I think this depends a bit on ones own point of view / how you interpret the scenes to be honest. As I don't think it is crystal clear if she lost control or can control her self. To me it looked like she barley stopped her self from losing control the first time with the MC, I don't think she was fully in control when she stopped her self. Then she totally lost control again with the MC during the training. So to me it feels more like something she is struggling with than something she has full control over. Which makes me question why he left her alone at the adventure's guild
I agree there is no way to fix killing someone but if she can learn to control her self better in the future I do think she can redeem herself personally unless her personality changes for the worst. Cause right now she is a kind and caring person with a big heart and I think if she spends her immortal lifetime helping others whenever she can it would out weigh most of the bad she may cause or did cause unless she goes on a killing spree in the future.
Idk man. She's selfish. She knew she will become a monster who will kill people for her thirst still she decided to go for it just to start walking again. She won't even try to make it right. She will just go on her way as if it was just a mistake.
You said it yourself that she barely controlled herself the first time which shows that she can actually control her so the 2nd time when she finally killed the girl she decided to let go of her control.
Would you turn yourself a monster just to start walking again?
Idk man. She's selfish. She knew she will become a monster who will kill people for her thirst still she decided to go for it just to start walking again. She won't even try to make it right. She will just go on her way as if it was just a mistake.
You said it yourself that she barely controlled herself the first time which shows that she can actually control her so the 2nd time when she finally killed the girl she decided to let go of her control.
Would you turn yourself a monster just to start walking again?
I mean you aren't entirely wrong but I do think alot of it is how we interpret things. Which is part of what makes AVN's so great. I dont see her as someone that will just go on her way as if it was just a mistake at least not without the MC to talk her out of guilt tripping her self. But yeah you are right on that part cause the MC will probably always talk her out of any future mistakes she may make. But I still think as of right now she is a good enough person with a big heart she would honestly help anyone in need when possible to try to make up for any of the bad over the course of her lifetime. The question really becomes does the MC allow her or talk her out of that or does her personality take a left turn and she becomes a totally different person.
About her turning her self into a monster. Yeah that was selfish but I don't think she did it entirely to walk I mean yeah that was a big part of it. I think a bigger part of it was the MC being there clouded her judgement , she probably also doesn't want to be a burden to him so she probably felt a bit emotional cause of that. As she was always doubting her self before she was paralyzed thinking she was in the way and a burden to the MC IRRC ( I need to replay this to recall that aspect correctly). So yeah still selfish but I see it as there was a bit more to just being able to walk again.
I mean you aren't entirely wrong but I do think alot of it is how we interpret things. Which is part of what makes AVN's so great. I dont see her as someone that will just go on her way as if it was just a mistake at least not without the MC to talk her out of guilt tripping her self. But yeah you are right on that part cause the MC will probably always talk her out of any future mistakes she may make. But I still think as of right now she is a good enough person with a big heart she would honestly help anyone in need when possible to try to make up for any of the bad over the course of her lifetime. The question really becomes does the MC allow her or talk her out of that or does her personality take a left turn and she becomes a totally different person.
I have a hard time placing much faith in the MC when he's joking about assaulting people in a dark alley in the hope Eliza will learn to not *quite* kill them.
I get that Eliza is the game's main LI, but that doesn't mean the lives of the background characters are literally meaningless compared to her. This whole vampire twist has been a poorly thought out train wreck, mostly by the characters but at least partially by the author as well.
I have a hard time placing much faith in the MC when he's joking about assaulting people in a dark alley in the hope Eliza will learn to not *quite* kill them. View attachment 3299661
I get that Eliza is the game's main LI, but that doesn't mean the lives of the background characters are literally meaningless compared to her. This whole vampire twist has been a poorly thought out train wreck, mostly by the characters but at least partially by the author as well.
I get that Eliza is the game's main LI, but that doesn't mean the lives of the background characters are literally meaningless compared to her. This whole vampire twist has been a poorly thought out train wreck, mostly by the characters but at least partially by the author as well.
I think it would've been excellent writing having the vampire arc tied to an MC on the dark path, but I guess the branching caused by the presence of vampirism is a significant amount of work that isn't quite feasible to pull off.
The next best way of tying Eliza's vampirism to the morality of the MC is determining how evil she becomes (i.e. outright killing her victims vs. just sustaining herself enough.
Yes, he does. It's called emotionally blackmailing. She says it very clearly: "I don't want that. What if I can't handle it?" What is MC, the bastard, responding? "I wouldn't have brought it back and presented to you if there was even the slightest doubt in my mind that you couldn't handle it. Eliza, you're the strongest person I've ever met. I will see you through this, if you choose it." Great, push even more buttons to make her feel like she'll let you down if she doesn't, you pissant! You're not the one who has to live with having to harm other people in order to drink their blood!
MC is such a bastard. She was an emotional wreck. She was insecure. MC just pushed all the buttons. Thats "forcing", dude!
Look in the unabridged script and see it for yourself. I've marked the important statements. It begins when they start speaking about the chalice and how it helps and ends with her drinking the blood. I've changed nothing. Not a single word. You can verify it yourself by playing the scene again. This is the scene:
I was so naive and thought he took the chalice back to Luxenford so that they can examine it and search about ways to use it without that side effect. But no. Just put in on the table, let Dalen fill his blood in, and let her drink it. What a hero he is. Why didn't they just take their time to examine? The next day Dalen is sitting there and reads tons of papers to find a solution. How about do this BEFORE you turn this poor woman into a monster which kills innocent people when it can't control herself?
Have to stick up for the MC, bae. Just have to.
MC is not a Man, MC is a nephilim and for all Diablo fans out there - OP warriors that the angels who birthed them had to hunt into extinction - culminating in The Allfather of Nephilims backstabbing The All Mother of them all to put a permanent end to everything.
MC is a magical being with serious anger issues even at the beginning of the game, always on the edge - who would not be if they found their parents murdered and was taken in by some guy telling MC that the killer of his earthly parents was looking for him too?
Did anyone care about the murders? Did anyone go find or punnish the murderer?
NO!
So why are you chastising MC for living in this heartless murderous world?
Becasue MC is still alive?
Yes, he does. It's called emotionally blackmailing. She says it very clearly: "I don't want that. What if I can't handle it?" What is MC, the bastard, responding? "I wouldn't have brought it back and presented to you if there was even the slightest doubt in my mind that you couldn't handle it. Eliza, you're the strongest person I've ever met. I will see you through this, if you choose it." Great, push even more buttons to make her feel like she'll let you down if she doesn't, you pissant! You're not the one who has to live with having to harm other people in order to drink their blood!
MC is such a bastard. She was an emotional wreck. She was insecure. MC just pushed all the buttons. Thats "forcing", dude!
Look in the unabridged script and see it for yourself. I've marked the important statements. It begins when they start speaking about the chalice and how it helps and ends with her drinking the blood. I've changed nothing. Not a single word. You can verify it yourself by playing the scene again. This is the scene:
I was so naive and thought he took the chalice back to Luxenford so that they can examine it and search about ways to use it without that side effect. But no. Just put in on the table, let Dalen fill his blood in, and let her drink it. What a hero he is. Why didn't they just take their time to examine? The next day Dalen is sitting there and reads tons of papers to find a solution. How about do this BEFORE you turn this poor woman into a monster which kills innocent people when it can't control herself?
MC is not the moral compass. MC is the hulk in those early movies with all the anger issues of a young adult thrust in a cruel hateful murderous world.
Yes, he does. It's called emotionally blackmailing. She says it very clearly: "I don't want that. What if I can't handle it?" What is MC, the bastard, responding? "I wouldn't have brought it back and presented to you if there was even the slightest doubt in my mind that you couldn't handle it. Eliza, you're the strongest person I've ever met. I will see you through this, if you choose it." Great, push even more buttons to make her feel like she'll let you down if she doesn't, you pissant! You're not the one who has to live with having to harm other people in order to drink their blood!
MC is such a bastard. She was an emotional wreck. She was insecure. MC just pushed all the buttons. Thats "forcing", dude!
Look in the unabridged script and see it for yourself. I've marked the important statements. It begins when they start speaking about the chalice and how it helps and ends with her drinking the blood. I've changed nothing. Not a single word. You can verify it yourself by playing the scene again. This is the scene:
I was so naive and thought he took the chalice back to Luxenford so that they can examine it and search about ways to use it without that side effect. But no. Just put in on the table, let Dalen fill his blood in, and let her drink it. What a hero he is. Why didn't they just take their time to examine? The next day Dalen is sitting there and reads tons of papers to find a solution. How about do this BEFORE you turn this poor woman into a monster which kills innocent people when it can't control herself?
I feel that even tho i still love Eliza to death despite everything + this is still one of my favorites games cause of the story. But yeah no doubt she was way better before her changes. I'm just hoping she can learn to live with her new changes. As I thought she was one of the best romances or at the very least one of the most adorable and wholesome ones ive seen or played. From what ive played her personality isn't changed yet so im remaining hopeful that doesn't get changed but if her personality changes to much then yeah forever ruined for me.
I wouldn't judge something we don't that she kill the woman I haven't seen it myself besides the mc think about killing not sure why you you think the girl won't think the same they aren't saint not everyone perfect special the game nephilim reason good and evil in the game by your choice
Idk man. She's selfish. She knew she will become a monster who will kill people for her thirst still she decided to go for it just to start walking again. She won't even try to make it right. She will just go on her way as if it was just a mistake.
You said it yourself that she barely controlled herself the first time which shows that she can actually control her so the 2nd time when she finally killed the girl she decided to let go of her control.
Would you turn yourself a monster just to start walking again?
We gotta remember, this has been built in for a while. This is why she got crippled and the point of the whole pirate journey, for better or worse it's gotta be pretty key to the story and not just levelling up a companion. We have to take a bit of a leap of faith on this one.
My biggest issue was how quickly they made their decision. OK from Elizas POV it makes more sense, she's felt useless and wants to protect MC, it's an act of desperation fuelled by emotion but is MC really so desperate to see her become a vampire?
The way he dealt with her victims seemed perfectly in line with his pretty casual approach to vampirism in general.
We could speculate how this Eliza situation plays out in a good way.
If he has to make a decision to kill her or not, that would be very dramatic and character defining.
Her vampirism could be key to the whole plot, we get story value, they kick some ass together and they find a way to turn her back? (Disney version)
She could act as a devil on the shoulder for key choices. Maybe it's part of the baddies scheme (forgot his name), cripple Eliza, have her become a vampire and help corrupt MC. It's a stretch I know.
She killed an innocent woman. This woman was a living and feeling person. She had a family. She had friends. Eliza is a killer now. She has to go. But the real asshole is MC who forced her to do it. There's no good path. Only the evil dark path. MC is not a good being. What kind of asshole forces a loved one to turn into a monster just because she can't walk? I'm rooting for Taron. MC is the baddie.
She could act as a devil on the shoulder for key choices. Maybe it's part of the baddies scheme (forgot his name), cripple Eliza, have her become a vampire and help corrupt MC. It's a stretch I know.
I keep on seeing this claim.
That she needs to be his equal in combat prowess or she is "holding him back".
This is some really ass backwards thinking of "strong independent whamons"
Women are not pokemon. They don't need to all be strong combatants.
Protecting a loved one is not "being held back"
This is not some general diatribe about strong women
In this game's story it's a fact she was holding him back. She was an easy target and a ruthless opponent took advantage of that. After that she was even weaker than before and obviously even more at risk. Unless the whole game is him playing bodyguard, she was an obvious achille's heel for MC.
It's not a novel concept really, why do you think so many fantasy heroes have secret identities? Because it's easy to take them out by targeting their loved ones.
This is not some general diatribe about strong women
In this game's story it's a fact she was holding him back. She was an easy target, and a ruthless opponent took advantage of that. After that she was even weaker than before and obviously even more at risk. Unless the whole game is him playing bodyguard, she was an obvious achille's heel for MC.
It's not a novel concept really, why do you think so many fantasy heroes have secret identities? Because it's easy to take them out by targeting their loved ones.
This does however bring up another issue in the writing/script.
If you try your hardest...have a lot of patience, grit your teeth, bite your tongue...pull your hair out...you can just about avoid her as a love interest. However, she will always be your best buddy now (cos reasons...and ole' mans daughter)....
When you are supposed to be single mindedly concentrating and working on finding who killed your parents. You could leave her in town, she is looked after, safe (just as you promised your savior and mentor)....but noooooo.....
Gotta make her a distraction, even if you care little for her (which, that option does exist, no matter how much the dev tries to force you into not taking it). She is only holding us/the MC back because the story makes it like that, that we care so much about her we have to keep her around.
This does however bring up another issue in the writing/script.
If you try your hardest...have a lot of patience, grit your teeth, bite your tongue...pull your hair out...you can just about avoid her as a love interest. However, she will always be your best buddy now (cos reasons...and ole' mans daughter)....
When you are supposed to be single mindedly concentrating and working on finding who killed your parents. You could leave her in town, she is looked after, safe (just as you promised your savior and mentor)....but noooooo.....
Gotta make her a distraction, even if you care little for her (which, that option does exist, no matter how much the dev tries to force you into not taking it). She is only holding us/the MC back because the story makes it like that, that we care so much about her we have to keep her around.
That's understandable though. You gotta have a core story and that core story would have been really boring, if it was just him flying solo and banging chicks we never see again after he left town. It adds some emotional stake in the characters. Which apparently works judging from all the whining.
