RPGM Maids & Masters [v0.19] [The Mithril Hourglass]

[Crevanille]

....My disdain for the 'jealous childhood friend'... who is my fucking maid... grows with every second her green eyes turn their gaze my way.

 

[Crevanille]

1) There's a reason the "Humor" tag is included. Personally, I think it makes him a better stand-in for the player, but that's just my opinion. If you're saying it stops working in favor of various scenarios after a certain point, what would you say that point is? Are there still scenarios where it does work, or does it stop working entirely? What changes do you suggest making, and how would you make those changes be implemented without random shifts in personality or character?

2) Sure, I could work towards or include something like that in a future update. I doubt the end result will look like the "MC should be a party member" position that you seem to be angling towards, but I'm open to exploring the general idea.

3) Correct. There's nuance to it than that (part of which has to do with the MC not being a very good Master; "non-verbal Orders" are a thing he can't do that's called out in the dialogue), but the basis of your assumption isn't wrong.

I feel like you're taking everything involved a little too literally.

I'm not here to argue semantics, so as far as my use of the word thrall goes, I'll stop at saying I disagree on the grounds of creative license.

As for the ledge, there's a section further in, in the central area of the Deep Wilds, that is in the same general area but on the other side of a bunch of trees. That's where you need to go. I can provide a visual reference if needed.
Since you say you've been everywhere, do you have any suggestions on how I could provide better direction to find the area in question? This is exactly the sort of thing I have trouble balancing the difficulty of, because the solution is as simple as "go there," but since I know the answer already I have trouble knowing how hidden it actually is.

1) I personally don't think he's the best stand in for me as the player bc, if I'm being honest, there are moments where he is stupid for no reason. I don't think it takes anything away from him since you clearly wanted the MC to be an idiot to give us a reason to explain things to us, but I'd have just been happier for a silent protag that lets me shape the personality vs having one set by default.

Just a difference in roleplaying wants/priorities in my MCs.
I mean, it shows up in the dialogue options for sure, but.... I think the real issue is how vague the hints are.
Like, for things like the mind maze, I don't think it would've been super obvious to hit cancel to get the right answer....
Overall, I do like the writing in the game, and aside from Melissa and Jenny's moments of being stupidly jealous that really does border on unlikable at times, namely for Melissa...
I just wish I felt more like the main character. I dunno. The issue with defining the MC too much is that I feel like it's not really my adventure... it's someone else's.... and I HATE that school of roleplaying. Again, just a personal gripe.
That and you've shown me the kind of heroines I want to avoid like the plague... and why I HATE 'top' girls and central heroines in a harem.

 

[hreserves]

I personally don't think he's the best stand in for me as the player bc, if I'm being honest, there are moments where he is stupid for no reason.

The difference in our perspectives coats this particular line in a level of irony that's frankly hilarious.

Normally I'd let sleeping dogs lie and not bother opening this can of worms, but you seem like you really want me to talk to you despite what you're saying not really giving me anything to talk to you about, and I've been having a rough go of it lately, so screw it. Here I am. Let's see if this goes anywhere other than directly downward.

Based on the events you're loosely referring to, you're just about to hit the end of the first act. Characters have character arcs. Those arcs aren't going to resolve in the first act of the story, and I feel like you know this, but you're still out here writing novels about one character in a roster of dozens and how much you hate them instead of continuing through to see if anything changes. Chill.
In hindsight, "chill" is particularly appropriate for this context, because there's a scene (multiple, really, that I'm sure you missed in your disdain-addled mindset) where Melissa is confronted about her jealousy (including one where she and Jenny bury the hatchet) that's accessible during the first Freeze, and if you've made it to the mind maze, you're past that part of the game.
And you're right - it's not your story. Your parents weren't murdered by a fire wizard, and you don't have magic that affects a certain class of people like The Voice out of Dune. It's a little silly to complain about not being able to self-insert because of the MC's actions when those things are going to be true of literally everyone. Personally, I hate flat, no-personality MCs, and since I'm the one writing the story, I'm going to give the MC a personality. If you're going to play my game(s), you're going to have to deal with that.

I think the only valid criticism I've seen you make is the "vague hints" comment. I fully admit I can be bad about that at times, and I've reworked entire sections of the game when necessary. The mind maze is kind of a bad example for that, though, because that's obtuse on purpose, and if you're quoting a post that's that old, I can't help but think you've scrolled past me saying that at least half a dozen times.
But then, a more recent puzzle was just "count from 1 to 7 but step on 4 twice" and that seemed to give people just as much trouble as "find a specific tile in this set of nearly two dozen maps" when some people have found the trophy in the mind maze with a hint as vague as "extra dialogue means you're on the right path" so I have no idea what to make of trying to think of my players as smart anymore.
What you might not have scrolled past is me asking for more details when someone says a puzzle doesn't make sense (or even pointed out a bug I missed fixing). I've also said this a good number of times, but since I'm the one making the game, I already know the answer to the puzzle. That makes it difficult to know when it isn't clear as to what you're supposed to do. The mind maze in particular won't be changing, but if you run into any other puzzles with a similar issue, leave a message about that instead of another half-dozen messages about how much you dislike a particular character.


Look, like what you like, hate what you hate, it ultimately doesn't matter to me. I'm making games that I want to play, and if that game isn't one that you want to play, that's fine. Not every game is for everyone.

Or go play Maids & Re-Masters. One of those versions of Melissa might gel with you a little better.

But if you really want to get into nitty-gritty details of why characters are the way they are, pledge to my Patreon and check my Community tab or join my Patron-only Discord, and maybe we can have a conversation there instead of you leaving your opinion everywhere and dipping without so much as making sure a towel is nearby.

 

[QQP_Purple]

And you're right - it's not your story.

That's the crux of it really. This isn't a blank character self insert story. It's the story of a particular character who has a particular personality. So I don't think that as a player I am supposed to self insert here at all. And that's a good thing in my book.

 

[Crevanille]

The difference in our perspectives coats this particular line in a level of irony that's frankly hilarious.

Normally I'd let sleeping dogs lie and not bother opening this can of worms, but you seem like you really want me to talk to you despite what you're saying not really giving me anything to talk to you about, and I've been having a rough go of it lately, so screw it. Here I am. Let's see if this goes anywhere other than directly downward.

Based on the events you're loosely referring to, you're just about to hit the end of the first act. Characters have character arcs. Those arcs aren't going to resolve in the first act of the story, and I feel like you know this, but you're still out here writing novels about one character in a roster of dozens and how much you hate them instead of continuing through to see if anything changes. Chill.
In hindsight, "chill" is particularly appropriate for this context, because there's a scene (multiple, really, that I'm sure you missed in your disdain-addled mindset) where Melissa is confronted about her jealousy (including one where she and Jenny bury the hatchet) that's accessible during the first Freeze, and if you've made it to the mind maze, you're past that part of the game.
And you're right - it's not your story. Your parents weren't murdered by a fire wizard, and you don't have magic that affects a certain class of people like The Voice out of Dune. It's a little silly to complain about not being able to self-insert because of the MC's actions when those things are going to be true of literally everyone. Personally, I hate flat, no-personality MCs, and since I'm the one writing the story, I'm going to give the MC a personality. If you're going to play my game(s), you're going to have to deal with that.

I think the only valid criticism I've seen you make is the "vague hints" comment. I fully admit I can be bad about that at times, and I've reworked entire sections of the game when necessary. The mind maze is kind of a bad example for that, though, because that's obtuse on purpose, and if you're quoting a post that's that old, I can't help but think you've scrolled past me saying that at least half a dozen times.
But then, a more recent puzzle was just "count from 1 to 7 but step on 4 twice" and that seemed to give people just as much trouble as "find a specific tile in this set of nearly two dozen maps" when some people have found the trophy in the mind maze with a hint as vague as "extra dialogue means you're on the right path" so I have no idea what to make of trying to think of my players as smart anymore.
What you might not have scrolled past is me asking for more details when someone says a puzzle doesn't make sense (or even pointed out a bug I missed fixing). I've also said this a good number of times, but since I'm the one making the game, I already know the answer to the puzzle. That makes it difficult to know when it isn't clear as to what you're supposed to do. The mind maze in particular won't be changing, but if you run into any other puzzles with a similar issue, leave a message about that instead of another half-dozen messages about how much you dislike a particular character.


Look, like what you like, hate what you hate, it ultimately doesn't matter to me. I'm making games that I want to play, and if that game isn't one that you want to play, that's fine. Not every game is for everyone.

Or go play Maids & Re-Masters. One of those versions of Melissa might gel with you a little better.

But if you really want to get into nitty-gritty details of why characters are the way they are, pledge to my Patreon and check my Community tab or join my Patron-only Discord, and maybe we can have a conversation there instead of you leaving your opinion everywhere and dipping without so much as making sure a towel is nearby.

I've seen the scenes you're talking about.
And no.
The jelous6 does keep popping up past that. So again. Melissa is NOT do8ng much to endear me to her atm. She's still clearly struggling with it.

As for the MC. I actually don't care if you give them personalities or not. Devs are all the same on that front. Their stories and all that. I'm just talking about what you've done to make him feel more a player stand in. My real point ab9ut that is that writing him the way you did, kind of a moron, works for that purpose.
No shit I have no say on what kind of character or story this is. But I'll damn well have views on it. It's that simple.

If I'm being honest. I'm having a good time with this game.
It may may not sound it because of what I clearly don't like, but it is a good game.
A little hint friendly than I'd like and with a heroine trope I abhor, but what you've made so far isn't bad.

It 'is' reaffirming what want or don't want in a game, but that's normal. Definitely things I'm keeping in mind when trying to design my own story.


Hints aside. I think my only actual complaint so far is I wish the symbol encounters in the various Wilds field maps could reset after you clear a map. It'd be nice to grind if I want considering how easy it is to just skip those areas after a first pass through.

Look, just you do you.
I'm not expecting you to change anything narratively bc it's your project.
But, the more 'I' enjoy something, the easier it is for 'me' to see what 'I' like or don't like and have an opinion because 'my' experience is what ultimately matters to me.


Ultimately, yes. I've come to hate the RPG school of going through 'other people's stories vs it being 'my st9ry'.

But that's more an aesthetic difference I'm not about to say is a deal breaker.
HC lets 'me' be the MC, TLS doesn't. I prefer the former over the latter and feel more personally invested, but still enjoy both games.

M&M sits comfortably in the middle, but definitely more TLS than HC.
It's good research. A decent enough game mechan8cally, but just not quite what 'I'm' looking for in that personal gold standard bc of those things I don't like or want.

Would or has that stopped me from singing the game's praises or recommending it to ppl? Not really, no.
Do 'I' enjoy this game? Yes.
Are there things I HATE in it it that'sless an attack against you, the dev, and more a difference in aesthetic narrative and genre preferences? Also yes.
Am I expecting anything more than just being allowed to vent? No.

Honestly, the only four things I am hoping for out of this project are that the game gets completed, it gets a decent harem ending, a less vague hints system, and the ability to grind field maps if I want. That's it really.

The rest is just differences in opinion I'm not expecting you, or anyone, to care that much about but will damn well voice them as I please when I please.

Oh, more relevant to you is a minor bug when you sleep in the master bedroom.
Well, less 'bug' but more 'spoiler'.
Katrina jumps my bones but.... it was literally before I did that section to recruit her.

Also glad that section FINALLY cleared up what happened to those 3 other Estates.
You have no clue how much that little mystery was nagging at me. Especially since I got Quinn and wasn't inclined to needlessly kill Servants if I didn't have to. Nice to get some closure on that even if it was bittersweet.
Honestly, that whole section was really good and definitely had some story drops I.... b9th exepected but were still mildly surprised by despite that.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

 

[Crevanille]

That's the crux of it really. This isn't a blank character self insert story. It's the story of a particular character who has a particular personality. So I don't think that as a player I am supposed to self insert here at all. And that's a good thing in my book.

Frankly, that's not something I ever expected from the game.
Most devs don't really even bother trying to do that. It's almost always 'someone else's story'.

My gripes are more about preference than whether I expect to see anything different or not.
If anything, the trend 'is' reaffirming why I enjoy one trend over the other.

No. My issue with Master is more that he can be kind of dumb for no real reason and that I don't find him particularly funny half the time. If anything, I keep thinkkng, what would 'I' say or do in any given situation because him, being the way he is annoys m9re than makes me laugh and because there 'are' moments where 'I' can decide how things go that I found myself way more invested in than.... his antics and general demeanor.

Frankly, I can easily self insert/roleplay as him just as he is with something as simple as letting me me rename him.

Both here and HC have similar vibes that way, if besides I find Master to be m9re irritating and annoying than funny only yo have glim0ses of a character I like and bits where 'I' can decide things about what he says/does that feel less 'him' and more 'me'.

I'm not expecting the dev to do or change anything there.
But I'm going to ha e views and opinions on what like/don't like and/o want/don'twant. That's it.

If anything, it's been REALLY helpful in designing the kind of RPG 'I' want and would want to play, gripes aside.
The more I enjoy something, the stronger an opinion I'll have, good or bad.

I just ignore or don't even bother with games I actually dislike for one reason or another.

 

[hreserves]

I'm glad you're enjoying the game, if nothing else.

I also understanding wanting to vent, but posting the same gripe in multiple places as many times as you have doesn't feel like venting (at least on my end), it feels like you're trying to complain me into doing something about it. If that's not your goal, it makes me wonder why you're going out of your way to bring it up so consistently. It's not feedback, it's just a statement of preference. You're not asking for help with your own story or insight as to why it's done. You're just hating on my work. You might see it as just a bit of harmless venting, but it's not fun for me to run through my socials and the only interactivity I see is the same person hating on the same thing yet again.

To address the actual feedback:

Hints aside. I think my only actual complaint so far is I wish the symbol encounters in the various Wilds field maps could reset after you clear a map. It'd be nice to grind if I want considering how easy it is to just skip those areas after a first pass through.

I know this is another preference thing, and I have considered making certain maps (like the Deep Wilds) "grindable" but a lot of the feedback I got early on was that combat wasn't that fun. Once I had reworked the combat system from a few different angles, the feedback I got was that the game felt grindy, and that it was a good thing that enemies didn't respawn.
I've also built the game in a way where if you avoid combat, you can still clear all of the mandatory fights. Some of them are hard as nails, or require a certain strategy when you're under-leveled, but it's possible.
I might add a unique area that'll let you actually grind through random encounters somewhere in the second half of Act 2, but for now it's going to stay mostly with things like optional challenge fights, such as the arena that's in v0.15.
Maybe I'll look at making more encounters that only appear after a certain point in the story to refresh maps that you have a reason to revisit.

Honestly, the only four things I am hoping for out of this project are that the game gets completed, it gets a decent harem ending, a less vague hints system, and the ability to grind field maps if I want. That's it really.

Despite life's best attempts, I'm doing everything I can to see this through, so completing the project I can do. And while I don't want to spoil the ending, I will say I only intend for there to be a single ending, and it won't involve losing any Maids. The grinding I addressed above.
But if you don't mind, could you expand on what you'd like to see for a less vague hint system?
Like I mentioned, some puzzles literally tell you exactly what to do and people still struggle with it, while others I thought would drive people insane and they breeze past.

Oh, more relevant to you is a minor bug when you sleep in the master bedroom.
Well, less 'bug' but more 'spoiler'.
Katrina jumps my bones but.... it was literally before I did that section to recruit her.

That definitely shouldn't happen. Looking at the event, the only time she should appear is if her affection is at 25 or higher (which obviously can't happen until after you recruit her, unless you modified your save). I'm not sure if it's something I've already fixed and I'm not seeing it in the changelog or if I'm looking in the wrong place.
Do you remember exactly what you did when it happened? That'll help me narrow down what needs fixing.

Also glad that section FINALLY cleared up what happened to those 3 other Estates.
You have no clue how much that little mystery was nagging at me. Especially since I got Quinn and wasn't inclined to needlessly kill Servants if I didn't have to. Nice to get some closure on that even if it was bittersweet.
Honestly, that whole section was really good and definitely had some story drops I.... b9th exepected but were still mildly surprised by despite that.

I'm glad the payoff worked out. I was originally planning to do that segment for the first Haunt, but I didn't have enough time to make everything in time for a Halloween release, so it got put off by a year.

The rest is just differences in opinion I'm not expecting you, or anyone, to care that much about

That's probably my problem. I do care. Probably a little more than I should.

 

[Crevanille]

I'm glad you're enjoying the game, if nothing else.

I also understanding wanting to vent, but posting the same gripe in multiple places as many times as you have doesn't feel like venting (at least on my end), it feels like you're trying to complain me into doing something about it. If that's not your goal, it makes me wonder why you're going out of your way to bring it up so consistently. It's not feedback, it's just a statement of preference. You're not asking for help with your own story or insight as to why it's done. You're just hating on my work. You might see it as just a bit of harmless venting, but it's not fun for me to run through my socials and the only interactivity I see is the same person hating on the same thing yet again.

To address the actual feedback:


I know this is another preference thing, and I have considered making certain maps (like the Deep Wilds) "grindable" but a lot of the feedback I got early on was that combat wasn't that fun. Once I had reworked the combat system from a few different angles, the feedback I got was that the game felt grindy, and that it was a good thing that enemies didn't respawn.
I've also built the game in a way where if you avoid combat, you can still clear all of the mandatory fights. Some of them are hard as nails, or require a certain strategy when you're under-leveled, but it's possible.
I might add a unique area that'll let you actually grind through random encounters somewhere in the second half of Act 2, but for now it's going to stay mostly with things like optional challenge fights, such as the arena that's in v0.15.
Maybe I'll look at making more encounters that only appear after a certain point in the story to refresh maps that you have a reason to revisit.


Despite life's best attempts, I'm doing everything I can to see this through, so completing the project I can do. And while I don't want to spoil the ending, I will say I only intend for there to be a single ending, and it won't involve losing any Maids. The grinding I addressed above.
But if you don't mind, could you expand on what you'd like to see for a less vague hint system?
Like I mentioned, some puzzles literally tell you exactly what to do and people still struggle with it, while others I thought would drive people insane and they breeze past.


That definitely shouldn't happen. Looking at the event, the only time she should appear is if her affection is at 25 or higher (which obviously can't happen until after you recruit her, unless you modified your save). I'm not sure if it's something I've already fixed and I'm not seeing it in the changelog or if I'm looking in the wrong place.
Do you remember exactly what you did when it happened? That'll help me narrow down what needs fixing.


I'm glad the payoff worked out. I was originally planning to do that segment for the first Haunt, but I didn't have enough time to make everything in time for a Halloween release, so it got put off by a year.


That's probably my problem. I do care. Probably a little more than I should.

1. It just sticks out. The things and hard to ignore bc it's sort of in your face and you can't do anything about it as a player and it irritates the ever loving shit out of me. It's hard to keep bottled up so I really am just venting.
I just see too many devs doing little things that annoy the shit out of me. Sort of adds a kind of... good natured but spite fueled fire to 'not' do those things.
As for what I'm getting out of it for what 'I'd' want in a game I'm attempting to make, this is all about scoping out what other ppl do, the decisions they'd make, does it appeal to 'me', would 'I' make those choices and be happy with them? that kind of stuff. So it's basically just a 'note taking phase' while I write out scenarios and plan out events for my first project, which is where I'm at. I won't be at the state to ask for help just yet. I'd spam questions out of you on discord, but not an option so I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
2. ....Too 'grindy', huh? Ugh. I hate modern gamer mindsets and preferences almost with a fiery passion. Almost violently so.
Considering how freaking easy it is to avoid fights already, and how few symbol encounters are present anyway, I just don't understand how anyone could call what you have so far 'too grindy' but whatever. Just one more thing to 'not' do myself.
3. Hm. I think it's an issue of how info dump heavy some of the context dialogue is, or that some hints aren't immediately apparent bc the player might have forgot/overlooked/not paid attention to a certain detail bc... well, your game is kinda lore dumpy. I personally don't mind it, but I think a 'hints' tab that gives players the cliffsnotes on command. Plus, there are some optional things you can do, like with the estates related to the whole mess with Katrina's vampire dad that can be easily missed if you don't keep them in mind the whole time and actively go out of your way to deal with them. Now, I don't think that'll be a huge issue for every player, but there is enough of a gap between when you can first access those questlines to when you can 'actually' resolve them... assuming you weren't an asshole and destroyed their headstones anyway. But, yeah. That's just my 2 cents on it. Maybe we're just dumb? Nah, but still. The game does expect you, the player to remember a lot without much ability to refresh your memory.
4. For the Katrina thing? I... just slept in the master bedroom after I got it fixed up. Like, right before I did the section that let me recruit her. That's it really. It only happened the one time though, I think.
5. Nah, I"m glad you care. Just don't take it as personally as some devs seem to I guess? I'm not calling your work trash. I like it and think it's good. Are there things I see that I borderline despise? yes. Are there things I like a lot? Yeah. Am I gonna call a game shit just because it has things I don't like? No. Am I gonna make my opinion known to the possible chagrin of my peers? Yeah, absolutely. It's just who I am and only really bother to do if I think something is actually worth my time. Me bitching at you over certain things is just a twisted kudos and sort of nod to wanting to see more... my gripes are less at you and more towards not seeing more of what 'I'd' want. It's kinda like trying to find the right wine and nobody having it, but there are way too many other brands that are similar but have one or two differences taht make my mouth scrunch up and just... irritate me. Not to the point of spitting it out so much as wonder why in the hell it's brewed that way despite logically knowing the answer. It's a good wine, but not quite to my very particular tastes.

 

[Crevanille]

Just curious.
But is there anything left to do with Bainca's brother?
He kinda... all but disappeared after the Amiara Estate events and Bianca mentioned something about feeling melancholic/homesick.

 

[hreserves]

I just see too many devs doing little things that annoy the shit out of me. Sort of adds a kind of... good natured but spite fueled fire to 'not' do those things.

I understand that, at least. That's basically what my April Fool's builds are - "malicious compliance" levels of implementing poor feedback and bad ideas from people that have no appreciation for why things are done a certain way instead of the way they want.
It's an April Fool's build, so it's obviously meant to be dumb fun, but I know at least one person got real pissy about one of the builds.

2. ....Too 'grindy', huh? Ugh. I hate modern gamer mindsets and preferences almost with a fiery passion. Almost violently so.
Considering how freaking easy it is to avoid fights already, and how few symbol encounters are present anyway, I just don't understand how anyone could call what you have so far 'too grindy' but whatever. Just one more thing to 'not' do myself.

If you want my honest opinion, I think it has to do with the prevalence and popularity of visual novels compared to "real" games (it's in quotes because I know VNs are still games and some are still plenty complicated and they all still take work to make) in the adult game space. When people come to a place like F95, they aren't usually looking for a 30+ hour RPG with puzzles and combat and exploration, they're looking for their kink in an easily digestible but still technically interactive medium. Even if I include keyboard rebind options so you can play one-handed, that's not necessarily the kind of game I'm making, which as far as most people are concerned, is another mark against me (and proper RPGs in general).
The number of times I've seen people complain about the game being grindy or that the maps are too big and too empty, it makes me think the issue is that they can't get to the next scene with a single click rather than what they're saying the issue is.

I think it's an issue of how info dump heavy some of the context dialogue is, or that some hints aren't immediately apparent bc the player might have forgot/overlooked/not paid attention to a certain detail bc... well, your game is kinda lore dumpy. I personally don't mind it, but I think a 'hints' tab that gives players the cliffsnotes on command. Plus, there are some optional things you can do, like with the estates related to the whole mess with Katrina's vampire dad that can be easily missed if you don't keep them in mind the whole time and actively go out of your way to deal with them. Now, I don't think that'll be a huge issue for every player, but there is enough of a gap between when you can first access those questlines to when you can 'actually' resolve them... assuming you weren't an asshole and destroyed their headstones anyway. But, yeah. That's just my 2 cents on it. Maybe we're just dumb? Nah, but still. The game does expect you, the player to remember a lot without much ability to refresh your memory.

Yeah, that's another thing I'm trying to work on as a writer. I tend to be verbose, and I like context. The important info does kinda get lost in the weeds. Especially when I tend to add words instead of removing them when I review what I've written.

Spoiler: For example:

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tl;dr, adding an entire hint system is going to be more work than it's worth given how far into development I am, and some puzzles won't support or won't really benefit from that kind of system. It's a lot easier for me (and usually more helpful for the player) to adjust individual problem points instead of adding game-wide infrastructure.

4. For the Katrina thing? I... just slept in the master bedroom after I got it fixed up. Like, right before I did the section that let me recruit her. That's it really. It only happened the one time though, I think.

Odd. The event shouldn't allow that to happen, and I'm not able to get it to happen on my end, even using a save from that point in the game.
I guess I'll chalk it up to something that I've already fixed for v0.15 or v0.15.1 and look into it again if someone else reports it. The next release is this Friday, so if that's the case, it won't be an issue for long.

Just curious.
But is there anything left to do with Bainca's brother?
He kinda... all but disappeared after the Amiara Estate events and Bianca mentioned something about feeling melancholic/homesick.

Yes. Though he just kinda hangs out on the docks being butthurt for the most part.

 

[Crevanille]

I understand that, at least. That's basically what my April Fool's builds are - "malicious compliance" levels of implementing poor feedback and bad ideas from people that have no appreciation for why things are done a certain way instead of the way they want.
It's an April Fool's build, so it's obviously meant to be dumb fun, but I know at least one person got real pissy about one of the builds.


If you want my honest opinion, I think it has to do with the prevalence and popularity of visual novels compared to "real" games (it's in quotes because I know VNs are still games and some are still plenty complicated and they all still take work to make) in the adult game space. When people come to a place like F95, they aren't usually looking for a 30+ hour RPG with puzzles and combat and exploration, they're looking for their kink in an easily digestible but still technically interactive medium. Even if I include keyboard rebind options so you can play one-handed, that's not necessarily the kind of game I'm making, which as far as most people are concerned, is another mark against me (and proper RPGs in general).
The number of times I've seen people complain about the game being grindy or that the maps are too big and too empty, it makes me think the issue is that they can't get to the next scene with a single click rather than what they're saying the issue is.


Yeah, that's another thing I'm trying to work on as a writer. I tend to be verbose, and I like context. The important info does kinda get lost in the weeds. Especially when I tend to add words instead of removing them when I review what I've written.

Spoiler: For example:

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tl;dr, adding an entire hint system is going to be more work than it's worth given how far into development I am, and some puzzles won't support or won't really benefit from that kind of system. It's a lot easier for me (and usually more helpful for the player) to adjust individual problem points instead of adding game-wide infrastructure.


Odd. The event shouldn't allow that to happen, and I'm not able to get it to happen on my end, even using a save from that point in the game.
I guess I'll chalk it up to something that I've already fixed for v0.15 or v0.15.1 and look into it again if someone else reports it. The next release is this Friday, so if that's the case, it won't be an issue for long.


Yes. Though he just kinda hangs out on the docks being butthurt for the most part.

1. I... actually haven't played the April Fool's builds. Like, not even once. I kind of avoided them bc, if I'm being honest, I found that I'm SUPER picky about what I find funny and tend not to like comedy (the genre) as much as other ppl seem to. But, I don't understand getting pissy about an interactive April Fool's joke. It's kinda in the description....

2. Yeah. That's true too, but it's something I see in the broader gaming community too. Even with more mainstream SFW games and IPs, ppl whine about grind even there's barely any real need to grind....
Now, I admit there's a bit og gamer boomer bias having rown up playing real grindfest nightmares like old DQ, FF and other countless RPGs. Hell, dungeon crawlers are all about the grind. Well, any loot grinder really... like PSO. But yeah, I just find the whole modern mindset loathsome... Bah! I'm fine with being an crotchety old, 30 something with strong opinion and near disdain for the youth and their lazy gamer ways!

3. Nah. I get being wordy. I can be that way myself, and tend to catch myself doing the opposite... as in trimming the fat more than adding to sections. I do appreciate the detail in context in the books and stuff, and it's not usually an issue in general character interaction, but with puzzles? ...It can be hard to remember all the little details or to sift out the most important details.

4. Yeah. Like I said. It only happened the one time.

5. ....Did Griselda want two girls? Cuz, I mean 'Beverly'? I mean, the dood is an ass but... I kinda do get not wanting to be called by that name.

Speaking of Bianca (and other characters more generally) ... I really, really like Bianca. Everything about her kinda ticks off my personal checkboxes. Well, So does Odette actually. And Alice. Well, the big boobs thing not so much, but I really like her personality. She... reminds me of a puppy... in the same kinda way Odette reminds me of a cat. Also, her backstory was quite the surprise. It really showed how morally gray your setting is and shows off some real talent for making a player think about it. Like that convo with Auda where she kinda confronts us about it over booze. Kinda showed some insight I could personally resonate with bc it's pretty much why I would choose to keep going with the revenge plot.
I... do have mixed feelings with Setri, but I have something of a personal bias against parents who, understandable reasons or not, abandon their family bc of their own hangups. Like, I really do get it, but it's hard not to be reminded of some real life bitter memories. Nothing against you or your work and is kinda like the whole Melissa hate thing, it's just something that I have a strong view on, only it hit a little closer to home. But, that whole quest was... pretty hard. Handled with care though.

Oh, speaking of quests, So, during the second Freeze, I found Willow interesting. Not only did it clear up some things with Bianca, but she kinda didn't have a quest to track when I hung out with her but she had quite a few events if you just... do what I do and wander around all over the place. It was interesting. Also, I hope to resolve that thing between us, her and Bianca. I also relaly liked that whole thing about 'why' Bianca acted the way she did. Ngl, I did find it kinda left field when it originally happened, but then the reveal was like... 'Oh! Well... that, makes sense.' Also, it kinda made me like her even more.
Speaking of plot points I hope get addressed at some point, if only bc the ppl involved are at very interesting places in their lives at present, is the question of whether or not Bianca and Katrina will talk about their own relationship. Actually, is Katrina aware of it? I get that Bianca isn't. I'm also at the point where I'm going to address some of Ella's past with her first Master and, between her panic attack and the way that Folk/Servant village is being described... I REALLY hope I can screw someone over guilt free soon.....
Anyway, overall, I am really loving most of the harem here and choosing to love just one is dumb. Can't do it. Won't do it. Some are less my taste aesthetically, but hey. You do some good writing and personality is a big turn on.

 

[Crevanille]

So, I'm legit stuck.
I'm trying to tackle Read's Hold. Y'know, the one that requires you to follow 'dance steps' to solve?
I can handle steps 1 through 4 on either side just fine, but the directions on how to tackle the 5th step onwards confuse me and I get stuck on where to go after that. I'm serious getting annoyed at myself for not being able to figure it out and even more sick of getting shocked for it. So yeah, a little help please and thanks. And no, rereading the steps isn't really making it any clearer for me.

I feel like it's something super simple, but I just can't exactly tell what it is I'm screwing up....

 

[hreserves]

That's true too, but it's something I see in the broader gaming community too. Even with more mainstream SFW games and IPs, ppl whine about grind even there's barely any real need to grind....

And yet games like Monster Hunter, which are literally built to be grindfests, are lauded as some of the best games in a given year.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...Did Griselda want two girls? Cuz, I mean 'Beverly'? I mean, the dood is an ass but... I kinda do get not wanting to be called by that name.

I've actually never had anyone ask about this before, so I've never gotten to talk about naming conventions. Sorry in advance if this turns into a wall of text.
Master/Estate names are generational. I'm too lazy to go look up my specific structure right now, but basically, the family name (in this case, Amaira) only changes if a new Estate is established independent of the family name (like what Viridius is trying to do); it otherwise stays the same according to the family's ancestral Estate. Since the curse of inheritance (if you believe in that sort of thing) tends to kill parents before they can become grandparents, the first three names rotate as a way of remembering your own lineage. So, Garrison, his third name, comes from his grandfather on the Amaira side of his parentage. Collier was his great-grandfather, and Beverly would've been his great-great-grandfather's name.
If Beverly had a son, his son's name should be (spoilering this out for reasons) Collier Garrison Marius Amaira (and his son would be Garrison Marius Beverly Amaira, and so on). But since Beverly doesn't actually know who his father is, he could choose his son's third name himself. This is why it's a social faux pas to go by anything besides your first name; it's seen as cutting out pieces of your past that you should be proud of. It indicates shame, or that there was a break in the family line, or some other piece of sordid history that the Master in question is trying to bury. In Beverly's case, it displays a lack of confidence in his family line and a lack of understanding of his name's history - but that's a little much to get into with how much else is going on in the story, and having him come off as upset because it sounds feminine communicates roughly the same idea without drowning anyone in context they didn't ask for.
Related, this is why people give the MC grief every time he introduces himself. There is a layer of general mistrust for not giving his "real name" and him appearing rude by insisting he be referred to as his title, but him not having a name beyond "Master" (especially when there's no "Master" in any history books or lineage records) makes it seem like he somehow managed to attune himself to an ancestral headstone without actually being descended from an Estate. That implies all the bastards that some Masters leave behind could result in Folk or Servants that could one day just lay claim to an Estate and break all the rules that Masters think they understand about Theurgy and there's nothing any of them could do to stop it. Then add on the political implications of Archibald being put in debt at the start of the game by such a person.
Frankly, if he weren't a dunce, Commorance would probably be entirely on fire by the time you finish meeting Viridius.
But then, he'd probably also be actively hunted and the story likely wouldn't have made it past Griselda, so...

Speaking of Bianca (and other characters more generally) ... I really, really like Bianca.

Well, that's a nice change of pace.
And I don't mean from your usual griping about Melissa. If you go back far enough, there's a couple of people who literally wanted her (and Willow's) head on a pike for arranging that bit in the dungeon. Those comments are probably still here, but I have no idea how many pages back they are.
Granted, that section did get some reasonably heavy rewrites during the remaster because I wasn't especially happy with it, but still. Willow got some love (because who doesn't like a big titty goth girl?), but I've never heard anyone say they like Bianca that I can remember.

Not to gloss over the rest, but still glossing over it anyway - I just try to write people. For better and for worse. Even characters like Alice (who is about as "basic bimbo" as you can get) and Ivy (whose entire character is basically just "horny"), it doesn't feel right to not give them some level of depth.

I... do have mixed feelings with Setri, but I have something of a personal bias against parents who, understandable reasons or not, abandon their family bc of their own hangups. Like, I really do get it, but it's hard not to be reminded of some real life bitter memories. Nothing against you or your work and is kinda like the whole Melissa hate thing, it's just something that I have a strong view on, only it hit a little closer to home. But, that whole quest was... pretty hard. Handled with care though.

Setri is admittedly kind of an irredeemable sad sack. That might seem a bit harsh, but sometimes things happen and it just ruins the person those things happened to. I could go on about how I wanted to have an emotional gut punch at the start of the game to try and hook people while still holding myself to a decent standard instead of cheap emotional beats, or wax poetic about 'writing what you know' and how Setri serves as a reminder to myself to not let life make me that person, but I think the summary is enough said on those fronts.
I'm mostly just glad the emotion I put in is what came back out and it resonated with people instead of feeling cheap or hacky.

during the second Freeze, I found Willow interesting. Not only did it clear up some things with Bianca, but she kinda didn't have a quest to track when I hung out with her but she had quite a few events if you just... do what I do and wander around all over the place. It was interesting.

Willow doesn't have a quest to track because you completed it during the first Freeze. =P
Everyone is like that, though. Not everyone has special interactions with Cumhaill, but everyone has their own bonus objective to complete, and everyone has a unique chat option with every other Maid, as well as some other minor events, like interacting with Ella's snowman or the stuffed bear in the guest house.

Speaking of plot points I hope get addressed at some point, if only bc the ppl involved are at very interesting places in their lives at present, is the question of whether or not Bianca and Katrina will talk about their own relationship. Actually, is Katrina aware of it?

No one knows except Griselda, Marius, and Master (not even the player if you don't pay enough attention or have the trophies to do the 'page 0 skip' and don't need to do any reading). Griselda is actually under Contract not to say anything (which is a detail I couldn't find a good place to fit into all that reading), and Marius isn't really in a position to have much of a conversation with anyone.
I did decide to make it a separate update so I'd have a release this month, but a lot of character stuff will get resolved through affection quests during Act 2. I'd initially wanted to include those as the necessary areas opened up, but - without getting too deep into it - there are only so many hours in a day, and stress is a bitch. v0.15.2 is going to be getting everyone's first affection quest implemented (except those that will require v0.16 content; hopefully I'll either figure out a way to do without or find time to get them in with the story update), and I'm planning on three per Maid. I'm not sure when I'll get the second and third waves done, but I want to get them all in the game before I start on Act 3.

And as reference for the curious, v0.15 is the halfway point on Act 2. There's three, maybe four story updates left before a bunch of big reveals start happening and Act 3 kicks off.

So, I'm legit stuck.
I'm trying to tackle Read's Hold. Y'know, the one that requires you to follow 'dance steps' to solve?

Oh, hey, it's that "count from 1 to 7 but step on 4 twice" thing I mentioned before.
I already answered you on itch, but there's nothing tricky to it. If the instructions tell you to bring your feet together, or bring your left to your right, or however I have it worded, you just step on that panel twice. If you're really struggling with it, it might help to write out "1 2 3 4 4 5 6 7" or whatever the actual steps are.

 

[Crevanille]

And yet games like Monster Hunter, which are literally built to be grindfests, are lauded as some of the best games in a given year.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I've actually never had anyone ask about this before, so I've never gotten to talk about naming conventions. Sorry in advance if this turns into a wall of text.
Master/Estate names are generational. I'm too lazy to go look up my specific structure right now, but basically, the family name (in this case, Amaira) only changes if a new Estate is established independent of the family name (like what Viridius is trying to do); it otherwise stays the same according to the family's ancestral Estate. Since the curse of inheritance (if you believe in that sort of thing) tends to kill parents before they can become grandparents, the first three names rotate as a way of remembering your own lineage. So, Garrison, his third name, comes from his grandfather on the Amaira side of his parentage. Collier was his great-grandfather, and Beverly would've been his great-great-grandfather's name.
If Beverly had a son, his son's name should be (spoilering this out for reasons) Collier Garrison Marius Amaira (and his son would be Garrison Marius Beverly Amaira, and so on). But since Beverly doesn't actually know who his father is, he could choose his son's third name himself. This is why it's a social faux pas to go by anything besides your first name; it's seen as cutting out pieces of your past that you should be proud of. It indicates shame, or that there was a break in the family line, or some other piece of sordid history that the Master in question is trying to bury. In Beverly's case, it displays a lack of confidence in his family line and a lack of understanding of his name's history - but that's a little much to get into with how much else is going on in the story, and having him come off as upset because it sounds feminine communicates roughly the same idea without drowning anyone in context they didn't ask for.
Related, this is why people give the MC grief every time he introduces himself. There is a layer of general mistrust for not giving his "real name" and him appearing rude by insisting he be referred to as his title, but him not having a name beyond "Master" (especially when there's no "Master" in any history books or lineage records) makes it seem like he somehow managed to attune himself to an ancestral headstone without actually being descended from an Estate. That implies all the bastards that some Masters leave behind could result in Folk or Servants that could one day just lay claim to an Estate and break all the rules that Masters think they understand about Theurgy and there's nothing any of them could do to stop it. Then add on the political implications of Archibald being put in debt at the start of the game by such a person.
Frankly, if he weren't a dunce, Commorance would probably be entirely on fire by the time you finish meeting Viridius.
But then, he'd probably also be actively hunted and the story likely wouldn't have made it past Griselda, so...


Well, that's a nice change of pace.
And I don't mean from your usual griping about Melissa. If you go back far enough, there's a couple of people who literally wanted her (and Willow's) head on a pike for arranging that bit in the dungeon. Those comments are probably still here, but I have no idea how many pages back they are.
Granted, that section did get some reasonably heavy rewrites during the remaster because I wasn't especially happy with it, but still. Willow got some love (because who doesn't like a big titty goth girl?), but I've never heard anyone say they like Bianca that I can remember.

Not to gloss over the rest, but still glossing over it anyway - I just try to write people. For better and for worse. Even characters like Alice (who is about as "basic bimbo" as you can get) and Ivy (whose entire character is basically just "horny"), it doesn't feel right to not give them some level of depth.


Setri is admittedly kind of an irredeemable sad sack. That might seem a bit harsh, but sometimes things happen and it just ruins the person those things happened to. I could go on about how I wanted to have an emotional gut punch at the start of the game to try and hook people while still holding myself to a decent standard instead of cheap emotional beats, or wax poetic about 'writing what you know' and how Setri serves as a reminder to myself to not let life make me that person, but I think the summary is enough said on those fronts.
I'm mostly just glad the emotion I put in is what came back out and it resonated with people instead of feeling cheap or hacky.


Willow doesn't have a quest to track because you completed it during the first Freeze. =P
Everyone is like that, though. Not everyone has special interactions with Cumhaill, but everyone has their own bonus objective to complete, and everyone has a unique chat option with every other Maid, as well as some other minor events, like interacting with Ella's snowman or the stuffed bear in the guest house.


No one knows except Griselda, Marius, and Master (not even the player if you don't pay enough attention or have the trophies to do the 'page 0 skip' and don't need to do any reading). Griselda is actually under Contract not to say anything (which is a detail I couldn't find a good place to fit into all that reading), and Marius isn't really in a position to have much of a conversation with anyone.
I did decide to make it a separate update so I'd have a release this month, but a lot of character stuff will get resolved through affection quests during Act 2. I'd initially wanted to include those as the necessary areas opened up, but - without getting too deep into it - there are only so many hours in a day, and stress is a bitch. v0.15.2 is going to be getting everyone's first affection quest implemented (except those that will require v0.16 content; hopefully I'll either figure out a way to do without or find time to get them in with the story update), and I'm planning on three per Maid. I'm not sure when I'll get the second and third waves done, but I want to get them all in the game before I start on Act 3.

And as reference for the curious, v0.15 is the halfway point on Act 2. There's three, maybe four story updates left before a bunch of big reveals start happening and Act 3 kicks off.


Oh, hey, it's that "count from 1 to 7 but step on 4 twice" thing I mentioned before.
I already answered you on itch, but there's nothing tricky to it. If the instructions tell you to bring your feet together, or bring your left to your right, or however I have it worded, you just step on that panel twice. If you're really struggling with it, it might help to write out "1 2 3 4 4 5 6 7" or whatever the actual steps are.

1. Y'know. I could never get into MH, but yes. Loot grinder for sure. I'm more of a GE fan myself, but mostly bc hot waifu partners, more emphasis on story, and I can have an actual party and not just some stupid cat thing....! Ugh.
Plus, I think the mindset and vibe are different with loot grinders over other RPGs, dungeon crawlers aside since they... are known to be hyper old school and/or brutally tough by design. Like, they tend to be faster paced, emphasize multiplayer, and the benefits of gear hunting are more easily accessible to players vs traditional level grinds. You don't really feel/notice you're grinding in those games so I'm not really surprised. I guess, you don't feel like you're grinding.
2. The lore behind the naming conventions thing is... actually pretty cool. And makes sense. I kinda wish I got that instead of wondering why the guy was named Berverly.... But now that I know, I guess it's cool. If nothing else, I won't see it as a girl's name now. Hahaha! But, yeah, I like the thought behind the naming conventions. Adds a nice layer of depth to Master culture... and why the MC seemed so interested in if ppl knew about his name. Er, his family name? I think it was his family name anyway.
3. Well, I get why what Bianca did would trigger some ppl, and I've seen it done in other games so I've learned to expect at least one scene like that from at least one heroine at some point, optional or not. But, for me... the whole thing just seemed random as hell and didn't really make sense to me until the whole thing got explained in her Freeze event. Then the lightbulb went off and I was like... 'Oh! Well taht makes sense!'. Considering how OOC that moment was compared to literally the rest of her appearances and behavior, sans the intro where it all started, I just liked her personality and vibes. It just worked. Not the whole rape thing. I didn't like that. But... like with everything else I don't like and may or may not comment on, I just figured you had your reasons and waited to see if it would change. Quicker payoff there for me on that front for that instance. It literally took me getting halfway across a continent and over a mountain or two to feel less annoyed by Melissa seeing her mellow the hell out.
But yeah, your characters have something extra in them that keeps 'em fresh and or super likable.
4. I think the fact that finding and bringing Malia home to her parents being optional kept the whole thing from feeling cheap or forced for the sake of drama. Like, it made it feel like me wandering around, going out my way to wander around, paid off... though not exactly in the best way. Like, bittersweet. Honestly? very TLS move. Something as small as wandering off the beaten path turned out to be this whole huge thing and I was like... damn. Gut punch.
And yeah, sometimes shit happens and ppl don't, can't, get over it. I've seen it.... and some of its logical conclusions more than once in my life... none of them very happily.... But, I dunno. It's never any easier seeing, game or not.... You did good there. Even the most minor of NPCs feel like they matter and I liked that. A HUGE plus for you actually, at least to me. Well, the fact that you can bang her and get her pregnant again... Well... uh, that really is grey af. Now, I'm not judging, bc again, I've seen that kinda shit before.... but... yeha. Never thought I'd see it in a game that looks like an SNES game and get the heavy vibes that AAA games spend literal millions of dollars on and still might fuck up or fail at delivering.
5. Oh yeah! I totally forgot I did Willow's quest back in the first Freeze! Yeah, those two are pretty much a set so my mind defaulted to that. And yeah. It was fun talking to ppl with other maids following you around. seeing what they say to each other was great! Like, I spent WAY more time doing that than I feel I should have, ngl. No regrets though! I hope we get more of that!
6. Yeah. I remember what Marius wrote in his notes before 'rescuing' Katrina. And yes! I can't wait to see them affection quests! I live for that shit! But really, I do hope Katrina and Bianca have a nice heart to heart at some point.
7. FREAKING THANK YOU! Man, I really do feel stupid. Yeah, that whole 'right, left' thing would not have clicked for me to step on the space twice... Ugh. But again, thx for that!

All in all, more things to make note of.

 

[hreserves]

Adds a nice layer of depth to Master culture... and why the MC seemed so interested in if ppl knew about his name. Er, his family name? I think it was his family name anyway.

Yup. His family name is actually mentioned a couple of times, but it's easy to miss and forget.
There's also a reason he doesn't know his own name despite knowing his uncle's name (and his uncle, among a few others, obviously knowing his parents' names), but getting too deep into that would be starting to spoil some of those Act 3 reveals. For now, the short version is that he left to reclaim his Estate without learning his name's history.

Considering how OOC that moment was compared to literally the rest of her appearances and behavior, sans the intro where it all started, I just liked her personality and vibes.

Fun fact, Bianca's meant to be a yandere. Once I started properly writing her, she just ended up really heavy on the "dere" end.

Even the most minor of NPCs feel like they matter and I liked that. A HUGE plus for you actually, at least to me. Well, the fact that you can bang her and get her pregnant again... Well... uh, that really is grey af. Now, I'm not judging, bc again, I've seen that kinda shit before.... but... yeha. Never thought I'd see it in a game that looks like an SNES game and get the heavy vibes that AAA games spend literal millions of dollars on and still might fuck up or fail at delivering.

I've tried to give everyone in the game their own story. Some of them are boring, and in the case of places like Clannestad, they might be kinda repetitive, but you can point to even the most irrelevant NPC and I could give you at least a vague outline of what their major life events were. The information almost never comes up, and will likely never be relevant to the story, but it helps inform how characters speak and act, and those little details are what add depth.
The reason just about everything you walk up to has an interaction comes from the same place (and because I'm tired of games putting interesting things in front of me that aren't meant to be interesting).
As far as Setri in particular goes, I do want to give her some kind of healing arc, but given what she represents, there aren't a lot of ways to do that in a satisfactory way that the player would actually see. So, this is where she ended up.

It was fun talking to ppl with other maids following you around. seeing what they say to each other was great! Like, I spent WAY more time doing that than I feel I should have, ngl. No regrets though! I hope we get more of that!

If you haven't unlocked it yet, the love shack is similar content. All of the Maids and mothers (once they're pregnant) can be brought there for some time to chat away from the story. Plus more lewds inside the shack, but the fireside chats are the relevant bit.

FREAKING THANK YOU! Man, I really do feel stupid. Yeah, that whole 'right, left' thing would not have clicked for me to step on the space twice... Ugh. But again, thx for that!

Puzzle design is hard.
The original wording was "bring your feet together," but it seemed like a lot of people struggled with that, so I took a suggestion to make the hints more like actual dance instructions, and that seems better for most people. Still boggles my mind that people can get through the mind maze and still struggle with something so comparatively simple, but it is what it is.
You're welcome!

 

[Crevanille]

Yup. His family name is actually mentioned a couple of times, but it's easy to miss and forget.
There's also a reason he doesn't know his own name despite knowing his uncle's name (and his uncle, among a few others, obviously knowing his parents' names), but getting too deep into that would be starting to spoil some of those Act 3 reveals. For now, the short version is that he left to reclaim his Estate without learning his name's history.


Fun fact, Bianca's meant to be a yandere. Once I started properly writing her, she just ended up really heavy on the "dere" end.


I've tried to give everyone in the game their own story. Some of them are boring, and in the case of places like Clannestad, they might be kinda repetitive, but you can point to even the most irrelevant NPC and I could give you at least a vague outline of what their major life events were. The information almost never comes up, and will likely never be relevant to the story, but it helps inform how characters speak and act, and those little details are what add depth.
The reason just about everything you walk up to has an interaction comes from the same place (and because I'm tired of games putting interesting things in front of me that aren't meant to be interesting).
As far as Setri in particular goes, I do want to give her some kind of healing arc, but given what she represents, there aren't a lot of ways to do that in a satisfactory way that the player would actually see. So, this is where she ended up.


If you haven't unlocked it yet, the love shack is similar content. All of the Maids and mothers (once they're pregnant) can be brought there for some time to chat away from the story. Plus more lewds inside the shack, but the fireside chats are the relevant bit.


Puzzle design is hard.
The original wording was "bring your feet together," but it seemed like a lot of people struggled with that, so I took a suggestion to make the hints more like actual dance instructions, and that seems better for most people. Still boggles my mind that people can get through the mind maze and still struggle with something so comparatively simple, but it is what it is.
You're welcome!

1. Yeah. I liked that bit of mystery. And it was vague enough to keep it from feeling forced or obligatory. Let me imagine things. Which is what I want more of in RPGs.
2. I can see it, but good yanderes are... very easily super dere almost by default. You just the right trigger to bring out the yan part. And those yanderes are the scariest bc they really will do just about anything for their LI.... I can think of a few examples like the White Queen. from Blood//Sign. She's probably the most extreme example of that that ever though, bc she's... literally God. Point is... Bianca is win and I like her.
3. Yeah. Setri is... not gonna get the happiest ending. The best anyone is gonna get, especially if she does get knocked up by us, is... a super bittersweet one. You really 'can't' give her, or her broken family a happy one. Well, the dad and Malia's brother have a shot and I really do want them to have a happier ending if for no other reason than bc they don't deserve this any more than Setri does even if some of the drama is kinda her fault for not coping as well... as harsh as that sounds.
As for the rest of the world. Yeah, I like the extra mile you put into every NPCs' backstory. They feel alive enough that even one liners don't feel too forced. Though, again, I think a good bit of hat comes from the the whole 'I can fill in the blanks' bit.
Also yes! I LOVE interacting with stuff in RPGs! i... still have the bad habit of clicking the most random stuff HOPING TO ALL TAHT IS HOLY that I can get a reaction... This game made me happy on that front too.
4. I've... been busy with the game and kinda put the Love Shack on the back burner... Working on it now... Ugh.
5. The mind maze tripped me up bc I just didn't think to cancel out of the convo... on purpose like that. It just felt super counterintuitive.

 

[hreserves]

Let me imagine things. Which is what I want more of in RPGs.

Also yes! I LOVE interacting with stuff in RPGs! i... still have the bad habit of clicking the most random stuff HOPING TO ALL TAHT IS HOLY that I can get a reaction...

Same. A lot of modern games seem to assume everyone has tiktok brain and can't pay attention for more than 30 seconds. Either everything is resolved nearly immediately, or if it's meant to be a mystery, you get nothing to go on until they're ready to solve the whole mystery for you. The FF7 remake (specifically Remake; I haven't played Rebirth) comes to mind for that. I didn't hate the game, but the Kingdom Hearts nonsense that got shoved in makes zero sense, plus a bunch of other bits that only make sense if you played the original. There's even parts that yell at you for not moving forward despite dropping you in a big room that can be explored. It gets to a point of feeling like they don't want me to play the game, just mindlessly consume.
It's kinda led to the death of the RPG. Especially the JRPG, which even a lot of Japanese devs think comes with negative connotation. The closest we get these days is soulslikes, which are more action-adventure with RPG elements. I want more games like (to mention a recent example) Eiyuden Chronicle. But since almost no one is making them... here I am.

Yeah. Setri is... not gonna get the happiest ending. The best anyone is gonna get, especially if she does get knocked up by us, is... a super bittersweet one. You really 'can't' give her, or her broken family a happy one. Well, the dad and Malia's brother have a shot and I really do want them to have a happier ending if for no other reason than bc they don't deserve this any more than Setri does even if some of the drama is kinda her fault for not coping as well... as harsh as that sounds.

That's another part of the metaphor. Macgill won't have his mother and Seigust won't have his wife, but they both still have the rest of the village. It's still awful to have to go through, but they have their support system. Ultimately, they'll be fine.
Setri's outcome depends entirely on the player interacting with her.

I've... been busy with the game and kinda put the Love Shack on the back burner... Working on it now... Ugh.

It's optional content, so good news, it's not going anywhere. I try to make things as repeatable/accessible as possible, so if you miss something like that, you can turn back and get it later.
There's only a handful of things you can't, and even then, most of them are seasonal and become accessible when the season comes back or have an alternate way of accessing them.

The mind maze tripped me up bc I just didn't think to cancel out of the convo... on purpose like that. It just felt super counterintuitive.

That's kinda what I'm getting at, though. The mind maze is meant to be obtuse and counterintuitive. Almost all of the other puzzles in the game boil down to things that are simple enough to trial-and-error your way through without much frustration, or are basically reading comprehension tests. I think recruiting Quinn is the only other time I tried to make it any harder than that.
Yet some puzzles people get completely stumped by, and I typically have no idea why.
That's part of why feedback is so valuable to me - it helps me understand why and find ways to get rid of unintentional pain points.

 

[Crevanille]

Same. A lot of modern games seem to assume everyone has tiktok brain and can't pay attention for more than 30 seconds. Either everything is resolved nearly immediately, or if it's meant to be a mystery, you get nothing to go on until they're ready to solve the whole mystery for you. The FF7 remake (specifically Remake; I haven't played Rebirth) comes to mind for that. I didn't hate the game, but the Kingdom Hearts nonsense that got shoved in makes zero sense, plus a bunch of other bits that only make sense if you played the original. There's even parts that yell at you for not moving forward despite dropping you in a big room that can be explored. It gets to a point of feeling like they don't want me to play the game, just mindlessly consume.
It's kinda led to the death of the RPG. Especially the JRPG, which even a lot of Japanese devs think comes with negative connotation. The closest we get these days is soulslikes, which are more action-adventure with RPG elements. I want more games like (to mention a recent example) Eiyuden Chronicle. But since almost no one is making them... here I am.


That's another part of the metaphor. Macgill won't have his mother and Seigust won't have his wife, but they both still have the rest of the village. It's still awful to have to go through, but they have their support system. Ultimately, they'll be fine.
Setri's outcome depends entirely on the player interacting with her.


It's optional content, so good news, it's not going anywhere. I try to make things as repeatable/accessible as possible, so if you miss something like that, you can turn back and get it later.
There's only a handful of things you can't, and even then, most of them are seasonal and become accessible when the season comes back or have an alternate way of accessing them.


That's kinda what I'm getting at, though. The mind maze is meant to be obtuse and counterintuitive. Almost all of the other puzzles in the game boil down to things that are simple enough to trial-and-error your way through without much frustration, or are basically reading comprehension tests. I think recruiting Quinn is the only other time I tried to make it any harder than that.
Yet some puzzles people get completely stumped by, and I typically have no idea why.
That's part of why feedback is so valuable to me - it helps me understand why and find ways to get rid of unintentional pain points.

1. Yeah. I HATE how railroaded I felt during the experience. Like, I played and loved the original, and I did like the new characterizations in Remake, but overall... I felt like there wasn't any reason to keep me going bc the path was laid out for me. Yeah, I could make small detours, but it's not the same as like, being able to literally walk off the beaten path and find a dead kid you can bring back home and trigger this whole chain of events that can potentially witness a family fall apart due to grief and/or knock up sweet Village Girl A.... and have all of that be optional and a sweet(?) prize for just exploring. A major complaint of the mainstream echoed near ad naseam, games lack the desire to risk. One reason I barely play a lot of mainstream stuff outside of some really niche titles and/or legit faithful remakes of older classics.
2. Yeah. I just want at least somebody come out of this better off for it. Everyone preferably, even if that means pulling a dick move to do it... Ugh. I really do like the moral complexity of something utterly so optional...Good shit.
3. I made some time for it. And, good shit. I did like the fireside chats.
4. For the dance steps thing, the wording tripped me up at the end more than it being a super hard puzzle... Like, I figured it was like a dance and followed the steps but... my mind just couldn't register 'step on tile X ' twice... Ugh.
Also, going out of your way to make counterintuitive puzzles is fine sparingly, but damn if it ain't annoying... I do like the 'aha!' moment they can give you when you do finally figure them out, but they aren't as satisfyingly addictive as other kinda moments. That's just me though.

 

[hreserves]

I made some time for it. And, good shit. I did like the fireside chats.

I figured you would. Plenty more coming.
If I can convince myself to take the time to write it instead of developing something else before I hit post-game updates after the story is over, I plan on adding a couple of different variants to randomly happen after the first time instead of the first time being different and it always being the same after the second time for each character. No idea when I'm going to manage that, though.

For the dance steps thing, the wording tripped me up at the end more than it being a super hard puzzle... Like, I figured it was like a dance and followed the steps but... my mind just couldn't register 'step on tile X ' twice... Ugh.
Also, going out of your way to make counterintuitive puzzles is fine sparingly, but damn if it ain't annoying... I do like the 'aha!' moment they can give you when you do finally figure them out, but they aren't as satisfyingly addictive as other kinda moments. That's just me though.

Right. And I'm not saying you're dumb for not figuring it out despite the solution being simple, I'm saying puzzle design is difficult because it's functionally impossible to guess the instructions are going to be a sticking point. Even knowing that it's a sticking point for a number of people, I have no idea how to adjust the puzzle to get that to be less of an issue aside from updating the wording (which was already done once, meaning doing it again likely isn't going to help).
Kinda like I know it rides a pretty fine line between "Aha!" and "fucking finally" when you run into... any puzzle, really. Even if you get it right away, if the solution is 15 steps, it's going to feel boring and tedious. If it's crazy difficult, you're almost always going to get some level of satisfaction from solving it, but then it becomes a sort of race to see if I can design it in a way that makes you feel smarter more than you feel frustrated for having to deal with it. Some frustration is largely unavoidable, because not everyone is the sort of person that can sit through something like The Talos Principle and have fun the entire time.
Which is why the mind maze in particular is a one-off. Not that there'll never be any more difficult puzzles, but nothing else will be deliberately counterintuitive and mandatory to get through the story like that.

 

[Crevanille]

I figured you would. Plenty more coming.
If I can convince myself to take the time to write it instead of developing something else before I hit post-game updates after the story is over, I plan on adding a couple of different variants to randomly happen after the first time instead of the first time being different and it always being the same after the second time for each character. No idea when I'm going to manage that, though.


Right. And I'm not saying you're dumb for not figuring it out despite the solution being simple, I'm saying puzzle design is difficult because it's functionally impossible to guess the instructions are going to be a sticking point. Even knowing that it's a sticking point for a number of people, I have no idea how to adjust the puzzle to get that to be less of an issue aside from updating the wording (which was already done once, meaning doing it again likely isn't going to help).
Kinda like I know it rides a pretty fine line between "Aha!" and "fucking finally" when you run into... any puzzle, really. Even if you get it right away, if the solution is 15 steps, it's going to feel boring and tedious. If it's crazy difficult, you're almost always going to get some level of satisfaction from solving it, but then it becomes a sort of race to see if I can design it in a way that makes you feel smarter more than you feel frustrated for having to deal with it. Some frustration is largely unavoidable, because not everyone is the sort of person that can sit through something like The Talos Principle and have fun the entire time.
Which is why the mind maze in particular is a one-off. Not that there'll never be any more difficult puzzles, but nothing else will be deliberately counterintuitive and mandatory to get through the story like that.

So, an interesting point that came up in...er, this is Act 2, right? Western Commorance? Anyway, I was wondering now that it came up... So, if Masters can have unique Theurgy of their own, as in literal Master class Theurgy like what that futa duke has.... Do we have one too? I mean, I remember a few comments about some oddities about us being able to do things that are just... not normal for Masters, like with Willow and Bianca, or the fact that we can control more Servants per engagement than is typically the norm. I'm not really sure if the second one is really a unique skill thing or just us having uber chad energy but the first definitely piqued my interest.
Now, it might be bc we supposedly come from an old ass family but... yeah.
Well, this is me less asking and more just thinking out loud.