VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[Homemade]

Oh, look, Everyone's favorite Character Robert is going somewhere...

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[ename144]

It’s difficult to say what is wrong with Lena’s alternate routes. I personally like Lena’s character and I can also connect to her, even if I am a male. She is a hard-working young girl and cares for her family even if she has a complicated relationship with her mother. She has clear moral believes and maybe she is a bit too much under a bad influence of her friend (Ivy).

With this in mind a lot of Lena’s alternate content doesn’t fit for me. I like the Lena / Holly story and also like the Lena/Louise content, but the rest is just a loss of time. And it’s not because I think Lena should only have sex with Ian, it’s because I really dislike the character of Robert, Mike, Jeremy and Axel. Robert is a complete idiot (I know the Robert fan boys are coming after me…) and Lena is completely out of his league, so can’t image why Lana should have sex with him, even if she would be horny af. For Mike / Jeremy Lena is just another trophy. And Axel is just Axel, Mr. Perfect Asshole.

Also, the story with Seymour leads to pretty predictable ending. And maybe most disappoint thing is, that all these stories lead to Lena being on the weaker end. Okay, I don’t know how Eva Kiss is planning the ending of the game, but I don’t see anything of intriguing especially compared to Ian’s possibilities. And this is the big difference, on Ian’s side all options are somehow interesting, some are better (Lena, Holly, Alison, Cherry) some are more conflicted (Emma (fucking the girl your best friend is in love with), Cindy).

Personally, I think the problem with Lena's content boils down to the fact that, unless you're just in it for the lewd corruption, it's not much fun.

Lena's life is legitimately miserable: she had to drop out of school, she's nearly broke, her friends are often problematic at best, she has no career prospects and now she's the target of a sexual predator with unlimited resources. And none of this is played for laughs or confined to the background. It's bulk of her content, relentlessly portrayed in all the gory details. Ian is pretty much the only exception to this (other than Holly who is still a work in progress at this point). Even Louise feel more like a drain on her sanity than a source of comfort, and the options fall off precipitously from there.

The big advantage GGGB had over ORS is that it didn't take itself nearly as seriously. You could play the story straight if you wanted (staying faithful to Eric, bringing out the wounded soul in Jack, that sort of thing), but if you wanted to throw back and really go wild it was sufficiently over the top that it didn't really register as the same character doing both things. With Lena, we spend so much time establishing her mindset, her backstory, her stats, even how she's seen by Ian, that it's hard to really fit both extremes of the character into the same game.

Ian does have some of the same problems, but it's mitigated by his less precarious situation and by the way his friends (including romantic options like Allison and Holly) seem capable of making his life better rather than adding as much angst as the they remove. I respect the craftsmanship of ORS, but there aren't a lot of scenes I replay just to enjoy them again.

 

[JohnnySolo]

Personally, I think the problem with Lena's content boils down to the fact that, unless you're just in it for the lewd corruption, it's not much fun.

Lena's life is legitimately miserable: she had to drop out of school, she's nearly broke, her friends are often problematic at best, she has no career prospects and now she's the target of a sexual predator with unlimited resources. And none of this is played for laughs or confined to the background. It's bulk of her content, relentlessly portrayed in all the gory details. Ian is pretty much the only exception to this (other than Holly who is still a work in progress at this point). Even Louise feel more like a drain on her sanity than a source of comfort, and the options fall off precipitously from there.

The big advantage GGGB had over ORS is that it didn't take itself nearly as seriously. You could play the story straight if you wanted (staying faithful to Eric, bringing out the wounded soul in Jack, that sort of thing), but if you wanted to throw back and really go wild it was sufficiently over the top that it didn't really register as the same character doing both things. With Lena, we spend so much time establishing her mindset, her backstory, her stats, even how she's seen by Ian, that it's hard to really fit both extremes of the character into the same game.

Ian does have some of the same problems, but it's mitigated by his less precarious situation and by the way his friends (including romantic options like Allison and Holly) seem capable of making his life better rather than adding as much angst as the they remove. I respect the craftsmanship of ORS, but there aren't a lot of scenes I replay just to enjoy them again.

Pretty much straight to the point, couldn’t describe it better.

Let’s hope that at least from the “good” content we get something out of these little seeds (musician career & political activist) which have been planted in chapter 9.

I would also like that Lena could do some classical modeling jobs, maybe take some shoots for an advertising campaign. Currently it seems everybody how wants to take photoshoots with Lena is a pervert, okay Danny technically not but he is under the control of Seymour.

Maybe we get something out of the Stan re-work, even if I’m not very optimistic, but at least we should give it a try. Stan could be a solution for a bit more vanilla/classical modeling and they can help each other as friends (no f..k benefits).

 

[Echbert]

Lena as a protagonist = unrelatable

I have a super hard time relating to Lena as a protagonist.
I have never been nor never will be a super-hot chick in a hyperbolically exaggerated sexually and financially oppressive world. Nor will I ever be so obsessed with big-dick, some Adonis looking asshole who betrayed me, or money that I have a hard time keeping my principles.

Nor would I have any interest in being a nude model or have any of the attitudes about nude modeling that Lena has.

Nor would I treat Louise like garbage.

Sure she is a protagonist and the game tries to put me "in her shoes," but goddamn do these shoes not fit.

Ian as a protagonist = relatable

Ian on the other hand - while I find it partially difficult to relate to his physical problems because he is so small- I can relate to his struggle to gain his ideal body via exercise and struggle as a young professional trying to pursue his dream of using his mind to survive instead of working some shit job for easy cash.

Also- him being a dude makes him more relatable to me in a myriad of ways baseline.

That's more of a you thing. It has nothing to do with the narrative putting us into the shoes of Ian over Lena. You just personally have more in common with Ian than Lena and therfore relate to him more.

The game literally starts with Ian's POV and not with Lena's POV. Additionally, most players of these games are male, which further makes us consider him the "Main Protoganist", and Lena the second protagonist.

It would be disingenuous to say the opposite. We "instrumentalize" Lena, going for the routes we go with her for selfish reasons (even if they are bad for Lena). At the same time, we naturally tend to make the best choices for Ian and try to make Lena be the best gf possible for him.

None of this is bad, it's actually good. But it does mean that the things that worked for GGGB may not work for ORS.



In GGGB you were always on Ashley's shoes and only Ashley's shoes. The perspective is exclusively hers. You naturally get immersed and you are free to make choices

I'll give a more concrete example:

I didn't give a fuck about Ashley's boyfriend, I cheated on him, fucked his Dad, fucked whoever I wanted with no remorse. On GGGB, I just wanted to have fun through Ashley's POV.

While playing ORS, while playing has Lena, I avoided all content that didn't involve Ian. Because I "wasn't Lena". I was Ian, just controlling what Lena was doing and I wanted her all for myself.

It's not that hard to understand, tbh. But not everyone gets immersed in stories, it's pretty rare.

Eva starting with one POV over the other doesn't show that person is the MC, she can't start with both, she had to choose one or the other, and went with whoever was best to start her story with(in this case i think Ian was also chosen because he helps establish how different this game is than GGGB better).

Dudes relating to Ian more, considering him the MC, and instrumentalizing Lena does not mean that the narrative was designed that way, that's a choice they made, the narrative has made no indication that our goal is to see Lena as a Waifu, instead it's given them both independant stories with their own personal goals, tied togethor by a "Red string of fate". imo it's disengenuous to say Ian or Lena is more of the MC than the other, the narrative is clearly structured for us to see them as deutorologist, were suppose to relate to them both, and see them as equally important to the overall narrative(it's like RE2, both Leon and Claire are the MCs, even if most of the fandom chose Leon first). I would say so far it's been pretty effective as enough ppl were complaining about Lena having so little "good" LI options that Eva opted to rewrite Stan(I know she rewrote Robert as well though i don't know if that was for the same reason).

 

[BloodyMares]

Another detail about Lena's change that I forgot to mention was the fact that she can become more comfortable merging her day job, and her side-hustle as a model. The fact that Lena can so excitedly suggest that she is willing to pose nude at the cafe to save it shows how she's changed, when in the first chapters she felt very stressed whenever Van Dykes learned that she was posing nude, and how casually Ed exploited that fact to disregard her privacy.

 

[monk_56]

Oh, look, Everyone's favorite Character Robert is going somewhere...

View attachment 1615241

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Okay- that Robert Meme was hilarious, but putting those 3 nude male character models side by side was straight up rude to our beautiful lil' baby-face boy-wonder Ian the Kid.

 

[Canto Forte]

This is the game, tho. Lena has to choose .. to be a sex tool to everyone,
while Ian cannot. Literally, should anyone make logical, not sneaky or jerk dialogue shoices,
Ian will not get with anybody, his cheating bartender manwhore will steal all his love interests,
while Lena will still just have the most heartwarming conversations with him and steal his coworker away.

You have here a fair point and I can flow your argument. On the other side it always depends on how you see Lena and what you as player think she desires. I don’t think that Lena is really so in need for a sexual adventure, especially in this early stage. It’s Ivy which pushes Lena in this direction, and for me it’s not so obvious that Lena is really “looking” for some quick sex.

Also, she is very careful with her approached towards Ian. Clearly this are two different stories and she don’t know Ian and this approached make sense. But on the other side fucking with a working colleague is also something that could lead to problems, especially if you have already a lot of issues.

I agree, she’s not really looking for a quick hookup at that point, and she hasn’t decided yet if she agrees with Ivy that she needs it… But then a possibility suddenly emerges, and she’s got to make a quick decision: Reject him because she’s not ready for it yet, and/or because he’s a bit creepy — or just go with the flow and have a decent fuck and take another step in moving on from Axel. But it’s true that their working relationship complicates it — and as far as I can remember Lena isn’t really considering that part, which she definitely could have.

I got a feeling Ivy was in it with Axel with some kind of deal to lure Lena to his studio and to show up late so he could have alone time with Lena. I felt it was a bs excuse that she came up with being late.

Yeah I think so too, I feel like she's selling Lena to her psycho ex in exchange for a good word with the wildcats.

Another detail about Lena's change that I forgot to mention was the fact that she can become more comfortable merging her day job, and her side-hustle as a model. The fact that Lena can so excitedly suggest that she is willing to pose nude at the cafe to save it shows how she's changed, when in the first chapters she felt very stressed whenever Van Dykes learned that she was posing nude, and how casually Ed exploited that fact to disregard her privacy.

On the other hand, every time Lena gets to pursue a coworker, he is already in her business,
while Ian has to grind like a work dog like, for ever, until any meaningful feelings can emerge
in his work place.

 

[Daken9]

May be late to the discussion, and may be the only one saying this, but i did find that most - if not all - of Lena's 'introspection' moments didn't exactly help in endearing her to me. They just go from mindboggingly boring (aka, CTRL mode) in her good route, to just straight non-sense in her bad ones.

And i use the word non-sense because the 'corruption' routes feel quite tacked on to me, almost needing the character to go against the characterization to satisfy the porn quota. Like, i can safely say all the flimsy writing (and ensuing underhanded hypocrisy) running rampant in any of her non-squeaky clean routes served only to make Lena more genuinely dislikeable than 'porn-game corrupt', possibly because of the tone of the game and - again - of how she's otherwise written.

 

[PervySageKem]

May be late to the discussion, and may be the only one saying this, but i did find that most - if not all - of Lena's 'introspection' moments didn't exactly help in endearing her to me. They just go from mindboggingly boring (aka, CTRL mode) in her good route, to just straight non-sense in her bad ones.

And i use the word non-sense because the 'corruption' routes feel quite tacked on to me, almost needing the character to go against the characterization to satisfy the porn quota. Like, i can safely say all the flimsy writing (and ensuing underhanded hypocrisy) running rampant in any of her non-squeaky clean routes served only to make Lena more genuinely dislikeable than 'porn-game corrupt', possibly because of the tone of the game and - again - of how she's otherwise written.

That's pretty much it.

Since the last time I commented there have been a lot of good posts. The majority seems to have some trouble relating with Lena. She's a great character if you follow a certain path for her and other paths really don't work out.

In a game with two MCs and a game that the whole premise is to force them to collide with each other, it's just natural to feel the drive to create a story in which they will both be the happiest.

It's called Our Red String - the characters are connected irrevocably, which I consider a mistake. If we could just ignore Lena, all alternative paths would be very comfortable to follow. But since we can't ignore her and since it's very probable that, while playing Ian, we'll be attracted to her... 80% of the content gets blocked.

The game is very well made, the art is good, the dialogue is okay, but it's just an uncomfortable experience (the alpha predator Jeremy being constantly trying to fuck every girl around us is also cringe as fuck).

 

[TheUnforeseenMessenger]

The game literally starts with Ian's POV and not with Lena's POV. Additionally, most players of these games are male, which further makes us consider him the "Main Protoganist", and Lena the second protagonist.

It would be disingenuous to say the opposite. We "instrumentalize" Lena, going for the routes we go with her for selfish reasons (even if they are bad for Lena). At the same time, we naturally tend to make the best choices for Ian and try to make Lena be the best gf possible for him.

None of this is bad, it's actually good. But it does mean that the things that worked for GGGB may not work for ORS.



In GGGB you were always on Ashley's shoes and only Ashley's shoes. The perspective is exclusively hers. You naturally get immersed and you are free to make choices

I'll give a more concrete example:

I didn't give a fuck about Ashley's boyfriend, I cheated on him, fucked his Dad, fucked whoever I wanted with no remorse. On GGGB, I just wanted to have fun through Ashley's POV.

While playing ORS, while playing has Lena, I avoided all content that didn't involve Ian. Because I "wasn't Lena". I was Ian, just controlling what Lena was doing and I wanted her all for myself.

It's not that hard to understand, tbh. But not everyone gets immersed in stories, it's pretty rare.

I agree. And since the way the game is written puts us in the shoes of Ian, most of the Lena content is just really painful to watch. The fact that she needs to be with other people (robert, mike or louise) for there to be a possibility for an open relationship/polyamory relationship kinda sucks (since those three pairings in particular really don't fit the personality of a girl that would date Ian. If she were the type to date Ian, she wouldnt date those three.).

I think Eva should've made Lena and Ian not cross paths at all for most of the game and then create a possibility to come together in the future. Since they meet in the beginning, only cucks will play out the Lena paths. GGGB didn't have this problem since the players never gave a fuck about the idiot BF, we were living things out through Ashley's perspective. In ORS, we live moslty through Ian and we want our OTP to be faithful.

With comments like these, it's loud and clear about your 'moral' values.

ORS made it VERY CLEAR that you would get to play two characters. To ignore this entirely would be "disingenuous". (I'm glad you know the word because your point is, imo, disingenous).

Your point was that because we started with Ian, we shouldn't get to play another character, especially one that connects with Ian How silly is this, really?

Moreover, you specifically said "only cucks" will play out the Lena paths, which ignores the fact that some people just want to see sex scenes, regardless if they are cucks or not. Some people don't connect Lena with Ian at all, so how is it that they are "cucks"?

You don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[TheUnforeseenMessenger]

That's pretty much it.

Since the last time I commented there have been a lot of good posts. The majority seems to have some trouble relating with Lena. She's a great character if you follow a certain path for her and other paths really don't work out.

In a game with two MCs and a game that the whole premise is to force them to collide with each other, it's just natural to feel the drive to create a story in which they will both be the happiest.

It's called Our Red String - the characters are connected irrevocably, which I consider a mistake. If we could just ignore Lena, all alternative paths would be very comfortable to follow. But since we can't ignore her and since it's very probable that, while playing Ian, we'll be attracted to her... 80% of the content gets blocked.

The game is very well made, the art is good, the dialogue is okay, but it's just an uncomfortable experience (the alpha predator Jeremy being constantly trying to fuck every girl around us is also cringe as fuck).

So what's the point in the concept at all, and how does this make the game "very well made", since you think the idea is broken?

I remember in an earlier post that you only like to go through one playthrough before moving on to another. That's a YOU problem, not anyone else.

The whole point of GGGB and this one is to see the consequences of one's actions. If you don't like it, then don't bother being a 'cuck'. You have control of the two characters, and now you're complaining that you can't see the rest of the content. Just endless complaining.

 

[TheUnforeseenMessenger]

May be late to the discussion, and may be the only one saying this, but i did find that most - if not all - of Lena's 'introspection' moments didn't exactly help in endearing her to me. They just go from mindboggingly boring (aka, CTRL mode) in her good route, to just straight non-sense in her bad ones.

And i use the word non-sense because the 'corruption' routes feel quite tacked on to me, almost needing the character to go against the characterization to satisfy the porn quota. Like, i can safely say all the flimsy writing (and ensuing underhanded hypocrisy) running rampant in any of her non-squeaky clean routes served only to make Lena more genuinely dislikeable than 'porn-game corrupt', possibly because of the tone of the game and - again - of how she's otherwise written.

So how does one decide to do 'bad' things then? Is temptation not a thing in your book? If some hot dude gives you attention, and you think you like him, would you do something with him? Seems to be pretty simple that a choice can be made by people on a whim. Does there need to be an elaborate explanation for why a chick decides to do a one night stand?

Come on.

 

[Daken9]

So how does one decide to do 'bad' things then? Is temptation not a thing in your book? If some hot dude gives you attention, and you think you like him, would you do something with him? Seems to be pretty simple that a choice can be made by people on a whim. Does there need to be an elaborate explanation for why a chick decides to do a one night stand?

Come on.

Sure, but Lena's simply too enstablished as a character for me not to call that bad writing. Just look at Ian, comparatively he's way more of a blank-slate and therefore very few - if none - of his routes feel like an out-of-character experience. Point-in-case, Ashley was just the same, and i dary say that's one of the reasons most seem to like her better than Lena (granted, i'd wager it's also to do with GGGB's side-characters trumping everyone from Lena's route in every way possible).

 

[ekroniuk]

I don't think Lena/Axel was badly written, in fact I think that it is very good written "corruption" route, maybe even best I've seen. Firstly he tries desperately to get her back, but she doesn't want anything to do with him. So he gets smart and "accidentally" slips polaroid to her hand. She let's the temptation get's better of her and reminiscence about her submission to him. Later during the photoshoot he has an opportunity to gets more "physical" and he's doing it, but he keeps control of himself and even pretend to be calm and collected after it.

Then he makes the deal with Ivy and she pushes Lena into his clutches. Finally he got her, but even after the act he assures Lena that it was only one time for old time sake. He gradually conquers her back. I think it's hot and in character for sub Lena who likes to fantasize about being a sex slave.

I think it is more interesting than any corruption route from GGGB. Besides their sex scene is the hottest in the game.

 

[bauman]

I wonder if ORS would've been a better game if Lena and Ivy swapped personalities with a reverse corruption path for the female protagonist. The player gets the choice to stay with Lena's default promiscuous state or change her gradually. That way, the dev can easily fit more slutty scenes in the story early on and have a well-defined romance path with the male protagonist at the same time without compromising the narrative.

Currently, I don't enjoy Lena's corruption that much. It feels to me like she's experiencing cognitive dissonance quite often. Also, most of her potential sexual partners outside Ian are just losers, which isn't the case on Ian's path. The narrative even drops some clues that Lena should abstain from casual sex with other men: her cat hissing, Robert pressuring her to a first date, Mike's girlfriend, Jeremy fucking around, etc.

In GGGB, the corruption path and all the wicked shit Ashley subjected herself felt right given the circumstances, even though some of them were hilarious and very out there. Maybe the more lighthearted tone of that game had something to do with it.

 

[PervySageKem]

I'm telling you, i'm way more interested in a hypothetical Ian/Ivy path than i am in anything Ian/Lena related. Like, come on, regular dude and party girl, shit writes itself.

Ivy is pretty hot, it's a shame she doesn't even look at Ian. Maybe if we kick Jeremy's ass in the MMA tournament she'll rethink her choices xD

 

[bauman]

Ivy is pretty hot, it's a shame she doesn't even look at Ian. Maybe if we kick Jeremy's ass in the MMA tournament she'll rethink her choices xD

Ian can flirt with Ivy if he's chad enough. She even kisses him on the cheek at the bar if he tells Axel to his face that he's banging his ex-girlfriend.

 

[PervySageKem]

Ian can flirt with Ivy if he's chad enough. She even kisses him on the cheek at the bar if he tells Axel to his face that he's banging his ex-girlfriend.

I know, but right now (as of chapter 9) that is the only interaction he has with her.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really like Ivy's personality that much. I just think her art is really good and the possible angle of "taming the wild girl" might be hot.

 

[DavDR]

That's pretty much it.

Since the last time I commented there have been a lot of good posts. The majority seems to have some trouble relating with Lena. She's a great character if you follow a certain path for her and other paths really don't work out.

In a game with two MCs and a game that the whole premise is to force them to collide with each other, it's just natural to feel the drive to create a story in which they will both be the happiest.

It's called Our Red String - the characters are connected irrevocably, which I consider a mistake. If we could just ignore Lena, all alternative paths would be very comfortable to follow. But since we can't ignore her and since it's very probable that, while playing Ian, we'll be attracted to her... 80% of the content gets blocked.

The game is very well made, the art is good, the dialogue is okay, but it's just an uncomfortable experience (the alpha predator Jeremy being constantly trying to fuck every girl around us is also cringe as fuck).

In my playthru I enjoy making Ian the cuck.

 

[Baka!]

There are so many things that this game has that I don't want to appear in future games from Eva Kiss... I don't want more dual protagonists, I really think it's something that delays the plot a lot, What happens if Eva suddenly realizes that the story and conclusion of one of its protagonists is longer to conclude than the other? adjustments will have to be made and therefore delays and rewriting, not to mention that it is likely that one protagonist will suffer worse development than the other, I do not want so many stats, GGGB was already a game that had some errors in each update, but those errors have increased in this game to the point that you are almost forced to start your game from the beginning on every update.
I predict that this game will take a long time to be finished due to Eva calculation errors and revamps