VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12.3 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[ffive]

I guess we just have to have different opinions on this, but I just don't see Jeremy getting with Alison as a default

I think it's pretty viable -- out of them two it's not Ian but Jeremy who first sees Alison as someone to have sex with and not just a platonic friend. (and brings it to Ian's attention) Ian can potentially disagree, but Jeremy always has this mindset and will hit on Alison unless Ian asks him to stay away.

 

[BlandChili]

I think it's pretty viable -- out of them two it's not Ian but Jeremy who first sees Alison as someone to have sex with and not just a platonic friend. (and brings it to Ian's attention) Ian can potentially disagree, but Jeremy always has this mindset and will hit on Alison unless Ian asks him to stay away.

And thus "player interference" to change Ian's mind, huh?
To be honest I don't really care what Jeremy's opinions are, just what the main characters can realistically achieve and given Alison's crush on Ian I think it makes more sense that they get together if Ian is even just minimally interested in achieving it.

If there was some route where Jeremy could get with Alison in spite of Ian's best efforts I'd buy it more readily.
That'd of course piss a lot of players off even more!

 

[ffive]

If there was some route where Jeremy could get with Alison in spite of Ian's best efforts I'd buy it more readily.
That'd of course piss a lot of players off even more!

Yup, you'd have the cries of "unavoidable NTR" pretty much guaranteed. I mean, we already get a slight taste with all the freaking out over Cindy possibly fucking Axel no matter what.

 

[Gicoo]

I don't really see why this is an interesting exercise though

It's extremely useful if we want to nail down the characters and consider what they are the most likeliest to do.

if Ian wasn't there Jeremy and Alison wouldn't be meeting up and therefore wouldn't have sex anyway.

Alison is eager for attention and stress relieve. Quickly after her break up she contacted the two guys she would hit it off. She even contacted Jeremy earlier. If Ian wasn't there, Jeremy and Alison would text more, then meet up and fuck.
Alison fucks Jeremy in 95% of every scenario. She only denies him if Ian is exclusive with her. Not because Jeremy sucks, but because Ian is the ideal boyfriend in Alisons mind.

Sure, but doesn't the other option have a requirment as well? Last time I played that bit it had a lust icon, but that might just have been because that Lena focused on Jeremy's cock earlier.

I don't recall that, but thats interesting. Isn't the above choice still dependant on her friendship with Louise? One of the two choices has to be default, else the player would be stuck.

but I just don't see Jeremy getting with Alison as a default, I'd say it's more circumstantial, it happens if you care about Perry or want Ian with Cherry more.

If she really wanted to focus on Ian, she wouldn't let him touch her. Ian really has to show interest, or else she shifts to Jeremy without hesitation. Because Jeremy makes her move on her and she likes that in general.



And if we talk about canon, I expect we all agree that it would be Ian/Lena (maybe Holly, considering how much Eva likes her) and anyone else takes a backseat. I don't see Alison in particular being Ians default woman. If anything she is Jeremys fuckbuddy by default, Ian has to go out of his way to prevent that.

 

[| Vee |]

I think it's pretty viable -- out of them two it's not Ian but Jeremy who first sees Alison as someone to have sex with and not just a platonic friend. (and brings it to Ian's attention) Ian can potentially disagree, but Jeremy always has this mindset and will hit on Alison unless Ian asks him to stay away.

Jeremy sees a girl, he just wants to fuck her and the cycle continues. That's Jeremy's life and mindset.

He doesn't stay away whether Ian tells him to stay away or not.

Yup, you'd have the cries of "unavoidable NTR" pretty much guaranteed. I mean, we already get a slight taste with all the freaking out over Cindy possibly fucking Axel no matter what.

Than what's the point of having choices if everything leads to "Unavoidable NTR"?

 

[Xupuzulla]

It's a roleplaying game, I don't really see the point in arguing for neutrality anyway. We play the characters in the way we like, right?

Thats the thing,we all perceive this game in different ways,we all have differents morals so what is neutral to you is not going to neutral to others.
In the end if Lena and Ian end up as shitty people or the nicest is up to the player.

 

[SanicTheHegehog]

Worst example I ever encountered was this character Corso Riggs in SWTOR, there is a conversation very early on where you have to reject him somewhat harshly when you play as a female character, otherwise the game locks you into his romance even though you can get through that conversation with no flirtation whatsoever.
This game is quite obvious with its sexual interactions, so no worries there.

didnt expect someone to talk about swtor here

 

[Krysis_here]

Thats the thing,we all perceive this game in different ways,we all have differents morals so what is neutral to you is not going to neutral to others.
In the end if Lena and Ian end up as shitty people or the nicest is up to the player.

It's True How the Players Play and Choose the Option it will Lead them to the Characters and their final part. Now Look at Lena She is Struggling from the Very Beginning

Spoiler: Lena Broken

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[BlandChili]

Yup, you'd have the cries of "unavoidable NTR" pretty much guaranteed. I mean, we already get a slight taste with all the freaking out over Cindy possibly fucking Axel no matter what.

Even more so since Alison is framed as the first girl Ian can have sex scenes with. Imagine if it was actually hard to get!

It's extremely useful if we want to nail down the characters and consider what they are the most likeliest to do.

Well, I said interesting not useful
Fair enough, it's fine for such an argument but since Lena and Ian are in the game and this can't be changed I'll leave those points to those of you who find them interesting to discuss.

Alison is eager for attention and stress relieve. Quickly after her break up she contacted the two guys she would hit it off. She even contacted Jeremy earlier. If Ian wasn't there, Jeremy and Alison would text more, then meet up and fuck.
Alison fucks Jeremy in 95% of every scenario.

But Ian is there. My point was that we can't remove him because the possibilities become endless.

She only denies him if Ian is exclusive with her.

Can you explain this more? My Ian has no problem getting with any of the girls he wants at this point in the story, Alison doesn't go away from him unless he goes for Emma down the line.

I don't recall that, but thats interesting. Isn't the above choice still dependant on her friendship with Louise? One of the two choices has to be default, else the player would be stuck.

I think it's just an indicator. I tried playing through it just now where I didn't gain any friendship with Louise but wasn't interested in Jeremy either, the option had no lust icon. In my old save it still had it though.
I guess it just changes Lena's reasoning for why she would no tell Louise depending on your choices?

If she really wanted to focus on Ian, she wouldn't let him touch her. Ian really has to show interest, or else she shifts to Jeremy without hesitation. Because Jeremy makes her move on her and she likes that in general.

Eh, keep in mind that Alison's crush is an old and unfulfilled one, it's not that weird that she's receptive towards someone who shows their desires more candidly.
Fair enough, you think it makes more sense as a default outcome, I don't. Like I said I think you have to be as deliberate not to get Ian/Alison as you have to be to not get them.

And if we talk about canon, [...]

We don't, I abhor designations of "canonical" events. It's why I dislike the GGGB cameos so much.

didnt expect someone to talk about swtor here

It's an old game by now, I think many people here have at least tried it.

 

[SerHawkes]

Jeremy only cares for one thing: Sex. Even when he has a pretty good thing going with Louise, who is putting out by the way, it's this 'player' mentality of having the next notch on the bed post.

With Alison, even if Ian tells him to stay away from her HE LITERALLY DOESN'T. He tries to shoot his shot and depending on Ian, fails horribly or gets a pity fuck to try and make Ian jealous. Hell, even if we aren't with Alison, he brags and talks shit about how great it was and what not, all while Alison is simping for Ian, even when we aren't interested in that YandereSnatch.

The bottom line is this: No matter how many people try to defend the guy, which I laugh at the jumping through hoops type of logic, the dude is scum. He doesn't care about Ian or any of his bros, just the next piece of ass he can lay his pipe in. Not to mention the dude is completely pathetic in needing BOTH Ian to curb favor with Ivy about her "possible" interest in the guy, but also Lena to line up a possible pity fuck. And even then, given the guy has nothing going for him other than his dick size, with no stamina to speak of, I find it laughable that he could "satisfy" Ivy at all. Though I know most would go full 'In your face Hawkes' were that to happen. (Jokes on them I have them on ignore.)

But I digress...

 

[Gicoo]

Can you explain this more? My Ian has no problem getting with any of the girls he wants at this point in the story, Alison doesn't go away from him unless he goes for Emma down the line.

Fine, Ian doesn't need to go as far as being exclusive, but as long as Ian gives her attention, she stays loyal to him. Doesn't matter regarding your original claim that Alison only goes for Jeremy because Ian arranged a meeting.

 

[BlandChili]

Fine, Ian doesn't need to go as far as being exclusive, but as long as Ian gives her attention, she stays loyal to him. Doesn't matter regarding your original claim that Alison only goes for Jeremy because Ian arranged a meeting.

I never claimed Alison only goes for Jeremy because Ian arranges a meeting, what?

 

[Gicoo]

I never claimed Alison only goes for Jeremy because Ian arranges a meeting, what?

->

if Ian wasn't there Jeremy and Alison wouldn't be meeting up and therefore wouldn't have sex anyway.

Again, Alison already contacted Jeremy and teased him. They would 100% meet and fuck, even more so if Ian was out of the picture. He is the only person that can prevent this.

 

[BlandChili]

->


Again, Alison already contacted Jeremy and teased him. They would 100% meet and fuck, even more so if Ian was out of the picture. He is the only person that can prevent this.

Oh that.
Remember the context though, it was a deliberately facetious argument, I prefaced that sentence you quoted with.

I don't really see why this is an interesting exercise though, Ian and Lena are the game after all

So the point I was making wasn't "Alison and Jeremy would never have had sex without Ian" and more that "It makes no sense to remove Ian because you could make any argument if you change the circumstances."

 

[Gicoo]

Oh that.
Remember the context though, it was a deliberately facetious argument, I prefaced that sentence you quoted with.

So the point I was making wasn't "Alison and Jeremy would never have had sex without Ian" and more that "It makes no sense to remove Ian because you could make any argument if you change the circumstances."

The game gives the option to remove Ian and Lena quite often (e.g. if they don't follow a path or give no or dismissive answers) and it shows how the characters progress "normally" without the player interfering. So its not "any" argument but a valuable one supported by the game. We can ascertain fairly easily how the characters would behave and develop without Ian and Lena, because its half done already. E.g. Wade and Cindy normally falling apart since Wade is clueless and unempathic about relationship and his partners perspective, Cindy distancing herself from Wade because she is unable to communicate her stance etc.

 

[Xupuzulla]

It's True How the Players Play and Choose the Option it will Lead them to the Characters and their final part. Now Look at Lena She is Struggling from the Very Beginning

Spoiler: Lena Broken

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Futaba reminds of Holly,geek characters who need to get a grip and a bath ASAP.

 

[BlandChili]

The game gives the option to remove Ian and Lena quite often (e.g. if they don't follow a path or give no or dismissive answers) and it shows how the characters progress "normally" without the player interfering.

I think "Ian not going with Alison" is the same "player interference" as choosing to go with her.

So its not "any" argument but a valuable one supported by the game.

Yeah, so is the other option. Both are supported by the game. Remember I'm not protesting Alison and Jeremy getting together, I'm protesting that it should be seen as a neutral or default state. I think Ian matters.

We can ascertain fairly easily how the characters would behave and develop without Ian and Lena, because its half done already. E.g. Wade and Cindy normally falling apart since Wade is clueless and unempathic about relationship and his partners perspective, Cindy distancing herself from Wade because she is unable to communicate her stance etc.

But you're still interfering as the player by choosing to play Ian as a person who doesn't interfere.

 

[markel1000]

I read other people thoughts about Jeremy. I'll give mine. 1. He has no loyalty as a supposed best friend if ian pulls Alison he dosent backoff starts begging to share. 2. The shit he pulled with ians ex not letting him know she was in town still pisses me off. I would of dropped him right there if ian didnt seem so loyal to his friends. 3. The MMA tournament Sums up his character flaws pretty well the way he disrespects judo when it would legit compliment his striking shows his lack of change witch i feel will be a downfall of his play boy life style

 

[yuvce]

2. The shit he pulled with ians ex not letting him know she was in town still pisses me off. I would of dropped him right there if ian didnt seem so loyal to his friends.

This right here. This alone makes him an ass. I wouldn't even be shocked if he knew who Gillian's current boyfriend is but kept quiet like a little bitch to cover for Mike. But he mentions it to Alison instead of Ian because.... why exactly? The minute Ian drops both of them, I'm celebrating idc.

 

[Blurpee69]

Jesus, a man takes a day off to celebrate the Super Bowl victory, and ya'll go on a rampage without me.

Far too many messages for me to quote, so it's likely I will have missed some people's messages so here goes.

Jeremy has no self-respect. His "player" personality is a façade. SearingFive put it best; he's a horndog. He pretends to think to highly of himself to mask his desperation. All he does is grovel. He doesn't score with Emma unless Ian gives his blessing to go after his sloppy seconds. He was a pawn used by Ivy to rattle Louise. She preyed on his weakness and lack of discipline. But it only gets to that point if Lena doesn't spill the beans to Louise. Speaking of Louise, she was only head over heels for him only because she's too insecure about herself and too stupid to see how little attention he was giving to her.
Alison has admitted on numerous occasions that Jeremy's the last person she'd want to be involved with. She spends half her time simping for Ian, Jeremy's a tool to her. He gets her only if Ian is smart enough not to pursue a yandere. If he had as much pull as he thinks he does, he wouldn't need to grovel to Ian, Lena, or Ivy.

At his core, he's an idiot. He has no stamina, no pull, and no brains. Just an insatiable libido that'll probably turn him into a rapist because in the most recent chapter 12 prologue, he self-admitted that he doesn't take no for answer and that "where there's a will, there's a way." He doesn't think carefully about who to involve himself with. As long as he gets to put his dick in a living woman, anything goes. He's scum, and Ian needs to drop his ass.

Jeremy only cares for one thing: Sex. Even when he has a pretty good thing going with Louise, who is putting out by the way, it's this 'player' mentality of having the next notch on the bed post.

With Alison, even if Ian tells him to stay away from her HE LITERALLY DOESN'T. He tries to shoot his shot and depending on Ian, fails horribly or gets a pity fuck to try and make Ian jealous. Hell, even if we aren't with Alison, he brags and talks shit about how great it was and what not, all while Alison is simping for Ian, even when we aren't interested in that YandereSnatch.

The bottom line is this: No matter how many people try to defend the guy, which I laugh at the jumping through hoops type of logic, the dude is scum. He doesn't care about Ian or any of his bros, just the next piece of ass he can lay his pipe in. Not to mention the dude is completely pathetic in needing BOTH Ian to curb favor with Ivy about her "possible" interest in the guy, but also Lena to line up a possible pity fuck. And even then, given the guy has nothing going for him other than his dick size, with no stamina to speak of, I find it laughable that he could "satisfy" Ivy at all. Though I know most would go full 'In your face Hawkes' were that to happen. (Jokes on them I have them on ignore.)

But I digress...

Those are very long winded ways of saying that Jeremy is a himbo. Jeremy simply isn't capable of thinking through the consequences of his words or actions beyond his next lay. He's malicious in his ignorance.

Furthermore, we'll get a curve ball from EK that Ivy is only for Lena.

Even though I'm not into her myself I'd actually respect the hell out of Eva if she decided to make the #1 Cockbait character only be available for the female main character.

Ivy was originally planned to be a Lena exclusive character, and recently started to get "involved" with Ian after a lot of push-back (ie whining) from the Patrons. From my understanding the planned Ian content is still minimal, Emma was also supposed to be Ian exclusive, but looks like that recently changed too.