Moderate tips for female PC/NCP protagonist. Along with covering porn tropes. (+Futa bonus)

[The Rogue Trader]

Dah... Existing expectations are a difficult issue. I mean, sure when you send your baby project out in the big cold wide world, you'll meet people that see the world as you do and other people that are just plain assholes.
Not much we can do about that.

This is one reason for me to keep feeling the call of my older project, the modern one. Not being commercial, there I can do whatever I want: the target audience is filtered by unpopular tags and so if someone starts sprouting sexist nonsense I can just calmly show them the door.
But the matter's not so easy with my current project. It's not truly my project. I inherited it from the original dev so I feel that I have to make it work as it was intended. There are other people working on it (at least they should be working, but let's not digress), so I have obligations over them too.
Behind its complex plot, it's still a game about a guy conquering girls. Not a pokemon kind of harem game, but I still have to deal with the fact that the "nobody steals my chicks" guys are in my target audience. I can't just tell them "Oh, yes, the noblewoman and her handmaid/bodyguard are liberated and empowered female characters, so they share their men and bed each other whenever they feel it. If you don't like it, your loss." I need to invent some reasonable plot to firmly keep the household in the hands of the player.
It doesn't matter if their attitude is unreasonable, antiquated and illogic: I still need to make them happy. I'm already going to kick them hard in the groin at several points (no harem, no happy ending and worse), so I'll have to be pliable on everything else.
If I wanted to change society through art, besides needing a lot more talent than I have, porn is possibly the worst genre that I could pick.

Back to the players: as you say (we basically agree 100% on pretty much everything), they don't want female NPCs that are capable and autonomous and which don't need to grovel at the MC's feet. They want waifus. But no, not the braindead, cardboard, overused stereotypes, the kind of porn women that you speak about.
Sure, making the female chars unchallenging is always a win, but now the apemen got more refined tastes too. They want deep female characters whose dedication and love will feel both earned and rewarding. Preferably untouched or nearly so, as they would feel demeaned if all they were able to catch was some hoe that "would jump on any dick". It shouldn't surprise anybody: girls don't exactly like low-hanging fruits, either, and for the same reasons.
I could digress on social standing and partners as status symbols and simian ethology, but I won't.

What I will say is that I don't want to get negative reviews saying that my LIs are bland. I would feel demeaned as a writer. I might fail, as I don't delude myself that I'm some great author, but not for lack of trying.
My reasoning being that if I make bland LIs, some people will still come because of the pretty pictures (assuming I'll ever manage to get the pretty pictures) while others will react in disgust and boredom, but if I make them deep and interesting nobody is really going to complain about that.

So we are back to the original issue. Writing female characters that will feel authentic, rewarding and preferably non-challenging.
And your three lines from before work like a charm as questions that I can ask my characters and see how they react.
Society expects that men take and women are taken? Good, let's see... Yes: the bored noblewoman expects to be taken. On the contrary, the greedy tavern wench actively pursues the MC. And the MC has to gain the trust of the rugged female bruiser, so that they will slowly grow close despite some belligerancy... and if he tries to act prince charming with her, she will be one that will do the taking.

Still trying to pin down what would make a woman feel 'too much like a man' for me, but it's not coming to me,

Not crazy about sharing my notes before they're ready (that means a lot of rounds of rewriting before and after being moved to the script), but I guess not many will find them in this thread:

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There's a long assed convo between the MC and the thug woman that I'm pretty confident is at risk of being labelled "a man with a pussy". I haven't yet put the 'who' tags to the dialogue lines, but if you can make out who says what you'll see the issue (not that I can do anything to prevent it, her being what she is) and if you can't... well I guess that reinforces my point

P.S.
The stoic damsel has been kidnapped and forced to be the "molly" of a crime lord. She hates every single moment of her life but he threatens her aging father so she has no escape route. She is the most feminine girl in town, she has the best dresses, a perfect look and every luxury a woman can dream of, and she couldn't care less. She is sad, gloomy, lonely, doesn't speak a word and no male of the gang would come within arm's length of her, as their jealous boss would cut them into small pieces. If it sounds familiar, it's because it should.
But why the players should care? Why they should want to steal her from the crime lord? The girl will turn up capable and resourceful if freed, but in her current state she's room decor.
I've to find a hole in my own rules to show that she isn't just a silent, inexpressive, beautiful doll.
In "Yojimbo" and "Fistful of dollars" it's easy: the protagonist is touched because she has been stolen from her own man and her child. It doesn't matter if she isn't a character but a plot device: how can somebody that retains some humanity resist freeing her? But sadly that's not a route that would work for a LI in a porn game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Just some words on this question, because it summarize an important point:

My aggressive women of power (physical power, political power) are just male characters with pussies?

When you write a character, the gender isn't the only thing you've to take into consideration, and the answer to this question can perfectly be "yes, and it's fine".

What Ophanim said later regarding men, who have their expectation shaped by society, also apply for women. If she's really hungry for power, and aggressive in her way to take it, a woman can perfectly present herself to the world as a male with a pussy. Not because it's what she is but because, when looking around, males is what she see in position of power. Therefore, she starts to mimic them, (not so wrongly) believing that they got into their position because of the way they act. And the longer she'll pass acting like a man, the more she will forget how a woman usually act.

Your personality (as something global, therefore from what you like to the way you act) isn't defined by your sole gender, it's also shaped by your life and by everyone who interact with you. A boy a bit more sensible that the other that would pass his youth hearing that he act like a girl, or being asked to stop acting like one, have equal chances to end with a "girly personality" once adult ("since it's how they see me, it's how I'll be"), than being extra macho ("I'll prove them that they are wrong").
When Ophanim write that "men are active, women are passive. Men take, women are taken from. Men think, women feel. Men fuck, women are fucked. Men are stoic, women are expressive. Sex makes men powerful, and women weak", it's both right and wrong. As cliché as it can looks, it's true, but "men" and "women" don't point to the gender of the character, they point to their personality. And there's not a single human being that have a personality matching at 100% their gender. We are all a mix of both, some tending more on the opposite side, others being just a bit "tainted" by it.

Everything then will depend on the context of the scene you've to write. A woman that is usually shy and never take the initiative, can suddenly turn into a great leader when facing a catastrophe. She lost a part of her near family when she was young and, seeing what is happening, she remember what she felt, and still feel, about this. She'll then take the lead because she don't want others to feel the same, and therefore will do everything she can to save as much people as possible.
At the opposite, a man facing the same context, can be paralyzed if, for a reason or another, he buried his feelings. They come back in his mind, and he struggle to face them. While there's a woman telling everyone what they should do, he's here, witnessing the catastrophe, not knowing what to do, nor even how to do it.
It's why I always say that a writer need to know, to a given extend, his characters' past. It's this, more than the personality you want to give them, that will define how you've to write them.

In the end, I think that "is my male character manly enough", and "is my female character girly enough" are the wrong questions.
Do you know this joke, a boy is asking his father what "being a man" mean, and face to the answer he receive, he conclude by saying that, later, he want to be a man... like his mother. There's truth in it. What is important is not for your character to be "manly/girly enough", but to feel like it when it matters the most. And, depending of the character, and the story, it's not necessarily during the lewd scenes.

Karlsson's Gambit, is a good example for this. The whole story is based on a gender swap, women commands, men are used. But despite this, and their strength, cruelty, or coldness, the women stay clearly women, not just because of their body. The perfect example is Juliette, a pure sadist. She torture, she (make) kill, people are nothing more than toys that distract her, and she deserve everything because she's a woman of power.
If you limit her personality to this, she's a male with a pussy. But if you look a bit deeper, she's a spoiled princess, and all her sadism come from this. Displease her, and she'll torture you to death for the exact same reason, and in the exact same intent, than a teenage girl would throw a tantrum because her favorite dress is not washed yet, and she wanted to wear it for tonight party.
And, as I said, the way her sadism is expressed also make her girly ; she's sadistic out of boredom. If a man say, "distract me", you'll think about the movie cliché, some king who want to be aroused. But when it's a woman who say it, it's more the girl bully cliché that come to mind ; "I'm bored, make me less bored". She take pleasure out of this sadism, but a, hmm, "mental pleasure", not a sexual one. And this is clearly a female trait ; males are physical, females are mental.


Edit: few really too obvious typo ; do not write when you're in a hurry

 

[Kattlarv]

Well, this was a nice crimis surprise to come home to.

I think you covered most stuff very well here. I can prolly practice on articulating more. Though it's tricky to find a middle ground of "explaining to a toddler" and "speaking latin".

I can chime in on a few things.
I think I mentioned this one but: The "tomboy" is lowkey being erased. As, women can't really be tomboys anymore. They are either girly girls. Or they aren't "women". Like: If tomboy nowadays, it MUST mean she is some part of the rainbow maffia.

And, the whole "afraid to write a man with a vagina", that was explained well above. But it also falls onto the genital roles. If you have a well endowed girl that enjoys sex... that instantly breaks two porn laws. This is where it does get messy. As you CAN technically write any character as anything. But this is where the self-fulfilling (or rather: self-sabotaging) prophecy comes in. As basically the ONLY people that get butthurt about "men with vaginas", are the people that want to strictly enforce genital roles. They are the same people that argue that ex: The lead in Terminator or Alien are "just men". (Fun fact: One of the marines is a trans woman) Or how Samus is "a man". On the other side, you have characters like the "I am a lesbian, 12 times per episode" one from Dr. Who.
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It's why futa as said: Can 100 % replace men without any issue. And vice versa. But NEITHER can replace a woman. As both are exclusively male coded. Like Oph said: "It's wrong". It's why I advocate for the "R63 test". As, while oversimplified: IF you can genderbend them: It means you have created a PC. Not an NPC. (In most genres.) A female PC can be as simple as "I want to get dopamine rushes.". Assuming she isn't just a passive "insert penis for pleasuring". Again, oversimplified but: It kinda boils down to "Do they want to get their pussy pleasured? Or their/a dick pleasured?". After that; You can add angsty backstory reasons for it, or whatever the tone of the game is.
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There's not really any inherent, 100 % female things. Yes, there are many VERY likely things. But, it's also a game. And not everything has to be mentioned. Like, period pain is almost guaranteed. But like... that would likely not be a fun game mechanic or dialogue. And: Unless a fetish: Not relevant for the sex scenes. And it's unlikely to be relevant whether or not she learned how to pee standing...

And like you said: If you have a target audience you are very restricted to that. I think I recall that game you were talking about... that or I discussed a similar one. Which is VERY likely xD
If going with a more "equal" female. You can still have one that doesn't whore around. BUT, such a woman would likely question "Why would I get with a slut like you?", which, can have dozens of reasons. Porn or not.
As said with the genital roles: That's a "pro" for men. You're not allowed to shame that. ONLY on women.
While realistically: Most women would call a man out for being a slut, not praise it. And that is rarely done in porn. As it breaks a rule to do so.

It's kind of the classic "wants their cake, but fuck it too".
They want girls that aren't just princess peach... but they also want ALL girls to be princess peach.
Basically picking hard, and then getting offended that the game doesn't pull punches.
To use the trust Titans again: The basic monkeys wants all girls to be Starfire, eager UwU sluts with no sexual needs.
The "fancy monkeys" wants Raven to be moody goth girl and Jinx to be a sassy, dommy little shit. BUT: They CANNOT put up ANY "resistance". Like: If Jinx demands you suck her off before she allows you to do sexy time: Instant rage. And if she then doesn't give you instant, unlimited throatfuck access: Instant rage. They want the thing and they want it noooow! And ALL of the thing! Girls are supposed to be taken from. Not given to.

To me: It's also hard to get to a "too manly" point for a woman. Like... unless the character actively WANTS to become a man... I'd say you are pretty good. And like, just side point: But women can orgasm from certain workouts. Due to the vagina being a muscle and all that shit. So... that is an optional horny angle for a "beefy" woman. It could literally be a kink for them. And just slap on a "pride" personality on them, in that they are cocky about their vaginal muscles. That is at least one thing that I feel lacking with several types of female characters: They just... never have any interest in their own bodies. While male PC's tend to talk AND have their dick talked about constantly.

As a whole: Society shapes our "gender". Ie: Personality.
I'm fairly certain you have seen those kinda cliche "Men are, Women are" lists. (Ex: If a woman is loud, she is nagging, bitching. If a man is loud. He is assertive, a leader.")
And gender+genital roles are just that. Being X is male. Being Y is female. (pun intended).
Recent studies have shown that teen girls are hornier than teen boys. But we HEAVILY discourage girls from being "uncouth". While boys are encouraged as "boys will be boys". (In general. There's ofc exceptions.) But you can find this with ANY behaviour.
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Porn is no different. It's what I'm trying to badly explain xD
It's basically boils down to "Is my character too much of a male PC? I still want her to be female NPC enough as to not threaten male players.". It's mainly why I focus on the character, genre wise.
Like RoR. You are SUPPOSED to be weak, threatened. But... people associate men with strong, power fantasy. So: They just slap those attributes onto them. And completely fuck up the formula. Likewise how they remove sex drive and agency for women in "fuck around" games. It's the same as how you can't play resident evil like doom. If you swapped those mechanics around... shit would hit the fan real quick. But as it's porn: ... people tend to stare blanky and be confused. Since: "The penis is doing penis. And the vagina is vagina. That SHOULD work!" without understanding WHY they should do those things.

 

[DreamingAway]

NPC's are exclusively female. And you are often given control of a random male during sex scenes. Often, following this/these males more than the NPC.

(.sic)

There's good reasons you never see a male or futa NPC. It would go against the status quo among others.

But this isn't true though..
I'm not sure I understand..

 

[Kattlarv]

But this isn't true though..
I'm not sure I understand..

It is. (In general. Not 100.)

What part of it confuses you?

 

[DreamingAway]

It is. (In general. Not 100.)

What part of it confuses you?

If I search F95 for games featuring female protagonists and rank them by weighted rating, almost all the top games heavily feature the opposite gender (males) as the majority of NPC's.

Am I missing something?

 

[The Rogue Trader]

If I search F95 for games featuring female protagonists and rank them by weighted rating, almost all the top games heavily feature the opposite gender (males) as the majority of NPC's.

Am I missing something?

I guess from the rest of the quoted line that she's arguing that in the case of hetero female protagonist games, the player is supposed to identify with the guy doing the fucking ("a random male") instead of the gal being fucked.
Still not true, but at least a defensible opinion.

(A full reply to AON, Ophanim and Kattlarv posts is in the works)

 

[Kattlarv]

If I search F95 for games featuring female protagonists and rank them by weighted rating, almost all the top games heavily feature the opposite gender (males) as the majority of NPC's.

Am I missing something?

Ah, the "NPC" was a topic of a conversation.
It refers to a player character, acting more an an non-player character.
A bit like being the "sidekick" in many games. You can't walk more than X away from the main character. You can't control the camera. You can't activate key items, etc. You are basically irrelevant to the story. (The "player 2" in many games.)

The "Female NPC" just walks around and is interacted upon. Like, she has no agency or drive. She is instructed where to go, and does whatever she is told. And the story often focuses on the men around her.

Like: You can easily find a game where you play a submissive, obedient girl and don't have a SINGLE orgasm in the entire game.
But you CANNOT find a game where you play a submissive, obedient guy and don't have a SINGLE orgasm in the entire game.

Likewise: You can practically ONLY find games where you play a dominant male, with imposing genitals that cums THE most, or is the ONLY one to cum.
But you CANNOT find a game where you play a dominant female, with imposing genitals that cums THE most or is the ONLY one to cum.
(At least of every single game I've been made aware of.)

It references that you can't find a game where the male is the "NPC sidekick". But there are plenty of games where the female is the "NPC sidekick". They don't play as a typical player character. And as said: In quite many cases, they make it extra clear by for example: If you have a "waggle your mouse to control character" segment. The MALE is the one that moves when you waggle the mouse. You control the male. In the male's PoV. The game mechanics are about the male. Or simpler: The cum bar counts towards HIS orgasm. (Even in non-whore games.)
Or how as a male PC: You generally always unlock scenes with the PC. While female NPC's can often unlock scenes with some guy and another girl. Where you magically see what happens. Or is peeking. (But it's not seen as cucking, because you're not a man or a PC.)

 

[DreamingAway]

Like: You can easily find a game where you play a submissive, obedient girl and don't have a SINGLE orgasm in the entire game.
But you CANNOT find a game where you play a submissive, obedient guy and don't have a SINGLE orgasm in the entire game.

Likewise: You can practically ONLY find games where you play a dominant male, with imposing genitals that cums THE most, or is the ONLY one to cum.
But you CANNOT find a game where you play a dominant female, with imposing genitals that cums THE most or is the ONLY one to cum.
(At least of every single game I've been made aware of.)

This feels like a 'very' gender specific use-case that doesn't scale well.. if I deleted a few words from those examples, suddenly the amount of games that offer these, widens significantly.

You've sort of couched your examples to the most extremes.

Can I be a dominant female in a large amount of games? Yes.
Can I be a dominant female "that cums the most"? Still Yes...

Can I be a dominant female "that cums the most" and has.. "IMPOSING GENITALS" - ..

Well no.. but how large of an audience is there for that very specific example you just made up? Most of these games are incentivized to cast a large net and appeal to the lowest common denominator..

I also can think of quite a few (relatively speaking) games where the male protagonist doesn't "cum the most" or have "imposing genitals".


EDIT

One further point. Is cumming and genitals all that matter for differentiating a NPC from a PC? What about emotional development, story telling , etc.
All your examples feel highly focused on gender roles in sex.

 

[The Rogue Trader]

When you write a character, the gender isn't the only thing you've to take into consideration, and the answer to this question can perfectly be "yes, and it's fine".
What Ophanim said later regarding men, who have their expectation shaped by society, also apply for women. If she's really hungry for power, and aggressive in her way to take it, a woman can perfectly present herself to the world as a male with a pussy.

Yes: we know that very well, but, well, that’s not my problem.
Modern history gave us many women governing countries and megacorporations that were said to “have the balls”. It’s only recently (XXI century) that we started seeing women in similar positions that showed the typical traits that are stereotypically associated with femininity, like being cooperative, understanding and emphatic, while still being recognized as perfectly capable and decisive leaders.
Sure, I can say, “oh, you know, this woman of power acts, thinks and feels exactly like a man, but it’s because she’s expected to”, but having a justification in-universe won’t make the character any less uninspired and banal.

To keep delving into this topic, which seems to have raised everyone's interest despite being only one of various examples of how a character could have a cardboard personality, I believe that the core of the problem is that while culture, social standing, past experiences all contribute to shaping a person’s character, I feel that sex/gender has an underlying influence that is shared by all females and all males regardless of any other factor.
Hormones don’t care much about that kind of stuff, after all.
And feeling that my characters work well is the whole point, not talking myself into accepting whatever comes out of my keyboard.

As I keep stressing for no particular reason (that I can fathom), I don't have the same issue when writing an AVN in a modern setting (nor when I'm not writing AVNs at all... but writing regular novels feels like cheating in comparison).
With a modern setting I can lean onto real-world examples, people that I know and whose voice I can steal. De Niro went working in a steel mill for months before shooting the “Deer Hunter” to feel what his character had to feel (although I’m not getting paid enough for that shit).
But it’s infinitely harder in a different setting, where I did not live and whose examples came to me filtered (usually by white upper-class males) be it European middle ages or Ancient Rome or whatever, let alone something completely unfathomable like XIX century rural China or the Bronze Age.
Even in the case of a fantasy setting created by me, it’s still coming to me not as an experience I can reach intuitively and infuse in my characters to give them their own voice, but as an analytical summary by a middle-aged, middle-class European male, and this is the crux of my issue.

Everything then will depend on the context of the scene you've to write. A woman that is usually shy and never take the initiative, can suddenly turn into a great leader when facing a catastrophe

I absolutely love putting this kind of turn of events in my writing. It’s my favourite form of character development. But it’s tricky and risky to pull off well with a Love Interest in a romance Visual Novel, let alone this kind of AVN.
Players get to like a LI because she is what she is. Do a character development badly, and you risk that they won’t like her any longer. Heck, it’s absolutely guaranteed that someone won’t like her any longer after you “alter” her (show her hidden depths, make her face her fears, etc).
I still remember with disappointment when I went for the tomboyish redhead in “Sagara Family”. Once romanced, she turned all mellow, virginal and timid. Hey, that wasn’t the girl I picked: give me back my abrasive, spirited, backboned girl, you stupid Japanese developer!

But women can orgasm from certain workouts. Due to the vagina being a muscle and all that shit. So... that is an optional horny angle for a "beefy" woman. It could literally be a kink for them. And just slap on a "pride" personality on them, in that they are cocky about their vaginal muscles. That is at least one thing that I feel lacking with several types of female characters: They just... never have any interest in their own bodies.

Mind… blown…
These are great suggestions.
Not really unexplored territory, but I was too absorbed in my self-pity that I forgot of these interesting angles for a butch type of girl.

Also... Note to self: add at least two distinct dialogues where a LI complains about period pains.

It's basically boils down to "Is my character too much of a male PC? I still want her to be female NPC enough as to not threaten male players.".

As the players don’t control the Love Interests the problem as you pose it doesn’t exist. They already have a male PC, that is the protagonist, the Main character, the POV/Narrator and the Hero all together (a well-proven formula that has at least 40000 years of finetuning).
Making a character not threatening to the player is definitely easy, the char’s gender has nothing to do with it. All the male characters in my games are already studied carefully to be non-threatening to the player.
All my blathering is about writing female characters that will feel authentic.

Now, my LIs, especially the empowered ones, might easily end up being threatening to the MC. It's a fantasy noir, it can't be a good noir without at least one femme fatale. But they're breaking the gender roles of their own setting, not ours: it's a completely different matter.
That was threatening in the 1930s, less in the 1950s (that's why Marlowe comes out as an insufferable bigot in the later Chandler novels... he was already a rearguard twenty years before, but again, I'm digressing).
Buy now, it's perfectly acceptable that an attractive woman might be a thug, the leader of the rebellion or even the ruthless, bloodthirsty boss of a violent crime syndicate that could have the MC throated at a whim and still uses sexy dresses to assert power over her peers. In fiction we are perfectly used to those characters, the

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is even a trope by itself.
The more powerful the women, the more power to the guy topping them in bed, and the magnetism of the Hero's dick can redeem the vilest of the evil bitches (as long as she's a hottie, of course).

 

[anne O'nymous]

Sure, I can say, “oh, you know, this woman of power acts, thinks and feels exactly like a man, but it’s because she’s expected to”, but having a justification in-universe won’t make the character any less uninspired and banal.

You talk about history, but I don't see Catherine The Great, Joanne of Arc, or Queen Victoria, to take only three well known examples, being remembered like uninspired and banal. Yet no one can say that they didn't had the biggest balls of their time.

[...] I feel that sex/gender has an underlying influence that is shared by all females and all males regardless of any other factor.

Only if they decide to care about the expectation of the society. But here you are worrying about something that you previously discarded: Modern times.

Lazy women acting like cliché women is a modern expectation. Before the 19th century (globally speaking), it's only women from the nobility who could afford to live like that. Any other women were expected to works as hard as their man ; and I don't talk only about the household chores, they were also doing their share of works outside of the house.

Hormones don’t care much about that kind of stuff, after all.

Hormones shape our reactions, not our actions, nor our personality.
Yet it's not fully innate reactions, a part of it is acquired over time. While women will be more pron to cry when they are sad, men also cry. It's just that men are told to not do it, and with time they learn to hide their tears ; something that a woman can perfectly do, and would do if she was raised in the same way than a man.
At equal education and life experience, the only difference between a man and a woman would be that the woman is more frequently sad. But like she wouldn't show it, you wouldn't know it.

As I keep stressing for no particular reason (that I can fathom), I don't have the same issue when writing an AVN in a modern setting (nor when I'm not writing AVNs at all... but writing regular novels feels like cheating in comparison).

Study more about gender expectation and perception through history. You'll see that you are mostly worrying without reason. In fact, it feel more like you're trying to write female characters that would effectively looks girly enough, but be totally out of place for the time setting and role you'll put them on.

Take a middle age cobbler by example. While he was doing his job, his wife was working the raw skins, to turn them into usable leather, tanning and dyeing them. It's only in the biggest towns that she could, partly, afford to be lazy, because there her husband would earn enough to directly buy leather. Yet, she would probably be the one buying them, what replace an exhausting task by a less exhausting one.

 

[Nutluck]

Minor rant, the terms being used in this thread are not being used correctly. PC, NPC, GM, DM, MC all came from RPG aka Role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons back in the 70's and 80's. I know this because I use to play it back then.

PC = Player Character. It literally means a character controlled by one of the players.
MC = Main Character, which in a RPG is always a PC. In movies and books it can just mean the main character in the story aka the hero.
NPC = Non player character. all it means is a character not played by one of the players sitting around the table. They was controlled by the game master or dungeon master
DM = Dungeon Master, the person telling the story.
GM - Game Master, same as a DM above just another name for it

A good NPC has depth, has a personality, has wants and desires. They point of a NPC is they are a fully fleshed out character the players can interact with controlled by the DM

Lets take Lord of the Rings as a example and pretend it was a DnD game. The Fellowship, Frodo, Sam Wise, Gandalf, Strider etc would be the PC's in the game. They would be played by the player sitting around the table. Frodo would be the MC, the main character as the main focus of the story is destroying the one ring. You don't always have a MC in a adventure, actually often you don't but sometimes you, if it is more focused on just one of the PC's.

All the other character like Arwen, Saruman, Gollum etc would all be NPC's and most of them are not card board cutouts but have backgrounds and personalities etc.

OK rant over, you guys can go back to arguing about what you was arguing about.

 

[Kattlarv]

This feels like a 'very' gender specific use-case that doesn't scale well.. if I deleted a few words from those examples, suddenly the amount of games that offer these, widens significantly.

You've sort of couched your examples to the most extremes.

Can I be a dominant female in a large amount of games? Yes.
Can I be a dominant female "that cums the most"? Still Yes...

Can I be a dominant female "that cums the most" and has.. "IMPOSING GENITALS" - ..

Well no.. but how large of an audience is there for that very specific example you just made up? Most of these games are incentivized to cast a large net and appeal to the lowest common denominator..

I also can think of quite a few (relatively speaking) games where the male protagonist doesn't "cum the most" or have "imposing genitals".


EDIT

One further point. Is cumming and genitals all that matter for differentiating a NPC from a PC? What about emotional development, story telling , etc.
All your examples feel highly focused on gender roles in sex.

Well, yes. If you delete a few words. The amount of games widen. But... the issue there is that: They don't exist. (That me, or the hundreds I've talked to, is aware of.) It's like if I change it to "I can be a dominant female with a horse pussy"... I think there might be ONE game with that... point being: Just because I wishfully change a statement, doesn't make it true.

Can you be a dominant female in games? Technically, yes. WITH strings attached. Generally ONLY limited to being a porn dominatrix without sexual needs. So, you are practically never allowed to simply be "dominant".
Can you be a female that cums the most? ... No. I've never found a single ANYTHING that allows that. (Outside of lesbian games... but even half of those somehow manage to include more male orgasms xD But not any straight games.)

And yeah, that IS the thing. That IS the lowest common denominator. That IS the cookie cutter character. The "dominant male with imposing genitals that cums the most" is the "gruff middle aged man with a stubble and dark hair" video game equivalent.
It's as wide net, vanilla as you can get. Yet: We don't have a SINGLE female character of that archetype. Like... I'd guesstimate that that archetype accounts for at least 90 % of ALL male characters in porn games. It's VERY basic. Yet, as said: Nothing on the female side. Instead: We have this REALLY weird mishmash where they either hate sex, love sex or are an emotionless automaton. Where: The ONLY thing in common with female characters: Is that they are all tantric sex experts that can do every pose and act without issue.

And games like that would be interesting to see. Assuming they aren't voyeurism or cucking games. As those fall under the exception.

As for cumming and genitals: It depends on the game. In general: Yes. That is one of the main factors.
For RoR games: No. You're not supposed to be the coolest guy in the room. (Yet as said: People make the male PC's that.)
And unless you are playing a whore game: The goal of the porn game, is generally to porn. So, your character not cumming, or being featureless makes it a rather bland PC.
Plus, there's plenty of games without story or development. Like, the "High Tail Hall" type games are notorious for that. Where the male PC feels like playing a PC... and the female option, if any: Is just a shit, inferior version of playing the male. As: Instead of going around pleasuring your genitals. You are going around pleasuring OTHER'S genitals. So, total 180 of what those games are "about".
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But yes: As said: Playing a PC that feels like a PC is important. To quickly recap an example I used before: You play as Gary, and find out about a gloryhole. The game now puts you on a quest to find that place. You fuck around, find quest items and shit. And then finally: You UNLOCK the glory hole! And are rewarded by your PC being able to use it. Quest complete, you are rewarded.
But now: We play as Garyette. STEVE tells us about a glory hole. And we are tasked to go do Steve's job for him. You fuck around, quest items and all that. And poof: You did the quest. We return to Steve and as a reward, we get a scene showing STEVE use it. Cuz: We are a girl. And girls can't sex. We don't get any reward. We can't use it. (Outside of re-watching the scene, usually. And: Assuming this isn't a whore game. In which: We'd unlock it as a way to earn money.)
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And THAT is the point. The focus on genital roles, is to point out the massive gaps in porn games. As noted: If we'd play a futa, we'd get the SAME rewards as a male character. As: The penis entitles the character to "male privilege". (Sarcasm intended.)
I've used the pokemon analogy a few times. But basically: If we pick a male trainer. The game functions as normal. If we pick a female trainer: The game is now flipped. We have to LOSE to progress. We have to give away our rewards and all that.
And this is rather unique to porn games. Like: If you play a survival horror game. Whether you are male or female: You KNOW to be careful. As you are the underdog, the prey. (Some games DO let you fight back. But you're never Doomguy.) But, when we look at RoR games especially... someone fucked up the roles as said. As: The female PC is weak prey. But, the male PC is a big dick power fantasy that cums the most. Like, with female PC: The monster rapes you until it cums. But male PC: The monster rapes you until YOU cum... and it's often not even rape, as the male PC has to enjoy it... There's plenty of clear examples where the strict genital roles, can fuck over a game content wise. As, I've time and again see someone try to "copy" a game. Fuck up the genital roles. And then be confused over why "the game is missing something" or whatnot.

 

[Kattlarv]

Minor rant, the terms being used in this thread are not being used correctly. PC, NPC, GM, DM, MC all came from RPG aka Role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons back in the 70's and 80's. I know this because I use to play it back then.

PC = Player Character. It literally means a character controlled by one of the players.
MC = Main Character, which in a RPG is always a PC. In movies and books it can just mean the main character in the story aka the hero.
NPC = Non player character. all it means is a character not played by one of the players sitting around the table. They was controlled by the game master or dungeon master
DM = Dungeon Master, the person telling the story.
GM - Game Master, same as a DM above just another name for it

A good NPC has depth, has a personality, has wants and desires. They point of a NPC is they are a fully fleshed out character the players can interact with controlled by the DM

Lets take Lord of the Rings as a example and pretend it was a DnD game. The Fellowship, Frodo, Sam Wise, Gandalf, Strider etc would be the PC's in the game. They would be played by the player sitting around the table. Frodo would be the MC, the main character as the main focus of the story is destroying the one ring. You don't always have a MC in a adventure, actually often you don't but sometimes you, if it is more focused on just one of the PC's.

All the other character like Arwen, Saruman, Gollum etc would all be NPC's and most of them are not card board cutouts but have backgrounds and personalities etc.

OK rant over, you guys can go back to arguing about what you was arguing about.

I am aware.
But no-one uses terms correctly anymore. So I just slap the most commonly used ones on there, and hope it works.
Otherwise I'd need 3 paragraphs to even cover it. And this is wall of text enough as it is.

 

[Kattlarv]

1: Mind… blown…
These are great suggestions.
Not really unexplored territory, but I was too absorbed in my self-pity that I forgot of these interesting angles for a butch type of girl.

Also... Note to self: add at least two distinct dialogues where a LI complains about period pains.

_______
There's tons of options for a butch type girl.
Everything from "farm girl" to dopamine addict.
As the saying goes: You can't see the forest due to all the trees. Too focused on making a character "girl" and not "person"



2:As the players don’t control the Love Interests the problem as you pose it doesn’t exist. They already have a male PC, that is the protagonist, the Main character, the POV/Narrator and the Hero all together (a well-proven formula that has at least 40000 years of finetuning).
Making a character not threatening to the player is definitely easy, the char’s gender has nothing to do with it. All the male characters in my games are already studied carefully to be non-threatening to the player.
All my blathering is about writing female characters that will feel authentic.

Now, my LIs, especially the empowered ones, might easily end up being threatening to the MC. It's a fantasy noir, it can't be a good noir without at least one femme fatale. But they're breaking the gender roles of their own setting, not ours: it's a completely different matter.
That was threatening in the 1930s, less in the 1950s (that's why Marlowe comes out as an insufferable bigot in the later Chandler novels... he was already a rearguard twenty years before, but again, I'm digressing).
Buy now, it's perfectly acceptable that an attractive woman might be a thug, the leader of the rebellion or even the ruthless, bloodthirsty boss of a violent crime syndicate that could have the MC throated at a whim and still uses sexy dresses to assert power over her peers. In fiction we are perfectly used to those characters, the

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is even a trope by itself.
The more powerful the women, the more power to the guy topping them in bed, and the magnetism of the Hero's dick can redeem the vilest of the evil bitches (as long as she's a hottie, of course).

________
Depends on the game. As, generally: ALL availible characters are a love interest. (Except males, or ugly supportive cast.)
And again: Depends on the game. As the maledom dev I've talked to: You CANNOT make a female character REMOTELY threatening, as it scares the male player base. ONLY male characters can be threatening to them. As that gives them "an equal" that they can defeat. Heck, an infamous game on this site has that whole issue. It has multiple female characters that can easily kill the male PC. And the male PC has superpowers. Yet: These girls are regularly taken out by weak, pathetic school bullies that the girls could execute with a single thought. As: The dev knows: If the girls are shown to have ANY power, it will scare off the insecure males playing the game. And that's saying it with sugar coating xD (It may be a well proven formula, but the amount of exception and special pleading goes beyond that xP)

The era definitely plays a role in it. The overton window is constantly escalating.
And that is partially true. She is still limited by the genital roles.
Like: She can't be a selfish rapist. ONLY men can be that. She CAN be an evil sadist though. As that is deemed "feminine" enough. And like you said: It always circles back to how AMAZING the PC's hyper dick is xP
As I referenced before: You don't have any female characters talking about their junk. But male PC's and NPC's, constantly do. As well as female characters: Talking about them xD
They are still restricted to what roles and archetypes they are allowed to have.