VN Ren'Py New Horizon [v0.2.1] [KawaiiSukebe]

[Kaos_Theory]

And to counter all the butthurt complaints, let me add that I really like how the relation between MC and Ayase plays out over the available content so far. It's great to see nuanced character interactions and consistency in character behavior and motivations.

Labelling comments as 'Butthurt complaints' would be applicable if it was simply because some were complaining about hair colour or body shape, but when it comes to expressing discomfort or disappointment in Ayase's interaction with the MC after his actions in the alley is an unfair assumption to make and a terrible generalisation.

Whether it was intentional or not Ayase and her character arc have now been marred with the label 'Toxic' and that will remain because of the fact that not only did she use her 'best friends' situation to gain power over us by trying to pin us in the corner with a fake and very thinly veiled threat of exposing the mc (the player) as the evil guy instead of the hero he actually was, while pretending to be the hero/vigilante despite needing to be 'rescued' by the mc herself, she still sees this as a victory for her and even after the fact she sees no wrong in her behaviour, going as far to say that they should not interact at school so she can 'protect her image' Claiming her image is important after her obtuse behaviour with the picture is insanely stupid, that's like claiming to be a good driver after crashing your car.

I'll agree with you on one point though, there has been consistency in character behaviour, Ayase has been consistently annoying, domineering and generally toxic, while the mc has consistently proven to be weak or mild-mannered to the point of getting walked all over.

The way Ayase is portrayed reminds me of Hero To Villain, where one of the 'hero' girls stabs a member of her own team in the back (literally) just to get ahead/gain power privilege, if this is not the intended view that the player should have of Ayase then it should ideally be addressed before players give up entirely on her character.

 

[mahlerbestcomposer97]

Labelling comments as 'Butthurt complaints' would be applicable if it was simply because some were complaining about hair colour or body shape, but when it comes to expressing discomfort or disappointment in Ayase's interaction with the MC after his actions in the alley is an unfair assumption to make and a terrible generalisation.

Whether it was intentional or not Ayase and her character arc have now been marred with the label 'Toxic' and that will remain because of the fact that not only did she use her 'best friends' situation to gain power over us by trying to pin us in the corner with a fake and very thinly veiled threat of exposing the mc (the player) as the evil guy instead of the hero he actually was, while pretending to be the hero/vigilante despite needing to be 'rescued' by the mc herself, she still sees this as a victory for her and even after the fact she sees no wrong in her behaviour, going as far to say that they should not interact at school so she can 'protect her image' Claiming her image is important after her obtuse behaviour with the picture is insanely stupid, that's like claiming to be a good driver after crashing your car.

I'll agree with you on one point though, there has been consistency in character behaviour, Ayase has been consistently annoying, domineering and generally toxic, while the mc has consistently proven to be weak or mild-mannered to the point of getting walked all over.

The way Ayase is portrayed reminds me of Hero To Villain, where one of the 'hero' girls stabs a member of her own team in the back (literally) just to get ahead/gain power privilege, if this is not the intended view that the player should have of Ayase then it should ideally be addressed before players give up entirely on her character.

I mean, he is a guy who thinks his personal opinion would qualify as "counter" argument, instead of using facts or logics to say why those comments are butthurt. Thus no need to reason with him cuz he probably wont understand.

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

1 - Labelling comments as 'Butthurt complaints' would be applicable if it was simply because some were complaining about hair colour or body shape, but when it comes to expressing discomfort or disappointment in Ayase's interaction with the MC after his actions in the alley is an unfair assumption to make and a terrible generalisation.

2 - Whether it was intentional or not Ayase and her character arc have now been marred with the label 'Toxic' and that will remain because of the fact that not only did she use her 'best friends' situation to gain power over us by trying to pin us in the corner with a fake and very thinly veiled threat of exposing the mc (the player) as the evil guy instead of the hero he actually was, while pretending to be the hero/vigilante despite needing to be 'rescued' by the mc herself, she still sees this as a victory for her and even after the fact she sees no wrong in her behaviour, going as far to say that they should not interact at school so she can 'protect her image' Claiming her image is important after her obtuse behaviour with the picture is insanely stupid, that's like claiming to be a good driver after crashing your car.

3- I'll agree with you on one point though, there has been consistency in character behaviour, Ayase has been consistently annoying, domineering and generally toxic, while the mc has consistently proven to be weak or mild-mannered to the point of getting walked all over.

4- The way Ayase is portrayed reminds me of Hero To Villain, where one of the 'hero' girls stabs a member of her own team in the back (literally) just to get ahead/gain power privilege, if this is not the intended view that the player should have of Ayase then it should ideally be addressed before players give up entirely on her character.

1- Exactly: a butthurt comment would be "this game sucks because Ayase is brunette instead of redhead! bye!"

2- Exactly, Ayase showed more interest in protecting her self-image than helping, she showed more passion into telling how much better than other she is than actually BEING better than others. She could have used ANY kinder approach to MC, like thanking him and asking nicely "please don't tell that to people, it would put them in danger"(btw is the reason why Batman, Flash, Spiderman and MANY MANY OTHER COMIC-HEROES wear a mask) considering how much of a simp is MC, he would accept (better yet, the dev would make MC to accept Ayase's plead for keeping this whole thing a secret). Ultimately Ayase "feels sorry" for blackmailing but not enough to delete the picture of MC that she is using to blackmail him. A good person would understand that MC is good too and either keep the whole picture-ordeal a secret (like a plan b, or in case MC turned to be a villain) or delete the picture once the misunderstanding has been cleared.

3- Exactly although i would use different words: Ayase is a spoiled brat with weird hobbies(i mean she learned how to use a sword...is this a rich-people thing?Or just some japanese-manga trope? I gave up on most of japanese media because it's too absurd and ridiculous even in fantasy-stories) and MC is a weak-minded simp who accepts to be the butt of every joke, who will have his dignity stomped over even by his relatives. The other characters? we don't know enough about them, but three of them are compared to Ayase by MC..but MC has a delusional and overly idealized opinion of Ayase, literally (as far as i understood the characters) could kill a whole litter of newborn cats and MC would justify it as "She is doing that so that they won't suffer in life, so sweet and selfless of her...i love her!"

4- Exactly, she is a social climber, too scared to lose her privileges while saying that she doesn't need those privileges but still using them and doing her best to protect those benefits

I mean, he is a guy who thinks his personal opinion would qualify as "counter" argument, instead of using facts or logics to say why those comments are butthurt. Thus no need to reason with him cuz he probably wont understand.

Yep, the guy is the Red Grin Grumble of comments...

 

[Uzhirian]

Labelling comments as 'Butthurt complaints' would be applicable if it was simply because some were complaining about hair colour or body shape, but when it comes to expressing discomfort or disappointment in Ayase's interaction with the MC after his actions in the alley is an unfair assumption to make and a terrible generalisation.

This and the couple of posts below kinda support my choice of adjective honestly, which I used because most of the negative comments about Ayase I read boiled down to emotional rants on her being 'mean and not a hero'. My comment was definitely a generalisation, hell i'd go as far as to say it was flippant, because it wasn't meant as a discussion for those who disagree but a note to the dev that some of us don't have issues with Ayase's character or story arc.

As for logic and reasons, I already provided the high level points on why I like how the character was written so far, and as I haven't had an internet debate in ages i'll elaborate on my position.

- Ayase is not a hero. She's a vigilante. She all but tells you that herself. So any claim she didn't act as a 'hero' is pointless. She does sometimes act heroically though, eg. taking out bad guys the cops can't as a side thing at risk to her own person.

- Her primary objective is finding her sister. Second to that is maintaining the ability to continue that search. And after that comes being a 'hero' or whatever. If you look from her perspective, then what she did is the only reasonable course of action. Let's go through it though:

* The alley: Two parties over a naked unconscious girl blaming each other. Only reasonable option is disable all and sort it out after, which is what she did.
* The initial discussion: First thing she does is apologize for attacking him (cause MC has been confirmed not guilty). Cool, yet she's now left with someone who knows her secret identity and spreading it, even if most people wouldn't believe it, might cause issues in her objectives (ie. she talks later in the game about her parents may restrict her freedom if they thought she was getting into trouble, so I took this to mean making her come home and not be out doing whatever and presumably limit monetary assets and other resources). She has zero reason to leave MCs trust to hold this secret to chance or 'asking nicely'. Hence the alley photo threat. This is a reasonable thing for her to do, coming from a vigilante mindset and given what she values most. Once secrecy is secured, she can then offer the carrot (MC's father) and work towards, well, working together.
* The school stuff: You said "going as far to say that they should not interact at school so she can 'protect her image' Claiming her image is important after her obtuse behaviour with the picture is insanely stupid, that's like claiming to be a good driver after crashing your car." I mean, firstly this is factually wrong, she says to keep interactions to a minimum so things don't look suspicious. And secondly. that makes complete sense. She is idolized at school (many eyes on her whenever she's around) but doesn't interact with other students much, especially boys, so for maintaining a secret it would be foolish for her and MC to just start being familiar at school. Also, protecting her image has nothing to do with social climbing or power, but protecting her ability to look for her sister.
* Later stuff: Later on she is clearly warming up to the MC and shows a fairly empathetic personality hiding under the badass vigilante persona, she just won't risk her goals for a stranger and as one can expect it takes time and MC actions over the story to build this trust (ie, not just saving her once in an alley, but consistent reveals of character through conversations, interactions with other NPCs and standing by her during the later fight). And Ayase starts opening up and reciprocating that trust/friendship + of course she never uses the blackmail/threat again for any purpose whatsoever (and apologizes more times for it) because as above, it was only to protect her objectives from someone she had no trust/relation with and not a power gaining thing.

- You also said "Ayase has been consistently annoying, domineering and generally toxic, while the mc has consistently proven to be weak or mild-mannered to the point of getting walked all over."
This is essentially opinion, and one I don't agree with obviously. I'd say its a perspective thing. A lot of time I see people in this forum complaining about 'beta' or 'spineless' or whatever synonym in some games, when what I and presumably others see is simply an MC that is reacting reasonably or with patience/caution because he sees not everything is as it seems at the surface.

I'll give you one concession though to round this out, Ayase definitely should have shown a bit more gratitude for being rescued. If not during the initial meeting, then later on, as I can't recall her ever really doing that. I view that more as a 'dev oversight' than anything else, as it doesn't fit with the character that's otherwise portrayed in the game.

Anyway, I'm guessing we aren't going to agree on this stuff, but all good. Cheers for reading my braindump!

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

This and the couple of posts below kinda support my choice of adjective honestly, which I used because most of the negative comments about Ayase I read boiled down to emotional rants on her being 'mean and not a hero'. My comment was definitely a generalisation, hell i'd go as far as to say it was flippant, because it wasn't meant as a discussion for those who disagree but a note to the dev that some of us don't have issues with Ayase's character or story arc.

As for logic and reasons, I already provided the high level points on why I like how the character was written so far, and as I haven't had an internet debate in ages i'll elaborate on my position.

1- Ayase is not a hero. She's a vigilante. She all but tells you that herself. So any claim she didn't act as a 'hero' is pointless. She does sometimes act heroically though, eg. taking out bad guys the cops can't as a side thing at risk to her own person.

2- Her primary objective is finding her sister. Second to that is maintaining the ability to continue that search. And after that comes being a 'hero' or whatever. If you look from her perspective, then what she did is the only reasonable course of action. Let's go through it though:

3* The alley: Two parties over a naked unconscious girl blaming each other. Only reasonable option is disable all and sort it out after, which is what she did.
4* The initial discussion: First thing she does is apologize for attacking him (cause MC has been confirmed not guilty). Cool, yet she's now left with someone who knows her secret identity and spreading it, even if most people wouldn't believe it, might cause issues in her objectives (ie. she talks later in the game about her parents may restrict her freedom if they thought she was getting into trouble, so I took this to mean making her come home and not be out doing whatever and presumably limit monetary assets and other resources). She has zero reason to leave MCs trust to hold this secret to chance or 'asking nicely'. Hence the alley photo threat. This is a reasonable thing for her to do, coming from a vigilante mindset and given what she values most. Once secrecy is secured, she can then offer the carrot (MC's father) and work towards, well, working together.
5* The school stuff: You said "going as far to say that they should not interact at school so she can 'protect her image' Claiming her image is important after her obtuse behaviour with the picture is insanely stupid, that's like claiming to be a good driver after crashing your car." I mean, firstly this is factually wrong, she says to keep interactions to a minimum so things don't look suspicious. And secondly. that makes complete sense. She is idolized at school (many eyes on her whenever she's around) but doesn't interact with other students much, especially boys, so for maintaining a secret it would be foolish for her and MC to just start being familiar at school. Also, protecting her image has nothing to do with social climbing or power, but protecting her ability to look for her sister.
6* Later stuff: Later on she is clearly warming up to the MC and shows a fairly empathetic personality hiding under the badass vigilante persona, she just won't risk her goals for a stranger and as one can expect it takes time and MC actions over the story to build this trust (ie, not just saving her once in an alley, but consistent reveals of character through conversations, interactions with other NPCs and standing by her during the later fight). And Ayase starts opening up and reciprocating that trust/friendship + of course she never uses the blackmail/threat again for any purpose whatsoever (and apologizes more times for it) because as above, it was only to protect her objectives from someone she had no trust/relation with and not a power gaining thing.

7- You also said "Ayase has been consistently annoying, domineering and generally toxic, while the mc has consistently proven to be weak or mild-mannered to the point of getting walked all over."
This is essentially opinion, and one I don't agree with, obviously. I'd say its a perspective thing. A lot of time I see people in this forum complaining about 'beta' or 'spineless' or whatever synonym in some games, when what I and presumably others see is simply an MC that is reacting reasonably or with patience/caution because he sees not everything is as it seems at the surface.

8- I'll give you one concession though to round this out, Ayase definitely should have shown a bit more gratitude for being rescued. If not during the initial meeting, then later on, as I can't recall her ever really doing that. I view that more as a 'dev oversight' than anything else, as it doesn't fit with the character that's otherwise portrayed in the game.

Anyway, I'm guessing we aren't going to agree on this stuff, but all good. Cheers for reading my braindump!

(i numbered your points so you'll know to which one i'm about to try to answer)

1- Vigilantes ARE heroes, a villain knowing to be a villain would call himself a villain or complain that society doesn't understand that he is doing something evil but for the greater good. We also have anti-heroes, which are shady heroes basically, like Red Hood(in Batman) who actually do horrible things(like killing criminals), if you ask me Ayase is sort of between Hero and Anti-Hero, but more toward the anti-hero...but at this point it's irrelevant she thinks she is a good person, and i don't agree with it, i blame my poor choice of words for saying that she is supposed to be a hero and hero don't blackmail. That's on me, and i can only apologize.

(i skip point 2, because it's the introduction of your explanation about the situation XD)

3- That's fair...it's understandable, that's a misunderstanding, no problem with that, i'm not a vigilante, i wouldn't know how to react, but if i get some superpower, i'll make sure to have a gas-mask and a few grenades with sleeping-gas XD

4- MAYBE i'm too trusting but once i confirmed that a person is good and we're involved in a misunderstanding, i would just...avoided to talk about the picture completely or deleted it right away, because it could backfire so bad, as i explained a few times...Ultimately this "relationship"(yuck, make me nauseous to even say it in this situation) starts with the wrong foot but AYASE herself admits that she needs MC, that she wants HIS HELP...but does nothing to sugarcoat it...even when MC just decides to be cool with the risk of being framed, that's what i'm calling out: MC's reaction(for the most part) is lacking, he gets mad for 3 lines of dialogue and that's it. In the end, Ayase is admired by MC, i think it would have been better if she played the "nice part" considering MC's personality.

5- Honestly, i couldn't care less about this part, so moving on...

6- That would imply that MC can trust her, but he can't...he is still held hostage by a false accusation of rape(with a picture), trust is a two-way road and MC again is being blackmailed into help Ayase, how can he trusts that she won't use the picture to ruin his life? He can't but it's not acknowledged, but this connects with the 7°point because it's related to MC's personality...

7- It's not about MC being spineless, screw that! He fought 4-5 thugs and Ayase to help an unknown girl, that's pretty "spineful" in my agenda, the biggest issue is how half of the game(SO FAR) is flashback in a flashback(the game starts in medias res and triggers a flashback) and the other half is MC inner-monologuing about how great Ayase is in every possible way and then comparing everyone else to Ayase... which sounds more like the dev begging us to like Ayase by giving her tons of qualities, but ultimately he turned her into a Mary Sue, the only thing she isn't good at is being respectful of other people's houses, like demanding MC's bed when she is a guest, complaining that MC was spying on her when she walked out of the bathroom just naked, even though towels were there(she only needed clothes which MC was bringing) IN the bathroom. Again it's not MC being spineless but not standing up for himself, being walked over by pretty much everyone who isn't a male(MC's bestfriend deserves an award and a harem, that guy is my favourite character).

8- THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT(in caps for emphasis), i think MC earned her trust by saving her a second time too, she could delete the picture because MC now is personally involved in the drama, Ayase still wears a mask, but MC doesn't, he is exposing his real identity no problem (actually the problems may come later, but that's another can of worms) Ayase could just delete the picture at the end of v0.1.5, also when you choose that you want nothing from her, she is glad, meaning that in her mind "her debt" with MC is paid by even doing nothing, that express how shallow she is, a good person who feels in debt would have insisted on repaying MC's help and kindness...

Bonus: We all forgot the picture, the tool for blackmailing that is sus but not compromising really like MC is dressed a bit on his knees(like halfway through a squat) in front of a naked girl in the missionary position... HOW IS THAT COMPROMISING?! It is for the girl, because that's public indecency... MC is all dressed, no genitals in sight, not even touching her. Not to mention how a hidden PHOTOcamera took the picture, does the necklace have a special button to take a picture, or it's a hidden VIDEOcamera that records everything and Ayase took a frame of whatever she recorded? <- this is insanely nitpicky but i thought to share it XD

 

[Kaos_Theory]

Ok fair enough maybe my and others' usage of the term hero was a bit of an oversell on the whole topic, but even so, as Demoness pointed out, Vigilantes are heroes in part anyway, at their core, most vigilantes believe they can provide more than what is currently on offer from the law enforcement officers. But even most if not all Vigilantes, Batman is a prime example, classed as a Vigilante, also rich but asks for nothing from those he rescues, but that's a moot point since he's seen globally as a hero, instead of a vigilante.


Regarding the 'finding her sister portion.
1. The alley, I agree with Demoness here in that it was a misunderstanding and should be dealt with reasonably (which for the most part it seems to be)

2.
Apology: Ok so she apologised for attacking the innocent person(MC), but what happens if she does that again in the future, she could end up accidentally prejudging someone and finding they do not hold her on such a high pedestal and will not succumb to her demands, what then? Actions need consequences and Ayase actions feel like they have no consequences.

Identity: She allowed herself to be distracted letting the thugs regain a foothold in the fight which put her at risk, now the smart thing to do for the mc would have been to leave her alone and let her deal with her situation, but he didn't he came back to save her without a second thought because he's a good-natured person

Alley Photo Blackmail: I get that Ayase thinks she has to force MC by underhanded means, but this does not sit well even with a vigilante character profile, they would never resort to blackmail or bribery even IF one of their own was missing, that is simply bad character design in my opinion.

Assuring Secrecy: So after her threat assured her secrecy and she convinced (read forced) MC to help her (to my knowledge there was no mention of working side by side, instead it was implied that he would be her workhorse, carrying out her objectives, thus implying he's working for, not with) She then offers (read taunts) MC with illusions that she knows something about his father, then later revealing that she knows nothing but is using this desire of the MC's to find out what happened as a catalyst to get him on her side.

School Stuff: The school stuff, if she was so concerned with possible interactions between her and him during school time, 1. Stopping and speaking to him initially in front of his friends was a massive mistake on her part, 2. Asking him to join the school council (or whatever it's called in-game) whereby they would need to interact more than they normally would, is also a very stupid idea. (my opinions and likely of little concern or importance to anyone else.)

Later Stuff: This is not something I can fully comment on, due to not completing the game to the end of the current version (I simply could not stomach Ayase and her attitude/behaviour, I get I may be one of the minorities in this regard but I stand by my views on this. She is deserving of being put on the 'ignore' list for the duration of the game) So I'll let others who have completed it all speak on this

Opinion: There is a 'reasonable' reaction and then there is 'unreasonable' and I believe that where the MC could have been a bit more defensive and stood up for himself, but instead just gave in to her whims as if he already knew why she was doing it, is an 'unreasonable reaction'. There is patience and caution and that's fair enough but the situation he was put in was neither 'reasonable' nor worthy of 'patience' or 'caution'

Concession: I do appreciate that I am not alone in thinking that Ayase's lack of gratitude is at best disconcerting

I imagine there's a lot that we may not agree upon, but I do enjoy the talks, as I get to see opinions from all sides of the conversation, and while I can see the point from those sides, it just doesn't make sense from a logical point of view, which is where I am coming from. Still, I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond very coherently to my ramble/rant.

I for one hope that all of this discussion is not seen by the dev as players hating on the game, as I do not. I for one enjoy the game, I just don't feel comfortable dealing with Ayase with her character as it is now, everything else, even the hateful (maybe playfully) sister is fine by me.

Just dev, please give us some options of at least ignoring/avoiding Ayase if we choose to, that's all I'm asking for.

 

[kasoe]

fr this dev is funny af never thought I was walking into a comedy game

 

[An_Able]

This and the couple of posts below kinda support my choice of adjective honestly, which I used because most of the negative comments about Ayase I read boiled down to emotional rants on her being 'mean and not a hero'. My comment was definitely a generalisation, hell i'd go as far as to say it was flippant, because it wasn't meant as a discussion for those who disagree but a note to the dev that some of us don't have issues with Ayase's character or story arc.

As for logic and reasons, I already provided the high level points on why I like how the character was written so far, and as I haven't had an internet debate in ages i'll elaborate on my position.

- Ayase is not a hero. She's a vigilante. She all but tells you that herself. So any claim she didn't act as a 'hero' is pointless. She does sometimes act heroically though, eg. taking out bad guys the cops can't as a side thing at risk to her own person.

- Her primary objective is finding her sister. Second to that is maintaining the ability to continue that search. And after that comes being a 'hero' or whatever. If you look from her perspective, then what she did is the only reasonable course of action. Let's go through it though:

* The alley: Two parties over a naked unconscious girl blaming each other. Only reasonable option is disable all and sort it out after, which is what she did.
* The initial discussion: First thing she does is apologize for attacking him (cause MC has been confirmed not guilty). Cool, yet she's now left with someone who knows her secret identity and spreading it, even if most people wouldn't believe it, might cause issues in her objectives (ie. she talks later in the game about her parents may restrict her freedom if they thought she was getting into trouble, so I took this to mean making her come home and not be out doing whatever and presumably limit monetary assets and other resources). She has zero reason to leave MCs trust to hold this secret to chance or 'asking nicely'. Hence the alley photo threat. This is a reasonable thing for her to do, coming from a vigilante mindset and given what she values most. Once secrecy is secured, she can then offer the carrot (MC's father) and work towards, well, working together.
* The school stuff: You said "going as far to say that they should not interact at school so she can 'protect her image' Claiming her image is important after her obtuse behaviour with the picture is insanely stupid, that's like claiming to be a good driver after crashing your car." I mean, firstly this is factually wrong, she says to keep interactions to a minimum so things don't look suspicious. And secondly. that makes complete sense. She is idolized at school (many eyes on her whenever she's around) but doesn't interact with other students much, especially boys, so for maintaining a secret it would be foolish for her and MC to just start being familiar at school. Also, protecting her image has nothing to do with social climbing or power, but protecting her ability to look for her sister.
* Later stuff: Later on she is clearly warming up to the MC and shows a fairly empathetic personality hiding under the badass vigilante persona, she just won't risk her goals for a stranger and as one can expect it takes time and MC actions over the story to build this trust (ie, not just saving her once in an alley, but consistent reveals of character through conversations, interactions with other NPCs and standing by her during the later fight). And Ayase starts opening up and reciprocating that trust/friendship + of course she never uses the blackmail/threat again for any purpose whatsoever (and apologizes more times for it) because as above, it was only to protect her objectives from someone she had no trust/relation with and not a power gaining thing.

- You also said "Ayase has been consistently annoying, domineering and generally toxic, while the mc has consistently proven to be weak or mild-mannered to the point of getting walked all over."
This is essentially opinion, and one I don't agree with obviously. I'd say its a perspective thing. A lot of time I see people in this forum complaining about 'beta' or 'spineless' or whatever synonym in some games, when what I and presumably others see is simply an MC that is reacting reasonably or with patience/caution because he sees not everything is as it seems at the surface.

I'll give you one concession though to round this out, Ayase definitely should have shown a bit more gratitude for being rescued. If not during the initial meeting, then later on, as I can't recall her ever really doing that. I view that more as a 'dev oversight' than anything else, as it doesn't fit with the character that's otherwise portrayed in the game.

Anyway, I'm guessing we aren't going to agree on this stuff, but all good. Cheers for reading my braindump!

I know I'm basically a week late for this but I'd just like to point out that the literal definition of a vigilante is "someone who takes the law in their own hands." That means hero and vigilante aren't mutually exclusive, nor are villain and vigilante for that matter.

I'd also like to point out that you said Ayase's was "the only reasonable course of action," but if your first choice is to blackmail someone you just met then I fear you may not know what being reasonable means. The MC jumped into a fight with terrible odds to help a girl about to be assaulted and saved Ayase as well, I think he's at least worthy of the benefit of the doubt. Add to that the fact that she has info on his father and I'd say he's got a more practical reason to keep her identity a secret as well. Blackmail seems to me like a last resort, I don't see many vigilantes threatening to ruin an innocent person's life to keep their own identity safe right out of the gate.

At the same time, her alleyway interactions portrayed her as a bit of an idiot with more will than wit so finding out she's on a personal crusade and will trample anyone in her way without really thinking of the consequences wasn't exactly shocking. To me it doesn't make for a very likable character, but agree to disagree.

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

Add to that the fact that she has info on his father and I'd say he's got a more practical reason to keep her identity a secret as well.

you forget a crucial point: She admits like 5-6 lines of dialogue later, that she actually DOESN'T know...but she believes that both disappearances(her sister's and MC's dad's) are related...and belief can be subjective, even more when there are no proofs to confirm those beliefs...i mean i can believe(based on a random feeling/intuition) that you and kasoe(post above yours) are related, it doesn't mean it's true or a reliable guess XD, So Ayase ultimately baited MC after blackmailing him...no idea if the dev intended this...but that's what we see as players

 

[bacienvu88]

At the same time, her alleyway interactions portrayed her as a bit of an idiot with more will than wit so finding out she's on a personal crusade and will trample anyone in her way without really thinking of the consequences wasn't exactly shocking. To me it doesn't make for a very likable character, but agree to disagree.

How is she an idiot? Her one and only priority in the alley was to get her friend to safety. Much better to take out everyone else than risk the safety of the friend. If it turns out he did indeed help it can be dealt with later. And likewise with the blackmail, her first priority is to make sure that she and her gang aren't compromised. That said, she should probably have approached it differently since she intended to recruit him as well. And sure, she has some traits that make her seem ruthless. But that makes her much more human and interesting than if she was Miss Perfect.

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

But that makes her much more human and interesting than if she was Miss Perfect.

and yet, everyone EVEN MC(who knows the "flaws" of Ayase's personality) describe her as a perfect being who can't do wrong not even on purpose...everyone in the game is a simp for her.

 

[bacienvu88]

and yet, everyone EVEN MC(who knows the "flaws" of Ayase's personality) describe her as a perfect being who can't do wrong not even on purpose...everyone in the game is a simp for her.

So what? That is just an image she has cultivated for her high school persona. Just like she has cultivated an entirely different image for her vigilante persona. And from what I remember MC only describes her high school persona as "perfect".

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

And from what I remember MC only describes her high school persona as "perfect".

Oh no, he praises pretty much about everything even the vigilante-stuff

 

[bacienvu88]

Oh no, he praises pretty much about everything even the vigilante-stuff

Ok. But even so, that is an MC problem and not an Ayase problem.

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

Ok. But even so, that is an MC problem and not an Ayase problem.

oh yeah i'm focusing on how Ayase is idolized by everyone just for being an APPARENTLY decent person...so much that even people from other schools admire her...like she isn't famous...i think...

 

[bacienvu88]

oh yeah i'm focusing on how Ayase is idolized by everyone just for being an APPARENTLY decent person...so much that even people from other schools admire her

Isn't that a common trope for Japanese/Asian fiction in school setting? The top beauty that all girls admire and all boys lust after that is good at every aspect of life. But no one can get close to her.

like she isn't famous...i think...

Isn't her dad a well known business man? Speaking of her dad, I wonder if he is involved with the people abducting her sister and MC's dad. But that may be a too obvious plot twist.

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

1- Isn't that a common trope for Japanese/Asian fiction in school setting? The top beauty that all girls admire and all boys lust after that is good at every aspect of life. But no one can get close to her.

2- Isn't her dad a well known business man? Speaking of her dad, I wonder if he is involved with the people abducting her sister and MC's dad. But that may be a too obvious plot twist.

1- Yeah and usually it doesn't make sense, because that would mean that everyone admire half of the world just for being good looking and good at school

2- Wouldn't make sense...afterall Ayase's sister is also the Ayase's Dad's other daughter XD

 

[An_Able]

How is she an idiot? Her one and only priority in the alley was to get her friend to safety. Much better to take out everyone else than risk the safety of the friend. If it turns out he did indeed help it can be dealt with later. And likewise with the blackmail, her first priority is to make sure that she and her gang aren't compromised. That said, she should probably have approached it differently since she intended to recruit him as well. And sure, she has some traits that make her seem ruthless. But that makes her much more human and interesting than if she was Miss Perfect.

She was skilled enough to simultaneously beat the actual rapists effortlessly and still had the tables turned on her because she wasn't paying attention, then had to be saved by the MC. Then as thank you for being a decent guy and trying to save her best friend and herself (even though he thought she was trying to kill him,) she blackmails him with just about the worst shit a guy can be accused of, socially speaking. Can you seriously tell me those aren't the actions of a self-absorbed idiot who doesn't think things through?

 

[Demoness_Kiss]

She was skilled enough to simultaneously beat the actual rapists effortlessly and still had the tables turned on her because she wasn't paying attention, then had to be saved by the MC. Then as thank you for being a decent guy and trying to save her best friend and herself (even though he thought she was trying to kill him,) she blackmails him with just about the worst shit a guy can be accused of, socially speaking. Can you seriously tell me those aren't the actions of a self-absorbed idiot who doesn't think things through?

and you're forgetting(i'm guessing) the part where she admits that SHE needs/wants HIM and stating that MC has no leverage...i mean...shouldn't be about convincing MC to join her? and if MC didn't care about the blackmail, what would have happened? She would have actually spread the picture that shows a girl naked and MC looking? the girl is ayase's bestfriend, without context can be MC and Ayase's friend hooking up in an alley, also if police(bc rape is a serious accusation) questions how she got the picture what is she going to say? That she watched her bestfriend being raped instead of trying to save her or call the police for help? or she'll say "i saved her after taking the picture"? I can go on(and maybe i will) but between the alley scene and the blackmail there are so many things that can go wrong and actually BACKFIRE on Ayase or her friend(depending on how you see it, Waka/Ayase's friend can be accused of public indecency) and if Ayase&Friend are such good people, why would they even go along with the blackmail stuff? Also does Waka know about Ayase's vigilantism? To get along with the plan of accusing MC of rape, Waka must be informed first, after all she is the presumed victim! Waka would be okay to ruin the life of the guy who actually saved her?

That's why i said that the blackmail shouldn't work(and from a realistic point of view, IT DOESN'T WORK), because too many variables to check, so not only it's a stupid scene but also it's not thought through(which is usually why a scene is called stupid)...and it's voided by the fact that Ayase NEEDS MC, meaning that if MC is in jail she can't use him/be helped by him...so MC has ALL the leverage, but he is too dumb to see it and Ayase too full of herself to really understand how stupid her plan is...and that's on the dev who wrote them like this meaning that the writing itself is stupid. Literally those scenes work because the dev wanted them to work, which is the actual definition of "poor writing".

 

[bacienvu88]

Wouldn't make sense...afterall Ayase's sister is also the Ayase's Dad's other daughter XD

Wouldn't be the first time a child or two is sacrificed because of some mad scientist scheme.