Do they meet in a WereWolf Hall?Funny thing about that... in Werewolf: the Apocalypse, a "moot" is a Werewolf social gathering.
(Hilary Mantel RIP)
- Thread starter Nine of Swords
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(Hilary Mantel RIP)
- Sep 18, 2021
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Even Dragon Age fails to do that.
The books/comics may try to avoid using pronouns for "The Warden" or "Hawke" to preserve player agency, but they still make assumptions. It's canonical that Hawke kills the Arishok, and that Alistair becomes king. If that didn't happen in your game you might find it annoying. But most people either come to terms with it, or just avoid reading the "expanded universe" entirely.
It's the same situation BioWare found itself in with Knights of the Old Republic - the games let you pick your main characters' gender (and you get a choice right at the beginning of KotOR2 to establish the gender/alignment of your main character in the first game), but they still made canonical decisions for gender (KotOR1 MC is male, KotOR2 MC is female, both were Light Side). So if you played through differently, your choices were ignored (which annoyed some people when they brought those characters back as NPCs in the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO).
As long as the games themselves respect player choice, it would probably defuse the majority of potential complaints. it might not please everyone, but what does?
Ironically, this might be the bigger problem.
I feel like most players are going to want a relatively "happy" ending for their main character, so having K___ Nelson fail would probably annoy people. For most major plot elements it might be better to default to the "best" outcome, while just giving as few details as possible about said outcome. So K___ solves the crime, but no one mentions who the killer was.
This is the main reason why games like Dragon Age tend to send their main character out of the spotlight after their game - it makes it easier to avoid having to refer to them. Leliana will refer to The Warden as "an old friend". Everyone just calls Hawke Hawke so their first name becomes unimportant (and without pronouns, gender doesn't matter either). Did Zevran live or die in DA:O? It doesn't really matter if he doesn't do anything important in a story afterwards. Is Alistair king, a Grey Warden, a drunk, or dead? Doesn't matter if he never shows up. Just vaguely refer to the King of Ferelden and the reader can fill in the blanks either way.
So as an example, don't bring K___ up at all unless it's important to the plot, or would seem really weird not to mention them (like a supporting character from Book One talking getting involved in another murder investigation, and being all like "Total deja vu!"). If K___ gets mentioned at all, try to be vague about the name and gender unless it's important (so, someone can refer to them as "an old friend of mine" and use "they" if the talk sounds awkward without pronouns). As long as you can be vague, one person can read it as their female version of Kylie, while someone else can read it as their version, who was a male they renamed "Jim Bob".
If the plot you want to write absolutely requires you to be explicit about who the main character was (or to have them show up as a character), just default to whatever works best for you (likely female Kylie), and just hope the readers will roll with it.
(Or you could go the BioWare route again, and do a poll asking players if they prefer male or female MC. Canon Shepard is usually assumed to be male because BioWare has said that something like 80% of all Mass Effect players played as male Shepard. So if more people played Mythos as the female MC, you'd be better off using that version of the character. But if 90% of players played as male, you'd probably want to go with that instead.)
As for love interests... I do feel like most people won't necessarily like the idea that K___ didn't romance anyone... and it's probably worse to assume K___ did hook up with someone, but "it didn't work out" (people complain about that happening in game and movie plots all the time, regardless of whether or not it might actually be something that happens all the time in real life). The best possible scenario might be to, again, simply never bring it up. If it has to come up at all, maybe just hint that K___ is currently in a happy relationship, but never mention with who (or how they met), so you have flexibility for players to assume it could be any of the in-game love interests, or even someone they met after the game. Sure, that still kind of steps on the toes of anyone who deliberately stayed single, but that's probably a smaller percentage of people.
Same thing for potential LIs from Book One who might show up in other stories. If they have to talk about their lovelife at all, have them just allude to being in a relationship without saying with who. So players can assume it's with their main character (if they romanced that LI), or it's with someoen else (if they avoided that LI).
It's definitely hard to juggle this sort of thing and still tell the stories you want, but if you do want to be respectful to the "canon" of the games (in the sense that there is no real canon), you want to try and remain as flexible as possible.
But if you have to fudge things here and there, it's probably find as long as it's not one of the major huge decisions. Those are the ones most likely to annoy people.
So, in the words of Rick Springfield, the point is probably moot.
For what it's worth, I don't really plan on having canon-Kylie be unsuccessful! That was just a really weird hypothetical.
I did plan on keeping the relationships vague if another MC takes over, and not have any of the love interests from Book One be love interests for anybody other than Kylie.
I'm leaning toward there being at least one other Kylie-MC game. For that one, I'm going to take a cue from KotOR 2's opening with some dialogue. Something like:
Tara: "What's up you big nerd?!"
Menu Options:
- "Is that just your code name for 'best friend'?"
- "I was hoping you'd stop calling me that when we started dating..."
- "Spam spam spam humbug."
That way you can establish their Book One relationship without me having to worry about trying to cross saves over.
I did plan on keeping the relationships vague if another MC takes over, and not have any of the love interests from Book One be love interests for anybody other than Kylie.
I'm leaning toward there being at least one other Kylie-MC game. For that one, I'm going to take a cue from KotOR 2's opening with some dialogue. Something like:
Tara: "What's up you big nerd?!"
Menu Options:
- "Is that just your code name for 'best friend'?"
- "I was hoping you'd stop calling me that when we started dating..."
- "Spam spam spam humbug."
That way you can establish their Book One relationship without me having to worry about trying to cross saves over.
- Sep 18, 2021
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That's generally a good way to handle things. Especially because it can be used to help establish world and character building simultaneously (so even people who never played the first game can start to get a feel for characters' personalities by how they act when asking the questions, and how they react to the answers). In KotOR2 the question scene was showing you what sort of person Atton was even as it was esablishing your main character from the previous game (same with the lightsaber color question scene).
Though there's also the option to start the game before anything happens with a "Hey, could you answer a few questions about how you completed Mythos 1?" questionnaire sort of thing, letting you set whatever flags you want to use for the new game (in my head I just see some sort of annoying fairy character acting as the fourth-wall breaking narrator asking those questions). Possibly with a DA2/Witcher 3 option to just pick "Ehh, I didn't play the first game, just give me your own default version of events". Because then you can just get all the questions out of the way early and not have to worry about them.
Which is better probably just depends on whether you feel like it's better to jump straight into the action without bogging players down in a lot of questions right off the bat.
This is probably a very, very good idea. People tend to get annoyed about that sort of thing.
Though it might be interesting if you made the MC of one game a possible LI for another. Even if that sort of potentially creates a weird vibe. And potentially craps on other relationships (maybe you can only date your past MC if they deliberately avoided romance in their own game, so it becomes almost a hidden easter egg sort of thing?).
I know the devs of Tales from the Borderlands said their main motivation for not having a romance option between the two lead characters (that the player alternates between controlling) is because they thought it would be weird for a player to essentially be dating themselves, but I would absolutely have loved being able to hook Rhys and Fiona up.
This is Mythos. I have plans for a scenario in which Kylie can be a love interest for Kylie/Kyle.
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Pssht, she's way too good for him.
- Nov 11, 2020
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First thing Nine of Swords, what the idea to post something not on a Friday?!
You have no mercy for old farts like me.
We need a well-established routine : dinner is at 5am, bedtime is at 9am, the red pill is on Mondays, Mythos posts are on Fridays...
Now I'm all messed up! What day is it today?
I play Kylie, so for me it's fine to stay with a female MC.
I fact, I was thinking female was the canon gender for this book of Mythos.
And that the option to play Kyle is just here for the players who prefer to play a male MC.
Because I know that a majority of male players prefer a male MC. And offering this option widen the base of your audiance.
But in the end, the best option for you is always the one that makes things easier.
I think it's better to lose some followers who really don't want to play a female MC, than having an odd story because a male MC won't fit well in some situations.
Or worst, that you're get lost in the development of the game because of the complexity of dealing with 2 MC.
Last, for the sake of non-English speakers on this thread, what "Spam spam spam humbug." means?
Edit: typo
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- Nov 11, 2020
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Well, Nine of Swords stat "...Kylie can be a love interest for Kylie/Kyle."
So, maybe we could have Kylie being a love interest for.. herself?
- Aug 9, 2020
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The beauty of self-love. But, we'd need a new tag, wouldn't we? Something like selfcest.So, maybe we could have Kylie being a love interest for.. herself?
Oh, that reference probably won't even make sense to most English speakers! "Spam spam spam humbug" is a cheat code for Ultima VI, because I am also old!Last, for the sake of non-English speakers on this thread, what "Spam spam spam humbug." means?
Well, Nine of Swords stat "...Kylie can be a love interest for Kylie/Kyle."
So, maybe we could have Kylie being a love interest for.. herself?
Indeed, this is what I was getting at. It blossomed from a joke I made ages ago that I made Kylie too pretty because so many people would rather have her as a love interest than the main character, so... why not do some magic twist so she can be both? Male MCs get their female counterpart, while female MCs get selfcest!
- Jun 8, 2020
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I'm even older - I was thinking "that's NOT how the Monty Python 'Spam" skit goes!"
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Haha... I forgot to address this part (I'd just gotten home from the Ninja Sex Party concert and was trying to reply while exhausted) - this wasn't a replacement for the Friday Update! It was a blog post, which I always do on Tuesdays just... not every Tuesday.First thing Nine of Swords, what the idea to post something not on a Friday?!
You have no mercy for old farts like me.
We need a well-established routine : dinner is at 5am, bedtime is at 9am, the red pill is on Mondays, Mythos posts are on Fridays...
Now I'm all messed up! What day is it today?
Tuesday is basically my "post Mythos stuff that's not the Friday Update" day. The stories, previews, interviews, and other random crap I do go up on Tuesdays.
Unless I feel like some other day.
I'm a professional, clearly.
Yessss! I'm sure that's why Lord British made that his cheat code.
For my senior Acting Arts project in high school I did a gender-bent Dead Parrot Sketch with a friend of mine.
- Sep 18, 2021
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Hah - I did a one-act play version of the Argument Clinic sketch in my senior year. I was John Cleese.
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Friday Update - October 7th, 2022
This week's guest speaker - B!
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I'm glad to hear that!!! For some reason, I worry that nobody likes B very much.
Funny enough, before I released Chapter One, I was worried nobody would like Tara — but now she's pretty consistently ranked among the most popular of the girls, so now I worry that nobody likes B!
- Sep 18, 2021
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I like B. If I'm going to be honest, I'd probably rank her just behind Tara and Mara. Which, now that I say it like that, makes me wonder if I have some sort of weird unsuspected fetish for people with rhyming names.
Now if you add Sara, Kara, Lara, and/or Dara as love interests in the next game and I start immediately crushing on them, I'm going to have to have a very long introspective look into my own psyche.
I feel attacked.
Don't feel attacked! People who dissect and analyze the game's story and lore are literally my target audience!!!