I just want to say I finally defeated Venefica 1on1 today. Enamor OP
Ren'Py Monster Girl Dreams [v26.7a Alpha] [Threshold]
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Damn, here i am checking the discussion for MGD, and the first thing i read is how certain characters should be executed for not being sympathetic. reminds me of downright anyone who ever played an RPG, where unkindness is punishable by death.
Yes, Beris has a loose mouth that is incapable of speaking any sentence without cursing and insulting, but in my eyes, it seems so over the top that i find myself incapable of taking her seriously, especially after finding out her secret hobby, seems to me like she's so insecure about her fetish that she goes the opposite direction and gets so aggressive it borders on parody. y'know what i see in her when she has her tangents? a kid from CoD yelling how they had sex with my mother. that's how seriously i can take her when she's acting like a petulant child, and since she secretly enjoys being dominated, we can take that a step further and punish the kid for the tantrum and teach it some manners. she acts like a teenager who really wants to be cool and thinks being a douche is cool.
so yeah, i agree, we need additional content with them to flesh out their characters, as it stands now the personalities can be summoned up as "Horny", "fuck you", "Elegant girls want pets" and "Easily flabbergasted Queen"
and seriously, as much i like Ceris, i do have to jokingly ask, did she escape from Monster-Girl Enceclopedia or where do her scale-breaking horny levels come from?
Yes, Beris has a loose mouth that is incapable of speaking any sentence without cursing and insulting, but in my eyes, it seems so over the top that i find myself incapable of taking her seriously, especially after finding out her secret hobby, seems to me like she's so insecure about her fetish that she goes the opposite direction and gets so aggressive it borders on parody. y'know what i see in her when she has her tangents? a kid from CoD yelling how they had sex with my mother. that's how seriously i can take her when she's acting like a petulant child, and since she secretly enjoys being dominated, we can take that a step further and punish the kid for the tantrum and teach it some manners. she acts like a teenager who really wants to be cool and thinks being a douche is cool.
so yeah, i agree, we need additional content with them to flesh out their characters, as it stands now the personalities can be summoned up as "Horny", "fuck you", "Elegant girls want pets" and "Easily flabbergasted Queen"
and seriously, as much i like Ceris, i do have to jokingly ask, did she escape from Monster-Girl Enceclopedia or where do her scale-breaking horny levels come from?
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- Jan 1, 2018
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All the people here upset about Beris being a dick are kind of funny. Does every character in this game need to have some weird soft side and immediately fall head over heels for the MC? I quite like characters who are just a dickhead and seemingly hate you. It's way more interesting than the usual "omg i love u" / "pls fuck me" characters.
- Aug 12, 2019
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She's one of the cut characters from TiTS because she wasn't a futa.
- Jul 9, 2017
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There's quite a bit of characters that you need to actually get closer to, to find more about them. Kotone winds up being a massive sweet heart who had issues and is the reason why she's the way she is. It's really fucked what happened to her.
- Jan 1, 2018
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Yeah, and in the end they all more or less become the character who loves the MC unquestionably. The game genuinely benefits from having more of a variety in characters who genuinely just don't like you, and only interact with you for business purposes. It gets old when every single character who is a snarky dickhead in these games inevitably becomes just another waifu. Turning Beris into another 'dickhead with a heart of gold who just wants to be herself' will cheapen the character.
- Jan 24, 2020
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Well, to be fair, hellhounds were never known to be cuddly and affectionate. I was half expecting her to become one of the MC's future waifus but it also wouldn't surprise me if she really is just an immature twat who uses the MC (or anyone else who takes her deal for that matter) to get her rocks off and doesn't give them a second thought after. Maybe labyrinth Beris is the real Beris, and whoever we meet at the inn is just her being embarrassed about a kink that hellhounds aren't "supposed to have". I vaguely remember her saying something like that at some point.
Bringing Kotone back up reminded me of some thoughts that I had awhile back but never actually commented because I'm usually a serious lurker. Also my MGD lore may be a little rusty, Its been awhile since I did a fresh run of the game.
I personally really like Kotone, and think that she's a really good character but rather than talk about that I wanted to talk about putting some stuff in the world into perspective (for at least how I see it).
Kotone and Sofia were definitely evil back during the war, no doubt about it. They killed, enslaved, and abused humans. That being said, this doesn't mean that humans were not doing the same to the monster girls. We see from Kotone's story that there were people who tricked monster girls to effectively steal and sell their parts, like Kotone's tail. Which could indicate that humans were literally butchering and selling monster girl organs for medicine and magic. We don't know the full story but the game makes an effort to indicate that no one side was good.
This makes me believe that both sides of the war were absolutely shitty and evil. (though that isn't to say all the people who participated in the war were evil). The difference is that humans don't live long. So while all of the evil humans from the war have died and are no longer alive to be hated and blamed, monster girls like Kotone and Sofia are still alive and thus we are fully able to look at their past sins and point the finger still.
After the war both Kotone and Sofia could have remained as evil as they were during the war but instead when the war ended they made efforts to change their ways and become good (or at least better than actually evil... Sofia.). This is what really endeared me to Kotone when going through her questline. She has trauma, and her time in the war really solidified some of her more nefarious kinks, but she genuinely feels guilty about what she's done. Even when she hypnotises the MC, if you pick certain dialogue she shows genuine remorse when she thinks she's hurt you and offers to end the hypnotism entirely because she's learned that its wrong to force her kinks on others. I like that growth and her desire to be better.
I definitely find it hard to wrap my head around if I could forgive Kotone for her past in real life though. Its kind of hard for me to look at this realistically when we are talking about monster girls and sexy hypnosis magic. Would Kotone be considered a skillful mercenary if we were being realistic instead of magical? I'm going to say mercenary because she was fighting in a war. Could I love a killer? Should I forgive her for harming innocent people by assuming that the war took place in a society similar to ones in medieval times, where razing villages and slaughtering women and children was the norm? Thinking really hard about it leads to really difficult questions and I'm not sure how to answer. Instead I've decided not to judge her too harshly, as she's a 700 year old, near immortal magic caster that fought in a war that was going on from far before she was even born. She made mistakes and is at least trying to better herself, and as you do the questline for her, you are able to help her move forward, away from her evil days. Thats enough for me personally.
I personally really like Kotone, and think that she's a really good character but rather than talk about that I wanted to talk about putting some stuff in the world into perspective (for at least how I see it).
Kotone and Sofia were definitely evil back during the war, no doubt about it. They killed, enslaved, and abused humans. That being said, this doesn't mean that humans were not doing the same to the monster girls. We see from Kotone's story that there were people who tricked monster girls to effectively steal and sell their parts, like Kotone's tail. Which could indicate that humans were literally butchering and selling monster girl organs for medicine and magic. We don't know the full story but the game makes an effort to indicate that no one side was good.
This makes me believe that both sides of the war were absolutely shitty and evil. (though that isn't to say all the people who participated in the war were evil). The difference is that humans don't live long. So while all of the evil humans from the war have died and are no longer alive to be hated and blamed, monster girls like Kotone and Sofia are still alive and thus we are fully able to look at their past sins and point the finger still.
After the war both Kotone and Sofia could have remained as evil as they were during the war but instead when the war ended they made efforts to change their ways and become good (or at least better than actually evil... Sofia.). This is what really endeared me to Kotone when going through her questline. She has trauma, and her time in the war really solidified some of her more nefarious kinks, but she genuinely feels guilty about what she's done. Even when she hypnotises the MC, if you pick certain dialogue she shows genuine remorse when she thinks she's hurt you and offers to end the hypnotism entirely because she's learned that its wrong to force her kinks on others. I like that growth and her desire to be better.
I definitely find it hard to wrap my head around if I could forgive Kotone for her past in real life though. Its kind of hard for me to look at this realistically when we are talking about monster girls and sexy hypnosis magic. Would Kotone be considered a skillful mercenary if we were being realistic instead of magical? I'm going to say mercenary because she was fighting in a war. Could I love a killer? Should I forgive her for harming innocent people by assuming that the war took place in a society similar to ones in medieval times, where razing villages and slaughtering women and children was the norm? Thinking really hard about it leads to really difficult questions and I'm not sure how to answer. Instead I've decided not to judge her too harshly, as she's a 700 year old, near immortal magic caster that fought in a war that was going on from far before she was even born. She made mistakes and is at least trying to better herself, and as you do the questline for her, you are able to help her move forward, away from her evil days. Thats enough for me personally.
- Oct 24, 2017
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So, while there's for sure a good bit of hyperbole when it comes to just how much of an atrocity Berris is. I think I know why. It's because she's not just a character in a game, for us to react to and think about on our own terms. By virtue of what kind of game it is, she's for better or worse, a waifu, or at least we're thinking of her as such. That's where the problem arises. If some character is a complete cunt, I can react however I please. I might even like that character if they're entertaining or have an interesting story. But add in the fact that I'm supposed to like said cunt. Well then things get tricky.
The obvious counter point is that there's already a bunch of other waifus in the game, that we can engage with if this one in particular rankles. I think if her character isn't tweaked, then options to be more overtly put off by her would suffice. Maybe even disable her encounter in the brothel if in the Labyrinth you reject her outright. (could also be temporary, so you could apologize or something and it'd turn on again)
The obvious counter point is that there's already a bunch of other waifus in the game, that we can engage with if this one in particular rankles. I think if her character isn't tweaked, then options to be more overtly put off by her would suffice. Maybe even disable her encounter in the brothel if in the Labyrinth you reject her outright. (could also be temporary, so you could apologize or something and it'd turn on again)
My issue with Kotone though is how you properly get introduced into her storyline. You have to go through, what she claims to be a series of beneficial training sessions. While it does have some benefits, she has an ulterior motive to it. And once you reach the last session where you are a hypno-slave, she outright tells you that you're only a toy and that she may get bored of you one day and throw you to random kunoichis. Even if you pass her trials, it's hard to pursue a deeper relationship with that premise, that you're merely a plaything, and the most logical choice for all but the subbiest of the heroes, would be to seek freedom immediately. This is only my gripe since I roleplay the game like an actual chosen hero of the goddess and not a hardcore sub so I'm effectively locked out of her content because it doesn't make sense to pursue narratively.
this part right there is interesting for me because of cultural reasons, if Japanese Culture taught me anything about Kitsune, it's that they are pranksters and tricksters.
besides that, the writings on the wall if one stops for a moment and thinks about it, The temple is split into 2 sections, Willpower and Strength, the Strength temple is straightforward with it's challenges, which all require you to do something that can be solved if you just apply enough force towards it.
Willpower however requires you to hold out, stay cool, and don't waver in the face of temptation, so everyone who trusts the local kitsune to help you by offering a trick to easily pass the trial, a trial that needs you to keep an iron will, well folks, you fell for the classic blunder of trusting the kitsune. in fact, i'd say that in trying to take the easy route, you already failed the "don't give in to temptation" part. you did ask for an easy mode in a challenge.
but hey, at least she wasn't a bald man in leather armor, standing near a cliff, telling you that treasure is nearby. all you gotta do is take a peek. *wink wink*
- Jul 9, 2017
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Yep you hit the nail on the head, that's how kitsune actually are. Also some people become so broken and so distrusting of people from horrible experiences, it's very hard to make any headway with them. Kotone had such a horrible experience she didn't want to trust humans ever again.
Like was also said, humans and monsters were shitty to each other during that war, it's war after all, both sides do horrible things to each other. Some of it just isn't seen as much as the others aka one side more than the other.
Also, so many people forget that youkai (japanese mythological monsters), are not really looking for partners. Most of the time they just want to murder and are ACTUAL monsters. The versions nowadays aka monster girls are the romanticized versions of these creatures.
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well first I get the dark souls reference(I hope I am not mistake), and second I didn't trust her any bit(thanks to Minoni) but I see in the wiki that if I chose the easy way it will become the hard way instead and comes with some good rewards so I decide to go along with the prank just to make things more funny for me(and I was curious about her history), did I failed in keep my iron will or just went after a better challenger?
EDIT: as you already guess I am not a english native so I make grammar mistakes very often.
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eh, grammar could use a bit of work, if i understood you correctly, you asked if you failed in keeping your iron will or just started a challenge. the answer is, no you didn't fail. you just made it harder/ more challenging for yourself, most enemies in the temple use hypnosis attacks, and doing all of Kotone's sessions made you quicker to hypnotize, going from 10 to 5 rounds.
still, if you manage to beat the entire temple while under kotone's influence, you get to do her romance path.
- May 3, 2018
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I'm only going to address specific parts of Sarojin's post, because the rest is worthless. Someone who talks down to people about abuse survivors when one of those persons they talk down to is a survivor themselves, can get fucked by a cactus.
Having an opinion is immature? Also, how did you grow up so demented that you attribute real-world value to a fictional character? If that person was calling for Threshold to be murdered, I would be agreeing with you. But, you're actively calling someone a piece of shit for disliking a character. You know how many people want Homelander from The Boys dead? How many people cheered when Tucco from Breaking Bad got his comeuppance? People get passionate about these things. I think as long as they aren't acting on those passions, it's fine. Calling someone "immature" for being passionate about something says a lot about how lacking your life is.
This right here, it just further validates my points about you. I also have zero compassion for someone who, when confronted on their shitty behaviour, rather than reflecting on why someone reacted badly to them, insists they're correct instead. There is a difference between being a social invalid, and being so self-involved that you fail to realize why you have no friends in the real-world. Protip: It's cause you act like a cunt and refuse to acknowledge it. Like right now.
We're on a forum, and someone expressed an opinion you disagree with. You had three options: a) the high road, where you ignore it and move on, b) acknowledge it, express disagreement, move on, or c) become a total cunt, talk down to others, and then arrogantly declare yourself King Shit of Shit Mountain. You chose option c.
If I say "that Punisher guy is a right bell-end, someone ought to write him a messy end" then I don't think that's psychotic. Someone disliking a character enough to want to see that character written with a particularly morbid ending isn't psychotic. When you incorrectly attribute that passion to a real-world desire, that is reaching.
Ah, yes, I recall that guy that Bruce Wayne is based on. I think you need to get a grip on reality, bud.
She's a cunt that has closet sub tendencies, but makes every interaction cringe-worthy and intolerable. Some feel passionately about how completely unlikable she is, compounded by the fact that she occupies two floors in the labyrinth and spams the same two fucking moves which would be fine if her "good" content wasn't hidden behind optional side content. I don't need to deal with Venefica's shit if I don't want to. Same with Kotone. Beris, I have to tolerate her attitude, her scenes (not my speed, admittedly), and the obnoxious combat. Three strikes, blah blah.
Asuka from Evangelion is pretty unlikable. She has the skill to back it, though, and as the series progresses, you get a better impression of her as a person. Beris comes out swinging and calling you names, and does basically nothing to endear herself despite. At least with early Asuka, I could tolerate her as a person because I know when it comes down to it, she's reliable. Also, Asuka doesn't call Shinji a cunt every other second. She competes with him and can be a bit more than bitchy at times, but it's because she wants him to be as reliable so she isn't getting skewered by wayward piece of geometry.
I think that's the worst part about people who defend her. Their excuse is "she suffered abuse, so that justifies her doing this! You're a dick for thinking she's just being manipulative and abusive, you uneducated swine!" Kotone is the abuser, the manipulator, and an irredeemable piece of snot. Someone who allegedly "changed" 100 years prior isn't keen on lying outright about their intent or the outcome. She lies, and when you cry about it, promises to undo it, but then asks as a follow-up if you enjoyed it. I didn't go into Vili's trials without being told beforehand what might happen, and I get the lovey-dovey stuff without strings afterwards. Even Bat Waifu knows her voice has an effect and despite moments of ditzy silliness, won't do anything without your consent and won't do anything permanent. Kotone has no such apprehensions and takes advantage of your willingness to trust her, then blames you for doing so afterwards.
Then you need to do more research. The more mainstream, western versions are, certainly. Doing a deep-dive, even a rudimentary wiki look, you learn that while they do get a reputation as tricksters, they're also known as faithful guardians, protectors, and friends. Kitsune also grow more powerful and more wiser with age, so an older kitsune would recognize that a) not every Human they encounter is shit, and b) that to come off as credible when you claim to be a "better person", you must practice it. Lying outright about your intent is not wisdom. We can assume Kotone is old enough to have learned that by now.
To quote Zhuge Liang, "battles are not won by strength alone." The strength side makes it clear with alternative "win conditions" that this is a statement that applies. You can brute force it like a caveman, or find a method that helps you accomplish the task. Both options are equally valid. The point is proving you have the ability to accomplish the task itself.
I don't think so, Tim. She even offers her "services" once you complete the trials, and when you do the cry option after the final hypno scene, she even remarks that you already completed the trials so her hypnotizing you wasn't even necessary. She even gaslights you, claiming that trusting a monster girl (read, not just her, any) in general is a bad idea. Meanwhile, Bat Waifu has her fun (with your consent) and makes no attempt to undermine your agency by gaslighting you.
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- Jul 9, 2017
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Begins post with: "Someone who talks down to people about abuse survivors when one of those persons they talk down to is a survivor themselves, can get fucked by a cactus." You mention me in the beginning here, and then are talking about someone else (maybe? I'm not sure), the way you word things is very confusing, that 2nd part could have been a whole separate sentence, so it's not confused who it pertains to.
Proving my point right there sir, the problem sounds like projection in several fronts. You sure seem to be an expert at putting words in people's mouths, and cherry picking things.
This whole way you begin is doing the exact thing you've said: " you attribute real-world value to a fictional character? " You're doing just that right here, and you're making it super personal for no reason. Your're making a mountain out of a mole hill over several statements, not just mine.
Everyone has problems. Guess what, I've got my own issues too, I just don't air them. Also, very egotistical and looking down on me that you're saying I don't have friends, quote ironic and hypocritical. Thank you so much for proving you're the asshole here.
Btw, I do indeed have friends, as if that's any of your business, as you seem pretty obsessed with my life and getting it completely wrong.
I think you're failing to grasp Kotone's story, everyone has their own way of interpreting something. I interpret it more as a person who was broken, went berserk and was emotionally and mentally broken, and she has massive demons and regret about that. No, I don't think going on a massive killing spree, and hypnotizing people for your own purposes is "defendable"/"right", a lot of people want to change and get second chances.
For Kotone that was after the war, if you actually delve into her story, you can see why she did the things she did, she was betrayed by someone who loved her and was just stringing her along. She broke that day and became a very very evil being, who was merciless and killed tons of people. She's even regretful over the fact of forcing you via hypnosis, as you go along she opens up and tells you her past, the reason she forced you, is because she was afraid the only person she started to have feelings for would go away, and she kind of wanted a puppet that would obey her. A person she could control, so she wouldn't have a person betray her again. When you get past that, she's starting to heal, but she's got a long way to go.
You do you though, different strokes for different folks.
I don't really have sympathy for people who instantly judge people before beginning to know them, having gone through it myself several times over.
I'm passionate about lots of things too, guess where I do those, in private with my friends or to myself in private.
I also love how you've cherry picked me for the 3rd time now, I said extreme opinions for a reason. I also never said once that someone shouldn't be able to voice their opinion, I said the way it was expressed here it comes off and whiny and bitchy, aka a 1st world problem over characters you can choose to not interact with/skip past.
Also, I did say in my posts that I'm held to the same standards as well, that's another cherry pick.
You're correct in that I could have said nothing, the same is also beholden to you. You felt the need to say something as well, c'est la vie.
I also didn't insult you until I called you an asshole, which was just a character judgement. Not once but twice now you've went after personal attacks on me, and are for the 3rd time, off the mark. You're not my phycologist, therapist, or parent. So kindly get bent (that's a lot nicer way of saying what I want to say)
Also "attribute real-world value to a fictional character", you do realize what stories and characters, fictional as well are based off of right? Real situations, real experiences, real mannerisms, sometimes real people.
Finally let's go over some of your greatest hits:
"I wonder if you think you're insightful or some kind of sage. Your post smacks of someone up their own ass about how wise they sound"
"The fuck are you going on about? This is some insane levels of cognitive dissonance and rambling. Take your meds, grandpa."
"Someone who talks down to people about abuse survivors when one of those persons they talk down to is a survivor themselves, can get fucked by a cactus."
" how did you grow up so demented "
" being so self-involved that you fail to realize why you have no friends in the real-world "
That's 5, I'll let #2 go it's not really that bad, 1 is not too bad but it's still going after me a bit, so 4 are personal attacks.
Now then, addressing you specifically and what I've said here let's see how many times I've personally attacked you:
" I don't waste my time on assholes, there's a difference between being a smart ass and being an asshole, I've dealt with a lot of them in my life)"
1 time, and it wasn't even a personal attack, it was me judging you based on previous things you've said.
You also at the very beginning say that most of what I say is "worthless". So please do enlighten me, who's the one who's looking down on whom now sir? Based on the 4 times you've personally attacked me and made some very skewed/baseless assumptions about my life. Sounds like you need to follow your own advice about realizing who you are.
I think what's the funniest, is I'm not even a big fan of Beris. Also people who pull the "You're the problem" card, 99% of the time are the actual ones that are the problem, just saying.
All of this starting on a very tame post, that you then went full in on me, and the reverse for me. Once again, you could have yourself chose to not respond at all to me, and we wouldn't be here in this back and forth.
At the end of the day, let's just agree to disagree.
Have a nice day.
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- Nov 1, 2020
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People sure love to write. Personally i prefer asses
Well there's certainly lots of asses posting their hot takes around here lately.
- Jul 9, 2017
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I'm more of a boobs man, I can appreciate a good ass tho.