Yeah. My argument against premature judgement based on perceived plot holes is that you can't know if there really are plot holes until the work is finished and it didn't resolve the plot holes.
You're absolutely right, but (and I'll think you'll agree with this based on our past discussions) there have been plot points and dialogue that are very hard to reconcile. An explanation is certainly possible, especially if supernatural aspects do get introduced, but it's just as easily possible to be mistakes in writing due to how long this has gone on. After all, it's not like Melissa's other works haven't ever suffered light/poor characterization/character motivations, etc.
I liked where it ended up (I still tear up every time I rewatch the last episode and the Roslin & Adama theme starts playing), but I feel like the way they got there was pretty messy. Most of the last season made it clear that neither the cylons nor the writers actually had a plan, despite the opposite being stated in the opening of every episode.
Still one of my favorite shows of all time.
Yup, I think in hindsight it was clear that many plot points were being made up as it went along (I mean, if a cast member is able to become one of the Final 5 by just complaining about their lack of importance, I think that says something, lol), or kept purposefully ambiguous so that basically anything could fit. BSG had some great characters, awesome space ship battles, and some decent story arcs but was also clearly not a planned story the way something like Babylon 5 was.
For me, my favorite scene/payoff to a character arc in the finale was Gaius confessing that he knew how to farm. This is a character that reinvented himself because he was ashamed and disgusted by his background. That was defined by the lie of his intelligence, his loyalties, and having spent the majority of the show (and his life) keeping everyone away. Whether or not he deserved it, his growth meant that he was able to make peace of with who he was. It's a small moment but my favorite from the finale.
For me, the final season was perfect. However, I do understand the valid complaints that some fans had. Similar to the final season of Angel, which I also felt was perfect, both shows kind of rushed into things and changed directions without doing the expected amount of buildup. Both shows went from a slow and steady pace from the previous seasons to a much more rapid pace with what felt like multiple seasons of stories being condensed down to just one. Which is what actually happened behind the scenes for both shows. Good examples of how things can end great for some fans yet terrible for others.
I like the premise of how Angel ended, and the individual parts were great. Illyria's "Would you like me to lie to you now" and "I wish to do more violence", and Lindsey's end was poetic. But for as much as it tried to wrap up story lines, it was basically never going to succeed since Whedon hadn't expected the show to be canceled, leaving a lot of the potential story arcs unfinished. Although, obviously I'm biased as a huge Fred/Amy Acker fan and was particularly put off that such an interesting character arc that started in Season 5 was cut short of a true payoff.
There are always going to be fans that have a hard time enjoying a finale because it represents the end of what they love. So you have a really uphill battle on how to deliver that sendoff that feels "big" enough to compensate for the end of that series. I know that a lot of people weren't happy with it, but I loved the ending of Quantum Leap as a kid.
On the other hand, sometimes finales are where the sins of the writers catch up to them. Maybe they didn't plan ahead, so all those little teases meant nothing and they're just slapping together that superficially ties up loose ends (Lost). Maybe the show fails to give the various main characters "what they deserve" (Dexter). Maybe the writers didn't think through the really unfortunate and gross implications of their ending, and stuck with it despite having to lengthen the story due to the show being renewed (How I Met Your Mother).
This is getting to be long enough where "flashback" seems the wrong term, more like "foreverback" I'm getting curious as to how much this story will ultimately go into the future. A few days, months?
What doesn't help is we're getting flashbacks, inside of flashbacks, inside of a dream sequence. Don't forget, that even after this flashback between Elena and Marina is over, we still need to go back and wrap up the conversation and see how Elena/Andrew reacts to "Aphrodite" "returning" this memory. I mean, there's a real strong chance with this last bit of dialogue, we're going back into a flash back to see what Filip did.
If I'm being uncharitable, I'd argue this is padding to draw out the story for Patreon. If I'm more charitable, I think Melissa HAD to do this because she's basically written herself into a situation where no one is trustworthy so the readers are second guessing every little thing. All of this could have been super simplified into a few lines of dialogue where Marina just explained everything in the first level of the flashbacks. But the audience can't trust her, so we're having to go deeper and actually see it play out in the second layer of flashbacks so that we can "trust" that what she says is true.
Of course, that'll go all out the window if we're later told that the flashbacks were only how Marina were describing them and not necessarily how things actually played out. Or if Aphrodite does the same to Andrew/Elena about this hospital trip. At which point I think the vein in my forehead would burst,
For me, the biggest takeaway from this latest part (taking Marina at her word, and also interpreting all this clarification as Melissa trying to nail down and refute certain theories): I think Marina is telling the truth and she/Melissa are justifying and trying to demonstrate that Marina is loyal to Andrew/Elena, and that she's using James, not conspiring with him (this doesn't rule out James using Marina for his own plot).
I'll generally agree that we're not really advancing the actual plot though. It's quite a bit of padding, and there's a lot of redundant panels and dialogue. And I sense that whatever the actual twist is will be revealed in the present, rather than the past. We're getting a bit more motivations for some of these players, although conspicuously absent is Nikos.
