NTR - What do you think?

NTR - what is it for you?

  • Imaginaging to be ntr'ed

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • Imaginaging to ntr the poor guy

    Votes: 13 46.4%
  • to just eat outside of your usual plate of fetish

    Votes: 8 28.6%
  • everything else...answer in a posting

    Votes: 3 10.7%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

Agul

Member
Jun 19, 2017
314
1,472
I was pretty battered by the opposed sex during my childhood and early teen years and of course that caused some very deep injuries that probably contributed a lot more than I give it credit for to the formation of the person I am today. And, as I've said in other comments, for me it was as if something clicked when I first saw NTR in a fantasy context - Kedamono etc etc hentai, then I Can and a lot more in the middle - and it excited me enormously. It made me feel for the protag and certainly with some projection shielding myself from hurt seeing something beautiful being destroyed.
The first VNs I ever played; I think at the age of 12 or 13, was Bible Black and Discipline: Record of a Crusade.
It always got a bigger reaction out of me to see the bad endings and as I grew up, this only intensified. Bible Black was more of an introduction but Discipline includes an ending that sees the guys you thought were your friends dump loads in your romantic interest with a lot less guilt than you'd think, in front of you. This might be the more tame NTR ending but with my experiences in the formative years that followed, I would suspect this only became more provocative to me. As you say, something beautiful is not only destroyed but shackled by biological law. It's fucking intense to see her not only taken against her will but slowly reacting to her treatment positively in a way she can't deny. It's scenes like this that remind me that NTR is really about control of women and lack thereof, in sex and in life. My teenage love doesn't amount to anything, but my realisations from that experience tell me a lot about how power works in a relationship.
 

262177

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,554
1,253
I've been embroiled in arguments myself where I've more or less just devolved to trolling because people are so threatened they aren't interested in understanding why people enjoy the fetish and won't just let it be.
I know that feel from being on the spectator side. Not even enjoyable with Schadenfreude here.
To me, the key is the emotions involved rather than whether an official relationship exists, which is why "osananajimi" and "motherly" figures are so popular. Even a potential love interest being taken can be a form of NTR, though this is why people often get so mad that characters so loosely associated with the MC are "taken".
Kind of reminds me of the whole "shipping" business, but here we have an interesting and scientific take on it instead of a batshit crazy fight about headcanon.
I really wouldn't want to try moderate the feverishly offended community of porn pirates. You might have noticed people are now joking in NTR game threads about "iS nTr AvOiDaBlE?" but it really isn't overcoming the hostility some people feel.
Indeed, I did. I even wonder if those threads had purges considering going even slightly off-topic is enough to trigger massive report button clicks, but in this case, I honestly wouldn't blame the poor staffers. They, or at least most of them volunteers, didn't deserve this hell.
Sorry to hear about your bad news.
Thanks for your kind words.
 

ScroxDieded

Member
Nov 6, 2017
249
374
The first VNs I ever played; I think at the age of 12 or 13, was Bible Black and Discipline: Record of a Crusade.
It always got a bigger reaction out of me to see the bad endings and as I grew up, this only intensified. Bible Black was more of an introduction but Discipline includes an ending that sees the guys you thought were your friends dump loads in your romantic interest with a lot less guilt than you'd think, in front of you. This might be the more tame NTR ending but with my experiences in the formative years that followed, I would suspect this only became more provocative to me. As you say, something beautiful is not only destroyed but shackled by biological law. It's fucking intense to see her not only taken against her will but slowly reacting to her treatment positively in a way she can't deny. It's scenes like this that remind me that NTR is really about control of women and lack thereof, in sex and in life. My teenage love doesn't amount to anything, but my realisations from that experience tell me a lot about how power works in a relationship.
Oh yeah, I remember those as well. But even before that... Now that you mentioned, I played Divi-dead and Desire. I think it was in Divi-dead that there was a NTRish scene that I had deleted from my mind until now. The protag was speaking with a girl and there was a jackass besides her fingering her from behind. That was probably the beginning for me.
I think I'll replay Discipline, I don't remember those endings.
Yeah, I'm with you about the shackling. There's been a lot of h-anime and games recently with that theme - girl being taken against her will over and over again until she starts enjoying it physically while at the same time hating it rationally. That's indeed very intense.
 

Agul

Member
Jun 19, 2017
314
1,472
Oh yeah, I remember those as well. But even before that... Now that you mentioned, I played Divi-dead and Desire. I think it was in Divi-dead that there was a NTRish scene that I had deleted from my mind until now. The protag was speaking with a girl and there was a jackass besides her fingering her from behind. That was probably the beginning for me.
I think I'll replay Discipline, I don't remember those endings.
Yeah, I'm with you about the shackling. There's been a lot of h-anime and games recently with that theme - girl being taken against her will over and over again until she starts enjoying it physically while at the same time hating it rationally. That's indeed very intense.
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Jul 22, 2019
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Netorare is inherently not just a question of enjoying infidelity through emotional masochism, it's a perspective on women and reproductive strategy.

---

When NTR happens, it's quite popular for it to be interracial or via "ugly bastard", thus some instinctual taboo is breached whether we acknowledge it or not. Whether we discuss race, attractiveness or age, NTR is concerned with subversion: that which should not be. Does this make NTR often racist and misogynistic? I don't really give a fuck but the answer is probably yes whether we care to examine it or not. Moving on. NTR is tied to the the corruption genre, but it really comes down to the debasement of women more often than not on the premise that they are doing something they shouldn't - something that brings them "down". It's sexy to see something held in high regard destroyed, for many people. We'll revisit this later. Moreover, one reason for the enjoyment of NTR is supposedly the idea of reproductive competition. You see it happen and you are driven to have your own horse in the race, if you will. I'm sure it's been thoroughly challenged by now but I remember reading theories that penises are shaped to scoop the semen of competing males from the vagina, thus making way for the subsequent copulators to have a chance at insemination.

When NTR comes from the buildup of a relationship; a real emotional and physical bond from time and resource, the feeling is incomparable to other forms of betrayal. Sex implicitly means conception when unnatural and exceptional circumstances are excluded, so the betrayal of a partner is the failure to pass on one's genes. This is arguably the greatest respect in which an organism can fail. NTR then, is not only the culmination of the failure to suceed in winning the affection of one's mate, but the rejection of that person completely and utterly in favour of carrying on the genes of another. Ignoring my long winded TED talk for a moment: this is why I insist that any good NTR comprise impregnation for this purpose. You can't have hard NTR without the reproductive implications of pregnancy. If someone you care for will carry the fruit of someone else for 9 months and take on the responsiblity of parenthood for the next 18 years, they are dominated either or in combination by affection, instinct, obligation or blind lust. There can be no greater stakes or subsequent pain.

The combination of this with that previously mentioned is incredibly sexy to some people. Something that is socially incomprehensible happens, a guy that should be off your radar not only fucks and impregnates your prospective mate, but their qualities far exceed expectations. The woman is degraded as a "whore" more often than not for prioritising sexual pleasure, but many NTR stories include a romantic element where the whims and inclinations of a woman are taken over by someone who has greater verbal and social ability. We'll ignore the racial element of BLACKED style NTR for the sake of brevity.

---

Our next section: people don't know what the fuck NTR means.

From VNDB:
"Netorare is more than a simple act of infidelity, but the fetishization of jealousy and other negative feelings commonly associated with it."


This means NTR can be divided into three distinct categories excluding Netori (stealing a lover) and Netorase (sharing):
Type A: The heroine is willingly cheating on the protagonist with another guy and enjoys every second of it. No rape, blackmail, drugs etc. involved, it's consensual sex from the very beginning.
Type B: Initially, the heroine is raped, blackmailed, drugged or otherwise tricked to have sex with someone other than the protagonist. However, she eventually starts enjoying it and the sex becomes fully consensual in the end.
Type C: The heroine is raped in front of the protagonist and he can only helplessly watch it. It's non-consensual from start to finish.

The best type is different from the others. I will give you this fleeting sentence to figure it out.

There you go.

If NTR is about your brain rewiring itself to turn emotional pain into pleasure, then Type B NTR perfectly characterises the struggle that gives the narrative payoff you are looking for. A and C are simply not capable of the ballbusting, heartbreaking revelations that a story with suspense and conflict is capable of. IMHO, if that wasn't obvious enough, the only way this genre can manifest itself fully is with the complete domination of a romantic interest following a dogged pursuit. The same devices used to create tension in conventional stories can be used to build sexual excitement here. Isn't NTR fun?

I would certainly argue that the differences between types, whilst important, are much less important than the distinctions between netorare, netori and netorase. This can tank games that are mainly about fucking other peoples women, more often than not. NTR is a scary tag for a lot of people.

---

bUt WhY wOuLd YoU lIkE tHiS? Cuck!

My wholly unbiased opinion is that the NTR (netorare only) fetish (at least partially) arises from sexual frustration and unrequited love in the early years, leading to the mind idealising sexual competition and protecting itself from hurt with pleasure.

This does not mean consumers of NTR are lining up to get their gfs bred, but I do think it explains the popularity of NTR. There is a greater awareness in our time of the chances any given male could be easily cheated on. Paternity uncertainty has been a thing for as long as we have existed in this form, only now are we feeling the effects of sexual liberation (if only in a conscious sense).

For some reason a lot of people on F95 think that netorare fans are the only people who manifest their fetish wherever possible in real life. I think the reason for this is that NTR represents such a horrifying taboo. To indulge in real life NTR would be to deny your own dignity and any future life coming from you. There isn't really any way to address something like this, it's evolutionary suicide. Not only to be anti-natal, but to be an active promoter of someone else's genes in the woman you love.

---

In summation

If it isn't already obvious, I've been meaning to give my thoughts on the genre for some time and this is the concise version. I do think NTR fans are just normal people living their fetish through doujins, hentai and porn games, not looking to give up the people they love in real life. What I've written here is how I see the genre but it's interesting to see how divisive NTR is even between the people who like it. This thread started because someone saw the popularity of NTR, but there's still a lot to exploit here.









So yeah, I want Netorare type B with impregnation, internal view, animation and sound. thnx
Also translate Tsumamigui 3. I promise the vanilla route is worth it for normies.
Wow, this is one of the most detailed, and imo accurate explanations of the whole thing. And I do agree, the fetish might arise from frustration/sexual rejection early in life, the mind just learns to interpret the emotional hurt and anguish as pleasure just so it can bear it. It is really sad actually the more you think about it.

As far as your assessment that it has to do with sexual competition, and the degeneration of the women into nothing but sexual objects, I think you hit the nail on the head right there. The whole implication that she's about to be impregnated by another man, meaning that your entire genetic legacy is at stake here, is what's at the core of it all. I remember reading the penis design of ducks being like a cork screw, to screw their way in to the female, also how multiple males essentially gangbang/rape a female. But the female developed its own mechanisms, she has multiple "holes" and only the male who puts it in the right hole gets to impregnate her.

EDIT: Just remembered squirrels have something similar, their semen hardens and plugs up the females' vagina, stopping the semen from leaking out, and also stopping other males from mating with her. But as always, the females also developed strategies and mechanisms by which they can remove the plug.

This whole backdrop of evolution and competition is what I'm always imagining in my head, but for humans. Example: The females developed a sexual strategy, to attract certain "weak" or "beta" males, and use them as resources (for money, house, everything else), only to use other more "stronger" or "desirable" males for reproduction. She can do this in secret, or maybe she can use other techniques to completely mindbreak her cuck and make him learn to love it so now she has him on her fingertips.

As for me I never really used to like this fetish, and I still am not a hardcore fan, but I always had femdom fetishes for as long as I can remember (idk why), so as long as there are clear psychological/physical femdom elements in the cuckolding, I'm game (but no making the the cuck suck the guys cock, that is just, no). I always have this habit of looking at a scene, and imagining the deeper implications of it, like with cuckolding the fact you are evolutionarily getting selected out etc, its weird, idk why I do this, but the more clearer the picture I get in my head, the more turned on I get.
 
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Agul

Member
Jun 19, 2017
314
1,472
As for me I never really used to like this fetish, and I still am not a hardcore fan, but I always had femdom fetishes for as long as I can remember (idk why), so as long as there are clear psychological/physical femdom elements in the cuckolding, I'm game (but no making the the cuck suck the guys cock, that is just, no). I always have this habit of looking at a scene, and imagining the deeper implications of it, like with cuckolding the fact you are evolutionarily getting selected out etc, its weird, idk why I do this, but the more clearer the picture I get in my head, the more turned on I get.
I can't say I've ever liked "sissy" or "felching/fluffing" stuff myself. Like you say, it's about implications and semantics more than rubbing someones face in it. Femdom is part and parcel of Sei Shoujo's work, so I might feel some of that myself. Women in control throws the whole thing up in the air. Recently, the release of Closed Game in english was underwhelming to me because the impregnation by others was understated. It was present, but hardly utilised fully.
 

Hryme

Member
Aug 15, 2016
270
228
I don't care about it at all. The reason is probably that I don't project myself into the main protagonist much. I have the same thing with movies and books. Not getting into the story on an emotional level. It is more like distant theater to me.

What annoys me is the amount of whining about it. Every new game there is a bunch of guys coming in just to warn the dev to not do NTR. Or freak out if they stumble over one scene they can interpret as NTR in an established game. If I controlled this site those wankers would be banned for life. Let the creative people create.
 
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262177

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,554
1,253
What annoys me is the amount of whining about it. Every new game there is a bunch of guys coming in just to warn the dev to not do NTR. Or freak out if they stumble over one scene they can interpret as NTR in an established game. If I controlled this site those wankers would be banned for life. Let the creative people create.
I don't exactly get this either. It almost feels like trolling or post-traumatic stress disorder when it's on every single thread for every single game.

Most people just shrug it off and go oh well if they find out a game suddenly has content they don't like. Varies between fetishes and individuals. Most likely a tolerance thing once again, but as you said, let the creative create, and to each their own...
 

jockywyness

Newbie
Nov 11, 2017
16
35
Alright, so I know there was a very detailed description posted above, but I still have a fairly fundamental (and probably oft-answered) question: is all cheating NTR, or does there have to be another element to it?

My perception of NTR is that in its basic form it involves one partner cheating on another with the intended effect (either by the cheater or the author) of hurting them, with that 'victim's' pain being the main erotic driver of the story. Does that sound right?
 

Duke Greene

Active Member
Feb 6, 2018
790
1,733
I don't care about it at all. The reason is probably that I don't project myself into the main protagonist much. I have the same thing with movies and books. Not getting into the story on an emotional level. It is more like distant theater to me.
That's the healthy way of consuming media imo. But there's a distinct and very vocal portion of f95zone users who are seemingly incapable of enjoying any work of fiction without putting themselves into the protagonist shoes... even if said protagonist was never meant to be a self-insert. I still remember a whiny rant on someone's profile (ThunderRob iirc) about how game devs should NEVER show the MC and ALWAYS give the option of naming him because their sworn duty is to allow the player to become the MC or something like that... It was truly mindboggling.

What annoys me is the amount of whining about it. Every new game there is a bunch of guys coming in just to warn the dev to not do NTR. Or freak out if they stumble over one scene they can interpret as NTR in an established game. If I controlled this site those wankers would be banned for life. Let the creative people create.
Yeah, this is very annoying. Even more so when you realize that only a minority of games actually have ntr in them. Creators should be allowed to create whatever they want... unless they're brush-wielding murderous little girls I guess.
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ScroxDieded

Member
Nov 6, 2017
249
374
I don't care about it at all. The reason is probably that I don't project myself into the main protagonist much. I have the same thing with movies and books. Not getting into the story on an emotional level. It is more like distant theater to me.

What annoys me is the amount of whining about it. Every new game there is a bunch of guys coming in just to warn the dev to not do NTR. Or freak out if they stumble over one scene they can interpret as NTR in an established game. If I controlled this site those wankers would be banned for life. Let the creative people create.
Yeah, the whining is really annoying.

But wait, so you don't experience catharsis with any form of media?
 
Jul 22, 2019
247
369
I don't care about it at all. The reason is probably that I don't project myself into the main protagonist much. I have the same thing with movies and books. Not getting into the story on an emotional level. It is more like distant theater to me.

What annoys me is the amount of whining about it. Every new game there is a bunch of guys coming in just to warn the dev to not do NTR. Or freak out if they stumble over one scene they can interpret as NTR in an established game. If I controlled this site those wankers would be banned for life. Let the creative people create.
Bro just the other day I saw a post on a game, someone was saying "The way that old man talked to her, I didn't like that, its borderline ntr for me, please don't do that again." What? :WaitWhat: :KEK:
 
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