New tag for Dishonest Developers?

What Should the New Tag Be?


  • Total voters
    93

dusty stu

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,640
1,469
I think we need a tag that is something like "Patreon Milker" or "Development Hell" or "Scam" for games that release infrequent updates with very few improvements.

Do you agree?
If so, how would you implement this idea?
If not, how would you address the issue of lazy Devs who milk their Patreons?

(Posting this here because I want to spark discussion).
 

Ophanim

Member
May 2, 2018
197
415
I think anything like this would immediately get abused by either users or directly by moderation staff, and it's a terrible idea to tar and feather people based on the opinion of literally some guy in the comments of whether they're doing 'enough' work for the money they're receiving. Nobody goes into game development to get rich - that's actively stupid, and the even the professionals are routinely abused by the actual money makers in the gaming industry, because they have little to no legal protections or workers' rights.

'Lazy' developers aren't an issue that needs to be addessed by f95zone. If microtransactions, preorders and season passes were as rampantly predatory in porn gaming as they are in regular gaming, sure, you might want tags to warn vulnerable people about that. You could maybe get away with a tag for 'paywalled content', which isn't an inditement of a developer and provably exists, but usually the 'issue' of those games is solved right away, in that people review bomb them to hell and back on here.
 

Catapo

Member
Jun 14, 2018
237
437
Patreon Milker - is a paradox because the only people who would have a right to complain are people who donate and they are not forced to give their money, they can stop whenever they want.

Development Hell - sometimes games have a legit reasons to be stuck in development and you already have the OnHold and Abandoned tags.

Scam - who exactly will decide which game gets this tag ?

Do you agree ?
Nope.

How would you address the issue...
Don't.
Nobody is forcing people to give money so stop complaining.
If you think some devs don't deserve it that's your problem. The people who actually donate obviously disagree.
 

Eagle1900

Engaged Member
Oct 7, 2022
3,582
19,065
How long does it take, in a day, to create a game?
I'm not a developer, I'm a simple user, but I think it takes a lot of time. it is true that it is a free choice, but donating one's own money is also a free choice, so I wouldn't criticize those who do it to seek gain, I would simply look elsewhere if I don't like how things go on. if you put money in and don't see developments, he could always tell you that your money is to cover the work that has already been done, so with great serenity, you either accept having to wait to receive some updates, or you have the greatest of powers in your favor, that of abandoning him and perhaps not downloading any more of his future work. As you can see, we users have enormous power, but I remind you that we are still talking about a game, if you want you can finance it, otherwise not. ;)
 

Deleted member 3917737

Active Member
Jul 12, 2021
790
2,031
people who would have a right to complain are people who donate and they are not forced to give their money, they can stop whenever they want.

Nobody is forcing people to give money so stop complaining.
If you think some devs don't deserve it that's your problem. The people who actually donate obviously disagree.

You don't understand and can't see the bigger picture.

"It's not my money, so why should I care?" um, because you just, care? do you not care about other people? so, you are fine with them getting taken advantage of, etc? those people are clearly too blinded by their like/love/want for the game, that they can't stop or see the truth (like an addict)

If you were getting milked/scammed/whatever, wouldn't you want someone to let you know? try to help you see? or should they be like "what? eh, that's his problem/money, not mines"

I wish they had a "Scammer/Milker" tag for those types of Devs. How would we know this, that or whatever else? we would have proof, have the research and evidence to back it up. Then, if people still want to give them money and stuff, that's on them. We tried to help, and they didn't want it. Nothing more can be done.
 

Hagatagar

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2019
1,024
3,007
"It's not my money, so why should I care?" um, because you just, care? do you not care about other people? so, you are fine with them getting taken advantage of, etc? those people are clearly too blinded by their like/love/want for the game, that they can't stop or see the truth (like an addict)

If you were getting milked/scammed/whatever, wouldn't you want someone to let you know? try to help you see?
And a patronizing tag would help because...? :unsure:

Telling a real addict or a fact blind person about the/their problem won't accomplish much. As you said, they are blind to it, that's why they will dismiss such a simple tag.
One must make them aware of the problem, but that will result in endless discussions in the game thread.
 

Jaike

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
1,441
5,055
What we really need are two new badges.

One's for "dishonest developers", but the thing is getting this is voted on by a few selected F95Zone users and the ones who get the most hate get the badge. So the actual title of the badge's community-approved conpersxn.

The other's for the users who can vote on the community-approved conpersxn. This has a careful selection process, the user has to apply for it with a ticket and include references to twenty posts where they complain about dishonest, milking devs. If it's rejected, the user can apply a second time after four weeks and gets the badge immediately. It's called the chronic complainer. An alternative application process is to date with a "milker" dev in person persxn and have your dick or tits sucked dry with a milking machine.

/s
 

morphnet

Active Member
Aug 3, 2017
670
1,552
You don't understand and can't see the bigger picture.

"It's not my money, so why should I care?" um, because you just, care? do you not care about other people? so, you are fine with them getting taken advantage of, etc? those people are clearly too blinded by their like/love/want for the game, that they can't stop or see the truth (like an addict)
Firstly, while you may be talking about yourself here most people who complain about milking are NOT looking out for their fellow man but are unhappy about the pace of a game they like and feel / hope a way to get their content faster is by pressure from complaints like milking.

As for people being to "blinded by their like/love/want for the game" to see the truth, who's truth are we talking about here? To some people one month is enough time for an update and for other three months are, there are others willing to waiting 6 months or more. What makes the person willing to wait one month more right than the person willing to waiting six? What right does that person have to tell the other they can't wait six?

"(like an addict)" Strange how the only ones "acting" like addicts are some of the ones complaining. Addicts don't sit at home patiently waiting....

If you were getting milked/scammed/whatever, wouldn't you want someone to let you know? try to help you see? or should they be like "what? eh, that's his problem/money, not mines"
That's rather brazen of you. Are you implying that these people are unable to make choices for themselves, that they are clueless and their point of view does not matter? From the wording you have used it sounds like your standard is the only one to follow and others not following it need to somehow be saved from themselves....

I wish they had a "Scammer/Milker" tag for those types of Devs. How would we know this, that or whatever else? we would have proof, have the research and evidence to back it up. Then, if people still want to give them money and stuff, that's on them. We tried to help, and they didn't want it. Nothing more can be done.
You say "research and evidence" but for what exactly and collected by who exactly? Who gets to set the bar as to what is acceptable and not?

Is the tag supposed to be added just because some members say so? By now it must be clear that most people have their own views and in most cases for every 10 you find that think a dev is milking you can find just as many to say "be patient". Just because some people try to devalue their choice by calling them "fanboys" or claiming they are somehow "to blind" to see the milking does not make their right to make that choice any less real and at that point how can the tag be added when there is clearly support saying the tag does not apply.

At the end of the day you can not assume everyone supporting a dev you feel is milking is some kind of sheep, unable to know what to do with their own money and in need of saving from themselves.

If you find a game where you feel it's being updated too slowly and the dev is milking, just move on and find something else to play.
 

fidless

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Oct 22, 2018
2,589
4,581
So according to some of these people, someone like Toady One who's releasing big patches once or two times a year and working on game for about 20 years would be marked as Scammer/Milker and his project Dwarf fortress being in "Development Hell"... Alright :cool:

One's for "dishonest developers", but the thing is getting this is voted on by a few selected F95Zone users and the ones who get the most hate get the badge.
So it is a popularity contest. Whoever is most popular, comes with the most haters, so despite his actual work on the game, he'll have most bad badges, especially if he's making some non-standard game that makes snowflakes hearts melt and if majority of F95 arbiters of truth council are selected with same mindset (snowflakes) who'll vote just out of spite for type of game.

Sounds like a great plan to total disaster.
 

Winterfire

Forum Fanatic
Respected User
Game Developer
Sep 27, 2018
5,048
7,395
So it is a popularity contest. Whoever is most popular, comes with the most haters, so despite his actual work on the game, he'll have most bad badges, especially if he's making some non-standard game that makes snowflakes hearts melt and if majority of F95 arbiters of truth council are selected with same mindset (snowflakes) who'll vote just out of spite for type of game.

Sounds like a great plan to total disaster.
i think you missed the /s at the end of his message
 

fidless

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Oct 22, 2018
2,589
4,581
i think you missed the /s at the end of his message
Eh doesn't matter. I saw actual propositions like this in the past.
The simple truth is, nobody care and nobody going to track every single dev and their workflow.

The propositions like OP would be deeply flawed and probably corrupted with biases.
 
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Jaike

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
1,441
5,055
Eh doesn't matter. I saw actual propositions like this in the past.
:unsure:

It does matter to me, sweetie. My actual social views aren't to the right of Mussolini. :p

I actually care very little about Patreon devs' work schedule or work ethic and find complaints about milking silly in most cases. I think the most important thing for a dev is to try to communicate the extent of future controversial content in advance so sensible backers aren't disappointed and that's it. I don't really like Patreon but that's not relevant to this topic.

i think you missed the /s at the end of his message
This, except that it's "her".

Anyway next time I include sale into slavery and forced BDSM in the proposal to make the sarcasm more obvious.
 

Greiya Archives

first rate degenerate
Game Developer
Aug 23, 2022
476
553
Eh doesn't matter. I saw actual propositions like this in the past.
The simple truth is, nobody care and nobody going to track every single dev and their workflow.

The propositions like OP would be deeply flawed and probably corrupted with biases.
/s means (comment was) sarcastic
 
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Müptezel Emo

Member
Dec 15, 2022
151
352
Bruh. Literally bruh.

Devs are making something valuable, and you know nobody is make adult game with AAA budget. ( Even AAA budget games can be fucked up, just look at Amazon's game studio )

Game devs and their games are only thing make this site valuable.

And do not forget. Most games are just trash/asset-flip in every kind of genre, just not in adult games.
 

ClockworkGnome

Active Member
Sep 18, 2021
737
1,952
I kind of agree with the consensus so far - most of those tags would be subjective as hell, open to massive abuse, and are really only useful in ways that are already covered by existing tags.

Beyond that, information like "this dev seems to be milking" or "this dev only updates once every three years when the moon is in the seventh house and Mars is in conjunction with Sagittarius" is the kind of thing you learn by actually reading topic discussion. If you can't be bothered to skip to the end of a thread and see what people are saying, an overly simplistic tag isn't going to help all that much.