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Net Neutrality (US)

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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Jun 10, 2017
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basically the same thing... as they have some equity shares in isp company (heck we only have one major company)...
Sorry to hear that :(

Still another reason why we must all feel concerned even when it can't happen to us, individually speaking.
Internet is not made of "I", but of "us" (its different communities), and whatever the condition of net-neutrality in our own country, each community will be hit ; loosing their main sites, their main members, their larger fan base, and things like this. Not only because of the USA, but also because of countries like yours, which will certainly not stop now that "even in the USA it's a thing".
And here, it's not like for the Patreon problem, people can't expect for an alternative to suddenly rise :(
 

johndoe1545

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May 5, 2017
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Sorry to hear that :(

Still another reason why we must all feel concerned even when it can't happen to us, individually speaking.
Internet is not made of "I", but of "us" (its different communities), and whatever the condition of net-neutrality in our own country, each community will be hit ; loosing their main sites, their main members, their larger fan base, and things like this. Not only because of the USA, but also because of countries like yours, which will certainly not stop now that "even in the USA it's a thing".
And here, it's not like for the Patreon problem, people can't expect for an alternative to suddenly rise :(
i get ya... but i guess its depend on country... me here are basically controlled by gov (no tariff control though) just will be spying on ya if ya talk shit on your gov...
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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i get ya...
It wasn't for you, more for those who goes all, "I don't care, it doesn't concern me". I was part of them in the past, before the reality of what I can loose hit me.
 

jpsimon

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Apr 3, 2017
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I got this back from my congressman yesterday:
"December 8, 2017

Dear Mr. Simon:

Thank you for taking the time to contact me about your concerns with Net Neutrality rules. Hearing from constituents on issues of concern is important to me as I work to represent our district.

The Federal government has continually attempted to overregulate and overtake the Internet. It is deceptive to use the terms "Net Neutrality" and "Title II" interchangeably. The FCC's 2015 Open Internet Order was a power grab that would have led to higher costs for consumers. The federal government and tech companies are the only ones who benefit from these rules, not the American people. In fact, the 2015 Order does not even apply to "Edge providers" such as Google, Netflix, and Twitter, who are fully able to block content.

I have led the fight in Congress against the Obama Administration's Net Neutrality regulations since they were first proposed in 2010 by former FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski. After the first order was struck down by a Federal Appeals Court in January of 2014, FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler issued a new Order in 2015 to implement President Obama's Net Neutrality rules.

In November of this year, FCC Chairman Ajit Pai initiated efforts to roll back Title II regulation of the internet. I agree with Chairman Pai that "Net neutrality is a 'solution that won't work to a problem that doesn't exist.'" I will keep your concerns in mind as Congress works alongside the FCC to create legislation that ensures safety and accessibility.

Please know that I appreciate both your time and interest in contacting me about this issue. As Congress reviews this and related issues, I will continue to keep your views in mind. Please feel free to visit our website ( ) where you can sign up for our email update, learn about constituent services, and find the latest legislative news and critical information that affects and concerns the people of Tennessee.


My Best,

Marsha Blackburn
Member of Congress"
 

Benn Swagger

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2016
1,520
2,139
Perhaps about you, but not necessarily about us.
Yeah ... maybe I'm neglect the fact a few countries didn't succumb to USA and their cronies. But for my country, we are pretty much owned by the World Bank for our huge debt. Mining, Oil refinery, Communication and Laws follow the World Bank recommendation ... and who own the World Bank but USA. Since our main Telecom share holder already own by them, I'm pretty sure what USA do will be implied to ours too. So, good luck with your Independent country, hope they can withstand for it if the worst comes to reality. Me and the rest of 3rd World countries will surely became their bitches, as always.
 

loqex

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2016
1,044
542
I would rather my ISP not utilize my fapping patterns to target my ads. (They probably already do that, but still!)
Well.... you could always just start searching for goat sex and monkey sex and skew the data your isp is amassing. Sure would be interesting to see how they target you for adult ads and offerings.... probably a script out there that can do all that during the day while you are out working.
 
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The_Lust_Within

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Dec 8, 2017
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I'm not from the US, but this is an issue that will really affect everyone. And the problem is that if net neutrality dies people will continue to go on with their lives as if nothing happened because ISP's will presumably not be stupid and immediately start throttling sites en masse all of a sudden, it will be subtle and over time.
 

muttdoggy

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Aug 6, 2016
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With net neutrality, I'm more worried about its effect on internet speeds to the consumers. I'm certain there will be throttling of services and certain customers if it's repealed.

Now for a Hilarious Comcast Review...

''Dec 8, 2017

by Doug Reibold on

Comcast Ass Raped Me


I spent 5 years in prison with no cable or internet.I managed to not get ass raped.It took Comcast 14 days to fuck me with shitty service,bad billing practices,poor customer service,and my asshole has yet to recover.I need a crisis trauma counsellor now I think.Fuck you Comcast,if I wanted someone to lie to me and take my money I have this thing called an ex wife.''
 

treos

Member
Oct 19, 2017
192
92

of course they voted to repeal it no matter how much the american people said they do not want them to do so. they're corporate assholes who don't give a damn about anything unless it means getting more money.

nice knowing you, internet. if the prices start going up then i'll be dropping off the radar suddenly at some point...probably.
 

ThunderZoo

Member
Aug 16, 2016
247
401
of course they voted to repeal it no matter how much the american people said they do not want them to do so. they're corporate assholes who don't give a damn about anything unless it means getting more money.

nice knowing you, internet. if the prices start going up then i'll be dropping off the radar suddenly at some point...probably.
Yeah, I was appalled...how can the USA be described as a democratic country? Supporters of both wings were against this, but lobby won anyway...

I think at the beginning nothing is gonna happen (to avoid more protests), then providers will propose very cheap offers with only "Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp available" or only the big websites.
A lot of "normies" will choose those, offers with "All the internet available" will get expensive as fuck... and then little websites will die because not enough people will visit them and the ads revenue won't be enough to keep them open...

Let's just hope Americans will fight :)
 

Tokyoman117

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Sep 28, 2017
16
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sooooooooo... who wants to come to australia? as long as the giant spiders don't get you, we have tons of benefits
 

treos

Member
Oct 19, 2017
192
92
sooooooooo... who wants to come to australia? as long as the giant spiders don't get you, we have tons of benefits
i've seen pics of your spiders. you'd need boots and leather gloves to fight those monsters. >.< damn huge ass spiders...

the worst i've ever encountered here in oklahoma were tarantulas though we haven't seen any of those in years. big furry spiders.
 

Cyan

Member
Jul 25, 2017
126
551
The only great thing about the repeal of net neutrality is all the memes around that turd Ajit pai.

I find them hilariously entertaining.
 

Dragoman

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Jun 8, 2017
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Our country(India) is actually in favour of net neutrality and the Telecom regulator in our country has stated that no service provider will charge discriminatory tariffs for data services on the basis of content although not for "emergency purposes" i suppose. Actually my ISP does block sites especially xvideos :mad: although it can be bypassed but still it is not cool to block it.We are supportive of net neutrality and every people has same rights to use the internet.
 
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Silver

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I think the arguments against Net Neutrality are more based on fear/uncertainty than facts. People are scared WHAT IF ISPs are going to charge more for certain services, block or throttle the websites of competitors. I think there are ups and downs of Net Neutrality, but most of the websites don't bother to discuss the downs, but more focus on ups.

When ISPs are going to charge less for specific services, let's say like facebook? because facebook keeps paying them a decent amount of money for a decent bandwidth allocation, it will help certain people to purchase facebook only packages from ISPs, so they don't have to spend more money for other services like google plus, instagram. It's like how you could purchase a cheap iPhone from a network carrier, which is locked to the specific carrier's network. Someone can argue ISPs are not going to reduce the prices, but if it's not reduced it's hard to expect facebook is going to pay for ISPs, after all what is the point of paying when ISPs don't give any benefit to customers in return? So I believe there will be website oriented packages from every ISP at a cheap price like facebook package, whatsapp package, google plus package. This is more beneficial to poor/middle class people because they can use specific services at a cheap price. Also some businesses can come with agreements with ISPs to release packages which grant users to access it only. This is beneficial to certain people like farmers, educators, students. Farmers can access a limited set of websites which educate them with latest techs, and all other information, educators can access to websites like wikipedia, stackoverflow which are useful when learning things, students can access a set of websites consist of educational materials and made up by ISPs, I believe it will be advertised as student only package like how github is giving away discounts to certain services. This is more beneficial to children more than adults. Parents can buy their children a student package knowing they won't be a prey of an online predator. It's true, we can still build our own network which blocks all unnecessary websites, but not many people are able to do it.

The disadvantage of this is it will allow corporate level websites like facebook, netflix, google plus to thrive without much resistant. It's also harmful to small businesses, bloggers because the audience to their websites are now much lower than used to be, for example facebook is often used by small businesses to promote their contents, if ISPs started giving away Facebook only packages, advertising on social networking will be a huge waste of time, because so many people won't be able to access to your third party links, meaning you are forced to post everything in facebook, which is on the other hand beneficial to facebook because less people are leaving their platform. Also when small businesses realized, there is no use of posting links to their websites, they will start dumping their websites in favor of facebook, so I assume then facebook will create a separate service like medium for posting blog articles. So slowly, this will grant more power, and control for big websites. Having your own website with a decent traffic will be the history.

Some people argue that this will increase the competition among ISPs, meaning when big ISPs are going to throttle bandwidth of certain small websites, it will effectively create a market for small ISPs to target them, but this is not that easy. First it's so expensive to build infrastructure, and it will take years or decades to cover certain areas, especially rural areas. It's like how people are still forced to buy Nvidia/AMD graphics card at a higher price tag. They seem like cheaper for some countries, but still graphics cards are overall are expensive due to the lack of competition. There are no competitors in the market, because it's insanely expensive to build infrastructure to build the graphics cards. Even Intel is still unable to compete with higher end graphics cards of both these companies. In a nutshell, Net Neutrality has a lot of benefits, but it also has some down sides too.

If you are a regular user who just wants to see things, then Net Neutrality doesn't do much for you, because you can always purchase facebook only package at a cheap price and read news posted there, and use it. But if you are a small business owner, or a blogger then Net Neutrality is a disaster, because it hinders the growth of these entities.
 
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Cyan

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Jul 25, 2017
126
551
I think the arguments against Net Neutrality are more based on fear/uncertainty than facts. People are scared WHAT IF ISPs are going to charge more for certain services, block or throttle the websites of competitors. I think there are ups and downs of Net Neutrality, but most of the websites don't bother to discuss the downs, but more focus on ups.
Agreed.

When ISPs are going to charge less for specific services, let's say like facebook? because facebook keeps paying them a decent amount of money for a decent bandwidth allocation, it will help certain people to purchase facebook only packages from ISPs, so they don't have to spend more money for other services like google plus, instagram. It's like how you could purchase a cheap iPhone from a network carrier, which is locked to the specific carrier's network. Someone can argue ISPs are not going to reduce the prices, but if it's not reduced it's hard to expect facebook is going to pay for ISPs, after all what is the point of paying when ISPs don't give any benefit to customers in return? So I believe there will be website oriented packages from every ISP at a cheap price like facebook package, whatsapp package, google plus package. This is more beneficial to poor/middle class people because they can use specific services at a cheap price. Also some businesses can come with agreements with ISPs to release packages which grant users to access it only. This is beneficial to certain people like farmers, educators, students. Farmers can access a limited set of websites which educate them with latest techs, and all other information, educators can access to websites like wikipedia, stackoverflow which are useful when learning things, students can access a set of websites consist of educational materials and made up by ISPs, I believe it will be advertised as student only package like how github is giving away discounts to certain services. This is more beneficial to children more than adults. Parents can buy their children a student package knowing they won't be a prey of an online predator. It's true, we can still build our own network which blocks all unnecessary websites, but not many people are able to do it.
Why in the bluest of all possible hells, would you want to subscribe to your internet like you would for a phone. You basically make it sound like the internet should be bought like online books.

The disadvantage of this is it will allow corporate level websites like facebook, netflix, google plus to thrive without much resistant.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. If you buy a specialized service that doesn't include facebook, google or netflix, then those websites wouldn't get any traffic on account of all the bandwidth throttling. Unless that is, you pay for the subscription to those sites in advance.

It's also harmful to small businesses, bloggers because the audience to their websites are now much lower than used to be, for example facebook is often used by small businesses to promote their contents, if ISPs started giving away Facebook only packages, advertising on social networking will be a huge waste of time, because so many people won't be able to access to your third party links, meaning you are forced to post everything in facebook, which is on the other hand beneficial to facebook because less people are leaving their platform. Also when small businesses realized, there is no use of posting links to their websites, they will start dumping their websites in favor of facebook, so I assume then facebook will create a separate service like medium for posting blog articles. So slowly, this will grant more power, and control for big websites. Having your own website with a decent traffic will be the history.
Again, I don't see how you came to that conclusion. In your own post you just said "because facebook keeps paying them a decent amount of money for a decent bandwidth allocation". Clearly, since those startup businesses won't be able to pay the premium for bandwidth like facebook can, they'll be snubbed by both the ISP's and by the search engines, instead of just the search engines. I feel like I'm misunderstanding your point here - I don't wish to put words in your mouth.

Some people argue that this will increase the competition among ISPs, meaning when big ISPs are going to throttle bandwidth of certain small websites, it will effectively create a market for small ISPs to target them, but this is not that easy. First it's so expensive to build infrastructure, and it will take years or decades to cover certain areas, especially rural areas. It's like how people are still forced to buy Nvidia/AMD graphics card at a higher price tag. They seem like cheaper for some countries, but still graphics cards are overall are expensive due to the lack of competition. There are no competitors in the market, because it's insanely expensive to build infrastructure to build the graphics cards. Even Intel is still unable to compete with higher end graphics cards of both these companies. In a nutshell, Net Neutrality has a lot of benefits, but it also has some down sides too.
I agree, net neutrality will do nothing for or against the creation of new ISPs. The hydras that are Timewarner/Comcast eat everything in their path.

If you are a regular user who just wants to see things, then Net Neutrality doesn't do much for you, because you can always purchase facebook only package at a cheap price and read news posted there, and use it. But if you are a small business owner, or a blogger then Net Neutrality is a disaster, because it hinders the growth of these entities.
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion on net neutrality. A world in which you must inform your ISP which 'packages' you want for your internet, is a world I think should not exist. I do not want them to dictate which sites I can go to by enforcing a bandwidth throttle.

Aside from a few interesting points you've made, I believe you are fractally incorrect, across the board.
 
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Silver

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I do not want them to dictate which sites I can go to by enforcing a bandwidth throttle.
I believe as much as you don't want to be dictated by someone else, they don't want to be either. You are their customer, not an employer. Companies should be able to make their own rules as they want in a reasonable manner, and people should be able to make their own choice at the same time. So if people don't like a particular company, it will slowly go down.

I think the most optimal solution is introducing two systems, first one is ISPs should introduce more personalized packages while keeping open Internet intact for people who really want it. With a quick search in google, I could find India has this system.
It appears as it's more beneficial to poor and middle class people as I said in this post.
 

Cyan

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Jul 25, 2017
126
551
I believe as much as you don't want to be dictated by someone else, they don't want to be either. You are their customer, not an employer. Companies should be able to make their own rules as they want in a reasonable manner, and people should be able to make their own choice at the same time. So if people don't like a particular company, it will slowly go down.
Except we already agreed from your previous post that hurting those ISP's isn't actually going to fix anything, since there's no real chance of a new competitor. Also, I have the right to dictate to them; that's what I pay them for. If I see an actual reasonable reason as to why they should be able to throttle sites, I might change my opinion; but I have yet to see that.

I think the most optimal solution is introducing two systems, first one is ISPs should introduce more personalized packages while keeping open Internet intact for people who really want it. With a quick search in google, I could find India has this system.
You don't need to completely remove net neutrality to offer a single site (or site package) at higher speeds for less money than a traditional internet service. This is a non issue at best, in my opinion.

On that note, I'd like to see a service like you mentioned before - specialized web packages for specific site bundles... with net neutrality intact.
 

treos

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Oct 19, 2017
192
92
People are scared WHAT IF ISPs are going to charge more for certain services, block or throttle the websites of competitors.
yep, gonna be real nice when that eventually does start happening if they fully succeed in repealing net neutrality.

oh wait... some ISPs already ARE and have been doing that despite us having net neutrality. you know, the ones that impose BS bandwidth caps then throttle your internet speeds down so low it's unusable when you go over that cap. or they charge you more and more to maintain the speed as you go further and further past the cap they set.

all losing net neutrality will do is remove some hurdles in their path to money. cause, like all big businesses, it's all about the money not the customers. greed, greed, and more greed.

and that's not a "what if" people fear, it's a "when" that people fear. and everyone knows it's only a matter of time with net neutrality gone. you're a fool if you think they won't try and do that.

edit: one ISP we used to use here was Wildblue. yeah...12GB/month wasn't nothing several years ago and it's less than nothing now. you go over that cap and say hello to sub-dial-up speeds and start praying you can get even a single page to load without refreshing multiple times.

oh, and that was also a satellite ISP so if even the tiniest cloud passed over the dish...goodbye internet for anywhere up to a few hours. strong enough wind? goodbye internet.

the one we have right now gives us around 180kb/s download speed BUT no bandwidth caps ever.

i've never even seen any internet connection with so much as a 1MB/s+ speed before. so i don't even know what decent internet speeds, let alone "high speed internet" looks like. and all the time i hear of people off in sweden, canada, other countries going on about how they can download or upload things several GB in size within an hour or so... our internet here in the US is already shitty and lagging behind a number of other countries. we don't need greedy ISPs out to try and monopolize it to make it worse than it already is. and they WILL try to do that.
 
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redle

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Apr 12, 2017
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There are a few select cases where limited "packages" (ie content) can be useful: a minor whom a legitimate authority (parent) wants to severely limit access, elderly who aren't interested in adapting to modern society but are okay with small doses of it, or for people with multiple tech hardware who are tired of paying for the exact same service repeatedly for every device they own and are willing to get it all on one device and limit the others to reduce cost (even though they should be able to just pay the "all" price once and get it everywhere). People who only want to visit facebook can probably buy the smallest data package on their phone they can find (or maybe the phone company can even create a new "small data" package) and they'd be fine. I see no reason the package should exist that says one can only get data packets from 3 specific servers on the planet and no other sources. If there's really a major demand for this sort of thing then I'd still rather see net neutrality stay in place and be the norm and some special case exclusions with limited licensing be created for this or something.

But to claim, oh, I can shop at Amazon, but I'm not even allowed to look at eBay... I can track my packages from Federal Express, but have no access to anything delivered from UPS. Even if the ISP allows me to visit every single site, but throttles every site but a few means some shops need to reduce graphics on their website so that shoppers don't "give up" on them. But we all like to see what we are buying. Reducing pictures means the website comes up quick enough to keep the person from leaving, but with less images of the goods, less purchases will be made at their sites. And not just shopping websites die if their consumers get throttled access. (Not showing up in a blind web search and not being viewable/useable when I know the exact web address I want to view are drastically different things.)

Any claim that Supply/Demand still drives modern economics does not see the full picture. Consumers are still a mostly unorganized blob that has its various needs, a shorter need cycle, and too many disparate viewpoints. Supply has become a much more organized, unified front where many products are concerned. It makes supply easy to manipulate and control in a multitude of ways, and strips all the balance out of the equation. Large corporations often kill off/buy and discontinue competing products as one set of ways. As someone else mentioned, the sheer cost to join the fray for new competitors is another.

Television suppliers have had a nasty stranglehold for years. It's only recently started loosening up a bit in recent years as tv has become internet accessible, and loss of net neutrality will almost completely reverse that. Most ISPs are twined directly with a television service already (meaning the same corporate entity controls both). They currently offer discount rates should a user get both services through them, but people can choose to do so or go with other sources. As soon as an ISP can throttle, they can effectively shut off access to any other tv source. I don't want to need to choose how I connect to the internet based on which tv channels I want to watch (in my opinion these companies would then need to be considered monopolies and be forced to break apart).

TV providers have already started creating unique content tied to their "generic" tv channel providing service (or exclusive use of movies, etc). This is terrible for the consumer, but there's absolutely nothing the consumer can do to prevent it. It's going to continue to happen. Even if someone had the resources to go a start a brand new channel providing service from scratch, they couldn't fix the issue. They wouldn't have access to those shows/movies to put them on offer. I don't want to choose do I prefer Google Maps or MapQuest (as one joins an exclusive contract with Comcast and one joins an exclusive with Charter) and buy my ISP accordingly. I don't want to find that, oh, I chose Google Maps, but MapQuest got paired with Facebook and now I lost access to it. (Will Google actually be limited to one or the other, most likely not. They are big enough and too pervasive already. But you can bet it will start happening to smaller services.)

What happens when the big ISPs decide that they don't like not being able to spy on their subscribers and decide to cut-off/throttle any and all VPNs, or any connection that happens over https? Even if all a person wants to do is look at facebook, but they want to do it slightly more securely through a VPN, this becomes blocked because they only have the facebook package, or is throttled regardless of facebook's payments to the ISP to not throttle them because the data is coming from the VPN, not facebook.