VN Ren'Py Office Perks [v0.1.4] [Amomynous Games]

[Hungover00]

You make some really good points, and I can see a way to 'soften the blow', so to speak. There are a lot of hints given at the bar with Jenny/Jackson/Grace on Friday night that Jenny and Grace have something going on, but I could be more overt with it. The monagomy/exclusivity ultimatums will definitely come later in the game. None of these characters are exclusive with each other at this early point in their relationships. Jenny and Grace are not in a relationship, they are friends with benefits, so there is no cheating happening with anyone. Without spoiling anything, there are three different endings planned if you're on the Jenny or Grace path.

Some of the LI's are fine with it, others are going to want monogamy. But it's still very early in all of the relationships, so again, no one is exclusive yet. Jenny leaving on Saturday morning is likely going to get an update in the future because, continuity wise, you're right. All she has going on is getting a mani/pedi, so she shouldn't be rushing out. I'm taking all this feedback into consideration, and I appreciate the ideas.

I did get the sense there was something going on with Jenny and Grace from the night out, can't recall if there was a choice branch there, but you definitely sprinkled hints there that the audience could spot.

And just wanted to say, it's great that you're listening, responding, and considering implementing feedback. It bodes well for the quality of the game.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

You make some really good points, and I can see a way to 'soften the blow', so to speak. There are a lot of hints given at the bar with Jenny/Jackson/Grace on Friday night that Jenny and Grace have something going on, but I could be more overt with it. The monagomy/exclusivity ultimatums will definitely come later in the game. None of these characters are exclusive with each other at this early point in their relationships. Jenny and Grace are not in a relationship, they are friends with benefits, so there is no cheating happening with anyone. Without spoiling anything, there are three different endings planned if you're on the Jenny or Grace path.

Some of the LI's are fine with it, others are going to want monogamy. But it's still very early in all of the relationships, so again, no one is exclusive yet. Jenny leaving on Saturday morning is likely going to get an update in the future because, continuity wise, you're right. All she has going on is getting a mani/pedi, so she shouldn't be rushing out. I'm taking all this feedback into consideration, and I appreciate the ideas.

I get what you're saying brother but some people are different



for me and some people

if we're with a girl we don't mess around with anyone else even if the relationship is not serious

and we understand not everybody feels that way but if a girl is with someone else she should let us know before

it's a rare thing but some men and women don't like the idea of someone they're dating fooling around with someone else

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think this game should probably have multiple on and off routes for the LIs, if it is going for more of a grounded slice of life style. Having the options to nope out of Jenny once more is revealed, and try again at Eva (if the player wanted the mono route with Jenny) if you had passed earlier. And just to reinforce, this is the first week the MC is working and properly in town, meeting people. That's extremely fast to ask someone to give you their entire history. Especially since it's not a full week, but rather a few encounters spread across the week.

Thinking of it from the game dev side, hard separating LIs will, at some point, probably require content for each LI for each day. Which sounds like a lot of work. But worth it, if that's the game the dev wants to make.

we do not want her entire history we just want her to be up front that she's seeing someone

so we could be like okay no thank you

but hey if things don't work out with the other person and you're not seeing anybody give us a call

and we wish her all the best

 

[Hungover00]

if we're with a girl we don't mess around with anyone else even if the relationship is not serious

and we understand not everybody feels that way but if a girl is with someone else she should let us know before

it's a rare thing but some men and women don't like the idea of someone they're dating fooling around with someone else

I think the issue is coming from the conflict between two things, it being a rare thing that people in non serious relationships want monogamy, and that you expect them to know and reveal that information right away. That ends up being more of a you problem, though perhaps the dev can put in an early option for you so the MC says they only date sequentially, and only want to date people who do that as well.

I believe the norm in dating circles is to ignore the idea of your dates going on other dates until you know if things will likely become more serious, and then starting to have deeper conversations about the issue. It would be exhausting and off-putting to jump through those hoops before you know if there's a spark or other layers of compatibility.

But, I do fully support there being the option to make that clear in the game, if the Dev has the time, energy, and inclination for it.

 

[Vasy]

I don't necessarily have a huge issue with the way Jenny and Grace's situation is revealed — although it would've been nice for one of them to mention it earlier — but too few VNs give the player the opportunity to back out of a path after similar reveals.

I think the simple option to say "that's great for you two, but I'm not really into that" would go a long way.

 

[Hungover00]

we do not want her entire history we just want her to be up front that she's seeing someone

so we could be like okay no thank you

but hey if things don't work out with the other person and you're not seeing anybody give us a call

and we wish her all the best

I think part of this ends up in the nuances of 'seeing someone.'

I'd probably break most dating into 4 stages:
Stage 1: Early/non-romantic.
Stage 2: Mid./knowing each other better.
Stage 3: Late/growing closer to each other.
Stage 4: Committed relationship (open, exclusive, or otherwise)

Most 1-3rd dates probably fall into stage 1, and it could be argued so do FwBs. Stage 2 would probably be where folk start to talk about more of their history and present, including dating and whatnot, but still with no commitment. This is where I would expect disclosures of this kind, what they expect/looking for from a relationship, etc., happen. This could last months, if dates were occasional. Stage 3 would be really delving in, talking about life goals, kids, marriage, what the future might hold, while also continuing to test compatibility and getting to know each other. Finding out about any surprises now would be pretty hurtful unless something was made clear in an earlier stage. It would likely blow up the burgeoning relationship for most people, unless things were above board. Stage 4 is making it official. If the couple hasn't defined themselves as monogamous, open, sharing, poly, etc., they were doing it wrong. This is the back end where it really isn't dating anymore, but being in a relationship.

One thing for the dev I hadn't really thought of because of the genre (AVN), but if this is a more realistic slice of life project, then addressing sexual safety is definitely part of that first stage of things, especially if people aren't considered/expected to be monogamous. I think most AVNs avoid it for a lot of small reasons, but it is a real consideration on the more serious side of things. That said, the vibe I got off this project was more on the fun side of realism, and prophylactics and safe sex talk can probably be handwaved in those circumstances. But I do recall it being satisfying in another AVN (can't recall which one atm) having a LI talk about using the toilet after sex to avoid UTIs. Sometimes the extra realism can be rewarding, sometimes it can get in the way of the fun.

 

[Hungover00]

I understand that if you like non-serious relationships, it's not a problem at all, but not everyone likes that kind of relationship. If I'm meeting someone I might be interested in, I don't fuck anyone behind her back.
For me it's not a problem that they do things with each other. It's the lack of information. When they go out that night the choices you have are at the beginning of the night, before you know anything. (During the night you might get to intuit that they are more than friends, and that they know each other more than well) And you no longer have the option to cancel the blowjob with Jenny.
An example of how to do it is Bare Witness, first you see what's there and then you decide. That way you avoid unpleasant surprises

Bare Witness is one of the pinnacles to informed consent and player autonomy in relationships. I'm fully on board with what you're saying and agree, more information earlier, and more choices later, would be good for this game and games in general. As a rule you should be able to nope out of sex right before the sex starts, so I agree with you there. In reality you can nope out after it has started, but that's going to be harder to code (though I believe 'A Shot in the Dark' has a safe-word system for BDSM scenes, which should be stolen and implemented by every other dev, in my opinion).

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think part of this ends up in the nuances of 'seeing someone.'

I'd probably break most dating into 4 stages:
Stage 1: Early/non-romantic.
Stage 2: Mid./knowing each other better.
Stage 3: Late/growing closer to each other.
Stage 4: Committed relationship (open, exclusive, or otherwise)

Most 1-3rd dates probably fall into stage 1, and it could be argued so do FwBs. Stage 2 would probably be where folk start to talk about more of their history and present, including dating and whatnot, but still with no commitment. This is where I would expect disclosures of this kind, what they expect/looking for from a relationship, etc., happen. This could last months, if dates were occasional. Stage 3 would be really delving in, talking about life goals, kids, marriage, what the future might hold, while also continuing to test compatibility and getting to know each other. Finding out about any surprises now would be pretty hurtful unless something was made clear in an earlier stage. It would likely blow up the burgeoning relationship for most people, unless things were above board. Stage for is making it official. If the couple hasn't defined themselves as monogamous, open, sharing, poly, etc., they were doing it wrong. This is the back end where it really isn't dating anymore, but being in a relationship.

One thing for the dev I hadn't really thought of because of the genre (AVN), but if this is a more realistic slice of life project, then addressing sexual safety is definitely part of that first stage of things, especially if people aren't considered/expected to be monogamous. I think most AVNs avoid it for a lot of small reasons, but it is a real consideration on the more serious side of things. That said, the vibe I got off this project was more on the fun side of realism, and prophylactics and safe sex talk can probably be handwaved in those circumstances. But I do recall it being satisfying in another AVN (can't recall which one atm) having a LI talk about using the toilet after sex to avoid UTIs. Sometimes the extra realism can be rewarding, sometimes it can get in the way of the fun.

and there is nothing wrong with that if it works for you

but my brother what I'm saying is not everybody is like that

some people don't like dating multiple people at once

and I don't like getting messages from someone that they were just with someone else

 

[Hungover00]

and there is nothing wrong with that if it works for you

but my brother what I'm saying is not everybody is like that

some people don't like dating multiple people at once

and I don't like getting messages from someone that they were just with someone else

I think we're on the same side of the issue, just coming at it from different directions. I agree with you that the norm is not for everyone. It sounds like you would prefer to jump straight to my stage 2. And honestly, I don't think it's usually about liking to date multiple people at once, it's more about logistics and realistic expectations of virtual strangers. I think the majority of people would like if everyone they dated wasn't dating someone else, but also accepts that there is often a tipping point of emotional investment and a level of intimacy being reached before that can be reasonably expected.

But that's more of a tangent, I think we both agree that more options are needed to not be pushed into a complicated relationship, more clear information earlier would be good, and even being able to state your boundaries earlier could help the game, especially for following monogamous paths. Also, I didn't like how the messages scene went either, though I understand to a lesser degree than yourself. But the dev seems to realise intent didn't match outcome, so is looking to fix that.

I think we agree on more than we disagree about.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think we're on the same side of the issue, just coming at it from different directions. I agree with you that the norm is not for everyone. It sounds like you would prefer to jump straight to my stage 2. And honestly, I don't think it's usually about liking to date multiple people at once, it's more about logistics and realistic expectations of virtual strangers. I think the majority of people would like if everyone they dated wasn't dating someone else, but also accepts that there is often a tipping point of emotional investment and a level of intimacy being reached before that can be reasonably expected.

But that's more of a tangent, I think we both agree that more options are needed to not be pushed into a complicated relationship, more clear information earlier would be good, and even being able to state your boundaries earlier could help the game, especially for following monogamous paths. Also, I didn't like how the messages scene went either, though I understand to a lesser degree than yourself. But the dev seems to realise intent didn't match outcome, so is looking to fix that.

I think we agree on more than we disagree about.

exactly brother and I was worried because of my reading disability I couldn't explain properly

 

[Hungover00]

exactly brother and I was worried because of my reading disability I couldn't explain properly

Nah, I think it was me just going off topic too much and confusing things by trying to discuss the game on shifting topics (particular scene, personal preferences, real world sociology, game development decisions, etc.) that muddied things. You're all good, I wasn't ever disagreeing with you because I thought you were wrong or your opinions were invalid, I was enjoying the discussion and trying to approach it from a bunch of different directions and weighing different values. Sorry that I caused you stress.

 

[Amomynous Games]

I don't necessarily have a huge issue with the way Jenny and Grace's situation is revealed — although it would've been nice for one of them to mention it earlier — but too few VNs give the player the opportunity to back out of a path after similar reveals.

I think the simple option to say "that's great for you two, but I'm not really into that" would go a long way.

I think you are right. The way the interest system works is if you provide positive responses or flirt, interest levels rise and you will get further scenes (whatever those may be). A simple "I'm not into that" response to Jenny/Grace at the bar could swing those interest levels one way or the other. Everyone is informed, everyone is consenting (or not) and there is no further conflict.

Having multiple on/off routes would also help, so if you were playing the strictly Jenny path, and ended up not wanting to move forward, there should be further opportunities to get back on other LI paths.

Everyone is making good points, and I am weighing them carefully. Jenny and Grace have a long history together, a very strong bond, and they're FWBs. This isn't going to change. But what can change is the MC's knowledge of it and whether or not he wants to continue pursuing it. It is too early in their relationship for MC to ask Jenny to be exclusive.

Again, not to spoil anything, but as these relationships get deeper, exclusivity will play a part, which could provide for some meaningful conversations and decisions for all of the characters later down the line.

 

[Amomynous Games]

I like the Jenny model one of the few games that does her right. So far the game is good I hope there will be animations in the future. I'm going to assume this is probably not a Harem. Maybe only with Jenny and Grace but others I can see some bad shit happen later.

Animations are planned for future releases. It's not a harem game. There are some LI's that are ok with polyamory, others that are not.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Nah, I think it was me just going off topic too much and confusing things by trying to discuss the game on shifting topics (particular scene, personal preferences, real world sociology, game development decisions, etc.) that muddied things. You're all good, I wasn't ever disagreeing with you because I thought you were wrong or your opinions were invalid, I was enjoying the discussion and trying to approach it from a bunch of different directions and weighing different values. Sorry that I caused you stress.

oh don't worry about it brother I enjoyed talking to people about their different opinions

 

[MurrayMods]

NTR is not planned. Group sex yes, but not full Harem. If I say anything about pregnancy, I might just be spoiling things.

The main LI is on a full lesbian relationship with her best friend. At the same time she is starting an hetero sexual relationship with the MC. LI sends graphic content over the phone to the MC of her lesbian relationship with her friend but does not allow the MC to participate, also LI's making jokes on how the MC can easily be replaced. On the phone, the MC only can simp a dinner date out of her. This is 100 % NTR. In my opinion, if the LI is willingly involved in more than one sexual relation at the same time is sharing/NTR, doesn't matter that LI is bisexual. The NTR Tag should be raised.
Personally, it doesn't bother me at all, but I'm developing a walkthrough Mod for this game and I would like to set a warning for this scene. Maybe some fellow gamers like being warned and decide not pursue this LI route.

 

[Amomynous Games]

The main LI is on a full lesbian relationship with her best friend. At the same time she is starting an hetero sexual relationship with the MC. LI send graphic content over the phone to the the MC of her lesbian relationship with her friend but does not allow the MC to participate, also LI's making jokes on how MC can easily be replaced. On the phone, the MC just simp a dinner date out of her. This es 100 % NTR. in my opinion, if the LI is willingly involved in more than one sexual relation at the same time is sharing/NTR, doesn't matter that LI is bisexual. The NTR Tag should be raised.
Personally, it doesn't bother me at all, but I'm developing an walkthroug Mod for this game and I would like to set a warning for this scene. Maybe some fellow gamers like being warned and decide not pursue this LI route.

After all the discussion around this topic, these scenes are being slightly rewritten with more upfront disclosure of their FWB status, and giving the player the choice to continue pursuing or not.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

The main LI is on a full lesbian relationship with her best friend. At the same time she is starting an hetero sexual relationship with the MC. LI send graphic content over the phone to the the MC of her lesbian relationship with her friend but does not allow the MC to participate, also LI's making jokes on how MC can easily be replaced. On the phone, the MC just simp a dinner date out of her. This es 100 % NTR. in my opinion, if the LI is willingly involved in more than one sexual relation at the same time is sharing/NTR, doesn't matter that LI is bisexual. The NTR Tag should be raised.
Personally, it doesn't bother me at all, but I'm developing an walkthroug Mod for this game and I would like to set a warning for this scene. Maybe some fellow gamers like being warned and decide not pursue this LI route.

I agree while I don't have anything against lesbian content but I do consider it ntr

but is just how I feel and it is just my opinion

but I know that what I consider NtR may not be NtR

keep in mind that I am a monogamy player and

my taste and point of view may not be the same as everybody else

what I consider ntr maybe hot lesbian content to everybody else

 

[Amomynous Games]

You don't need to be all or nothing, if for example you answer "I'm not into that", you can give us the option to continue the path, without the need to show us how they fuck each other in the messages. Just because it's not a serious relationship doesn't mean we want to see that kind of stuff.

I understand, and I am considering all of the options here.

 

[Amomynous Games]

I agree while I don't have anything against lesbian content but I do consider it ntr

but is just how I feel and it is just my opinion

but I know that what I consider NtR may not be NtR

keep in mind that I am a monogamy player and

my taste and point of view may not be the same as everybody else

what I consider ntr maybe hot lesbian content to everybody else

After thinking about it for a few hours and weighing all of the options, Jenny and Grace being FWBs does not have any significant importance or impact to the main story line. I think the easiest solution here is that they aren't FWBs, and just very close friends. This only changes a couple of small scenes and some dialog with Jenny at Sunday night dinner. It simply doesn't matter if they are or are not FWBs, so it's a detail that does not need to be included and is obviously causing friction.

The intent of Jenny and Grace being FWBs was:
1. To show that Jenny is a progressive girl, even though she comes across as the corporate/stuffy type of person.
2. To setup future group events with Jenny and Grace
3. Simple playfulness and lightheartedness

So, I will update these scenes accordingly. The planned endings will likely remain, but we'll see how it shakes out with these slight adjustments.

 

[Hungover00]

After thinking about it for a few hours and weighing all of the options, Jenny and Grace being FWBs does not have any significant importance or impact to the main story line. I think the easiest solution here is that they aren't FWBs, and just very close friends. This only changes a couple of small scenes and some dialog with Jenny at Sunday night dinner. It simply doesn't matter if they are or are not FWBs, so it's a detail that does not need to be included and is obviously causing friction.

The intent of Jenny and Grace being FWBs was:
1. Jenny is a progressive girl, even though she comes across as the corporate/stuffy type of person.
2. To setup future group events with Jenny and Grace
3. Simple playfulness and lightheartedness

So, I will update these scenes accordingly. The planned endings will likely remain, but we'll see how it shakes out with these slight adjustments.

My vote, if this were a democracy, would be to have them be FWBs in the past, it's just not active right now for whatever reason. No breakup, just more focused on other things, or not feeling it at the moment. Therefore they still have that bond and level of intimacy established, but it's not an ongoing relationship that may complicate things for players. You can also still keep the pictures, just frame them as something Jenny shares with MC as inspiration, but make it a choice "Hey MC, would you like to see some pics of Grace and I getting naughty from awhile back? She said I could show them if you were interested." Still shows all of those 1, 2, 3 goals, but avoiding the friction of an established relationship.