RPGM Completed N.P.C.Dreams [v1.12] [MadoroMe]

["WindDX "]

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[Romuulus]

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Oh yeah that too, true. It's been a while since I beat the game lol

 

[PitayaPear]

Spoiler: the skill

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Just so we're all clear, this isn't permanent. It lasts until you return to a crystal, at which point your stats return to normal. So you are clear to use the ability without worrying that it'll severely set back your progression.

Only four areas can be reached by normal means with zero flags tripped on your first run (the old country, yellow forest, angry mosquito place, annoying green filter). After fully exploring these areas you have four options for boss fights and no obvious way to bypass them... By contrast, you can explore nearly 2/3rds of Black Souls II at zero flags, so it would be sad to see that small of a roam in a game directly inspired by it. I was particularly sad because at least one enemy did have unique interactions when I "sequence broke" their encounter... Fortunately, I found a use case for a tool I thought was pointless. Several things I have seen shared about the game are highly misleading and imply you can only explore the full map at zero flags with NG+.

That "tool" is how you are supposed to explore the game with zero flags. I'm afraid you completely misunderstood fragmented fire, it isn't some 4th wall breaking cheat tool, but an integral part of the game's story. There are lines of dialogue and even scenes that you can only get while under the effect of that item, exploring with is isn't even an intended feature, it is a mandatory part of the game.

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It is also impossible to achieve the true ending without the use of fragmented fire, since the pathing required for the true ending makes using that item essential. Nevermind, I was wrong here. Still, with fragmented fire you can explore the entire map at 0 progression, which makes getting the true ending a lot easier.

I haven't solved achieving the alternate endings/true ending in a single cycle, and I don't think it's possible because the other big bosses are behind flags that do trigger. This should reduce the minimum number to two cycles from the guide's proposed three cycles though.

Man, this is why I am so against guides. They totally mindbreak people. Games like BlackSouls and NPC Dreams needs to be played with a completely open mind, instead of having an entrenched mental frame setup while playing. Guides encourage the creation of a said mental frame because it gives people the impression that they understand the gist of the game. Thus, for some people, guides actually make things harder (unless everything is written down in plain text for them, which then ruins the whole fun of the game).

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Edit: Fairy forest is gated on both sides and I haven't found a way break into there out-of-sequence yet. Otherwise, I was able to chart a route through everywhere else that appears to be accessible normally.

I assume by fairy forest you meant Melf's Garden? You can pass through the gate with fragmented fire, you just didn't try it.

I'm not sure how many scenes have this feature in the end, since even in Fragmented Fire mode, many NPCs respond as if you are "visible."

Intended btw. The NPCs who don't respond, like the mobs, do so for a reason. The NPCs who do respond do so because they are different. These minor mechanics revealing character lore is what makes this game so goddamn kino.

Anyways, I left this wall of text just to clarify some factually incorrect stuff that I'm seeing on this thread. I'd really appreciate it if you all can edit your comments to fix the aforementioned mistakes, as I don't want people to get the wrong impression.

 

["WindDX "]

It is also impossible to achieve the true ending without the use of fragmented fire, since the pathing required for the true ending makes using that item essential.

I'm pretty sure it's not(?). I never used it and got the True End anyway. Never cheated in any items either. Only started using it after I got the True End. Always thought Fragmented Fire was just a cool little thing for some extra lore but I never needed it.

 

[ScionOfGoldenFlame]

I'm pretty sure it's not(?). I never used it and got the True End anyway. Never cheated in any items either. Only started using it after I got the True End. Always thought Fragmented Fire was just a cool little thing for some extra lore but I never needed it.

Same, I also got the true ending without the Fragmented Fire. I'm sure its helpful, but I completely forgot it existed and muscled through the game just fine.

 

[ningen94]

Isn't "Crediur" "Crediul" like the word "credulous"?

 

[WaitingForGlobes]

Hello, I just cleared(?) the game (gone everywhere I could, killed everything I found) but it proposed me to start a new cycle, so I guess there is more to discover.

I start reading a bit here but stopped to avoid big spoilers (or at least spoilers that I could understand now), so I'm asking directly : What should I do from here ? I guess there's something more to do than just killing everything again.

I've also seen that people talked about fragmented fire and it seems important. What is it ? I don't remember seeing it, did I miss something or is it something that I should get later ?

 

[Romuulus]

Hello, I just cleared(?) the game (gone everywhere I could, killed everything I found) but it proposed me to start a new cycle, so I guess there is more to discover.

I start reading a bit here but stopped to avoid big spoilers (or at least spoilers that I could understand now), so I'm asking directly : What should I do from here ? I guess there's something more to do than just killing everything again.

I've also seen that people talked about fragmented fire and it seems important. What is it ? I don't remember seeing it, did I miss something or is it something that I should get later ?

The game has a progression system. Each boss increases that progression meter by one. You can check its level in the Gwirionedd Orphanage by looking at the amount of the lit torches on the walls.

Try interacting with the NPCs and killing certain bosses as early as you can. There is more for you to discover. The Fragmented Fire mode can help you with that.

The Fragmented Fire mode basically makes you into an invisible ghost. You can turn it on by interacting with the blue fire on the right in the Orphanage. It lets you run around the world without triggering boss fights and lets you go through doors and certain blocked entrances. You can still interact with certain NPCs in this mode, but you can't pick up items and can't engage in fights.

Also, another tip for you. The Gwirionedd Orphanage is now unlocked permanently on the new cycle. You can exit it to reach certain areas faster from the other end of the map.

If you're still really confused about what to do, there's a guide I wrote in the game files (it's at the bottom of the text document). I would advise against using it unless you are really frustrated, though. It might spoil your experience a little bit so use it only as a last resort.

 

[WaitingForGlobes]

Well, I reached the true ending and since I wasn't sure what I did to reach it, I consulted the guide just to see that I did everything in the same order (except stage 3 which I got in the first cycle) by pure luck.

 

[fnaggers]

exploring with is isn't even an intended feature, it is a mandatory part of the game. [snip]

You have completely missed the point of my post and your own is riddled with inaccuracies. You don't have to use fragmented fire in order to get the true ending (only a single boss fight is required to access the entire map even if you don't use fragmented fire at all, permitting triggering the Risu fight on one flag in NG). You are simply wrong. Something that makes your claims even worse is that there's a more helpful post on this very page:

Also, another tip for you. The Gwirionedd Orphanage is now unlocked permanently on the new cycle. You can exit it to reach certain areas faster from the other end of the map.

Contrast with:

It is also impossible to achieve the true ending without the use of fragmented fire, since the pathing required for the true ending makes using that item essential.

You don't have to use fragmented fire to complete the game's true ending at all, even if you are playing normally as a normal player would. They simply discover it is openable on NG+. Opening the orphanage doors with fragmented fire is not the normal way to do it and that's why I was being intentionally vague about this function of fragmented fire: it's a cool easter egg for people who want to touch more of the game with zero progression. In other words, a challenge run/exploration feature. You are acting as though this is necessary in any way to simply play "right" but I only mentioned it due to my interest in the game's mechanics.

Using fragmented fire to get out early on 0/1 flags is a unique thing that you can do on the first lap/NG, and there is little to no reward for doing so - you could simply open the doors on NG+.
The guide implied NG+ was the only way to open the doors before fighting any bosses, and so in my original post (back in February) I was pointing out that statement was not true in case people cared for challenge reasons. How did you, PitayaPear, read my posts, which say "zero flags" or "zero progress" over and over and over, and not realize that my posts were seeing how far you can get without triggering those flags? Not in terms of impermanent exploration in fragmented fire state, but in unlocking the map, loot, fights, etc. out of order.
Do you know what bosses you can fight without triggering flags? I do.
Do you know what NPCs do have unique dialogue if you encounter them "out of order" or from unusual directions? I do.
Do you know what the cap is for collectable equipment and items without triggering any flags? I do.
How far can you go in SL1 before game mechanics stop you? (the answer is "you can finish the whole game" in this case)
It goes on and on.

The intended playthrough of the game is to explore the map without using fragmented fire, or only using it sporadically and cluelessly, on your first run. [snip]

All of the above I have shared is a simple expression of love of the game and the genre, and all of it I did on my "first playthrough." If Black Souls was your first exploration RPG I understand your narrow focus on the game's story over its mechanics, but please reconsider your idea of what an "intended" play experience should look like. These games are not just inspired by Dark Souls, and for many years the "intended" play experience in the Japan indie sphere was seen more like how I'm playing than how you are.

Other roles for fragmented fire in that kind of challenge run... the map is not big enough to justify exploring using the fragmented fire state at this time as opposed to simply evading enemies. Maybe it will be with the DLCs, but it's not there yet.
You can cash in on certain merchants early, but why would you do this paused when you can just walk up to them normally if you don't suck? Jogging the full map and grabbing every item on the floor/clearing every non-progression fight only took around 3 hours. Wrapping through everything in fragmented fire state would add an unnessecary hour or two from that perspective.

Fragmented fire simply didn't have much use for me until I discovered one very specific use that I was intentionally avoiding sharing outright in this thread because

Games like BlackSouls and NPC Dreams needs to be played with a completely open mind, instead of having an entrenched mental frame setup while playing.

Fortunately you're here to say it outright and spoil people so I can rest easy just explaining what I was being oblique about before. Same with location names that you unhelpfully translate from being deliberately vague allusions anyone who has completed the game will recognize to their ingame name...

My posts in this thread were sharing details explicitly for those trying challenge/exploration runs. I was even critiquing some statements included in the guide (why I mentioned it at all), because in my experimentation I found things that were incorrect or misleading. My post was not concerned with diagetic lore or story beats, it was about the challenge and whether the tool helped the challenge. Due to the strict limitations, it appeared at first the answer was "no," but the unique interaction with the orphanage doors opens up much of the game so it turned out to be key to attaining access to much of the map, and it also directly contradicted the guide's statements that you needed NG+, as I explain above.

I assume by fairy forest you meant Melf's Garden? You can pass through the gate with fragmented fire, you just didn't try it.

Worse... using fragmented fire to get into the forest serves no purpose for the challenge run as far as I can tell because it's gated on both sides by boss fights at zero flags. I did pass through the gate with fragmented fire, but I did not find any unique interactions that would allow me to explore the area and collect the "bonfire" without triggering a boss. Maybe there's some event you can perform to bypass one or both fights without triggering either boss, but I have poured over every map at this point and I have not found one. The only ways I could see you bringing Melf's Garden up is if (1) you don't know the game very well, (2) you missed so utterly the point of my post your reply is rendered gibberish as a result, or (3) both. It is one of the very few areas you cannot apparently collect or fully explore on NG low%.

I hope you spend more time reading posts you respond to instead of sharing "factually incorrect information" [sic] and there would be nothing wrong with editing or deleting your own post to address your own "mistakes." Honestly...

Edit: There was a brief back-and-forth because it looked like I was responding to Romuulus, who is a helpful user who provided a guide for new players and who has been around a good deal longer. I did have a point in the guide I clarified wasn't quite accurate, but it's "not accurate" in a way that literally only matters to people doing challenge runs.
In this post I am responding explicitly to PitayaPear, but I neglected to include exact quotes to the things I was refuting. I have added these quotes to clarify.

 

[Romuulus]

Friend, my post was quoting your own as an example of better advice. The person I was actually responding to (PitayaPear) implied that you had to use fragmented fire to open the doors at the orphanage and therefore it was a necessary feature, but most people find out that the doors are permanently opened after they go to NG+.
That's what you encouraged the new player to try on this very page, and so I put it in the post to contrast.
None of the rest of my post is directed at you, or has anything consequential to do with your own guide, don't worry about it and sorry for the trouble.

All good, it was just a misunderstanding as you quoted a lot of people in your reply. I apologize as well. Deleted the post.

 

[fnaggers]

All good, it was just a misunderstanding as you quoted a lot of people in your reply. I apologize as well. Deleted the post.

I'm going to add more quotes from PitayaPear in that post so there's not any more trouble, on reread I can totally see how you got that impression. Have a great one!

 

[Romuulus]

Edit: There was a brief back-and-forth because it looked like I was responding to Romuulus, who is a helpful user who provided a guide for new players and who has been around a good deal longer. I did have a point in the guide I clarified wasn't quite accurate, but it's "not accurate" in a way that literally only matters to people doing challenge runs.
In this post I am responding explicitly to PitayaPear, but I neglected to include exact quotes to the things I was refuting. I have added these quotes to clarify.

Yup, it's more clear now (although I admit that I didn't notice you were quoting me in contrast with someone else which I feel is more my fault than yours). Again, sorry for this little scuffle.

 

[PitayaPear]

Same, I also got the true ending without the Fragmented Fire. I'm sure its helpful, but I completely forgot it existed and muscled through the game just fine.

Ahhhh ya. Now that I think about it if you just rush your way to Maruoris backwards from the Orphanage after a new game you can reach him within progression 3, oof mb lol. It's been fixed.

You have completely missed the point of my post and your own is riddled with inaccuracies. You don't have to use fragmented fire....

Bruh what a long-ahh triggered sperging. From skimming all that it's clear that you're a midwit who think yourself as some kind of lore genius (despite not even completing the game) and is unironically malding that I critiqued you. I literally made just one mistake in my reply (which I fixed) and you just latched onto that again and again, meanwhile you ignored or twisted all the other stuff I said (and haven't even fixed your own factually incorrect comments), so pathetic.

Just responding to a few random examples that stuck out from that wall of text:

Worse... using fragmented fire to get into the forest serves no purpose for the challenge run...

What challenge run? The 1-SL challenge run you talked about in another comment? Irrelevant. The challenge where you progress "normally"? The whole point of my comment is that using fragmented fire is normal. Also calling not using fragmented fire a "challenge" is just really weird, especially considering that even according to your own comment you didn't even know about it until much later, so it's a challenge that you didn't even know about?

but in unlocking the map, loot, fights, etc. out of order... but I did not find any unique interactions that would allow me to explore the area and collect the "bonfire"

Also wdym you cannot collect the "bonfire" or unlock stuff out of order with fragmented fire... Don't tell me you don't know that you can exit fragmented fire at any time... which allows you to collect items and bonfires... bruh... Ok that honestly makes a lot of sense why you think it is worthless lol.

Do you know what bosses you can fight without triggering flags? I do.
Do you know what NPCs do have unique dialogue if you encounter them "out of order" or from unusual directions? I do.
Do you know what the cap is for collectable equipment and items without triggering any flags? I do.

BROOOOOOO what is this Navy Seal Copypasta shit man, I am literally dying. Stop lolcowmaxxing on a fucking h-game thread, preserve your dignity.

 

[fnaggers]

From skimming all that it's clear that you're a midwit who think yourself as some kind of lore genius (despite not even completing the game) and is unironically malding that I critiqued you.

The irony of an blatantly illiterate retard calling anyone a "midwit" is palpable.
Edit: also, I have no plan of "fixing" my "factually incorrect comments" because you can't point to a single one. Die mad.

 

[ScionOfGoldenFlame]

The irony of an blatantly illiterate retard calling anyone a "midwit" is palpable.
Edit: also, I have no plan of "fixing" my "factually incorrect comments" because you can't point to a single one. Die mad.

Truthfully, I find your air of condescending superiority far more insufferable. Rather then someone who is able to admit to making mistakes and taking things with a humorous stride, you find it suitable to zero in on perceived grievances to extrapolate your beef while ignoring all attempts at explanation from the opposing party. You're just making yourself look bad, to put kindly.

 

[noname111111]

The irony of an blatantly illiterate retard calling anyone a "midwit" is palpable.
Edit: also, I have no plan of "fixing" my "factually incorrect comments" because you can't point to a single one. Die mad.

He told you everything he found incorrect in your comment.
If the best "response" of yours is throwing insults whit out elaborating you are 100% wrong.

 

[skdnsjqbkndosln]

Just finished the true ending and that was a fun ride. Imo the main problem of this game is that it's too much in the shadow of Black souls. It's one of those game where the H is absolutly not necessary, the whole story could work without it and especially the "headpat" option is absolutly not nefessary nor integral to the plot (countrary to black souls) and it kind feels like it's just there to look like BS. Still a wonderfull game but I wished it's stand on his own legs a bit more instead of trying to hard to be like BS, the dev really don't need it

 

[Alex4568]

How to kill eye hunter deya dale

 

[chengue]

when is the dlc going to come out