VN Ren'Py Nothing is Forever [Development Thread]

[MrSilverLust]

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Since the start of the lockdowns I have had more time in my hands and decided to start learning renpy, Daz and python. After a long, fun journey, it’s with great pleasure that I present you the game I’ve been cooking: “Nothing is Forever”.

PROGRESS:
Chapter 1 is almost done. At the moment there are:
Renders: ~450 (~80% done)
Animations: ~15 (~65% done)
UI: (~70% done)
Dialogs: (~80% done)
Mechanics (~85% done)
Marketing (0% - I guess this post is the first step)​

In “Nothing is Forever”, I'm trying to do something more grounded and realistic than most porn games, and subvert a bit the traditional tropes and expectations. There will be plenty of lewd scenes though, don't worry, but I hope you may also find the surrounding story equally entertaining.

SUMMARY:​

You'll play as a man (around 27yo) trying to find his place in the world. Just a few years back he was a bright psychology student that quickly found a job as a sexologist and had a great future ahead of him... until some “inappropriate behavior” threw everything out of the window. Now, plagued with regrets and self-doubt, he is starting anew in a different psychology field.

At the start of the game, the Main Character is not doing particularly well. Due to his recent professional failures and having to rely on his friends to get back on his feet, his pride is hurt and his mental health has seen better days. He is questioning what kind of man he is, and what he wants to do with his life.

GAMEPLAY:​

In this first post, I want to talk a bit about the game mechanics. Yes, this will be another visual novel which consists of 90% clicking forward, and making choices, with the occasional free-roaming events to break the pace. But I also wanted to introduce a little bit of novelty to this formula.

To have a more elaborated choice system in the game, virtually every choice you make will develop MC's personality in some direction.
This happens in a 4 axis system: some choices can be honorable or cunning, other choices will be sensitive or manly.

​

The choice system was designed with 2 big principles in mind:
1. Choices should matter and allow the player to tailor the gaming experience to his preferences.
2. Choices should be clear, the player shouldn't have to guess what each choice does or follow a walkthrough to get to the desired scene.

With that in mind, in the choice menu it’s clearly visible what personality trait each choice will increase. In the profile menu, the player can also see at any point, how MC's personality is developing.

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MC’s personality will influence how the several Love Interest’s react to him and if they are attracted to him.
Before being intimate with any Love Interest, the MC will have to figure out her kinks. This will be done via collecting hints throughout the story. When it’s time for some lewd action, the MC will have to use the hints he collected plus his psychology knowledge to figure out what’s the kink the girl is into at that particular time.

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However, that’s not enough. The MC also needs to have the skill required to give her a good time. The skills that the MC can have are dependent on the personality points he acquired. The player can then use the said points to "buy" skills. If you figure out the Love Interest kinks and have the right skills, then and you are good to go. If you aren’t into some of these kinks, simply don’t buy the respective skills and you will never see those scenes.

​

As the game develops, I hope this system will allow for some interesting choices for the player. For example, you can either buy all the cheaper, more vanilla skills and play around with all girls, but never go into the more hardcore stuff; or you can invest in completing the skill trees you like the most and get all the hardcore kinks and scenes but only with your favorite few girls.

This post is already quite big, I’ll leave other topics for another time.
I’m happy to answer any question, receive opinions and criticism. Cheers.

EXAMPLE RENDERS:
​

 

[Deleted member 24136]

Too dark Frames and shadows.

 

[Weasel_Face]

Not a fan of the black outline.

 

[MrSilverLust]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm aware that the style might put off some players.

This site is full of beautiful photorealistic renders: they are in games, art threads, fan art, etc. It's definitely the preferred style. But I simply couldn't achieve that quality with my current hardware. I just have my laptop to render and I need to produce renders fast or it wouldn't be possible to make a game.

This toonish, soft look was the compromise. It speeds up rendering time a lot, at the cost of putting some people off. I actually got to like it, and it gives the game it's own distinct look.

That being said, there's definitely room for improvements in lightning, shadows, and I can play around a bit with the black outline.

Thanks again for the feedback. It's very important at this stage and if anyone else wants to add something to that or other topic, they are more than welcome.

 

[osanaiko]

I think the dark edges are cool. But they seem a bit inconsistent from one picture to the next... are you hard-drawing them on top of the renders? or is it some sort of daz shader?

Leaving the unique visual style out of it, it sounds like you have put a lot of time and effort into developing the ideas, game mechanics and storyline. I hope you can pull it together and drop out a alpha/beta version for us to playtest.

Keep up the good work!

 

[MrSilverLust]

It's a shader in Daz. There are two reasons for the inconsistencies.

The first is that the aspect of the shader changes slightly depending on the pose of the character, lights, camera angle, etc. I've learnt how to deal with this relatively easily, but there's always some small differences.

The second is my own fault. I started making renders without thinking too much about it and then also realized that I didn't like very strong outlines and started changing it to a more subtle effect. At the very least I will try to make it more consistent from now on, and I'll probably also redo some older renders to keep everything more consistent.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. The plan is to realease the 1st chapter sometime in June.

 

[spitfire335]

I have to say, that black chick is pretty cute. Looking forward to the game!

 

[Canade]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm aware that the style might put off some players.

This site is full of beautiful photorealistic renders: they are in games, art threads, fan art, etc. It's definitely the preferred style. But I simply couldn't achieve that quality with my current hardware. I just have my laptop to render and I need to produce renders fast or it wouldn't be possible to make a game.

This toonish, soft look was the compromise. It speeds up rendering time a lot, at the cost of putting some people off. I actually got to like it, and it gives the game it's own distinct look.

That being said, there's definitely room for improvements in lightning, shadows, and I can play around a bit with the black outline.

Thanks again for the feedback. It's very important at this stage and if anyone else wants to add something to that or other topic, they are more than welcome.

It can work I think and perhaps softening the black outline could fix it. I was thinking of a grayish outline somewhere in between black and grey, your choice of course.

 

[MrSilverLust]

I’m getting very close to be happy enough with the game to release the first chapter to the public. It’s been quite fun to try to learn as much as I can to reduce the gap between what I envision on my mind and what I can actually make. Coding, 3d posing, rendering, animating, ui design, game design, music, and, more recently, video editing…

Here is the trailer I made to showcase the themes, characters and game mechanics present in Nothing is Forever:

​

You can tell this was the first trailer made by an amateur. Before the final release, I definitely want to try to make something shorter and prettier. But, for now, this one is good enough. I hope I did arouse your curiosity at least a little bit.


As of today:

PROGRESS:
Scenes and dialogues: ~95% done (~590 renders, 22 animations)
UI and game mechanics: ~90% done
Music and sound effects: ~25% done​

There is more information about game mechanics in the first post. I deliberately have been avoiding talking about characters to not spoil anything, but if there are any questions I’m happy to answer. Until the end of June I hope I can release the first chapter and anyone can then try the game at first hand.

As usual critiques, suggestions, questions, words of encouragement, etc, are all very welcome. Cheers.

 

[osanaiko]

That trailer is pretty cool, especially if you've never done anything like that before. Nice work!

One advice I would give is to speed up the transitions and reduce the number of "scenes". Ideally you'd target about 60 second max for the whole trailer. For example, in the sequence of text-image-text-image which explains the back story and the game play, it was good for the first 3 or so but got boring after that. Slow fade-in text is only good for a couple of impressions, but anyone with a normal reading speed doesn't like the slow reveal.

 

[MrSilverLust]

Thanks for the tips, that’s solid advice. For the game release I’ll try to do as you suggest, and limit the trailer at around 60s. I’ll see if can learn how to style and animate better any text and rather show it over the images themselves, instead of with that boring black background.

Also, I got a bit carried away and showed too much stuff irrelevant for a trailer. I guess I really wanted to show some of the features I’ve been working on

Another issue is how and where to efficiently showcase these trailers. I hope it goes better once there’s actually a game to download, because right now I don’t have a very good idea how to advertise this thing.

 

[osanaiko]

Thanks for the tips, that’s solid advice. For the game release I’ll try to do as you suggest, and limit the trailer at around 60s. I’ll see if can learn how to style and animate better any text and rather show it over the images themselves, instead of with that boring black background.

Also, I got a bit carried away and showed too much stuff irrelevant for a trailer. I guess I really wanted to show some of the features I’ve been working on

Another issue is how and where to efficiently showcase these trailers. I hope it goes better once there’s actually a game to download, because right now I don’t have a very good idea how to advertise this thing.

Advertising is a somewhat difficult topic, and it really depends on what you are trying to do with your game.

Is it a personal fun project, where you are making some adult game with specific kinks you think are missing from other games? or are you hoping to make some income? (or it can be both).

The truth is, there's very few creators who make any significant income, and the few common threads for the most successful games seem to be:
* targetting some kink that is under-served in the "mainstream" porn market,
* and/or a very high production value game (i.e. a team making unique, high quality art),
* (important) a long track history of updates or previous games, to build up a group of followers

If your game is hot and fun, advertising kind of takes care of itself within communities like this, ULMF, TFgames and others. Obviously a lot of us here are pirates, but a surprisingly high percentage are supporting one to several creators via p*treon and substar. I personally have supported nearly 10 different creators over the past few years, although not all at the same time.

A trailer is cool, but not everyone will watch it even here in the forum.

I think that the most more important promotion items on this forum are, in order:

- a game name that is intriguing and ideally links to your game's kink
- a good banner image (correct proportions to show properly in the latest games list, game title, with clear images of the hot chicks, and some part that shows the kink if possible)
- A well written intro text
- quality / hot sample images of the game characters,
- and ideally some more info like tags (current and planned) and anything else you can throw in.

 

[MrSilverLust]

So far this project was definitely just a fun/hobby thing for me and I don't depend on its success at all. That being said, it's hard to justify investing in better hardware/assets/commission work/etc just for the sake of a hobby. I'd like to gather some support just to improve the game and make it be as good as it can be.

I do think (or at least hope!) this is a game worth being done. Not necessarily because of having kinks not present anywhere else, but because of the characters. I hope it will feel familiar to the player - I'm not trying to reinventing the wheel - but I do hope that the player gets to the end of chapter 1 feeling they haven't played this game before. That it wasn't just the same old stories and tropes recycled once again. But I guess every developer thinks the same .

Thank you once again for your suggestions, I’ll look into those other forums. Regarding the stuff specific for this one, maybe I haven't thought some things through like a good title and the tags system. I'm too attached to the title now, but I'm looking into the tags.

Current tags on chapter 1: ​

3DCG, Animated, Dating Sim, Romance, Point & Click, Male Protagonist, Ahegao(kinda), Creampie, Male Domination, Oral Sex, Vaginal sex


Lot's of things are planned, so this will become an extensive list and not exactly set on stone. All of this will be optional.

Planned tags: ​

Anal Sex, Bdsm, Blackmail, Cheating, Corruption, Drugs, Exhibitionism, Female domination, Footjob, Group sex, Handjob, Humiliation, Interracial, Lesbian, Masturbation, Milf, Multiple Penetration, Sex Toys, Spanking, Teasing, Titfuck, Urination, Virgin, Voyeurism

There will also be optional Netorase, which I'm not sure if it warrants the NTR tag or not and I've been here long enough to know this will be its own can of worms.


I didn’t look at any trends, or what kinks are popular or whatever it's just what I think I can write about well and fits the story.

I understand that talking about advertising makes me look greedy. But it's just that a couple weeks away from releasing the first chapter the nerves are kicking in and I'm afraid it won't even reach the players that would like to play the game. I also don’t think I fit any of the common threads you mentioned for the most successful games… which just increases my fear of having my game unseen in the middle of the sea containing all porn games.

But I guess this is a bit irrational. It's like you say, if it's good and fun, the advertising takes care of itself. No better publicity than the word of mouth.

 

[osanaiko]

So far this project was definitely just a fun/hobby thing for me and I don't depend on its success at all. That being said, it's hard to justify investing in better hardware/assets/commission work/etc just for the sake of a hobby. I'd like to gather some support just to improve the game and make it be as good as it can be.

I do think (or at least hope!) this is a game worth being done. Not necessarily because of having kinks not present anywhere else, but because of the characters. I hope it will feel familiar to the player - I'm not trying to reinventing the wheel - but I do hope that the player gets to the end of chapter 1 feeling they haven't played this game before. That it wasn't just the same old stories and tropes recycled once again. But I guess every developer thinks the same .

Thank you once again for your suggestions, I’ll look into those other forums. Regarding the stuff specific for this one, maybe I haven't thought some things through like a good title and the tags system. I'm too attached to the title now, but I'm looking into the tags.

Current tags on chapter 1: ​

3DCG, Animated, Dating Sim, Romance, Point & Click, Male Protagonist, Ahegao(kinda), Creampie, Male Domination, Oral Sex, Vaginal sex


Lot's of things are planned, so this will become an extensive list and not exactly set on stone. All of this will be optional.

Planned tags: ​

Anal Sex, Bdsm, Blackmail, Cheating, Corruption, Drugs, Exhibitionism, Female domination, Footjob, Group sex, Handjob, Humiliation, Interracial, Lesbian, Masturbation, Milf, Multiple Penetration, Sex Toys, Spanking, Teasing, Titfuck, Urination, Virgin, Voyeurism

There will also be optional Netorase, which I'm not sure if it warrants the NTR tag or not and I've been here long enough to know this will be its own can of worms.


I didn’t look at any trends, or what kinks are popular or whatever it's just what I think I can write about well and fits the story.

I understand that talking about advertising makes me look greedy. But it's just that a couple weeks away from releasing the first chapter the nerves are kicking in and I'm afraid it won't even reach the players that would like to play the game. I also don’t think I fit any of the common threads you mentioned for the most successful games… which just increases my fear of having my game unseen in the middle of the sea containing all porn games.

But I guess this is a bit irrational. It's like you say, if it's good and fun, the advertising takes care of itself. No better publicity than the word of mouth.

That all sounds like you've got a good handle on what you are trying to do. It's my opinion that you need to enjoy what you are doing for it's own sake initially, but if you stick with your goal and keep working on adding content and learning and improving your quality, you're likely to find some loyal players.

Regarding the name, I think you've got a good one already.

Regarding advertising, one avenue is Lewd Pixels, I know they do advertising (or maybe "advert-orials").

NTR is a very controversial tag as you said. Just make it really clear that it's optional and clearly marked and/or disable-able.

All in all, I don't think anyone gets a benefit from getting stressed about their work; it's much better to spend that energy on improving your product. The only way forward and to know if others will like your stuff is to make a release, and get real feedback, and then to keep pushing your own path while ignoring the haters.

Good luck with your release.

BTW, If you want someone to playtest/proofread/give feedback on your game before public then I'd happy to take a look for you. (I already do this for several game developers on here.)

 

[MrSilverLust]

To be honest I’ve gone from “This will be an amazing game!” to “What am I doing, all of this is shit!” and vice-versa more times than I’d like to admit . But I have never really stressed much about it. It’s more like having difficulty dealing with the difference between the concept and vision I have in my mind and what I can actually create.

Some of those differences come from technical limitations (using a few old years old midrange laptop to render animations is suboptimal…). Others come from me just not knowing how to do any better at the moment.

On the other hand, we all know what a good game, or story, or really any piece of entertainment is. And sometimes it can be frustrating when what I am trying to create is obviously bellow that high bar. Other times though, it feels like I am so close of that level and it feels really good. Most of the time I actually don’t know at all how good what I’m making really is. And there’s no objective answer to that question anyway.

But I’m really curious to see the feedback upon release. And to see what I can do with that feedback and with more time and experience. This project is my baby at the moment, I really want to make it good.

BTW, If you want someone to playtest/proofread/give feedback on your game before public then I'd happy to take a look for you. (I already do this for several game developers on here.)

Thank you very much, I will very happily accept your offer

 

[MrSilverLust]

Hi everyone. Things are progressing relatively well for the release of the first chapter. Thankfully, osanaiko kindly offered to help proofreading the whole script and is also giving me some great feedback. I’m just realizing how important feedback is at this stage.

Does anyone else also want to beta test the 1st chapter?​

The script will still change a bit when the proofreading is done, a few scenes might be rewritten, and I might still polish a thing or two. But, besides that, the beta is fully playable, without any bug I can find and very similar to the future official release.

Tags on the 1st chapter:​

3DCG, Animated, Dating Sim, Romance, Point & Click, Male Protagonist, Ahegao(kinda), Creampie, Male Domination, Female domination, Oral Sex, Vaginal sex

Summary:​

A young bright psychology student finds his dream job as a sexologist and has a great future ahead of him... until some inappropriate behavior threw everything out of the window. Now, plagued with regrets and self-doubt, he tries to start anew. He will have to fight his inner demons and decide what kind of man he wants to be. All while using his psychology knowledge to understand the kinks and needs of the potential love interests he will find along the away.



Let me know if you are interested in helping a starting dev. Feedback on characters, pace of the story, sex scenes, renders, game presentation, game mechanics, bugs, etc would be greatly appreciated. All of this is new to me and I’m sure I am doing some rookie mistakes that you can help with.

I’m not sure how visible this thread is and if anyone will even be interested. I’ll just give a link to the beta version to anyone that wants to help until I think that’s enough players.

If you are interested, I’ll just ask 3 favors:​

• Please write me a somewhat detailed review, with focus on the stuff you didn’t like and can be improved. If it turns out that this game it’s not your cup of tea and you don’t want to finish it, that’s totally fine, just say so. Don’t feel forced to do anything.
• Please let me know your 3 favorite adult games for me to have a feeling what kind of game you enjoy.
• Please don’t be annoyed if I don’t follow through with your suggestions. It’s impossible to please everyone, they might go against what I’m going for or I might just not be good enough to do them. But I promise to take everything into consideration.

Gamewise, expect a slow burn VN, with some choices to shape MC’s personality. Depending on your choices, you will be able to develop some “skills” that will dictate what kind of sex scenes you will see (for example, if you are more dominant you will be able to dominate girls during the sex scenes, and vice-versa.) Throughout the game you will be given some hints that you'll have to use to find the girls kinks and have sex with them.

See some more renders below. Thank you to anyone interested. You can contact me via PM if you like. Cheers.

 

[Canade]

After trying out the game, the black outlines depend for me. The thinner black outlines are fine, but the thicker black outlines are a bit much imo.

 

[MrSilverLust]

After trying out the game, the black outlines depend for me. The thinner black outlines are fine, but the thicker black outlines are a bit much imo.

That's also my opinion
I’ll be using only thinner outlies and continue fixing the older renders that still have outlines too thick. The plan is that, upon the release of chapter 2, the art style will be consistently aesthetic pleasing, with thin outlies, from the beginning till the end.

Here are a few chapter 2 teaser renders showing what I’m going for:



Also, the game was released in this thread for anyone interested. I’m very happy with the positive reception, reviews and feedback obtained.

 

[Canade]

That's also my opinion
I’ll be using only thinner outlies and continue fixing the older renders that still have outlines too thick. The plan is that, upon the release of chapter 2, the art style will be consistently aesthetic pleasing, with thin outlies, from the beginning till the end.

Here are a few chapter 2 teaser renders showing what I’m going for:
View attachment 1304195 View attachment 1304196


Also, the game was released in this thread for anyone interested. I’m very happy with the positive reception, reviews and feedback obtained.

Looks great, keep it up

 

[lakano]

Will there be a lot of femdom content and can cuckoldry be avoided also is there foot related femdom content foot worship footjob etc ?