Ren'Py My Futa Family [v0.16 Fix] [DuckWorm]

[LLMask]

This is what it feels like watching as the thread devolves into NTR talk when the only type of relations this game has are family ones. But also none of it matters because the tiny femboy mc is in no relationships at all with anyone.

 

[Deleted member 9743029]

This is what it feels like watching as the thread devolves into NTR talk when the only type of relations this game has are family ones. But also none of it matters because the tiny femboy mc is in no relationships at all with anyone.

View attachment 5278598

For real. The "NTR" is an already established interaction between the 2 characters. Nothing about this interaction is cheating, causes any jealousy or excludes the MC from action further down the line. It literally pissed off ultra-sensitive folks.

 

[manscout]

I think this is kind of a given for characters which are romantic options for the MC. This very fact implies that some sort of connection or interest from MC is present, even if the game doesn't bend over backward to establish it in all painstaking details. It can certainly exist on part of those players who get pre-emptively invested and consequently bent out of shape when the girl gets involved with character other than the MC.

Assuming we are talking specifically about the Yui x Onori scene, I still defend that it isn't NTR on both the narrative and the meta-narrative fronts.

On the "meta-narrative" front, over the fact Yui is a romantic option and the player could get "pre-emptively invested", the counter-argument is that both Yui and Onori are romantic options. I think it is unfair to appeal to that premature attachment to justify negative feelings (disappointment they have sex with each other despite the promised future relationship they will eventually develop with the MC) but then ignore it when it comes to positive feelings (both of them are romantic options so the player can be confident that both of them will eventually end up with the MC, nothing was lost).

Also Yui x Onori can only happen after you progress on both Yui and Onori's routes, which to me constitutes as signalling that this is a game where the MC will have multiple romantic partners, not a scenario where 1 romantic option may also steal other mutually exclusive romantic options in different routes.

On the narrative front, I think here we can't really disregard the lack of an established romantic relationship and, given the relatively distant relationship between the MC and the romantic options (cousins that hadn't seen each other in a really long time, if ever), we can't just assume the deep emotional connection is there.

And beyond that, the scene isn't presented as something that happens as a consequence of the MC's failure and neither is it presented as something that damages the relationship between Riko and Yui (Riko doesn't think less of Yui over it and Yui is still very sexually interested on Riko). It even goes the extra mile of having them clear the air in the following Yui events (but I can agree stuff that happens after the fact is a gray area). Nothing about this part of the story seemed like it was trying to evoke the essential NTR feelings (it was much more attuned to just perverted voyeurism, which sometimes mixes with NTR storytelling but not here).

 

[ffive]

Assuming we are talking specifically about the Yui x Onori scene, I still defend that it isn't NTR on both the narrative and the meta-narrative fronts.

I was actually talking purely in general terms, not even about anything that happens in this game. That said, i think if some players feel like Onori fucking other girls (not just Yui but also her friend, and possibly others) is "NTRing them" then i wouldn't say they're entirely out of place here -- witnessing such events certainly can evoke feelings of jealousy and sense that the girls' attention is drawn away from MC, and i think it's not really accurate to claim that it is only about perverted voyeurism. Especially since i think the game already used Yui as a device to trigger such emotions in another scene, with the whole pervy teacher thing.

I think it is unfair to appeal to that premature attachment to justify negative feelings (disappointment they have sex with each other despite the promised future relationship they will eventually develop with the MC) but then ignore it when it comes to positive feelings (both of them are romantic options so the player can be confident that both of them will eventually end up with the MC, nothing was lost).

I don't think this is a matter of fairness. Or rather, it is but humans don't really work this way -- it's perfectly normal for people to hold themselves and others to double standards and thus feel hurt if characters they have feelings for get involved with each other, even if the player isn't "monogamous" in their feelings themselves. This seems quite common in the circles of harem game players, who much prefer to be sole center of attention for all their romantic partners, and often dislike if these partners also get involved with one another.

 

[TBone9]

This is what it feels like watching as the thread devolves into NTR talk when the only type of relations this game has are family ones. But also none of it matters because the tiny femboy mc is in no relationships at all with anyone.

View attachment 5278598

Nothing good comes from NTR talk.

 

[Ciaran8023]

I was actually talking purely in general terms, not even about anything that happens in this game. That said, i think if some players feel like Onori fucking other girls (not just Yui but also her friend, and possibly others) is "NTRing them" then i wouldn't say they're entirely out of place here -- witnessing such events certainly can evoke feelings of jealousy and sense that the girls' attention is drawn away from MC, and i think it's not really accurate to claim that it is only about perverted voyeurism. Especially since i think the game already used Yui as a device to trigger such emotions in another scene, with the whole pervy teacher thing.

I mean, respectfully, what someone thinks or feels doesn't change the definition of a trope.
There are MANY people out there that are so absurdly parasocial that they decide to harm themselves when their favourite celebrity gets shown in a picture with someone they don't like, and while people like the OG NTR dude that posted here might not fall under the same category, it's a similar psychological response.
Do we really leave the definition and usage of a well established trope to people who cannot even understand the basics of interpersonal relationships?
There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere dude, and I'm not leaving it to the same people who decides that two people that are - at the time - just about at the level of acquaintance to the MC decided to have sex, which is also something they had been doing for a long time.

Hell, if you actually use their logic, the MC is actually engaging in netori given that he's butting into a previously established sexual relation. You realize how this quickly becomes nonsensical right?

 

[ffive]

I mean, respectfully, what someone thinks or feels doesn't change the definition of a trope.
(...)
Do we really leave the definition and usage of a well established trope to people who cannot even understand the basics of interpersonal relationships?

I think on the contrary, it plays crucial role when the trope in question is primarily about the reader's feelings. If (one of) the definition is that it "triggers intense feelings of jealousy etc in the reader" than the stuff which triggers said feelings does fall under this definition.

Definitions, in general, are not set in stone but decided by use. So yes, if significant group of people starts using a word in certain way, then even if that use doesn't match the original meaning, it may be eventually become a widespread, updated meaning.

Trying to oppose it, it's akin to the complaints how "you're saying literally when you actually mean virtually". True as it may be, those people literally won't care and, past some point, neither does world at large.

Hell, if you actually use their logic, the MC is actually engaging in netori given that he's butting into a previously established sexual relation. You realize how this quickly becomes nonsensical right?

The fun part is that technically this could be considered correct -- the MC is potentially butting into existing relationships. As such this is not really turning things nonsensical, not as long as this internal logic holds.

 

[Ciaran8023]

I think on the contrary, it plays crucial role when the trope in question is primarily about the reader's feelings. If (one of) the definition is that it "triggers intense feelings of jealousy etc in the reader" than the stuff which triggers said feelings does fall under this definition.

Except, as stated, what someone (as in lone individual) feels or thinks has no bearing on the definition of a trope. The main, most commonly used, most commonly referred usage of and the original usage of the trope is specifically infidelity. That's where it sprung from, that's what it means, that's what it entails.
Netorare in general is the wrong term to use specifically for situations like that to be honest, cuckold is a lot more encompassing in it's use and would cover that better than Netorare.

Moreover, as I noted, at the point of the YuixOnori scene, they were at best acquaintances with the MC. They had yet to have any real meaningful conversations or learn that much about eachother, I'm with manscout in that I can't see any way where that scene would be considered NTR by even stretching definitions.
Sure, it might be to that one dude who is parasocial, but as I stated there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere, you can't mould or discard language to fit a random individual.

Also even the dev themselves noted that the upcoming NTR tag is for an entirely different character, so by their definition aswell it isn't NTR.

Definitions, in general, are not set in stone but decided by use. So yes, if significant group of people starts using a word in certain way, then even if that use doesn't match the original meaning, it may be eventually become a widespread, updated meaning.

I agree, but overly parasocial human beings aren't a significant group.
Even on F95 they're outnumbered probably like 500 to 1. I mean even in this very thread, you've had like two or three people trying to infer that it was NTR out of 57 pages.

I'm one of the main proponents of evolving language, but this isn't really an applicable example. We just see a disproportionate amount of it because we're on a degenerate pirate porn forum.

The fun part is that technically this could be considered correct -- the MC is potentially butting into existing relationships. As such this is not really turning things nonsensical, not as long as this internal logic holds.

It would be considered correct, not just technically, but as I said therein lies the nonsensical part, because the original poster that complained about NTR literally paid no attention to it at all. It didn't even register in his mind that the MC is also capable of netori or could technically be subjecting someone to netorare themselves, all they saw were two people consensually fucking and decided "I DON'T LIKE THAT, IT MUST BE CHEATING".

The point wasn't that the MC technically doing netori would be nonsensical, the point are the people trying to shove the term "NTR" onto everything are, by nature, nonsensical because they do not apply that logic evenly or even at all sometimes other than kneejerk reactions. I could've elaborated on that properly the first time around, that was my bad.

 

[manscout]

*snip

I gave a pass earlier because you made a good point with the meta-narrative element that a character can be outed as a romantic option before the story actually develops them as such, even if I think that it is rather silly for a player to start feeling possessive of a character from the start instead of letting the story play out and build that feeling up as intended by the author.

But the rest of that is bordering the "every attractive character must exist to only interact and have sex with the protagonist else its ntr" rubbish. The player isn't "witnessing an event", it is going through a crafted piece of storytelling. If the writing makes no attempt to goad or amplify the feelings of jealousy, then the game isn't evoking NTR feelings, the player himself is reaching for and calling forth those feelings without any real provocation.

This is what I meant earlier that there is a difference between "death of the author" and "delusion-fuelled media illiteracy".

and i think it's not really accurate to claim that it is only about perverted voyeurism.

The writing in that scene only shoots for 2 things: first it points out how incredibly kinky it is for 2 futanari sisters to be going at it with each other, specially given Yui's "prim and proper" façade, and second it plays up the exhibitionist aspect when Onori notices that Yui is nervously looking around thinking there is someone watching them.

At no point it makes any comments like "forget about Yui ever being with Riko because Onori took her" or "Onori took Yui because Riko was too pathetic to prevent it". It is just not something that is at all in the mind of any of the involved characters or the author writing the scene.

That said, i think if some players feel like Onori fucking other girls (not just Yui but also her friend, and possibly others) is "NTRing them" then i wouldn't say they're entirely out of place here -- witnessing such events certainly can evoke feelings of jealousy and sense that the girls' attention is drawn away from MC

I do want to say, the game totally could do NTR scenes involving Onori fucking other girls. Hell I half-suspected that could be where some of Aiko's content could go (although I imagined it more like a "NTR-play" scenario, where Aiko really is just friends with benefits with the two of them but plays along because Onori likes to roleplay the dynamic due to her sadism and Riko's masochism).

But it just simply hasn't yet.

sense that the girls' attention is drawn away from MC

I do want to mention this specifically on the game's context. During the big lore dump in Yui's relationship level 4 scene, she explains that part of the problem she and Onori have with each other is that, while she can have sex and enjoy it with both parts and feel aroused and orgasm, she won't feel satisfied and will stay pent up unless her "male part" is tended to, which Onori refuses to do for Yui because she is a bit selfish and wants to only top. She is willing to toy with Yui's dick but only to tease her because she knows Yui is much more suggestible when she crosses to her super aroused pent-up state, which Onori then abuses to get Yui to agree to have sex with her even when she wanted to hold out to teach Onori a lesson.

Just to say that even that angle of "attention drawn away" was more or less addressed, since we can probably agree on who is gonna be taking care of the "male parts" of the sisters in the near future.

I don't think this is a matter of fairness. Or rather, it is but humans don't really work this way -- it's perfectly normal for people to hold themselves and others to double standards and thus feel hurt if characters they have feelings for get involved with each other, even if the player isn't "monogamous" in their feelings themselves.

No, "perfectly normal" is to experience your feelings, examine what they tell you about your likes or dislikes, then make up your mind on if you want to keep following the game or not. If you want to go the extra mile you leave a helpful and informative review.

What this vocal minority of people do, that mislabel everything NTR, shriek about it in their own uninformed complaints, and then curse the dev and all of their future endeavors for somehow making a cuck out of the player, it is not "perfectly normal", it is barely tolerable, if that.

I have followed like 3 different devs who have all at some point basically vented that the rabid "anti-ntr" crowd is the most insufferable one to write porn games for. And unfortunately you can't really just ignore them because real NTR is a very heavy and divisive fetish that most people do want to avoid, and this vocal minority goes the extra mile to shout everywhere about how it is a "NTR game" if you ever add any scenes between secondary characters, or a swinging scene, or just an orgy where the "wrong" set of characters got involved with each other.

It is the equivalent of shouting that a game has "gore" because there was virginal blood in a scene, or its a "rape game" because there was a scene where characters were under the influence of aphrodisiacs and pheromones.

This seems quite common in the circles of harem game players, who much prefer to be sole center of attention for all their romantic partners, and often dislike if these partners also get involved with one another.

I have seen every single variation of this under the sun:
Girls in the harem are only allowed to have sex with the MC
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with other girls in the harem but only if its in a threesome with the MC
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with other girls in the harem but only if the MC is in the same room
Girls in the harem are only allowed to have sex with other girls in the harem
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with girls outside of the harem but only if its in a threesome with the MC
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with girls outside of the harem but only if the MC is in the same room
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with girls outside of the harem, but only girls
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with other men but only if its in a threesome with the MC
Girls in the harem are allowed to have sex with other men but only if its a form of punishment issued by the MC

I could literally add another 10 entries of insanely specific conditions I have already seen to that list, then add futa as a factor and you will easily double the size of that list. All of these people were convinced that their limit was the correct one, everything beyond it was "pathetic cuck shit", and the dev just had to know what that totally common sense limit was and tagged their game as NTR for having 1 scene in 1000 that ever crossed that one specific (and innacurate to NTR) definition.

 

[Ciaran8023]

Manscout, once again, able to put things into words better than I can.

I have followed like 3 different devs who have all at some point basically vented that the rabid "anti-ntr" crowd is the most insufferable one to write porn games for. And unfortunately you can't really just ignore them because real NTR is a very heavy and divisive fetish that most people do want to avoid, and this vocal minority goes the extra mile to shout everywhere about how it is a "NTR game" if you ever add any scenes between secondary characters, or a swinging scene, or just an orgy where the "wrong" set of characters got involved with each other.

the dev just had to know what that totally common sense limit was and tagged their game as NTR for having 1 scene in 1000 that ever crossed that one specific (and innacurate to NTR) definition

These are especially poignant. One of the games that I got into decently early on was Become a Rockstar. That game had a scene literally removed due to the outcry and mass vitriol from the aforementioned vocal minority.
What was the scene you might wonder?
One of the side characters was giving a blowjob to another dude before they had even met the MC. It wasn't even one of the main characters, she doesn't even have a fully fledged romantic storyline or ending in the game and has a total of like 4 scenes or something.

This is also a large part of my spiel about drawing a line in the sand somewhere, since as you say, you quite literally cannot even guess what some of these individuals interpret as NTR or not, and that's where sticking to the actual and functional meaning of the trope comes into play.

 

[Movikx]

mah dude, impressive how the conversation got everyone invested, the part where japanese think their idol (someone they have no actual contact) get involved and think its ntr is real incel shit, ntr should be the partner that know is being unfaithful and keep it a secret period, anything else is basically some kind of netorase (yes even the ones with girls/girls)

 

[pedro45]

Bro, they're right. NTR is quite literally just infidelity. The term for some reason got twisted by the forum for any girl in the vicinity of the mc getting fucked by someone else. But that's just asinine in general. If you have a crush irl, you're gonna call her a cheater for getting in a relationship with someone else? That's incel behaviour.

Netorare is infidelity. Netori is still infidelity but from a different perspective and netorase is swinging.

Dude, the term literally translates to "being taken." NTR isn't just limited to girlfriends and wives or romantic releationsips. I'm not the one saying this; there are literally thousands of NTR mangas where the people taken from the protagonists are their crushes, friends, mothers, and sisters. The term hasn't been changed by anyone; it's always been that way.

 

[Ciaran8023]

Dude, the term literally translates to "being taken." NTR isn't just limited to girlfriends and wives or romantic releationsips. I'm not the one saying this; there are literally thousands of NTR mangas where the people taken from the protagonists are their crushes, friends, mothers, and sisters. The term hasn't been changed by anyone; it's always been that way.

What it translates to in a literal sense means generally fuck all, what context it's used in means a lot more.
If you solely go by the literal translation, you could've just tried to argue that it means to take someone out to dinner, it just doesn't work as an argument.

Not to mention that the MC isn't, even at this point, that close to any of the characters. Just move on dude, it's a fools argument.

 

[Helloname65]

Hey, I really enjoyed this game so far and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for games that are similar to this one?

 

[Movikx]

Hey, I really enjoyed this game so far and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for games that are similar to this one?

i did like to know too, but i dont think there is another, but if u want a femboy being pounded by futas try Tales of Androgyny, its weekly updated

 

[pedro45]

What it translates to in a literal sense means generally fuck all, what context it's used in means a lot more.
If you solely go by the literal translation, you could've just tried to argue that it means to take someone out to dinner, it just doesn't work as an argument.

Not to mention that the MC isn't, even at this point, that close to any of the characters. Just move on dude, it's a fools argument.

yes because it is clearly a word used loosely and not for a SEXUAL fetish

 

[Nearphotison]

Seeing the sisters fool around is literally the best part of this game, and it needs more of it.

 

[Unknown User69]

Tbh the game is going in a good direction but updates are slow (consistent) but slow af

 

[Kimath]

Myself and others could still really use a working save with up to 0.14 done

 

[elchivo]

Tbh the game is going in a good direction but updates are slow (consistent) but slow af

Consistent if slow updates are still a lot better than what the majority of similar game projects get (nothing).
God, still over a month until the next update...