993

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The 2300 raiders (between different types of troops) are indicated in the game.

How many you/Luna have and how effective they are depends heavily on the choices made (e.g. Mordred Knights or not, guards recruitment or not, increased recruitment or not, villagers as forced soldiers, weapons and armor level of guards, coin or not, mercenaries or not, Baron's soldiers or not), some of which depends on other choices that were not directly military choices e.g. if you refused the Baron offer, it turns out he will basically help the raider and hinder your efforts, it is not just the impossibility of getting the best stuff from him, so you cannot use the 500 number you mentioned as a reference for everybdoy as quantity, nor you can use the eventual effectiveness of your troops as reference for everybody.

So, "I'll be able to better translate the troop points into numbers so we can better understand our chances." is off, because you cannot say it for everybody else, only for your scenario.

In reality, there is already a value that you can look at very easily with URM - cliftonhold_military.

In the worst case scenario, the outcome of the battle will be decided by simply using that value and whether it is above or below one or more thresholds derived from the strenght of the raiders.

"Worst case scenario", because till now Frozen Synapses has IMO done a good job of allowing the player to consider, and take decisions about, different aspects, so, hopefully the outcome of the battle will not depend just on that, and it will be possible to take or not other decisions in 0.32 that will also affect the outcome of the battle.
Well, my military points in Clifton are currently at 18, not counting Mondred's knights, because I will not let him have any influence in the Kingdom of Luna. I carried out an emergency forced recruitment to get the gold I needed to buy quality armor and weapons, and I also “persuaded” the baron to give me more troops, including, of course, the mercenaries who were impressed by Luna's strength.

I suppose that there can be no “we're not ready” situation and that Luna-Raven (the Dark Queen) cannot lose by definition, no matter what happens...at least, provided that the player who prefers this path chooses game decisions that reflect the Raven's way of thinking and behavior.

Therefore, with any of the available options, Raven is 100% guaranteed to win, although, ofc, the consequences of such a victory will certainly differ depending on whether we accepted, for example, the engagement proposal fake engagement or what armor we have purchased for our troops or whether we agreed to the sacrifice in the name of Raven or not.

In other words, the point is that pure Dom route, originally aimed at uncompromising victory in the game, simply does not imply the very concept of “defeat” in its meaning and design. The Dark Queen never loses to anyone. :cool: (imo)

When I talk about uncompromising victory, it implies the following:

1. The conquest of all lands under the King's protectorate, followed by the overthrow of the King himself, with the subsequent establishment of Dark Queen as the sole legitimate Ruler, harsh but fair.

2. The complete restoration of Luna-Raven's identity and the attainment of the true Divine power that was lost during centuries of sleep and oblivion.

3. The restoration of the Church of the Raven and the spread of its faith to all lands under our rule.

4. The creation of a harem of exquisite and lustful beauties, submissive to our will, ready to please their Mistress Luna-Raven, both on the Mortal and Divine Realms.

View attachment 5609494
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Obviously Luna is going to win, but I mean, how well will the kingdom fare? Will it be a landslide victory, or will we barely scrape by? Something like in “The Last Sovereign,” where throughout each chapter you prepare for a great battle, and if you're not sufficiently prepared, important characters and even your traveling companions can die, not to mention civilian casualties and damage to city structures. Imagine if Jirvah or Amabel died because we didn't do things right. It would be a devastating blow to Luna and to us, obviously.
 

Lanceire

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but as they said, they would loot everything
To prevent the invading army from doing exactly that, the common tactic was to bring everyone and everything into fortresses, and then burn the rest and poison the water supply. The Khan does not look like a good military leader if he relies only on that without a backup plan :D

(at this point, I would say, "Morrigan")
Interesting observation, the Morrigan indeed is a triple deity
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The updates may be short, but the game is still moving along nicely. A year ago, Luna had only just reached the new place.
Yes but unfortunately this game looks like the only one (with LFFG) with fem MC where you build your power base, enjoying relationships with lots of women and destroying misogynistic men. If anyone knows something similar please tell me, I looked around for a looooooooooong time, and it looks like Frozen Synapse work is really unique in that regard.
 

Stan5851

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Well, my military points in Clifton are currently at 18, not counting Mondred's knights, because I will not let him have any influence in the Kingdom of Luna. I carried out an emergency forced recruitment to get the gold I needed to buy quality armor and weapons, and I also “persuaded” the baron to give me more troops, including, of course, the mercenaries who were impressed by Luna's strength.
My Cliftonhold_military pts are currently at 21 and I don't have Mordred's knights as additional forces. (I listened to the developer's advice when he wrote that taking M.knights is a bad idea for Luna). (which, in general, was already clear, heh)

At the same time, I don't have the support of the baron, as you do, but I do have the support of Countess Boudicca, his aunt, which, apparently, does not mean any actual help in the form of troops. And in my opinion, that's not very fair, but oh well, it was my choice and I don't regret it, because potentially the Countess could be a much more useful ally than the Baron.

With all that said, I rejected the idea of forced recruitment and chose the option of offering higher salaries to all volunteer recruits who want to join the guard. The armor for the army was not the most expensive, just chainmail. And I, like you, have mercenaries who were impressed by Luna's strength.

And to this I can add a fake engagement, where Luna acquired a new sissy pet and the support of Count Beechwood in the form of additional troops. In my second Dom playthrough with the same decisions, but without the fake engagement, Cliftonhold's military points = 19.

But for now, I decided to make the engagement my main Dom playthrough and see where it leads. Perhaps the count's son will come in handy for blackmailing Beechwood or something like that. And of course, no sex for this sissy boy with a cage on his dick.:whistle::coffee:
Obviously Luna is going to win, but I mean, how well will the kingdom fare? Will it be a landslide victory, or will we barely scrape by? Something like in “The Last Sovereign,” where throughout each chapter you prepare for a great battle, and if you're not sufficiently prepared, important characters and even your traveling companions can die, not to mention civilian casualties and damage to city structures. Imagine if Jirvah or Amabel died because we didn't do things right. It would be a devastating blow to Luna and to us, obviously.
Sounds reasonable, but let's see how things actually turn out.
 
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ouch2020

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Well, my military points in Clifton are currently at 18, not counting Mondred's knights, because I will not let him have any influence in the Kingdom of Luna. I carried out an emergency forced recruitment to get the gold I needed to buy quality armor and weapons, and I also “persuaded” the baron to give me more troops, including, of course, the mercenaries who were impressed by Luna's strength.
Ehm, 33, despite having Luna lose to the head of the mercenaries or anyway have won and then got in an interesting situation at the tournment ;-) (done both) - but that does not impede the mercenaries to go to Cliftonhold, and I don't know if their morale has an impact (hope so, it would make it somehow more "realistic") but that is quite postive, and I have also taken Mordred Knights (when she took her decision, she did not know about other possible reinforcements down the road, and it felt like it could have made sense for her to do so to try to strengther her defenses, plus, it makes more interesting the after to see what will happen and how she will deal with Mordred and the knights) .
Despite the impression some of my comment gave, "my Luna" is at the moment with the "vengeful queen" option active - just as a real person, even more given her loss of memory and of followers/power, she is not a two-dimensional being, and has weaknesses and moments where she needs to take decisions following her varied human nature, and cannot just "god everything out".

Obviously Luna is going to win, but I mean, how well will the kingdom fare? Will it be a landslide victory, or will we barely scrape [...]
Luna and to us, obviously.
See my post about Luna winning or losing (well, you put a like, so, I guess you read it) - in reality, it is possible that there may be not only a two-ways, but a three-ways results of any battle ( full win, full lose, partial loss that can mean stuff like a siege ), however, I have no clue if Frozen Synapses is going that way, or keep it as a simple two-ways crossroad.
 
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ouch2020

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To prevent the invading army from doing exactly that, the common tactic was to bring everyone and everything into fortresses, and then burn the rest and poison the water supply.
Not forcibly.
The Russians used that kind of "scorched earth" technique much later than medieval period (safe the water poisoninig), taking advantage of their Winter and of the distances, but it was most often the incoming armies that would plunder for food for themselves, and burn everything left, especially if they needed to retreat (anyway, they would not have cultivate the land).

The historical reality about castles is much grimmer than what many movies and some tales, even inscribed as part of official history, make it.
Especially as the population increased, but even during most of the medieval period (aside maybe the occasional plagues, when the population shrank, and even there, to be seen), most medieval castles did not have the capability of hosting all the peasants spread in the land under the control of the noble or king for a long siege.
Most had a well, only very few a source, and that could take care of water, but the well could be enough only for a limited number of people.
It is true that a number of castles were also supposed to offer some protection to the peasants living close to it, but in general it was really only a subset of all the peasants under the castle's authority, or from raiders that would pass and go, not a prolonged siege without receiving external help for all the peasants living under the authority of the castle's noble (at least, unless the castle had a very small area under its formal control).
Especially peripheral castles like would be Cliftonhold, had relatively limited storage capability, and they did not have stuff like our fridges and freezer to keep food for a long time.
There are known cases of very long (years) sieges, but they were mostly fortresses or fortified cities, not castles, exactly because a years long siege requires either to have ways to sneak in and replenish reserves, or to have long reserves.
It is not by chance that many sieges ended either by starvation of the ones under siege, or by sicknesses that developed due to the concentration of people inside the fortified place much higher than normal for too long (when not directly fostered as a kind of biological/batteriological weapon ante litteram).



The Khan does not look like a good military leader if he relies only on that without a backup plan :D

In his case it can be granted attribute to excessive self-assurance/arrogance by the Khan, however, it is far from strange.

In business (and in life, when possible), it is good to have always a plan B, in services likes airlines they should have an entire alphabet :) of options, in space business they are supposed to have manuals detailing the procedure for any possible failure/problem, etc..
But miliitary typically have one attack plan.
They can have multiple scenarios covered in terms e.g. when defending, "if attack comes from direction A we do this, if attack comes from direction B we do that", when attacking, "if we attack A we go this way, if we attack B we go this way" (were A, B, etc. can be enemies, specific targets, or specific targets and enemies, though in theory the objective and outcome sought should be the starting point that can clarify whether it makes any sense to even plan any attack in the first place), and they try to e.g. foresee the possibilty a military unit may intervene to support their target enemy (if possible, neutralising them the moment they attack or even before, e.g. to create an attack and/or extraction corridor or avoid they can intervene later and create critical mass or otherwise interfere) but in general they do not create a whole list of "letters" for each case.
In general it is considered that the fog of war is very often too thick, and situations like when the USA gave the Ukrainians the Russian battle plans one month before the Russians attacked (it was revealed a few months after the start of the war) are rare.
They rely more on having e.g. reserves they can mobilise if needed, capability for rapid reaction and decisions, general preparations for anything (e.g. the siege of Alesia, where Caesar prepared an external kind of vallum considering the possibility of help coming for the ones under siege), or such a material advantage that the single operation cannot be at risk (well, boots on the ground change things, but never mind that) than on foreseing all kind of possibilities.
It is part of the reason for the emphasis in more modern times about stuff like satellites, radar, real-time communication and coordination (well, attempts at), to be able, at least in principle, to be aware of changes and coordinate actions and reaction rapidly.
In reality, even in life and business, as a general rule you cannot plan for, and foresee, everything, just trying to analyse before at least some risks, and manage them and others - but that, is a different subject.

The information the Khan has is limited, effectively, he has almost no information, despite what he believes.

It is not suprising he is relying on a "shock and awe" or "overwelming strenght" approach (and yes, I know where I took this phrases from, and it is not a mistake, that is the kind of approach you can take when you know, or believe, that there can be no substantial resistance already at the start and have a huge advantage in terms of quantity).
As far as he knows, Cliftonhold has only peasants armed with old stuff, the mercenaries, and it is half run down already - he does not know all the other things that Luna could do (and depending on the choices, has done) to reinforce its military.
That is, unless Luna has reject the Baron's offer, in that case, I think the Baron is practically sending information to the Khan, which means, the Khan could get an indication of what to expect..

Yes but unfortunately this game looks like the only one (with LFFG) with fem MC where you build your power base, enjoying relationships with lots of women and destroying misogynistic men. If anyone knows something similar please tell me, I looked around for a looooooooooong time, and it looks like Frozen Synapse work is really unique in that regard.
Well, that is one way to see and play the game, there are a number of others. But your way is as legitimate as any other.
 
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sunaboz

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Hopefully, they will give us the option of sheltering all our subjects behind the walls, which would be logical because we will need manpower to build the kingdom of Luna. (...)
And how would they feed them or shelter them? How would they deal with the tension that would surely arise (and more with each day). That would be utterly stupid. The way I see it we'll either face them immediately or let them roam free for a while and hit them when they will least expect it. The first option will diminish our military power, the second prosperity. Depending on our choices (how much money, military power and how big of a blow we will deal them during the incognito mission) the drawback might be minimal but I don't see a scenario where we could just take refugees in.
 
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Birdnman993

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Yesterday, I reviewed the latest events before the battle to see if I could improve anything without damaging morale too much, and I discovered that depending on how much money Luna has, there are more options for arming the soldiers. Obviously, this is only possible if you exploit prosperity and morale to the fullest or receive a loan from the pale coin, which makes me think that we shouldn't have too many problems if we prepare properly with a dominant Luna. There will surely be an option to kill more people to get more Buffos from the raven, but that's if we don't care about morale.
And how would they feed them or shelter them? How would they deal with the tension that would surely arise (and more with each day). That would be utterly stupid. The way I see it we'll either face them immediately or let them roam free for a while and hit them when they will least expect it. The first option will diminish our military power, the second prosperity. Depending on our choices (how much money, military power and how big of a blow we will deal them during the incognito mission) the drawback might be minimal but I don't see a scenario where we could just take refugees in.
In a war, you always need hands to help, treating the wounded, moving things for the soldiers. People can go a month without eating as long as they have water. Why let them die and be raped by bandits when they can be useful inside? Ideally, we shouldn't leave anything behind that bandits could use against us or kill them in front of the soldiers; that would severely damage the morale of our forces. In the worst case, we can use them as sacrifices to help in the siege, and if that leads to victory, I am sure the others will be grateful. If there was one thing people loved in those days, it was sacrificing someone for the greater good.
 
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4.60 star(s) 12 Votes